I tried Darkfall for a while and even though I like FFA PvP in Darkfall, like in Eve, you lose everything (on you) when you die. Which leads to the majority of the population running around either naked or in cheap stuff, when doing PvP. The rich guys on the other hand can afford to lose their stuff so they run around decked out in the most expensive stuff money can buy.

That is what reminds me of Eve actually, most people (in PvP), are using cheap ships/equipment where as the rich guys are sitting in T2 Ships, Battleships and Carriers with T2/Faction modules.

Is that how it is meant to be and how is that a good thing? 

Originally posted by Yamota

 I tried Darkfall for a while and even though I like FFA PvP in Darkfall, like in Eve, you lose everything (on you) when you die. Which leads to the majority of the population running around either naked or in cheap stuff, when doing PvP. The rich guys on the other hand can afford to lose their stuff so they run around decked out in the most expensive stuff money can buy.

That is what reminds me of Eve actually, most people (in PvP), are using cheap ships/equipment where as the rich guys are sitting in T2 Ships, Battleships and Carriers with T2/Faction modules.

Is that how it is meant to be and how is that a good thing? 

Why should it be a bad thing? In any case, two guys in cheap ships can easily take down one guy in an expensive ship, if the guys in cheap ships have a clue. Sometimes it doesn't even need two, depending on the ships. All the ships in EvE tend to have at least one glaring weakness that matches the strong point of another ship. There's a counter for pretty much everything. There's no "uber" ship or fit that beats everything just because it's expensive.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by Yamota

 I tried Darkfall for a while and even though I like FFA PvP in Darkfall, like in Eve, you lose everything (on you) when you die. Which leads to the majority of the population running around either naked or in cheap stuff, when doing PvP. The rich guys on the other hand can afford to lose their stuff so they run around decked out in the most expensive stuff money can buy.

That is what reminds me of Eve actually, most people (in PvP), are using cheap ships/equipment where as the rich guys are sitting in T2 Ships, Battleships and Carriers with T2/Faction modules.

Is that how it is meant to be and how is that a good thing? 

 

Why should it be a bad thing? In any case, two guys in cheap ships can easily take down one guy in an expensive ship, if the guys in cheap ships have a clue. Sometimes it doesn't even need two, depending on the ships. All the ships in EvE tend to have at least one glaring weakness that matches the strong point of another ship. There's a counter for pretty much everything. There's no "uber" ship or fit that beats everything just because it's expensive.

Uber ship that beats everything? Hm, no that was not what I was saying.

What I was saying was that if the guy in the expensive ship "has a clue" as well then he would have no problem taking out the ones in cheap stuff. Equipment/ships are very important in this game.

For example, someone in an T2 Cruiser and faction modules has a huge advantage over someone in a T1 Cruiser and T1 modules. Ofcourse he could just plain suck in PvP but so could the one in the T1 ship.

Also the rich guy in T2 stuff can afford to lose his ship, he has billions so he can just get a new one in minutes, where as the poor guys, would need to spend atleast a couple an hour farming to get the money back (even for T1 cruisers) not to mention if he was in a BS...

That was my point and I did not see how that adds to the game. Ofcourse it is fun for the rich guy who has access to T2 BPOs and/or high level inventions but for the regular Joe Shmoe (which I would say is the majority of people out there) it makes PvP a restricted area.

I know Eve is a "hardcore" PvP game but it would not hurt to give people who are a little less "hardcore" a way to get into PvP as well (beside being a tackler).

I heard about faction wars, but I havent looked into it, maybe that is something for us "regular" folks who likes to do some PvP but doesnt have billions in the bank.

I'd say guy in good gear can take down 4-5 naked guys in DFO. Or even more. That's why good players don't roam naked... And Hurricane is better than any t2 cruiser for a roaming gang. Almost any (perhaps a few logistics would be good)...

Why making a thread about how you fail at EVE?

Originally posted by Gdemami

Why making a thread about how you fail at EVE?

Why respond to a thread you clearly dont understand?

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Originally posted by Yamota
Why respond to a thread you clearly dont understand?

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It is always easier to blame the others, isn't?

Blame them for their ability to make ISK, blame them for being capable of ISK management, blame them for their skills and witt, blame them for possesing T2 BPO, blame them for not undetstanding your whines...yeah, it's all their fault and bad game design.

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Originally posted by Yamota
For example, someone in an T2 Cruiser and faction modules has a huge advantage over someone in a T1 Cruiser and T1 modules. Ofcourse he could just plain suck in PvP but so could the one in the T1 ship.

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No matter how much you pimp your rock, t1 paper will always pop your ship.

In other words, what Gdemami said. Stop blaming everyone else when the only one who is to blame is you. You're responsible for learning how combat works, you're responsible for finding good isk sources, you're responsible for anything you do.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Yamota
Why respond to a thread you clearly dont understand?

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It is always easier to blame the others, isn't?

Blame them for their ability to make ISK, blame them for being capable of ISK management, blame them for their skills and witt, blame them for possesing T2 BPO, blame them for not undetstanding your whines...yeah, it's all their fault and bad game design.

this is the first post of yours i actually agree with ^^

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Yamota
Why respond to a thread you clearly dont understand?

---

 

It is always easier to blame the others, isn't?

Blame them for their ability to make ISK, blame them for being capable of ISK management, blame them for their skills and witt, blame them for possesing T2 BPO, blame them for not undetstanding your whines...yeah, it's all their fault and bad game design.

Noone is blaming anyone beside you and your pointless posts. The point of my thread is not so I can say that I am good or not but rather state that dying in Eve is kinda similar to Darkfall where you lose everything and as such often lead to people running around naked.

The question was, how does this affect the PvP? Does it make it more fun? If so for who, the few that are rich and can afford to lose their ships or the many that cannot afford that.

what a couple of you bum trolls fail to understand in this post is the normal joe shmoe who has to work 6 days a week 10 hour days and has a wife and kids dont have time like the guy who lives off his parents and sits at home all day playing games building up his bank box... its a game its not real life and its suppose to be equally fun for all not just the dork without a life who plays games 12-15 hours a day!  thats when it becomes unfair but again this is why eve and games like df aren't that successful at all those who work and have less time to put into a game isnt going to join a gaming society like those we will leave that to the fanboys and the gaming addicted trolls.

hate one me all you want imo you can lick my sweaty ball sac because thats truth

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Yamota
For example, someone in an T2 Cruiser and faction modules has a huge advantage over someone in a T1 Cruiser and T1 modules. Ofcourse he could just plain suck in PvP but so could the one in the T1 ship.

---

 

No matter how much you pimp your rock, t1 paper will always pop your ship.

In other words, what Gdemami said. Stop blaming everyone else when the only one who is to blame is you. You're responsible for learning how combat works, you're responsible for finding good isk sources, you're responsible for anything you do.

That is not the point. Eves economy is player driven so obviously there will always be a few that can do something that earns them alot of ISK and if more people did that then the value of that would drop due to inflation.

Example: There are quite few who can construct and sell T2 ships/equipments and hence that is very profitable. If more "figured out" how to do that then the profit would go down and it would cease to be profitable.

So point is that currently a select few has the ability to make alot of ISK at the expense of the many that cannot. An imo that makes the PvP less fun for the general population, not more fun.

Originally posted by Camthylion

what a couple of you bum trolls fail to understand in this post is the normal joe shmoe who has to work 6 days a week 10 hour days and has a wife and kids dont have time like the guy who lives off his parents and sits at home all day playing games building up his bank box... its a game its not real life and its suppose to be equally fun for all not just the dork without a life who plays games 12-15 hours a day!  thats when it becomes unfair but again this is why eve and games like df aren't that successful at all those who work and have less time to put into a game isnt going to join a gaming society like those we will leave that to the fanboys and the gaming addicted trolls.

 

hate one me all you want imo you can lick my sweaty ball sac because thats truth

I would not used the words you did but yes, that is what I am saying. 

I am working 60 hours per week and as such does not have endless time to spend  infront of computer and I would bet that most Eve players are like that.

The point real point I think OP missed was:

What better motivation could there be to work hard and  build your own success than getting obliterated by someone who already has?

There's a very slim chance that the guy running around in T2 uberness found his skills and Isky floating abandoned in a highsec asteroid field.

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Originally posted by Yamota
Noone is blaming anyone beside you and your pointless posts. The point of my thread is not so I can say that I am good or not but rather state that dying in Eve is kinda similar to Darkfall where you lose everything and as such often lead to people running around naked.
The question was, how does this affect the PvP? Does it make it more fun? If so for who, the few that are rich and can afford to lose their ships or the many that cannot afford that.

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Yeah, you don't blame anyone except the rich guys ruining the fun of the poor ones...

Ignorance is a bliss for you because that way you can whine about anything for unlimited period of time - you will never learn.

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Originally posted by Yamota
Example: There are quite few who can construct and sell T2 ships/equipments and hence that is very profitable. If more "figured out" how to do that then the profit would go down and it would cease to be profitable.
So point is that currently a select few has the ability to make alot of ISK at the expense of the many that cannot. An imo that makes the PvP less fun for the general population, not more fun.

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I see you have no idea how t2 production works. The barrier of entry to t2 production is so low that even i could enter it. The profits from t2 production have been going down since invention got introduced to the point that it is not profitable to produce certain items.

If you want to whine endlessly about things you don't understand, at least have the decency to do it in quiet. You have the same opportunity to get rich as everyone else. You have only yourself to blame if you fail at it.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Camthylion

what a couple of you bum trolls fail to understand in this post is the normal joe shmoe who has to work 6 days a week 10 hour days and has a wife and kids dont have time like the guy who lives off his parents and sits at home all day playing games building up his bank box... its a game its not real life and its suppose to be equally fun for all not just the dork without a life who plays games 12-15 hours a day!  thats when it becomes unfair but again this is why eve and games like df aren't that successful at all those who work and have less time to put into a game isnt going to join a gaming society like those we will leave that to the fanboys and the gaming addicted trolls.

 

hate one me all you want imo you can lick my sweaty ball sac because thats truth

I would not used the words you did but yes, that is what I am saying. 

I am working 60 hours per week and as such does not have endless time to spend  infront of computer and I would bet that most Eve players are like that.

That's a poor rationalization for why you aren't succeeding.  A lot of EvE players (myself included) have jobs with long hours and a wife and family.  Yet I have no problem making enough ISK to support my PvP activities and most of the ships I fly cost anywhere between 50-150 million ISK.  Figure out a better method of making ISK since whatever you're doing apparently isn't working.

Also what source are you basing your assumption that most players spend so much more time in game than you do?

 You guys are completely missing the point. You have turned this into something personal where you are "uber" and make alot of ISK because you know what you are doing and I do not. E-peening I guess would be common in a very competetive MMORPGs.

However this thread is not about me or you but rather the fact that in Eve there are few that has alot of cash (billions) and as such has a huge advantage in PvP, since if they die they can just get right back in, where as most others do not.

That is fine in real life but you know this is a game, right? So even though the system support the select few that can deem themselves "superior, as is evident in this very thread, it does not support the majority of players who wants to get into PvP but does not have the means (ISK) to do so.

That in turn restricts the PvP to few people where as a PvP focused game should instead try to include as many as possible. So what I am trying to say is that Eves PvP is exclusive (it excludes people who arent rich) rather than being inclusive so that even poor people can engage into it (besides being a tackler in a T1 frigate).

Originally posted by Yamota

 You guys are completely missing the point. You have turned this into something personal where you are "uber" and make alot of ISK because you know what you are doing and I do not. E-peening I guess would be common in a very competetive MMORPGs.

However this thread is not about me or you but rather the fact that in Eve there are few that has alot of cash (billions) and as such has a huge advantage in PvP, since if they die they can just get right back in, where as most others do not.

That is fine in real life but you know this is a game, right? So even though the system support the select few that can deem themselves "superior, as is evident in this very thread, it does not support the majority of players who wants to get into PvP but does not have the means (ISK) to do so.

That in turn restricts the PvP to few people where as a PvP focused game should instead try to include as many as possible. So what I am trying to say is that Eves PvP is exclusive (it excludes people who arent rich) rather than being inclusive so that even poor people can engage into it (besides being a tackler in a T1 frigate).

Would you please stop making excuses and passive-aggressive remarks at others for pointing out the flaws in your logic? And don't presume to speak for "the majority of players" - You speak only for yourself.

The systems and challenges that you are talking about are the same as every single other person in the game has. The system doesn't "support" anyone any more than anyone else. Every single player had to go through the same things you are talking about to get where they are now. No one is given preference. Those who have billions are where they are because they *made the effort to get there*. And you can, too, if you stop complaining and blaming it on everything else long enough to actually try.

As has been pointed out, people with lives, families, jobs, children and so on play Eve and do just fine.

It's been discussed many times that a player can get the skills and money they need to become competitive in PvP fairly quickly in Eve. You don't need "billions of isk" and "years of playing" to become competitive. You simply have to find a style you want to play, do the research to find out what skills and equipment you'll need and go for it. Find a good Corp to join who will help you with info and/or possibly even some starter money or equipment to get you going (I've met some people who were very generous in that regard) and before long you'll be in on the action.

It sounds to me like what you're asking for is for CCP to lower the curve to make it easier/faster for new players to "catch up" to the longer-playing, more experienced players- something I've seen time and again, in Eve's and other MMOs forums. "I want to be as capable as everyeone else, but I don't want to have to put in the same time or effort that they did, so I think it's unfair that I have to". Bollocks.

Frankly - and I say this as someone who has not gotten very far at all in Eve myself - I think that's a horrible idea. Why should all the effort of those people who have been playing, and are playing the game in an effort to develop their characters, be cheapened like that? They did it, so can you. No one is being given preference to be where they are... they *earned* it.

My suggestion: 
Either decide it's something you'd like to do, get into the game and enjoy the process. Or decide it's not a game that you would find enjoyable for what you want out of it, is not worth your time, and move on.

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Originally posted by Yamota
 You guys are completely missing the point. You have turned this into something personal where you are "uber" and make alot of ISK because you know what you are doing and I do not. E-peening I guess would be common in a very competetive MMORPGs.
However this thread is not about me or you but rather the fact that in Eve there are few that has alot of cash (billions) and as such has a huge advantage in PvP, since if they die they can just get right back in, where as most others do not.
That is fine in real life but you know this is a game, right? So even though the system support the select few that can deem themselves "superior, as is evident in this very thread, it does not support the majority of players who wants to get into PvP but does not have the means (ISK) to do so.
That in turn restricts the PvP to few people where as a PvP focused game should instead try to include as many as possible. So what I am trying to say is that Eves PvP is exclusive (it excludes people who arent rich) rather than being inclusive so that even poor people can engage into it (besides being a tackler in a T1 frigate).

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We are not missing anything, you are just trying to make a point about something you have no clue of...

If you do not have time to grind and don't have witt to make ISK efficiently, you should not be flying expensive ships and fits.
That is not restrictive mechanics, it is the rewarding those who deserves it.

EVE does not provide you with instant gratification or reward players regardless their skills. If that is what you need, then EVE is not a game for you.

No, I dont want CCP to the longer playing ones but rather what I am saying is that the current system where, in PvP, the winner takes all and the loser loses everything creates the same kind of syndrome as we see in other full loot PvP games. And that is people running around naked because they cannot afford losing everything each time they die.

In Eve this, imo, leads to fewer people getting involved into PvP and just stays in empire space.

So I am not sure what you are discussing about. Yes there are ways to get money and yes I can do it just as anyone else, but that is not the point.

As for me suggesting anything or wanting someone elses suggestion, again that is not what this thread is about. I am just observing the fact that the majority of player are in high sec space and that relatively few are engaging in PvP even though that is supposedly what this game is all about.

if you are looking for a fair play, just stop. there isn't any. people are different. some are smart. some are politicians. some are tacticians. some are all of it. most are part of it. some just fail at everything.

unless you can find fun in games completely based on randomness, you have to accept that certain games and/or gameplay styles will appeal to certain crowds. nothing wrong with this.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Yamota
 You guys are completely missing the point. You have turned this into something personal where you are "uber" and make alot of ISK because you know what you are doing and I do not. E-peening I guess would be common in a very competetive MMORPGs.
However this thread is not about me or you but rather the fact that in Eve there are few that has alot of cash (billions) and as such has a huge advantage in PvP, since if they die they can just get right back in, where as most others do not.
That is fine in real life but you know this is a game, right? So even though the system support the select few that can deem themselves "superior, as is evident in this very thread, it does not support the majority of players who wants to get into PvP but does not have the means (ISK) to do so.
That in turn restricts the PvP to few people where as a PvP focused game should instead try to include as many as possible. So what I am trying to say is that Eves PvP is exclusive (it excludes people who arent rich) rather than being inclusive so that even poor people can engage into it (besides being a tackler in a T1 frigate).

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We are not missing anything, you are just trying to make a point about something you have no clue of...

If you do not have time to grind and don't have witt to make ISK efficiently, you should not be flying expensive ships and fits.
That is not restrictive mechanics, it is the rewarding those who deserves it.

EVE does not provide you with instant gratification or reward players regardless their skills. If that is what you need, then EVE is not a game for you.

What is it I dont have a clue of?

That most people are in high sec space?

That death penalty in Eve is high (basically full loot type system) and that is the reason why most people are in high sec space?

That many people that do engage in PvP are flying cheap ships even though they have the skills for more expensive ones?

That the people that do have the money to lose expensive ships are flying around in ones and mopping the floor with others who do not (or do not have friends that are flying around in expensive ships)?

Please enlighten me what I have no clue about. I have been playing Eve on and of since the release in 2003 and even though I dont know many details, such as how to get rich and what not, the basic concept of the game has been the same.

Originally posted by spinner_vis

if you are looking for a fair play, just stop. there isn't any. people are different. some are smart. some are politicians. some are tacticians. some are all of it. most are part of it. some just fail at everything.

unless you can find fun in games completely based on randomness, you have to accept that certain games and/or gameplay styles will appeal to certain crowds. nothing wrong with this.

Nope, certainly not anything wrong with a game catering to a certain type of people. However I fail too see how a game that is supposedly focused on PvP actually discourages you from doing it with very high penalties for losing.

If lets say, american football, lead to the losing side losing everything they have how many would you think would engage in it?

Anyway, what you are saying is that Eve is not a fairplay game and I can accept that. But what is so good about it not being a fairplay game?

Eve is a game right?

Originally posted by Yamota

No, I dont want CCP to the longer playing ones but rather what I am saying is that the current system where, in PvP, the winner takes all and the loser loses everything creates the same kind of syndrome as we see in other full loot PvP games. And that is people running around naked because they cannot afford losing everything each time they die.

In Eve this, imo, leads to fewer people getting involved into PvP and just stays in empire space.

So I am not sure what you are discussing about. Yes there are ways to get money and yes I can do it just as anyone else, but that is not the point.

As for me suggesting anything or wanting someone elses suggestion, again that is not what this thread is about. I am just observing the fact that the majority of player are in high sec space and that relatively few are engaging in PvP even though that is supposedly what this game is all about.

What syndrome? That's the whole point of competitive, open PvP, especially in Eve... It's not supposed to be "fair and even to everyone". Those who want to get into the action and become big players are perfectly capable of doing so, fully knowing what the challenges will be. It's the same in any open PvP MMO.

You realize Eve has been running for many years now, right? It's not some new MMO that just launched last month and hasn't proven itself. Despite your nay-saying of the system it has, it has steadily *grown* a population of people drawn to it *because* of the way it's set up. They *like* the harshness of the PvP.

Eve *has* proven itself as a MMO that a steady niche of players (ie. those playing and enjoying it) enjoy playing. It has done well enough to allow CCP to continue expanding it, they're adding in Ambulation (walking in stations, etc), and they're launching a FPS spin-off set in the same universe. I'd say the facts speak far louder than your "opinion", and that Eve is doing pretty damn well for them the way it's set up.

Honestly, I think it's obvious that Eve just isn't the game for you, and suggest you look for something else.