I think WoW has some great features , And also there is alway people to do Q with no matter what time of the day/night which is always really cool

I dont play atm im playing WAR but it kind of suck's that there arent always people to Q with sometimes on WAR because i play MMO's at odd times

WoW, like any game in this industry, could be found have great positives and negatives but I think because of the impact WoW has had really amplifies both of those perspectives.

Positive-

• I think WoW proved to the MMO genre that a non-MMO company could be successful with its very first MMO. Blizzard had a long reputation as a really good single player game developer. I can still remember the arguments that were flying when they announced they would get into the MMO business and how so many of those arguments were about how bad they would fail or how single player companies should stick to doing only single player games and the like.
• WoW turned the industry on its head; not because of its unbelievable numbers of subscriptions, but rather that Blizzard had really brought the high fantasy genre to a new level of awareness and to a new audience.
• WoW proved that high fantasy is the king of all mythos and genres. If anyone had any doubt that fantasy was not the most preferred kind of escapism as far as gaming was concerned, WoW destroyed that doubt.
• WoW introduced a new generation and new diversity of gamers to be sure. Different demographics began to play in numbers greater than had ever been seen previous.

Negative-

• WoW's unbelievable number of subscriptions really made the community who watches the comings and going of the MMO industry really start to have very skewed ideas about that market. It is very sad that so many people think that if a game doesn't have over one million subscribers, then it isn't a success... and that is definitely not true at all!
• WoW (in my opinion) is not one of Blizzard's best games. The game play, the cartoony look, the thin backstory and lore just is almost childish. The Diablo series and Starcraft games were much MUCH better than the Warcraft series which makes me always wonder why Blizzard didn't do a Diablo or Starcraft MMO first.
• WoW's numbers and impact on the industry, as amazing as they are, will also end up being the Achilles Heal for the game. There is a HUGE bullseye on Blizzard's back now and just like Everquest before it, WoW is now the game that companies left and right want to bring down, and they will continue to create games until there is a game that breaks WoW just like WoW broke Evercrack. It will happen I assure you, and when it does everyone will comment about what caused the downfall of WoW just like they discussed the downfall of EQ.
• Stories about the levels of griefing and ganking that have continued to plague the game as well as the reports of inordinate numbers of rude, obnoxious and downright ugly violations of player etiquette probably has not helped the overall rep of MMO games. (And yes I Beta-ed and played WoW for a short time and have experienced some of these very complaints).

WoW is what it is: A huge financial success. A hugely popular game. A major sea change within the industry. The almost literal 800lb gorilla in the room that everyone else tries not to look at or is so fearfully worried about that they try to cringe in the corner to get away from it.

Is WoW a great game? Not in my opinion, but obviously good enough for a ton of folks. No one however will argue the impact of this game for generations to come both positive and negative.

So Mote It Be.

Originally posted by chouming

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by chouming

Let me see if I can get what some people say right ....

WoW introduced MMO to a large group of people who would have never played the game.

So..in a way..those people are playing a game that you do not like and never would have played. Why does it matter to the rest of the you who started play MMO before WoW. I mean, that lot of money would never have been made by anyone if WoW never existed because those people would have never played the game in your view. In term of MMO, other companies have the option to still design the game to the old ..oh say 100k player base...they could have still done it. Saying WoW lower the standard of the MMO is like saying McD ruined the whole gourmet industry. They are cater to different crowed and most of them do not even intercept anyway.  After all, its TWO different group we are talking about...aren't they ?

Corporations are built around profit.  Do you think they're going to create a product to attempt to appeal to the 10 million strong market? or the 100k strong market?  You can't really compare it to McDonalds and high quality food, because you pay more money for higher quality food, but nobody would pay something like 30 or 40 dollars a month for a higher quality MMORPG because they've already paid 10 dollars a month for a high quality one.

I know how Corporations work. My point is...those big chunk of WOW players don't exist before WoW. Now those Corporation want a piece of pie that wasn't there before. How is that WoW's fault ? They brought in the EXTRA income for the player base that wasn't there. You said it yourself, nobody would pay 30 or 40 bux a month for a higher quality one, because they consider WoW a high quality product ? that's not what I heard from most of the thread here lol. Again, I don't think its WoW's problem, its those who wants a share of the big pie's problem.

You're not very good at reading comprehension.  Nobody would pay 30 - 40 dollars for a high quality game because before World of Warcraft there were high quality games for 10 dollars a month.  The only people who consider WoW a high quality product are people with little to no experience in gaming/MMOs.

The issue with those who want a piece of the pie is that they've always been like this.  It's unchangable.   It is the people who purchase the products that control them, consumers have power.  That's why a lot of people try to convince others that WoW is not a good game, so they'll use their purchasing power by not playing WoW and maybe supporting a smaller indy game that might provide much more interesting gameplay in certain areas, but ultimately be less polished (but also less dumbed down).

Unfortunately it seems like the PvE world is fucked, because the only place you see innovation is games with open PvP.  And sadly that innovation is just rehashed sandbox PvP that's trying to recreate some earlier failed MMO with city sieging and crap like that in it.

Originally posted by Masoniclight

WoW, like any game in this industry, could be found have great positives and negatives but I think because of the impact WoW has had really amplifies both of those perspectives.

Positive-

• I think WoW proved to the MMO genre that a non-MMO company could be successful with its very first MMO. Blizzard had a long reputation as a really good single player game developer. I can still remember the arguments that were flying when they announced they would get into the MMO business and how so many of those arguments were about how bad they would fail or how single player companies should stick to doing only single player games and the like.
• WoW turned the industry on its head; not because of its unbelievable numbers of subscriptions, but rather that Blizzard had really brought the high fantasy genre to a new level of awareness and to a new audience.
• WoW proved that high fantasy is the king of all mythos and genres. If anyone had any doubt that fantasy was not the most preferred kind of escapism as far as gaming was concerned, WoW destroyed that doubt.
• WoW introduced a new generation and new diversity of gamers to be sure. Different demographics began to play in numbers greater than had ever been seen previous.

 

Negative-

• WoW's unbelievable number of subscriptions really made the community who watches the comings and going of the MMO industry really start to have very skewed ideas about that market. It is very sad that so many people think that if a game doesn't have over one million subscribers, then it isn't a success... and that is definitely not true at all!
• WoW (in my opinion) is not one of Blizzard's best games. The game play, the cartoony look, the thin backstory and lore just is almost childish. The Diablo series and Starcraft games were much MUCH better than the Warcraft series which makes me always wonder why Blizzard didn't do a Diablo or Starcraft MMO first.
• WoW's numbers and impact on the industry, as amazing as they are, will also end up being the Achilles Heal for the game. There is a HUGE bullseye on Blizzard's back now and just like Everquest before it, WoW is now the game that companies left and right want to bring down, and they will continue to create games until there is a game that breaks WoW just like WoW broke Evercrack. It will happen I assure you, and when it does everyone will comment about what caused the downfall of WoW just like they discussed the downfall of EQ.
• Stories about the levels of griefing and ganking that have continued to plague the game as well as the reports of inordinate numbers of rude, obnoxious and downright ugly violations of player etiquette probably has not helped the overall rep of MMO games. (And yes I Beta-ed and played WoW for a short time and have experienced some of these very complaints).

 

WoW is what it is: A huge financial success. A hugely popular game. A major sea change within the industry. The almost literal 800lb gorilla in the room that everyone else tries not to look at or is so fearfully worried about that they try to cringe in the corner to get away from it.

Is WoW a great game? Not in my opinion, but obviously good enough for a ton of folks. No one however will argue the impact of this game for generations to come both positive and negative.

So Mote It Be.

 

It's popular to people who aren't real gamers.  Think of it like this: you have a place where people love to fish recreationally.  Soon a booming tourist industry opens up where loads of charter boats move in.  Soon enough the waters are dried up because all of the tourists overfishing and the charter boats exploiting laws.  there are no fish left for the original fishing enthusiasts.  Soon enough the tourists will stop coming in as well, there are no fish left.  You're damaging the industry basically.  MMORPGs that are entirely focused on player progression are unsustainable, people will eventually burn out and never want to play an MMORPG again.  They don't even know what an MMORPG is capable of, but they'll swear them off forever.

Richard Garriott said something of that nature by the way, except he thinks eventually it'll come around when people get burned out and provide innovation once more.

WoW is a high quality product, it has production values rarely seen in other MMOs. Now whether it is to your taste or not, that is entirely subjective. As in, an opine. To suggest people who like WoW are not able to fashion an opinion about MMOs is a bit self-serving and egotistic.

 No one can argue with a straight face that it's had a good effect on the industry. All you need to do is compare the amount of innovation, the maturity level, and the different type of games pre WoW, to the ones post WoW. 

Pre WoW you had a largely varied genre with a large number of high quality unique games that devs put their heart and soul into and steadily grew over the years. 

Post WoW, you have massively overproduced gimmick MMO's that are 95% WoW clone, and don't even have some of the features that games from 2000 had. PvP game from 2001 made with 30 people, max amount of people fighting at once before slow down - 600. 

PvP game from 2007-8  with about a hundred developers and a marketing budget bigger than the entire budget of aforementioned game, max number of people in combat before lag - capped at 40 in an instanced zone. 

WoW appeals to non gamers, which is why it is popular. It is a well polished, mind numbingly simple game.  It mainstreamed the industry, brought a lot of non gamers into it. Which is nice and all, but now the people who loved the industry  are left with nothing, whereas casual gamers had their own MMOs before WoW, now we have non after WoW :/

I think positive for sure. Wow took a fun aspect of other games and perfected it. I personally love collecting new items and battling through well thought out and planned raid content but....  just like anything, too much of a good thing will wear you out over time.  For the games that come after wow comes to a close, I hope they dont do away with the ideas that blizzard has perfected. I hope they keep them to an extent and focus on something new like story telling and immersion and perfect that. WoW doesnt have to be killed off to progress the mmo world, I know Ill always go back and play when I feel the itch to do some mindless dungeon crawling for goodies. ...  just like Diablo 2 always calls me back.

Originally posted by crictor

I think positive for sure. Wow took a fun aspect of other games and perfected it. I personally love collecting new items and battling through well thought out and planned raid content

Those ideas were already present in other MMOs long long LONG before WoW... WoW took the addictive part of other MMOs and made them mind numbingly simple so that non gamers and little kids could get into the game. Simple as that. That's not "perfection" unless you're the one getting money. 

Positive.

They may have not broken boundries when it comes to game mechanics but they delivered.

Better can of beans in the table than undelivered promices of steak.

Originally posted by Irishoak

WoW is a high quality product, it has production values rarely seen in other MMOs. Now whether it is to your taste or not, that is entirely subjective. As in, an opine. To suggest people who like WoW are not able to fashion an opinion about MMOs is a bit self-serving and egotistic.

Let's compare WoW to the movie industry.  WoW is the Michael Bay movie of gaming.  Big budget, shitty story with awful dialogue that idiots can understand, lots of shiny expensive special effects.  Sure it can be entertaining, but it lacks substance.  It lacks the intricacies of a good story.

WoW is a polished turd, that's about it.  The poster above me has the right idea. Edit: referring to Sigmus.

Originally posted by crictor

I think positive for sure. Wow took a fun aspect of other games and perfected it. I personally love collecting new items and battling through well thought out and planned raid content but....  just like anything, too much of a good thing will wear you out over time.  For the games that come after wow comes to a close, I hope they dont do away with the ideas that blizzard has perfected. I hope they keep them to an extent and focus on something new like story telling and immersion and perfect that. WoW doesnt have to be killed off to progress the mmo world, I know Ill always go back and play when I feel the itch to do some mindless dungeon crawling for goodies. ...  just like Diablo 2 always calls me back.

Can you tell me what it's like to be a mindless idiot whose never had an intelligent thought in the world?  perhaps you could even help me become like you?  I feel like I'm fucking cursed here because I can see through WoW's bullshit so easily.  I want to be assimilated, I want to enjoy it, life would be fucking wonderful if I could stare at the screen in that meaningless game and repeat the endless grind without wondering "What the fuck am I progressing endlessly for?"

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by Irishoak

WoW is a high quality product, it has production values rarely seen in other MMOs. Now whether it is to your taste or not, that is entirely subjective. As in, an opine. To suggest people who like WoW are not able to fashion an opinion about MMOs is a bit self-serving and egotistic.

Let's compare WoW to the movie industry.  WoW is the Michael Bay movie of gaming.  Big budget, shitty story with awful dialogue that idiots can understand, lots of shiny expensive special effects.  Sure it can be entertaining, but it lacks substance.  It lacks the intricacies of a good story.

WoW is a polished turd, that's about it. 

Agreed. 

Those saying "WoW is a good game, of course that's a good impact." You're kind of ignoring the question. We're not talking about whether or not you like WoW. We're talking about what you think it did for the industry as a whole. And what it did, was (borrowing from the movie metaphor) is make it so that every single "movie" that has come out since WoW, has been Transformers 2, a flashy special effects movie with absolutely no substance. Worse, a KNOCK OFF, of a cheap special effects movie (think Meet the Spartans, or Scary Movie 4) 

Originally posted by Irishoak

WoW is a high quality product, it has production values rarely seen in other MMOs. Now whether it is to your taste or not, that is entirely subjective. As in, an opine. To suggest people who like WoW are not able to fashion an opinion about MMOs is a bit self-serving and egotistic.

The problem with that is that WOW was the first MMO for a lot of people. One person i met ingame actually told me he thought WOW was unique until he heard/read people talking about other MMO's.  So there are at least some who cannot fashion an opinion about MMOs.

Originally posted by SignusM

 No one can argue with a straight face that it's had a good effect on the industry. All you need to do is compare the amount of innovation, the maturity level, and the different type of games pre WoW, to the ones post WoW. 

 

Pre WoW you had a largely varied genre with a large number of high quality unique games that devs put their heart and soul into and steadily grew over the years. 

 

Post WoW, you have massively overproduced gimmick MMO's that are 95% WoW clone, and don't even have some of the features that games from 2000 had. PvP game from 2001 made with 30 people, max amount of people fighting at once before slow down - 600. 

 

PvP game from 2007-8  with about a hundred developers and a marketing budget bigger than the entire budget of aforementioned game, max number of people in combat before lag - capped at 40 in an instanced zone. 

 

WoW appeals to non gamers, which is why it is popular. It is a well polished, mind numbingly simple game.  It mainstreamed the industry, brought a lot of non gamers into it. Which is nice and all, but now the people who loved the industry  are left with nothing, whereas casual gamers had their own MMOs before WoW, now we have non after WoW :/

It appears that your opinion is heaviliy biased against WoW and is rather subjective and blinkered.

1. Innovation pre-WoW?  Seriously?  There wasn't that many MMO's out before WoW to make such insinuations that there was great innovation occuring before WoW.  In fact there's probably more MMO's out now than there has ever been.  And the majority that did release prior to WoW are still going to this day.  So in actual fact, given the choice we have today, WoW has helped the industry.

2.  WoW is not to blame for the maturity level of players.  WoW didn't make them that way, people chose to act that way, just like asshats choose to be so on forums.  Besides, there are people playing WoW who are more mature than others who have never played it.  WoW opened the doors of the MMO market to the masses, but it isn't to blame for a persons maturity.

3.  Quality games pre-WoW?  Seriously?  You would classify SWG or EQ2's (which technically launched prior to WoW) performance at launch as a measure of quality games when they ran like pants, crashed all the time and lagged everywhere?  The best case in point is Anarchy Online's terrible launch back in 2001.  No, the quality of MMO's didn't degrade with WoW, only the publics level of acceptance changed after WoW was introduced.  And the industry had to change with it, which meant focusing on those aspects that the public defines as being a sign of quality which dev companies had never had to think about before (such as graphics and quest systems).  I'm not saying WoW ran perfectly, but it performed in many respects better than others.  Before WoW, people were more inclined to accept SWG's or Anarchy Onlines lag because we didn't know it could be any better.  After WoW, people began comparing WoW's various elements to other games.  And if WoW came out on top, then that's were people went.

4.  What exactly would you class as being elements that are indicative of a WoW Clone?  A usable UI perhaps?  Swords and Sorcery perhaps?  If anything, WoW is an EQ clone.  And I bet you won't subscribe to THAT ideal.  It's funny that MMORPG.COM recently did a write up of the top 10 most inappropriately used MMO phrases, and "Wow Clone" was at the top.

5.  Please don't tell me you blame WoW for lag in MMO games.  SWG had, and still has, awful lag.  Anarchy Online which launched in 2001 again has massive lag to THIS day.  WoW cannot be blamed for MMOs that were released prior to it.  Furthermore, WoW cannot be blamed for devs who ignore the imbalance between what they want to achieve and what the hardware is programmed to do or can do. 

6.  As for features, that's not the fault of WoW directly.  WoW showed the world what it could have in terms of MMO's.  The MMO development focus therefore shifted to meet that demand.  If the developement companies do not factor in enough time to not only meet WoW in terms of its elements but then surpass it by providing more, then WoW is not to blame for that.  Rising costs are in part to blame....which brings me neatly to....

7.  Overheads, cost of living and salaries have increased MANY times since 2000.  You can't blame game development budgets on WoW.

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by chouming

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by chouming

Let me see if I can get what some people say right ....

WoW introduced MMO to a large group of people who would have never played the game.

So..in a way..those people are playing a game that you do not like and never would have played. Why does it matter to the rest of the you who started play MMO before WoW. I mean, that lot of money would never have been made by anyone if WoW never existed because those people would have never played the game in your view. In term of MMO, other companies have the option to still design the game to the old ..oh say 100k player base...they could have still done it. Saying WoW lower the standard of the MMO is like saying McD ruined the whole gourmet industry. They are cater to different crowed and most of them do not even intercept anyway.  After all, its TWO different group we are talking about...aren't they ?

Corporations are built around profit.  Do you think they're going to create a product to attempt to appeal to the 10 million strong market? or the 100k strong market?  You can't really compare it to McDonalds and high quality food, because you pay more money for higher quality food, but nobody would pay something like 30 or 40 dollars a month for a higher quality MMORPG because they've already paid 10 dollars a month for a high quality one.

I know how Corporations work. My point is...those big chunk of WOW players don't exist before WoW. Now those Corporation want a piece of pie that wasn't there before. How is that WoW's fault ? They brought in the EXTRA income for the player base that wasn't there. You said it yourself, nobody would pay 30 or 40 bux a month for a higher quality one, because they consider WoW a high quality product ? that's not what I heard from most of the thread here lol. Again, I don't think its WoW's problem, its those who wants a share of the big pie's problem.

You're not very good at reading comprehension.  Nobody would pay 30 - 40 dollars for a high quality game because before World of Warcraft there were high quality games for 10 dollars a month.  The only people who consider WoW a high quality product are people with little to no experience in gaming/MMOs.

The issue with those who want a piece of the pie is that they've always been like this.  It's unchangable.   It is the people who purchase the products that control them, consumers have power.  That's why a lot of people try to convince others that WoW is not a good game, so they'll use their purchasing power by not playing WoW and maybe supporting a smaller indy game that might provide much more interesting gameplay in certain areas, but ultimately be less polished (but also less dumbed down).

Unfortunately it seems like the PvE world is fucked, because the only place you see innovation is games with open PvP.  And sadly that innovation is just rehashed sandbox PvP that's trying to recreate some earlier failed MMO with city sieging and crap like that in it.

Actually, I dont have problem in reading comprehension. Those people who are called MMO newbies or whatever they are, as some people said, would never have played MMO. For them, if they like WoW, why would anyone have problem with it. They use their money to vote for a game they like. I don't see a problem with that. Dumb down or not, if they enjoy it, whats wrong with that ? A good game or not, it really is up to the person. If someone is having fun, who is to say it's not fun. It is all a matter of opinion. Indie companies should make a decent game and it's their choice to do so. If they are good, I am sure people would move over there. If there is just nothing interests them there, they would not bring their money over. Plain and simple. 

It is a big world out there and not everyone enjoy what others might enjoy. People really should realized that. One man's trash is another's treasure.

True they made everything mind numbingly simple, maybe a little too simple for my taste.  They definitely stuck with what makes the most money. But you cant label someone a non gamer or a kid just because they prefer something that feels more organized and streamlined. Having battled through quest lines in everquest, wow has helped with the headache factor but like I said, they went too extreme making everything a hand hold across a pillow lined highway. So do you honestly think that the developers at blizzard sat down and made a game just to target kids as opposed to trying to fix the problems that annoyed people in early mmos.

Negative.

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by SignusM

 No one can argue with a straight face that it's had a good effect on the industry. All you need to do is compare the amount of innovation, the maturity level, and the different type of games pre WoW, to the ones post WoW. 

 

Pre WoW you had a largely varied genre with a large number of high quality unique games that devs put their heart and soul into and steadily grew over the years. 

 

Post WoW, you have massively overproduced gimmick MMO's that are 95% WoW clone, and don't even have some of the features that games from 2000 had. PvP game from 2001 made with 30 people, max amount of people fighting at once before slow down - 600. 

 

PvP game from 2007-8  with about a hundred developers and a marketing budget bigger than the entire budget of aforementioned game, max number of people in combat before lag - capped at 40 in an instanced zone. 

 

WoW appeals to non gamers, which is why it is popular. It is a well polished, mind numbingly simple game.  It mainstreamed the industry, brought a lot of non gamers into it. Which is nice and all, but now the people who loved the industry  are left with nothing, whereas casual gamers had their own MMOs before WoW, now we have non after WoW :/

1. Innovation pre-WoW?  Seriously?  There wasn't that many MMO's out before WoW to make such insinuations that there was great innovation occuring before WoW.  In fact there's probably more MMO's out now than there has ever been.  And the majority that did release prior to WoW are still going to this day.  So in actual fact, given the choice we have today, WoW has helped the industry.

There were TONS of MMOs before WoW. And the features that those MMOs introduced pretty much set the standard for the industry. Almost every modern feature in the entire MMORPG industry you can trace back to these 4, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultima Online, and EverQuest. MMO industry has been going on since what, 1994 I believe. You honestly think there were "hardly any" MMORPGs before WoW? WoW is still a young child in the industry. Tell me , what new features have been invented by WoW? 

2.  WoW is not to blame for the maturity level of players.  

Yes, WoW is to blame. Their demographic is the casual audience, people who are impatient, many who are young, and people who want instant gratification. It's not always the case, but usually, when you make a shallow game to appeal to Halo kiddies, you get, immature people. And since appealing to this market, instead of the RPG market, is so vastly successful, other MMOs have followed suit with shallow games. 

3.  Quality games pre-WoW?  Seriously?  You call SWG at launch or EQ2 (which technically launched prior to WoW) quality games when they ran like pants and lagged everywhere?  Another case in point:  Anarchy Online's launch.   The Quality didn't degrade.  Only the publics level of acceptance changed in terms of quality.  Before WoW, people were more inclined to accept SWG's or Anarchy Onlines lag because we didn't know it could be any better.

No, they were not inclined to accept those games, that's why Anarchy Online was hardly played by anyone, and SWG was on the verge of shutting down, the ONLY thing that saved it from its HORRIBLE launch was the Star Wars name. People love Star Wars. And yeah, games nowadays have so much LESS in them in terms of mechanics that it must be easier to launch, sadly, this has not been the case, cause games STILL launch with horrible bugs and flaws and missing features (Age of Conan) no matter the standard. 

4.  What exactly would you class as being elements that are indicative of a WoW Clone?  A usable UI perhaps?  Swords and Sorcery perhaps?  If anything, WoW is an EQ clone.  And I bet you won't subscribe to THAT ideal.

WoW clone? Games that play and feel exactly like WoW perhaps? Such as, having floating quest icons, and quest xp being the primary way to level up. No death penalty. High rate of experience gain and instant gratification. No real end game. Shallow instanced based PvP/raiding system. Oversaturation of quests. Focus on solo and casual play and not on RPG mechanics or socializing. Shallow crafting system. Need I go on? WoW wasn't so much an EQ clone, more of, WoW was a kiddie version of EverQuest, with everything from the world, to the mechanics, done smaller, simpler, easier, without any depth. 

5.  Please don't tell me you blame WoW for lag in MMO games.  

No, I blame WoW for popularizing simple games that try to appeal to mass audience with things that don't really matter (flashy graphics, instant gratification, ect ect) and spend less time on the actual gameplay. More money is being put into advertising than making the game. 

 

6.  Overheads and salaries have increased MANY times since 2000.  You can't blame budgets on WoW.

When did I?

7. Non gamers?  You mean non-MMO gamers don't you if you really want to be any more elitist.

It doesn't stop at just non-MMO gamers, it extends to the same people that play Wii Fit. I have nothing against those people, and I have nothing against Wii Fit, because not all games in the entire genre have turned into Wii Fit clones. The MMORPG genre however, has turned into a market of simple WoW clones and leaves none for the people that where here when the genre was created, the MMORPG gamers. WoW uses the addictive tendencies of EQ, without ANY of the penalties for screwing up, and targets people who have never touched an online game (many times, haven't touched ANY game) because they know those simple people may have been turned off by losing something upon death, and want to provide a game that is just simple casual mindless happy gathering loot and gaining levels that mean nothing, because the leveling up system is, addictive. Again, nothing wrong with a game for casual gamers, but it doesn't stop there. Those casual gamers, usually don't have any idea an MMORPG genre even exists. I had one WoW player who told me she thought WoW was a game some guy made and runs from ONE computer and had never heard of MMORPGs before. Then the people who DO know what an MMO is, go around saying how WoW is the best thing ever, and the most innovative thing ever in the world ever!!111! It's annoying, and other companies have tried to loop in that casual market, and so us real gamers, suffer. 

There, enjoy that. 

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by crictor

I think positive for sure. Wow took a fun aspect of other games and perfected it. I personally love collecting new items and battling through well thought out and planned raid content but....  just like anything, too much of a good thing will wear you out over time.  For the games that come after wow comes to a close, I hope they dont do away with the ideas that blizzard has perfected. I hope they keep them to an extent and focus on something new like story telling and immersion and perfect that. WoW doesnt have to be killed off to progress the mmo world, I know Ill always go back and play when I feel the itch to do some mindless dungeon crawling for goodies. ...  just like Diablo 2 always calls me back.

Can you tell me what it's like to be a mindless idiot whose never had an intelligent thought in the world?  perhaps you could even help me become like you?  I feel like I'm fucking cursed here because I can see through WoW's bullshit so easily.  I want to be assimilated, I want to enjoy it, life would be fucking wonderful if I could stare at the screen in that meaningless game and repeat the endless grind without wondering "What the fuck am I progressing endlessly for?"

Then dont play the game, you know what you shouldnt play the game. Angry gamers are funny, they sit playing and playing complaining the whole time hating themselves and there lives cause they cant stop. Then when they fail college and there girls leave them your finally able to pull yourself away and turn back to rain your hate down on intelligent people who are smart enough to choose the things they like and reject the things they dont without a worry.

WoW is the worst thing to happen to gaming ever, yea I played it. Hasn't everyone played it? The reason I ultimately ended up playing the game for any period of time was the people I played it with.

Why is it the worst thing to happen to gaming? Since WoW has come along the general quality of games has declined greatly. Everyone is trying to make some casual friendly piece of trash. Play for an hour a day? Play the game by yourself? Grief people over and over and over? Jump through hoops with a bunch of morons because they could reach max level in a week playing one hour a day?  Welcome to WoW!

I can still go back and play like 70% of the games released between 80-99. And they are Still awesome. Fast forward to today, I can't even find a game that takes more then a few days to beat and is actually fun to play. Why? Why Can't I find a game worth playing? Oh its because since around 2003/04 everything has been about appealing to the masses, the people who want to play a game for an hour a day and beat it in a week. The people who want an MMO they can play by themself. The same people who want an MMO where they can have the same amount of power as someone who has been playing for months. The same people who call me elitist because I suspect that if someone is taking massive amounts of damage they can see why and realize its bad to stand in Fire.

The games worth playing today are few and far in between, to me, it seems like this coincided with WoW's release and after playing the game and following it for the past few years I can tell you its upsetting.

I can't even articulate my full apathy and concern for the gaming industry as a whole since the release of WoW. I just want to go back to when games took some skill and were fun to play.