Originally posted by DragonShark

3. STO will be like this, because they haven't had time to do anything else with it. They had to take the existing engine and immediately begin plugging in content. Oh, sure, they added in the space combat component, but it's not very in-depth. You go around in circles trying to spread the damage amongst all your shields, all the while holding down the spacebar to blast the target with phasers constantly, and occasionally fire a torpedo off when your circle eventually points your nose at the enemy. Did you even watch the videos?

This was one of the more glaring things to me too in the combat videos.  It was somewhat amazing how static moving combat can be.  Probably because there is very little reason to move around (you end up wasting shots tearing down fresh shields).  One thing I remember from the shows is how they tended to have more power put onto part of the shields (such as the forward deflector).  This makes an incentive for the enemy to try to attack the weaker shield and theoretically would keep combat moving.  There are potentially other things they could have done too, but with the system as it is, the videos seem to show relative positions staying pretty much the same.
 

Perhaps it is a pleasant surprise.

Played CoH, ... instanced and the usual mmorpg suspect game play.

And CO is the same Heroes like style I guess, so I didn't touch.

-----> But if EVERYONE is a super hero, no one is really super...

So perhaps ST will surprise some people.

I like the graphics and the principle of "beam me down/up Scotty" is pretty much an example of "instances".

That together with the carton like original TV series is perhaps a pretty good basis for an acceptable instanced adventure game with combat elements, both in space and in B-film like fighting scenes in narrow plastic corridors and locked rooms.

It may be the biggest crap ever, but for the first time in 14 months I'll give a new mmorpg a try besides WOW.

And I won't even be dissapointed because I don't expect anything (the exact opposite I had with War).

Originally posted by Tycalibur

Originally posted by Karahandras

So basically we should all come and play this game, not because it's going to be any good or  anything but because it has star trek in the title?

Maybe you should suggest this to the marketing team

Star Trek online : not very good but it has the star trek name though

 

Point missed, as usual.  I'm not saying that at all.

If you like it, more power to you.  I am stating my opinion in all the posts I've made about this.  I'm one person, and if I don't want to play the game after I've tried the beta, then I won't.

You do realise I was replying to the original post not yours? whose only real piece of information seems to be that sto uses the co engine that he didn't like and we should all shut up and keep any criticism silent purely because he says so and not because it isn't relevant

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Perhaps it is a pleasant surprise.

Played CoH, ... instanced and the usual mmorpg suspect game play.

And CO is the same Heroes like style I guess, so I didn't touch.

-----> But if EVERYONE is a super hero, no one is really super...

So perhaps ST will surprise some people.

I like the graphics and the principle of "beam me down/up Scotty" is pretty much an example of "instances".

That together with the carton like original TV series is perhaps a pretty good basis for an acceptable instanced adventure game with combat elements, both in space and in B-film like fighting scenes in narrow plastic corridors and locked rooms.

It may be the biggest crap ever, but for the first time in 14 months I'll give a new mmorpg a try besides WOW.

And I won't even be dissapointed because I don't expect anything (the exact opposite I had with War).

 

Why waste your money?  Youve already made up your mind its gonna be crap.

The majority of MMO gamers are burnt out of MMOs so they come here and whine about the new MMOs coming out. Their all waiting for the next ground breaking MMO but its not likely to happen anytime soon.

Simple as that really. This website is horribly full of haters so I wouldnt base a MMOs success from posts you see here. I've learned to check elsewhere if I'm looking for any realiable information about any game.

Originally posted by huskiblu

Basically, if you don't want to play the game or think it will fail, shut up.  You are ruining it for those who are eager for it.  Yes, I pre-ordered, and I will buy a lifetime subscription if it's offered.  It's Star Trek!  All of us nerds are eager to be captains and see other captains and roleplay in those roles without being laughed at.  I'm excited, I'm stoked, I will be taking time off work just to take the game in when it's released.  So those with a negative attitude on the game, don't join!  Starfleet doesn't want you!

Okay, referring to your thread title and noting the highlighted statement, can you point to one feature of  this game that makes it "Star Trek" as opposed to "Space Shoot'em up Online?"  Go ahead, we'll wait.

<Jeapardy theme>

Let me bail you out.  Nothing announced about this game relates to Star Trek anymore than it could relate to any generic space-themed MMO.  This game could just as easily wear a Bab 5 skin.  None of the unique features and themes which sets Trek apart from other sci fi franchises exist in this game.  If you are a Trekkie as you claim, you'd realize this and you'd be far less excited.

By all means, enjoy whatever is put out.  But as long as it claims to be Star Trek WHEN IT IS NOT, expect criticism from those who know Trek.

Originally posted by Ethian

Simple as that really. This website is horribly full of haters so I wouldnt base a MMOs success from posts you see here. I've learned to check elsewhere if I'm looking for any realiable information about any game.

Really? My experience has been different. Every game that the majority has said was awful indeed ended up being awful. Examples are Vanguard, AoC, Darkfall, DDO and D&L. Where are those games now compared to pre-launch hype? Were the "trolls" wrong?

There are two games(EVE and WoW) on this site that constantly get good reviews Of course, you do have the real trolls that hang around those forums trying to predict the demise of those games.

Here is my suggestion. Figure out the definition of troll and hater. A troll or hater mindlessly states gibberish. Lots of that in the WoW forums, and yes some can be found in new game threads. Like the OP in this thread is a troll. He expects us to be overjoyed with a game, because it has Star Trek in the name. That is retarded logic, at best. You're a troll, because you came here to add nothing but negativity to the thread. You didn't want to discus anything. You just wanted to call everyone a hater, and put down the website. Why do you even come here? Oh yea, to troll.

Originally posted by tman5

By all means, enjoy whatever is put out.  But as long as it claims to be Star Trek WHEN IT IS NOT, expect criticism from those who know Trek.

Quoted for truthiness.

As for me - I'm done with this subject. A cash shop is a deal-breaker for a P2P game in my eyes, and captains owning a stable full of ships is beyond ridiculous. This game will be an unholy travesty to Trek fans.

If you removed the star trek "skin" from the game (ship designs, uniforms, etc.) and the game was called star force online it wouldn't sell.  It's a very shallow space game with horrible ground combat.   There is nothing in this game other than the ship designs and names of planets / races to remotely associate it with star trek.  Everything is just thrown into this trek stew and they hope you won't notice.  It's your typical kill X amount of X.  Sometimes you blow up ships and sometimes you beam down to a planet and kill people.  Is there combat in trek? Sure, but not totally.  98% of star trek online is shooting things.  2% is instanced exploration that is not persistant.  

People will buy it because of the name alone and then they won't renew it after the first month because just like champions online they will be bored and have run out of things to do.  It's really depressing that trek fans have waited for decades for an online game and when we finally do it's a train wreck.   It won't appeal to star trek fans because it's nothing like star trek and it won't appeal to MMORPGs "flippers" (people that hop from game to game) because it's a shallow and boring mmo.

At first you are like "Yea! I'm playing star trek!" Then after a few hours the "honeymoon" feeling wears off and you see the ugly veneer.  It's almost like a drunken vegas wedding.  You have fun, then you puke your guts out, then you get a divorce. 

Originally posted by Ethian

The majority of MMO gamers are burnt out of MMOs so they come here and whine about the new MMOs coming out. Their all waiting for the next ground breaking MMO but its not likely to happen anytime soon.

 

Simple as that really. This website is horribly full of haters so I wouldnt base a MMOs success from posts you see here. I've learned to check elsewhere if I'm looking for any realiable information about any game.

You do realize that people are saying all these same things on the official forums too, right? People are concerned, and all they're getting from Cryptic are more pretty pictures and poorly made videos, or people like you calling them haters without addressing a single concern.

We're not waiting for the next ground breaking MMO. We're waiting for Star Trek done right.

I really want this game to work but I'm skeptical. I'm afraid they are going to instance the bejezus out of it like they did CO. I do not want to go on an away mission and be the only player on the planet because it is instanced. I want MASSIVE to be put into this MMO. I don't want to boringly solo endlessly just to build my stats up so I can finally get into where the action is.

Another thing that bothers me is their talking about having RMT in the game for mostly fluff items. IMO RMT marketing should stay with F2P games only. I understand from a business perspective a company wanting as much financial success as possible. But their is a fine line between wanting success and downright greed.

Some people are not bothered by this, because these items can be achieved by in game play as well. (So we are told so far...). But to me using a F2P marketing model in a game that must be BOUGHT and SUBSCRIBED TO is the ultimate in greed. It is a personal pet peev to think I can work in game to get an item while some lazy bastage can just go and buy the damn thing. I guess it's my work ethic in real life. Everything I have I've earned by hard work, not by paying people off.

Having a RMT in a purchased, subscription based game may not be that important to some, but it may be enough for me to say fuck you to STO. Just on the principal alone. Greedy bastages.

Personally, for all of us trek gamers, if this game plays better, and entertains me longer than and of the zillion starfleet command games, bridge commander, armada 1 and 2 and any other poorly chugged out trek game I will be happy. All of those can be called reskinned "Space shootem'up" as well. But as a trek fan, sometimes the skin is all you have. 

Originally posted by huskiblu

I have been reading the mostly negative posts about the upcoming Star Trek Online game.  While I don't know the exact in's and out's of this game, just the general details, I am going to state why I and other Trekkies should be excited, and why the faults may not be fault.

First of all the game will be designed for MMO's gamers, they already said they will not focus only on trekkies, sure they will become part of the game but their focus is the MMO player first.

1.  Everyone is complaining that there won't be exploration like Voyager or TNG.  Well, I don't hear any complaints it's not going to be like DS9, right?  DS9 was mostly about war and the fighting.  It was epic.  If Cryptic omitted that, all of you would be whining "Where are the epic battles like DS9?"  Cryptic has to sell this game to non-trekkies.  To do that, it requires to show the fighting.  It looks epic.  Yeah, could be a bit on the easy side, but, for a Trekkie, I can't wait to make my own ship, add what I want to it, and finally feel like a "captain."

Hmm...."everyone" ?

2.  Same engine as Champions Online right?  And...?  Who cares!  Half Life and Team Fortress share the same engine.  I don't like Half Life, but love TF.  Just because the engine is tied to a poor MMO doesn't mean this will be poor.  Leads to my next point...

Well for me it doesn't really matter it's the same engine, what matters to me is they never made a MMORPG in a way I would like to see it,, which does not mean they need to mold the game excactly to my very own wishes,  I just hope they can proof me wrong and in fact really develop a deep MMORPG experiance cause for me that's what Star Trek needs to be if it want's to carry such a big IP. sidenote I disliked TF and loved HL.

3.  So what, Champions Online was shallow.  I played it, enjoyed it, and quit.  Disappointed, yes, but it doesn't mean Star Trek will be like this.  If you refuse to play games made by the same company that were bad, then no one would be touching EA games.  They surely have more bad than good.  So that reasoning makes little sense.

I played it and did not enjoy it CO at all, still will try Star Trek, but again pure based on it being Star Trek

I will try the game regardless what company or my feeling about their former games, but I do have reservations.

4.  Two years to develop = suckage.  No, not true.  How long was Daikatana in development and sucked?  How long as Duke Nukem been in development?  Time means nothing, it's what work is put into the game.  It will also take time to grow beyond that.  WoW sucked day one, and for awhile after that.  But now, it's a near perfect MMO.

WoW sucked at day one? hmm the game got more subs in one week where former MMO's took months if not years to even reach so many subs? maybe you felt WoW sucked aswell other people, but you can simply not compare expectations of Blizzards own IP with a well established IP like Star Trek, don't tell me that expectations will not be allot bigger then with a game like WoW?

Basically, if you don't want to play the game or think it will fail, shut up.  You are ruining it for those who are eager for it.  Yes, I pre-ordered, and I will buy a lifetime subscription if it's offered.  It's Star Trek!  All of us nerds are eager to be captains and see other captains and roleplay in those roles without being laughed at.  I'm excited, I'm stoked, I will be taking time off work just to take the game in when it's released.  So those with a negative attitude on the game, don't join!  Starfleet doesn't want you!

Ah the "this game will fail" only comes from people new to this genre, but I can understand if people are worried what a company like Criptic is going to do with a IP like Star Trek, I am worried, but I never think before I played or tested a game for it to fail. Every game should get a change regardless how I feel about the development team or company. But I also find it silly that if people buy a life time sub to a game without having played/tested it for a considereble time. If you are in CB or OB perhaps you could make that assumtion of getting a life sub, but without playing or testing it first, I still find it strnage people actualy do this, so many topics, so many forums post about people who for some reason bought a life sub or year sub and often end up being disappointed and will scream murder if they can not get a refund. I feel the same about pre-oders, still not sure why people do this with MMORPG's. PErsonaly I never sub more then a months regardless if I fully love a game, there is just to much that can change over time.

Overall I am just not happy about those who got the IP to Star Trek, I can't answer you who I would want to take that IP, but regardless of that I will stil be trying Star Trek Online, based on the IP not so much because of the company behind it. But then again I always judge a game on the game itself rather then jumping hte bandwagon of company hate.

I do hope the game turns out great or atleast good, if not for me hopefully for those who also are intrested in Star Trek Online. So far not seen much that get's me excited, but then the same can be said for SW:Tor, both games I will try but stil not seen or felt a MMORPG fibe coming from them.

Why is no one ever happy?

Two fold

1) MMORPG have a horrible reputation in the gaming industry. See 90% of games launched ever.

2) MMO players... lets just say they have unrealistic expectations and they have no clear definable "want" for a Dev team to target. No matter what a company does, the community backlashes against it.

It's created a very hostile developer environment. You can see that many are giving up as there are far fewer MMO releases in the next year then there has been over the last 5 or 6 years on average. Companies aren't making the money they thought and no one can figure out what the players want. Given todays economic climate, the golden age of new MMO is at an end.

So what happens to an industry when everything they make flops? The market abandons it. The performance of this game and the new Star Wars game will define the future of MMO's. If the 2 most powerful Sci Fi IP's ever flop (and in one case a second time) you can kiss this genre goodbye. The future will be free to play imports from Asia and Freerealms copies.

What do I think about ST? I like Crypic, I think that CoH was a masterful game back in 2004 that was far superior to WoW when it launched and withstood the test of time. I don't know about Champions but I always thought it was a mistake because it was essentually the same game as CoH only not as fleshed out. I don't care what you do, a clone will never work out as we have seen over the years.

From everything I have seen of ST it looks like an MMO version of the old Sega game "Star Trek the next Generation", and back in the early 90's that was a pretty cool game.

I also think that if MMO players don't get over themselves and start enjoying games for what they are and stop crusading about what they aren't, you can kiss our genre goodbye over the next few years. It's bad community PR that is killing our genre in addition to poor technical launches. WAR, AoC and SWG are probably the best examples of just a huge community driven hate campaign that serves nothing but a warning sign that investors see.

The MMO community is slicing it's own throat.

Originally posted by Torak

Why is no one ever happy?

Two fold

1) MMORPG have a horrible reputation in the gaming industry. See 90% of games launched ever.

2) MMO players... lets just say they have unrealistic expectations and they have no clear definable "want" for a Dev team to target. No matter what a company does, the community backlashes against it.

Different players want different things. When devs realize that they can't make a game that appeals to everyone, then they will change to making good games for a subsection of the market.

It's created a very hostile developer environment. You can see that many are giving up as there are far fewer MMO releases in the next year then there has been over the last 5 or 6 years on average. Companies aren't making the money they thought and no one can figure out what the players want. Given todays economic climate, the golden age of new MMO is at an end.

 

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Torak

Why is no one ever happy?

Two fold

1) MMORPG have a horrible reputation in the gaming industry. See 90% of games launched ever.

2) MMO players... lets just say they have unrealistic expectations and they have no clear definable "want" for a Dev team to target. No matter what a company does, the community backlashes against it.

Different players want different things. When devs realize that they can't make a game that appeals to everyone, then they will change to making good games for a subsection of the market.

It's created a very hostile developer environment. You can see that many are giving up as there are far fewer MMO releases in the next year then there has been over the last 5 or 6 years on average. Companies aren't making the money they thought and no one can figure out what the players want. Given todays economic climate, the golden age of new MMO is at an end.

 

Good. Just like the cartridge industry in the early '80s, this business needs a die-off to eliminate a lot of poor product.

Well I'm not advocating the death of MMO's.

They DO need to evolve, the last thing we need is another fantasy grinder that doesn't work at launch. But I think we all know that by now.

The technical state of any western made MMO at launch is so bad it's beyond comical. It's sad that it is a given that a western produced game is just assumed to be non-working and incomplete at launch.

Technical compitence is just as much to blame as anything else.

If we could somehow get a game with the technical ability of say sme Asian teams for example...AION and some of the ideas behind a game like maybe SWG or Fallen Earth or one of dozens of great RPG's or or or ....you get the picture.

 What I am talking about mainly is MMO players like the ones who go to Amazon and rate games like SWG with one star in 2009 over the NGE in 2005. Guys, that's not helping the genre. It would be different if the game was rated for it's current state but almost 5 years later we still have these psychos that just can't let go.

Originally posted by Thrawl

Another thing that bothers me is their talking about having RMT in the game for mostly fluff items. IMO RMT marketing should stay with F2P games only. I understand from a business perspective a company wanting as much financial success as possible. But their is a fine line between wanting success and downright greed.

It's the "mostly" part that bothers me.  Money for fluff items?  Who really cares?  It's the fact they've said some items WON'T be fluff that is really troubling.
 

There are three schools in the Trekverse. There are the Roddenberry Trekkies, the Berman Trekkies and the Abrams Trekkies (I reject the term "Trekker" as pretentious and pointless).  Each subsequent interation stripped more of the classic thoughtful Roddenberry elements from Trek until today, under Abrams' reign, Trek is little more than any generic sci fi with lasers space show.

A Roddenberry Star Trek game would be a great challenge to develop, perhaps impossible.   Yet, as a solid Roddenberry Trekkie, this is what I expect when you claim a Star Trek MMO:  Balance of Terror.  Miri.  Operation Annihilate.  Tapestry.  The Measure of a Man.

Berman and Abrams?  Pew pew.  Explosions.  Repeat.  Next.   This game sounds like it will cater to the Berman or Abrams Trekkie just fine.  I truly hope you enjoy it.

Originally posted by tman5

There are three schools in the Trekverse. There are the Roddenberry Trekkies, the Berman Trekkies and the Abrams Trekkies (I reject the term "Trekker" as pretentious and pointless).  Each subsequent interation stripped more of the classic thoughtful Roddenberry elements from Trek until today, under Abrams' reign, Trek is little more than any generic sci fi with lasers space show.

A Roddenberry Star Trek game would be a great challenge to develop, perhaps impossible.   Yet, as a solid Roddenberry Trekkie, this is what I expect when you claim a Star Trek MMO:  Balance of Terror.  Miri.  Operation Annihilate.  Tapestry.  The Measure of a Man.

Berman and Abrams?  Pew pew.  Explosions.  Repeat.  Next.   This game sounds like it will cater to the Berman or Abrams Trekkie just fine.  I truly hope you enjoy it.

I think good'ol  Roddy had alot less to work with when it came to effects so he built Star Trek with a little less pew pew and a bit more words and more exploration but there was pew pew when there needed to be, Berman and Abrams had a bit more in terms of tech and effects so they could create a more pew pew atmosphere for Trek. Roddenberry is a man and as a man if he lived to this day and age he'd add more pew pew to his stories because thats what he'd like to see.....after a few well placed dialogue leading upto it anyways.

Originally posted by tman5

There are three schools in the Trekverse. There are the Roddenberry Trekkies, the Berman Trekkies and the Abrams Trekkies (I reject the term "Trekker" as pretentious and pointless).  Each subsequent interation stripped more of the classic thoughtful Roddenberry elements from Trek until today, under Abrams' reign, Trek is little more than any generic sci fi with lasers space show.

A Roddenberry Star Trek game would be a great challenge to develop, perhaps impossible.   Yet, as a solid Roddenberry Trekkie, this is what I expect when you claim a Star Trek MMO:  Balance of Terror.  Miri.  Operation Annihilate.  Tapestry.  The Measure of a Man.

Berman and Abrams?  Pew pew.  Explosions.  Repeat.  Next.   This game sounds like it will cater to the Berman or Abrams Trekkie just fine.  I truly hope you enjoy it.

I'm curious as to where you found these classifications because I've never heard of them before. I have encountered people who basically worship Roddenberry (which is mostly misguided I think, claiming Roddenberry is the only creative force behind TOS or TNG is like claiming Benjamin Franklin was soley responsible for the founding of the United States of America.)

I classify Trek into three parts as well: Good Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9,) bad Trek (Voyager, Enterprise,) and pretending-to-be Trek (new movie.)

Sorry but Space and ground Pew Pew Pew Pew with randomised created zones (City of Heroes ring a bell), with just Star Trek skins isn't what I call Star Trek.

Thanks but no thanks.

Originally posted by Xondar123 

I'm curious as to where you found these classifications because I've never heard of them before. I have encountered people who basically worship Roddenberry (which is mostly misguided I think, claiming Roddenberry is the only creative force behind TOS or TNG is like claiming Benjamin Franklin was soley responsible for the founding of the United States of America.)

A very good point. There was another Gene (I can't remember his last name) who came up with some of the core aspects of the IP. I believe the Prime Directive was one of those.

EDIT: Gene L. Coon was the name.

From Wiki:

His credited creations for Star Trek include the Klingons (in "Errand of Mercy"), Khan Noonien Singh (in "Space Seed"), Zefram Cochrane (in "Metamorphosis"), and the Prime Directive. Since he also had the position of doing rewrites for scripts, his work touches many more episodes. He also mentored the young David Gerrold, helping him to write the episode "The Trouble With Tribbles".

Originally posted by Xondar123

I classify Trek into three parts as well: Good Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9,) bad Trek (Voyager, Enterprise,) and pretending-to-be Trek (new movie.)

That's my personal system a well...of course it largely lines up timeline-wise with the other guy's.
 

People are spoiled and expect every MMO to tend to their specific taste.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by tman5

There are three schools in the Trekverse. There are the Roddenberry Trekkies, the Berman Trekkies and the Abrams Trekkies (I reject the term "Trekker" as pretentious and pointless).  Each subsequent interation stripped more of the classic thoughtful Roddenberry elements from Trek until today, under Abrams' reign, Trek is little more than any generic sci fi with lasers space show.

A Roddenberry Star Trek game would be a great challenge to develop, perhaps impossible.   Yet, as a solid Roddenberry Trekkie, this is what I expect when you claim a Star Trek MMO:  Balance of Terror.  Miri.  Operation Annihilate.  Tapestry.  The Measure of a Man.

Berman and Abrams?  Pew pew.  Explosions.  Repeat.  Next.   This game sounds like it will cater to the Berman or Abrams Trekkie just fine.  I truly hope you enjoy it.

 

I think good'ol  Roddy had alot less to work with when it came to effects so he built Star Trek with a little less pew pew and a bit more words and more exploration but there was pew pew when there needed to be, Berman and Abrams had a bit more in terms of tech and effects so they could create a more pew pew atmosphere for Trek. Roddenberry is a man and as a man if he lived to this day and age he'd add more pew pew to his stories because thats what he'd like to see.....after a few well placed dialogue leading upto it anyways.

I really disagree with this.  Sure the combat effects would have been better, but if Roddenberry (and the others involved) would have done as you suggest then Star Trek would have suffered greatly for it.  I think they were smart enough to know that.  Maybe you'd have some more space battles INSTEAD of hand-to-hand fights, but I don't think the number of fights would have changed much.