Originally posted by DrowNoble

Funcom didn't do anything wrong, immoral, shady or whatever.

FEES are NOT refundable.  Period.  You clicked "I Agree" to that when you log in to the game.  Not sure why you think you are entitled to a refund regardless.  It's not like you can accidently click a button and sub for a year by mistake.  You had to login to the master account, you had to click on subscriptions, you had to check which one you wanted, etc.

They are doing a promotion now for veteran rewards.  If you pay for X months you'll get some ingame rewards.  You now have these rewards, so quit complaining about it cost you $35.  You KNEW that when you subscribed.

They tried to collect a fee for a good or service they didn't deliver and could not possibly deliver because the customer was already in an existing subscription billing cycle. You can't legally refuse to refund money for goods or services you have not delivered if you stand to lose no value which you would not have held if you had not made the sale in the first place.

It is too bad they could not find an amicable resolution for both their customer and their company. Nothing like good and honest impartial and real exprience, to spread via word of month rather than this type of thing which we have come to expect from Funcom right?

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

(())

In this case I honestly feel that the wording in "extend" was clearly written and the onus is on the customer to understand what any deals are and encompass.

 

There were two main points from the discussion that took place in this thread (which you probably did not read because it is long but np I will conclude it for you) are

- that since the customer was purchasing an extension to a subscription which has yet to take effect since he still has 1 month game time before that subscribtion starts, there is a VERY strong case for him to get his money back. (in many cases the cooling off period does not require a valid reason for canceling, there is NO ONUS ON THE CUSTOMER AT ALL)

- that in the worst case scenario, even if Funcom were not legally obliged to refund the money, common sense, good business practice and reasonable customer oriented policy (which is crucial in a MMORPG since customers NEED to come back) should have pushed those fools to refund the money.

 

No need to assume, I did read the whole thing which is why I replied. Sorry there is no case. If you buy a season ticket to a football game but never go you do not get a refund. If you pay for 1 yr gym membership there is no refund. If you pay for 12 driving lessons in a package upfront and don't take them there is no refund. If you subscribe on contract to TV and take TV package that is PPV there is no refund. If you hire a car for 1 week and it is a set price but you do not drive it anywhere there is no refund.

FC are well within their right to not refund. The writing was clear, the deal clear, it is a payment now and not at end of current cycle subscripton, We paid for a life time sub for father in law for LOTRO before the offer ended and it was a pay upfront offer. He still had 4 months left that he already paid for - didnt get that back.

Hello again!  Sorry I took so long to reply to your message, I was actually banned for 3 days (no idea why, but meh... )

Anyway, to answer your post, I guess maybe you did read it, but are not computing what was written, so I will simply write again what was written numerous times in other words so that you will perhaps understand it. With this objective in mind, I will take your examples :

- If you buy a season ticket to a football game and the season starts in 3 months YOU CAN get refunded within the cooling off period, especially if you buy the season ticket on the phone or through the internet.

- If you pay for 1 year gym membership that starts in 3 months YOU CAN get refunded within the coolind off period especially if you buy it on the phone or through the internet.

- If you pay for 12 driving lessons in a package upfront and don't take them YOU CAN get refunded during the cooling off period, again, this is even more the case if you do the transaction over the phone or through the internet.

- If you subscribe on contract to TV and take TV package that is PPV, I have no idea about this one as it is unclear to me what your saying...

- Now lastly, for my favourite one BECAUSE I HAVE ACTUALLY DONE THIS MYSELF, the hire a car situation ; if you hire a car and decide to change your mind before the set date, YOU CAN get your money back (I have done this myself). 

Now with the hire a car example, you're actually saying "if you hire it but don't drive it", then in that case, you can not get your money back because it's not dependent on whether you drive it or not. If the period has actually started, it is more difficult, but most companies "who have good business practice" will give you a partial refund.

Please allow me to put forward two very important points that need to be clear :

1. The law that was put into place in 2000 and that is valid in all EU was particularly aimed at transactions that take place over the phone or across the internet. Please go ahead and read it if you find it interesting. There is a seperate law that covers normal transactions.

2. And let me say this again in the worst case scenario, even if Funcom do not have a legal imperative to pay that money back (which they do btw), it is bad business practice, unethical, and illustrative of a desperate situation not to do so.

Also, with respect to your last paragraph, just because you put it in writing doesn't always cover you, that would be to easy. The laws that are there to protect teh consumer disregard anything that was writen in the contract or to the customer.

And lastly, just becaues LOTRO did the same does not mean they had a legal right to do so.

edit -->  to the OP I just thought of something. As part of my civil inssurance, one of the services that is provided is legal protection. This service allows me to go to court and claim on anything free of charge while only paying if the claim is successful. Also, they take care of everything, including lawyers etc, you might have that as well, most people don't know about it :p

I thought i would have a quick nose see what i could find out as this thread seems to be bouncing from one side to the other each with strong arguments

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792577

In the case of services, the cooling-off period normally ends seven working days after the day the order was made - or after written confirmation is received.

Now i didnt see the date in which you extended the subscription and the same as when you notified them of not wanting the services.

The only thing I did try looking into and could not find anything out is Distance selling regulations regarding renewal of services. You in a way renewed your service prior to it ending and me personally would see that as not being covered by the distance selling regulations due to you already have a running service with funcom.

The other thing is that its worded as an extension now that might mean that your cooling off period could be when you took your first 3 month sub which has already passed the 7 days of purchase.

Im not saying this is fact as with all legal things it can vary depending on the situation

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf 

also that has some good reading on the general situation but does not go into great depth.

Im not saying what funcom have done is right and some would say it would be best practice to refund your money however its very grey on where they stand on it.

Originally posted by Hosler

I thought i would have a quick nose see what i could find out as this thread seems to be bouncing from one side to the other each with strong arguments

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1073792577

In the case of services, the cooling-off period normally ends seven working days after the day the order was made - or after written confirmation is received.

Now i didnt see the date in which you extended the subscription and the same as when you notified them of not wanting the services.

The only thing I did try looking into and could not find anything out is Distance selling regulations regarding renewal of services. You in a way renewed your service prior to it ending and me personally would see that as not being covered by the distance selling regulations due to you already have a running service with funcom.

The other thing is that its worded as an extension now that might mean that your cooling off period could be when you took your first 3 month sub which has already passed the 7 days of purchase.

Im not saying this is fact as with all legal things it can vary depending on the situation

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf 

also that has some good reading on the general situation but does not go into great depth.

Im not saying what funcom have done is right and some would say it would be best practice to refund your money however its very grey on where they stand on it.

 

It really is an interesting case.

Please allow me one comment on what you wrote (I believe your other points have been covered already) :

It would apply if the purchase is done over the internet even it is a subscription for a game that was bought over the counter because that is precisely why the "broken seal" argument does not apply --> the focus of the claim is on the subscription part of the contract, so even if you cant get a refund for a software that has been opened (broken seal), you can for a subscription.

Again, this is personal opinion, I am in no way a legal expert :)

All good and fine but at the end of the day... VISA put through the reversal, money is back in my account as of yesterday and that number is cancelled so Funcom can't bill me regardless of how they feel about it.

Originally posted by Solude

All good and fine but at the end of the day... VISA put through the reversal, money is back in my account as of yesterday and that number is cancelled so Funcom can't bill me regardless of how they feel about it.

I didnt want to give them a card, so I changed the billing option to cash and got my 14 days that way.    After all the billing junk that used to happen I will not trust them not to bill me later.

I have had a similar situation in the past. I clicked on a resub by mistake and promptly called the MMO company(it wasnt FC) and was told I wouldnt be able to have a refund. However, since the resub hadnt went into effect yet, and since I hadnt benefitted from any goods or services from the future transaction, Visa fully refunded my money.
I dont know about what is right by law or what is wrong by law, only that when I have a problem with credit charges, Visa always comes through for me.

THAT, my friends, is good customer service.

Funcom may want to pay attention to Visa's customer relations, because if they did, they would still have the OP as a happy customer instead of a lost customer who will not recommend the game to people who asks about it.

maybe if Visa does that (and I am not being sarcastic here) it is because it is legal for them to do so.

And if it is legal for them to do so, it emplies that the transaction can legally be cancelled, and if that is the case, the company is in the wrong for refusing to.

Honestly, I am not sure at all about these two sentences ad I can myself see one or to potential issues, but it kind of makes sense :o

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by DrowNoble

First off, subscription fees are non-refundable.  They always have been.  They (probably) always will be.  Says clearly in the TOS you clicked "I Agree" to login that the fees are not refundable.  So trying to get your fee back was pointless.

Second, when I took advantage of the new subscription plan it didn't bill me til my current cycle ended.    I did the the helm right away, though the extra vet tokens didn't show up til my cycle began again.

 

Wrong, If and only if you are into the subscription. In this case the new sub doesn't begin until 2010. Non-refundable applies to already inside subscription period billings. Funcom is of course trying to hold onto every $ they can and they have no shame or good reputation to hang onto. Thankfully they don't do more in the world than make poorly implemented games that have good graphics, i.e. like handel real money transactions like Visa. Visa did the right thing for the consumer in this instance which is exactly what ethically an impartial party would have decided, and what legally a court case would have entitled the consumer too as well.

Sorry LordBonezy, but YOU are wrong.
 

The OP was complaining that he was charged, since he was charged he IS in the new subscription cycle.  Therefore, He is Not Entitled To A Refund.  Period.  He already received the product, vet rewards in this case, so cannot get a refund.  No If's And's or But's about it.   You can try to spin this however you want, that doesn't change the simple fact that he didn't "accidently" subscribe (I already posted that's not possible), he already is in his new cycle and he already received his product (game time and vet tokens).

Your irrational Funcom Hate does nothing to validate or support your erroneous arguments. 

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by DrowNoble

First off, subscription fees are non-refundable.  They always have been.  They (probably) always will be.  Says clearly in the TOS you clicked "I Agree" to login that the fees are not refundable.  So trying to get your fee back was pointless.

Second, when I took advantage of the new subscription plan it didn't bill me til my current cycle ended.    I did the the helm right away, though the extra vet tokens didn't show up til my cycle began again.

 

Wrong, If and only if you are into the subscription. In this case the new sub doesn't begin until 2010. Non-refundable applies to already inside subscription period billings. Funcom is of course trying to hold onto every $ they can and they have no shame or good reputation to hang onto. Thankfully they don't do more in the world than make poorly implemented games that have good graphics, i.e. like handel real money transactions like Visa. Visa did the right thing for the consumer in this instance which is exactly what ethically an impartial party would have decided, and what legally a court case would have entitled the consumer too as well.

Sorry LordBonezy, but YOU are wrong.
 

The OP was complaining that he was charged, since he was charged he IS in the new subscription cycle.  Therefore, He is Not Entitled To A Refund.  Period.  He already received the product, vet rewards in this case, so cannot get a refund.  No If's And's or But's about it.   You can try to spin this however you want, that doesn't change the simple fact that he didn't "accidently" subscribe (I already posted that's not possible), he already is in his new cycle and he already received his product (game time and vet tokens).

Your irrational Funcom Hate does nothing to validate or support your erroneous arguments. 

Well perhaps I am wrong. However that doesn't change the fact that Visa saw it our way. Probably very likely because we were right and not wrong. Its not about being right or wrong or hating funcom though I do, and it isn't irrational whatsoever. I dont have AOC, but I do hate Funcom and am happy to see them deprived of money they would take freely and not refund without delivering a good or service.

I'm not spinning shit. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or deliberate attempt to extend his subscription and then retract that extension, a reasonable amount of time before it began. If you don't consume a good or service you have the right to a refund if it has not been delivered forthwith.

You are being irrational because you can't live with not liking Funcom oh no oh dear how will I ever go on living? Grow up Visa kept a customer by doing the right thing, Funcom lost a customer by doing the wrong thing. If you think they have it wrong thats your opinion and you are entitled just like me. Its also bizniz law that you can't take money from consumers even by mistake if you don't provide something for it, its called consideration.

If there is no consideration there is no contract. If I put money on the table and promise to pay for something but have not received it because it is scheduled to be delivered at a future date, I am entitled to the refund of my consideration. The only reason I would not be is if because of my promise to purchase and subsequent cancelling I some how prevented Funcom from making money with someone else with that same good or service, in which they lose the value of their consideration, at which point they are entitled to compensation for the loss of value of their part of the "consideration". Since there was no resulting loss in value to Funcom's consideration, and there was no consumption of the product or service during that subscription period for the customer, legally there was no contract to take money for services or goods, and Funcom was legally obligated to refund the money. Visa knows this because they process millions of transactions daily, Funcom hasn't processed more than few tens of thousands and they clearly have no interest in maintaining a reputation or valuing customers the same way Visa does.

[MOD EDIT]

Originally posted by LordBonezy2

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Originally posted by LordBonezy

Originally posted by DrowNoble

First off, subscription fees are non-refundable.  They always have been.  They (probably) always will be.  Says clearly in the TOS you clicked "I Agree" to login that the fees are not refundable.  So trying to get your fee back was pointless.

Second, when I took advantage of the new subscription plan it didn't bill me til my current cycle ended.    I did the the helm right away, though the extra vet tokens didn't show up til my cycle began again.

 

Wrong, If and only if you are into the subscription. In this case the new sub doesn't begin until 2010. Non-refundable applies to already inside subscription period billings. Funcom is of course trying to hold onto every $ they can and they have no shame or good reputation to hang onto. Thankfully they don't do more in the world than make poorly implemented games that have good graphics, i.e. like handel real money transactions like Visa. Visa did the right thing for the consumer in this instance which is exactly what ethically an impartial party would have decided, and what legally a court case would have entitled the consumer too as well.

Sorry LordBonezy, but YOU are wrong.
 

The OP was complaining that he was charged, since he was charged he IS in the new subscription cycle.  Therefore, He is Not Entitled To A Refund.  Period.  He already received the product, vet rewards in this case, so cannot get a refund.  No If's And's or But's about it.   You can try to spin this however you want, that doesn't change the simple fact that he didn't "accidently" subscribe (I already posted that's not possible), he already is in his new cycle and he already received his product (game time and vet tokens).

Your irrational Funcom Hate does nothing to validate or support your erroneous arguments. 

Well perhaps I am wrong. However that doesn't change the fact that Visa saw it our way. Probably very likely because we were right and not wrong. Its not about being right or wrong or hating funcom though I do, and it isn't irrational whatsoever. I dont have AOC, but I do hate Funcom and am happy to see them deprived of money they would take freely and not refund without delivering a good or service.

I'm not spinning shit. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or deliberate attempt to extend his subscription and then retract that extension, a reasonable amount of time before it began. If you don't consume a good or service you have the right to a refund if it has not been delivered forthwith.

You are being irrational because you can't live with not liking Funcom oh no oh dear how will I ever go on living? Grow up Visa kept a customer by doing the right thing, Funcom lost a customer by doing the wrong thing. If you think they have it wrong thats your opinion and you are entitled just like me. Its also bizniz law that you can't take money from consumers even by mistake if you don't provide something for it, its called consideration.

If there is no consideration there is no contract. If I put money on the table and promise to pay for something but have not received it because it is scheduled to be delivered at a future date, I am entitled to the refund of my consideration. The only reason I would not be is if because of my promise to purchase and subsequent cancelling I some how prevented Funcom from making money with someone else with that same good or service, in which they lose the value of their consideration, at which point they are entitled to compensation for the loss of value of their part of the "consideration". Since there was no resulting loss in value to Funcom's consideration, and there was no consumption of the product or service during that subscription period for the customer, legally there was no contract to take money for services or goods, and Funcom was legally obligated to refund the money. Visa knows this because they process millions of transactions daily, Funcom hasn't processed more than few tens of thousands and they clearly have no interest in maintaining a reputation or valuing customers the same way Visa does.

Case closed. Don't like my response fuck off.

If you don't have AOC then STOP POSTING ON THE AOC FORUMS!

Pretty much Lordbonezy's credibility went out the window once he admitted he's never played AoC, hates Funcom and just generally wants them to fail.

This would be like me posting on the EQ1 forums about how much Everquest sucks, SOE sucks, or whatever, even though I haven't played it in over 5 years.  Don't think any EQ players would take me seriously either.

Anyhoo, the OP isn't entitled to a refund.  Very doubtful Visa would refund the money either.  When you dispute a charge, they do an investigation which includes contacting the party that charged you in the first place.  When Funcom tells Visa that the subscription fee was charged and is non-refundable, provides the documentation the OP clicked "I  Agree" to to prove that, Visa will deny the claim.  

Some people just hate Funcom.  Just like some hate SOE or Blizzard.  Doesn't matter what that company does or doesn't do, they will refuse to play their games and post everywhere their irrational corporate hate speech where ever they can.

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Pretty much Lordbonezy's credibility went out the window once he admitted he's never played AoC, hates Funcom and just generally wants them to fail.

This would be like me posting on the EQ1 forums about how much Everquest sucks, SOE sucks, or whatever, even though I haven't played it in over 5 years.  Don't think any EQ players would take me seriously either.

Anyhoo, the OP isn't entitled to a refund.  Very doubtful Visa would refund the money either.  When you dispute a charge, they do an investigation which includes contacting the party that charged you in the first place.  When Funcom tells Visa that the subscription fee was charged and is non-refundable, provides the documentation the OP clicked "I  Agree" to to prove that, Visa will deny the claim.  

Some people just hate Funcom.  Just like some hate SOE or Blizzard.  Doesn't matter what that company does or doesn't do, they will refuse to play their games and post everywhere their irrational corporate hate speech where ever they can.

I never said I didn't play AOC. I played from Launch until October 2008. I left, but played with a friends acct here and there to see sieges since the game died on my server before we got to sieges. In 2009 I came back during the initial free trials and played from a week before them until a week or two after. So yeah I played and I never said I didn't. What I did not play is WOW, said that on more than one occassion. I don't play AOC currently because of the enumerated reasons I've detailed. So you can shut the hell up about my credibility. I know this game well and I know this company too well, apparently you don't so stay silent grasshopper.

OP already got his refund. We already explained why. Its too complex for you just let it go, you need to have at least an 8th grade understand of the law clearly you don't.

It absolutely does matter what a company does, and Funcom is no exception and they are not an exception that prooves a rule. If you enjoy the game great. Its a better game than it was. The company is a dying company which has seen the best employees jump ship in favor of better opporunities, which is why the pace of improvement is so slow and incompetent and why they are forcing layoffs, being not profitable means you cant pay people to stay. Had Funcom delivered a polished and finished and functional product none of us would be talking about any of this. They didn't, its not my fault and it is a fact.

Get over it.

Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by LordBonezy2

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Sorry LordBonezy, but YOU are wrong.
 

The OP was complaining that he was charged, since he was charged he IS in the new subscription cycle.  Therefore, He is Not Entitled To A Refund.  Period.  He already received the product, vet rewards in this case, so cannot get a refund.  No If's And's or But's about it.   You can try to spin this however you want, that doesn't change the simple fact that he didn't "accidently" subscribe (I already posted that's not possible), he already is in his new cycle and he already received his product (game time and vet tokens).

Your irrational Funcom Hate does nothing to validate or support your erroneous arguments. 

Well perhaps I am wrong. However that doesn't change the fact that Visa saw it our way. Probably very likely because we were right and not wrong. Its not about being right or wrong or hating funcom though I do, and it isn't irrational whatsoever. I dont have AOC, but I do hate Funcom and am happy to see them deprived of money they would take freely and not refund without delivering a good or service.

I'm not spinning shit. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or deliberate attempt to extend his subscription and then retract that extension, a reasonable amount of time before it began. If you don't consume a good or service you have the right to a refund if it has not been delivered forthwith.

You are being irrational because you can't live with not liking Funcom oh no oh dear how will I ever go on living? Grow up Visa kept a customer by doing the right thing, Funcom lost a customer by doing the wrong thing. If you think they have it wrong thats your opinion and you are entitled just like me. Its also bizniz law that you can't take money from consumers even by mistake if you don't provide something for it, its called consideration.

If there is no consideration there is no contract. If I put money on the table and promise to pay for something but have not received it because it is scheduled to be delivered at a future date, I am entitled to the refund of my consideration. The only reason I would not be is if because of my promise to purchase and subsequent cancelling I some how prevented Funcom from making money with someone else with that same good or service, in which they lose the value of their consideration, at which point they are entitled to compensation for the loss of value of their part of the "consideration". Since there was no resulting loss in value to Funcom's consideration, and there was no consumption of the product or service during that subscription period for the customer, legally there was no contract to take money for services or goods, and Funcom was legally obligated to refund the money. Visa knows this because they process millions of transactions daily, Funcom hasn't processed more than few tens of thousands and they clearly have no interest in maintaining a reputation or valuing customers the same way Visa does.

Case closed. Don't like my response fuck off.

 

 

If you don't have AOC then STOP POSTING ON THE AOC FORUMS!

All in red still stands. If you have an issue with Funcom fine but the rest of us don't care. Move on with your life. No one cares about your opinion, that’s why you get some much hate all the time. Everyone is tired of your trolling. Get over yourself already and grow up.

Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by LordBonezy2

Originally posted by DrowNoble

 

If you don't have AOC then STOP POSTING ON THE AOC FORUMS!

All in red still stands. If you have an issue with Funcom fine but the rest of us don't care. Move on with your life. No one cares about your opinion, that’s why you get some much hate all the time. Everyone is tired of your trolling. Get over yourself already and grow up.

Signed!

Originally posted by rafaelrehn

 OP is a retard

Exactly my thoughts :D He wants to make a ball out of shit here...
 

Pfft, if you're an existing subscriber, you've already been cheated.

Don't ya just love contradictions?

First Lordbonezy says he doesn't have AoC then he says he actually did and played up til this year.  Uh, well which is it?  Still admits to hating Funcom apparently, but I guess doesn't hate them enough as he played AoC off and on up til this year.

Whether or not the OP got a refund isn't the point.  I said he wasn't entitled to a refund.  If he goes to his Credit Company and they decide he's been a long time customer who warrants special treament, that's their call.   Funcom, however, wouldn't have to refund his money as he isn't entitled to a refund.  Why he isn't has been stated numerous times, hopefully Lordbonezy doesn't have too much problems with the complex words used here and can re-read it if his memory fails him.

Finally, the Funcom hate he has comes out again as in true Bill O Fashion, spouts "facts" that have no basis in facts.  According to him Funcom is a dying company whose best employees have jumped ship.  So, umm, the "dying" company opens up a new center in Montreal, hiring dozens of new employees in the process to work on their next MMO, yet it's "dying".   Oh wait, must mean that if they work on another MMO that AoC is dying?  No wait, that doesn't work other companies have multiple MMO's going simultaneously.  Hmm..    Nope can't find any validity to the Funcom Is Dying statement at all.

Strange that he mentioned WoW.  AoC had a very stable launch, no server queues, no crashes, etc.  WoW can't say the same as it had numerous problems intially that weren't resolved for weeks afterwords.  Stuck while looting bug?  Login Queues?  Disabling equipment rendering to reduce login server load?   Yep WoW had all those, AoC didn't.   Hmm, but AoC wasn't "finished or polished" still?    Riiiiight.

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Strange that he mentioned WoW.  AoC had a very stable launch, no server queues, no crashes, etc.  WoW can't say the same as it had numerous problems intially that weren't resolved for weeks afterwords.  Stuck while looting bug?  Login Queues?  Disabling equipment rendering to reduce login server load?   Yep WoW had all those, AoC didn't.   Hmm, but AoC wasn't "finished or polished" still?    Riiiiight.

What are you smoking?

Or are you trying to change the history?

 I don't support posting to the forums of the games you don't play, but sometimes I do slip. Sorry for that.

AoC (in my experience from welcome back campaign 14-days) is very stable game today. Technically it works great and looks the same as normal MMOs do (I personally have never found it graphically superior, but maybe it's just because I've played their Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. It's a great story, btw.), bar the character movement that is not looking natural.

But the fact that it works today doesn't entitle anyone to try and write the history again. AoC launch was a disaster, only ones that might compete with it for the title "Worst launch in the history of MMORPGs" are AO and Darkfall.

Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by LordBonezy2

Originally posted by DrowNoble

Sorry LordBonezy, but YOU are wrong.
 

The OP was complaining that he was charged, since he was charged he IS in the new subscription cycle.  Therefore, He is Not Entitled To A Refund.  Period.  He already received the product, vet rewards in this case, so cannot get a refund.  No If's And's or But's about it.   You can try to spin this however you want, that doesn't change the simple fact that he didn't "accidently" subscribe (I already posted that's not possible), he already is in his new cycle and he already received his product (game time and vet tokens).

Your irrational Funcom Hate does nothing to validate or support your erroneous arguments. 

Well perhaps I am wrong. However that doesn't change the fact that Visa saw it our way. Probably very likely because we were right and not wrong. Its not about being right or wrong or hating funcom though I do, and it isn't irrational whatsoever. I dont have AOC, but I do hate Funcom and am happy to see them deprived of money they would take freely and not refund without delivering a good or service.

I'm not spinning shit. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or deliberate attempt to extend his subscription and then retract that extension, a reasonable amount of time before it began. If you don't consume a good or service you have the right to a refund if it has not been delivered forthwith.

You are being irrational because you can't live with not liking Funcom oh no oh dear how will I ever go on living? Grow up Visa kept a customer by doing the right thing, Funcom lost a customer by doing the wrong thing. If you think they have it wrong thats your opinion and you are entitled just like me. Its also bizniz law that you can't take money from consumers even by mistake if you don't provide something for it, its called consideration.

If there is no consideration there is no contract. If I put money on the table and promise to pay for something but have not received it because it is scheduled to be delivered at a future date, I am entitled to the refund of my consideration. The only reason I would not be is if because of my promise to purchase and subsequent cancelling I some how prevented Funcom from making money with someone else with that same good or service, in which they lose the value of their consideration, at which point they are entitled to compensation for the loss of value of their part of the "consideration". Since there was no resulting loss in value to Funcom's consideration, and there was no consumption of the product or service during that subscription period for the customer, legally there was no contract to take money for services or goods, and Funcom was legally obligated to refund the money. Visa knows this because they process millions of transactions daily, Funcom hasn't processed more than few tens of thousands and they clearly have no interest in maintaining a reputation or valuing customers the same way Visa does.

Case closed. Don't like my response fuck off.

 

 

If you don't have AOC then STOP POSTING ON THE AOC FORUMS!

All in red still stands. If you have an issue with Funcom fine but the rest of us don't care. Move on with your life. No one cares about your opinion, that’s why you get some much hate all the time. Everyone is tired of your trolling. Get over yourself already and grow up.

I see what you are saying thats a typo. Instead of me saying I don't have AOC it should say I don't hate AOC. It is true that I do not currently subscribe to AOC however I did in most of 2008 when it was available and for a full month in 2009. I also play on a friends acct from time to time, however my computer no longer has it installed. I am fully aware of the progress of development from launch until today. I apologize for your confusion as I caused it. If you want to research my post history you are welcomed to, on the official forums my handel was CobraSolidus, on these forums here at MMORPG there is another who took that name before I got here and now I post with the handle I had in game LB, and LB2 when they see fit to ban me for not censoring myself.