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Originally posted by Banquetto

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Originally posted by tanoril

What game had quest indicators above the quest givers before WoW?  I can't remember any.

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Diablo II did, didn't it?
 

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Yep.

You know blizz developed both right?

The talent tree in WoW is extremely similar to the skill trees in Diablo 2, too.

Blizzard goes with what works. Plain as that. They build, improve, and polish.

You guys can blame Blizzard all you want for making the most polished MMO around, but you cannot blame them for spawning the thousands of clones that followed suit. It's the customers you should be blaming.

Stop throwing these companies money and they'll slowly die off. If you're going to play a themepark level cap raiding game, play the best.

Originally posted by ncryan10

You know blizz developed both right?

That was kinda my point. That while people like to say WoW was a ripoff of EQ or AC2 or whatever, the elements that are most similar to other games are the ones that were re-used from their own earlier games. 

Originally posted by Banquetto

Originally posted by ncryan10

You know blizz developed both right?

That was kinda my point. That while people like to say WoW was a ripoff of EQ or AC2 or whatever, the elements that are most similar to other games are the ones that were re-used from their own earlier games. 

Wow man, they reused an exclamation over an NPC. That is totally amazing!

Originally posted by caalem 

Wow man, they reused an exclamation over an NPC. That is totally amazing!

Would you prefer the three-pane-with-dependency-tree talent system? That's a more core mechanic that was very similar in WoW to Diablo II. And obviously it was an attractive system, or else QOL wouldn't have made a 100% accurate clone of it for Alganon.

Originally posted by Dethnoble

He wasn't saying that a level 25 was going to be able to kill a level 50 mob, he was saying that a level 25 who has their studies built up would be more effective and stronger than someone who powergames to level 25.  

 

It's sad really.  People like you who cannot comprehend what people say then go off and run your mouth, saying this or that when you have no clue what you are talking about. 

Oh really? He didn't say that? Well lets see here shall we?

Massively: "Alganon's Studies system allows offline character advancement for those players who may not have the time to play every day. How does this system balance with those hardcore players who will be there several hours a day?"

DA: "It rewards players not just for playing, but subscribing as well. A casual gamer who has been playing Alganon for a year (and managing their studies) will have access to things a hardcore gamer who reaches max level in just a month simply cannot. Those who have been playing Alganon longer will simply have a stronger support basis than those who have not. But it doesn't mean new players can't dive right into studies and planning the growth of their character out beyond class, skills and abilities."

Also, I never said David Allen said that a level 25 could kill a level 50, I said David Allen said the benefit would be better than a hardcore player -- which it will not be and is what he said. He doesn't even know how his study system works.

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by TheDarzin

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I don't understand what the big deal is. Blizzard pretty much copied everything from the Warhammer Universe and called it Warcraft. So why the uproar about a game that not many people will play anyway ?

 

Didn't you also say that "WoW stole their UI" as well in a previous post? If you aren't interested in the game, perhaps you had move along as well? Also, whether Blizzard stole everything from Warhammer isn't the debate here. Warhammer essentially took all of it's ideas from Tolkien, which were borrowed from various places including Wagner's Opera Der Ring des Nibelungen. He borrowed a lot from Norse and Germanic mythology.

The point being, it's one thing to borrow and another to just steal. Alganon stole every idea from somewhere. The two unique parts of the game "study system" and "the library" were taken from Eve and LotRO respectively.

I am sure right now, you could name a dozen RPGs that each use a different UI, different character building system, different quest style, different skill system. The choice to ripoff 90% of your game from the most popular game of it's generation is not a smart move.

 

lol wow stole all its systems if we follow your standards. This game is as any other recently made. it sucks... Wow is a shit game. Plain and simple. I recieved two close beta keys for this game but thought it would be to much effort to even dl it.

ths game is a pass.

LOL! Seriously tho. Don't make more of a fool out of yourself then you already are.

WoW might have ripped off sertain Lore aspects from Warhammer, who ripped off from LOTR and tolkien ripped off from Norse and Germanic lore... blablabla yadayadayada.

The Alganon devs have litterly STOLE the UI interface from WoW and incorporated it within their game (as some bloggers already showed proof of finding same UI elements and code in Alganon UI as in WoW UI) and then keep continui'ing to claim that they handmade the UI. While it CLEARLY ISN'T!

They are lucky their game is going to FAIL misserably anyway and so the Blizzard laywers not going to be bothering spending any money sueing these con artists.

We can bash and burn Blizzard all we want. At least their devs designed and coded everything themselves!

Cheers

I think it's kinda silly that the game is attacked that much.

Sure, they copied lots of stuff from WoW. But they are also right saying, that if they try to make an UI whichs main purpose is to be different from other games, they might end up with an UI that is unplayable with. And even if the UI would be playable with, the differences to UIs from games people know would confuse them.
I mean you know the MMORPG gamers who refuse to read quest descriptions and prefer instead to spam channels crying for help. Do you think those people, who make up a majority of a great many MMOs populations, would be able to handle an UI that is quite different from those they know? The gamers would simply randomly click on buttons in confusion, smashing their keyboard and facerolling in hopes of somehow getting the game to do what they want it to.

That some games develope interesting stuff that from then on gets copied as well is normal too. Like Dune2 as RTS had no way to select multiple units at once. C&C introduced that, and from then on the majority of RTS copied that feature. And that is a good thing obviously.

Also, it's not like the guys from Alganon try to create a bad game. They have graphics artists and programmers and whatnot who all try to do a good job in creating a game that's fun to play. Why trash them that much? In the end, if I would find out that the game is fun (even though I'm normally not into these MMORPGs) I wouldn't care the slightest bit what is copied how much from where. The only important thing would be if I have fun playing the game and if I think it's worth the subscription cost.

Of course you can also create a completly new and incredible MMORPG from cratch. But that costs millions of $$$ and years and years of development, and most companies don't have these resources. If all companies wold concentrate on making such games, we'd have 1 new MMORPG every few years. They might be great, but I don't mind smaller companies at giving a shot in creating a game that's fun.

Note that I don't want to say that Alganon is a great game, or that it's bad or anything, I didn't play it yet, and I probably won't, since I've fun with FE and don't want to try anything else right now. I just think this game-thrashing is simply ridiculous. It's the opposite of the hype of WAR, AoC and Aion. Many MMORPG gamers seem to be like herd of stampeding beasts that sometimes rush mindlessly in frenzy in one direction, and then again a moment later in the other direction.

Originally posted by maji

I think it's kinda silly that the game is attacked that much.

Sure, they copied lots of stuff from WoW. But they are also right saying, that if they try to make an UI whichs main purpose is to be different from other games, they might end up with an UI that is unplayable with. And even if the UI would be playable with, the differences to UIs from games people know would confuse them.
I mean you know the MMORPG gamers who refuse to read quest descriptions and prefer instead to spam channels crying for help. Do you think those people, who make up a majority of a great many MMOs populations, would be able to handle an UI that is quite different from those they know? The gamers would simply randomly click on buttons in confusion, smashing their keyboard and facerolling in hopes of somehow getting the game to do what they want it to.

That some games develope interesting stuff that from then on gets copied as well is normal too. Like Dune2 as RTS had no way to select multiple units at once. C&C introduced that, and from then on the majority of RTS copied that feature. And that is a good thing obviously.

Also, it's not like the guys from Alganon try to create a bad game. They have graphics artists and programmers and whatnot who all try to do a good job in creating a game that's fun to play. Why trash them that much? In the end, if I would find out that the game is fun (even though I'm normally not into these MMORPGs) I wouldn't care the slightest bit what is copied how much from where. The only important thing would be if I have fun playing the game and if I think it's worth the subscription cost.

 

Of course you can also create a completly new and incredible MMORPG from cratch. But that costs millions of $$$ and years and years of development, and most companies don't have these resources. If all companies wold concentrate on making such games, we'd have 1 new MMORPG every few years. They might be great, but I don't mind smaller companies at giving a shot in creating a game that's fun.

 

Note that I don't want to say that Alganon is a great game, or that it's bad or anything, I didn't play it yet, and I probably won't, since I've fun with FE and don't want to try anything else right now. I just think this game-thrashing is simply ridiculous. It's the opposite of the hype of WAR, AoC and Aion. Many MMORPG gamers seem to be like herd of stampeding beasts that sometimes rush mindlessly in frenzy in one direction, and then again a moment later in the other direction.

1) You haven't played it.

2) Bad Games deserve bad press

3) It is an opinion site, and sadly if you post anything bad about the game in the game or on the official forums you will find yourself an ex-member of the Beta Community.

http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3589-state-of-the-game/

Ahh fun read...

"Most players who complain about Alganon's similarities to WoW actually like the game"

Sigh, they really don't get it?

Originally posted by TheDarzin

I have no clue what you actually wrote -- except that WoW sucks. WoW didn't steal half the things they are accused of stealing, but most people would rather go on facetious remarks and hearsay. It's the way the world works, sadly though Alganon took far too many things from WoW for me to forgive them. Then again, I am sort of an elitist, just like someone coming on an MMO board to complain about the biggest MMO in the world.

Uhm, it is a well known fact that WoW is based on Everquest with its system & core designed being an almost full copy of Everquest.  Maybe you were not aware, but a few of EQ's players came to Blizzard to create the concept of a Warcraft MMO.

Warcraft itself is a copy of the Warhammer universe.

As of recently, Blizzard straight out copied Warhammer Online's concepts, such as achievements aka Tome unlocks, XP from BGs, ability to queue for BGs anywhere, WG being open world PvP aka RvR.  I'm just wondering how long before they rip off public quests.

Let's be honest, Blizzard is the rip-off master and WoW was created as Everquest thrown into the Warcraft universe and made easier.

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Uhm, it is a well known fact that WoW is based on Everquest with its system & core designed being an almost full copy of Everquest.  Maybe you were not aware, but a few of EQ's players came to Blizzard to create the concept of a Warcraft MMO.

WoW is about as far from EQ as a game could possibly be, and the two players that ended up developing for Blizzard were two of the biggest EQ forum trolls in history.

Not the best example.

Warcraft itself is a copy of the Warhammer universe.

As of recently, Blizzard straight out copied Warhammer Online's concepts, such as achievements aka Tome unlocks, XP from BGs, ability to queue for BGs anywhere, WG being open world PvP aka RvR.  I'm just wondering how long before they rip off public quests.

XP from BGs was a beta feature that was removed and then re-added.

WG was around long before WAR even released.

Let's be honest, Blizzard is the rip-off master and WoW was created as Everquest thrown into the Warcraft universe and made easier.

So wrong that it's not even funny.

Blizzard took the features they liked from their completion, added their own features and challenged some of the standard conventions such as lowering the graphic quality in order to run on more systems and making the game more user friendly. Their product raised the bar and completely disrupted the marketplace: two hallmarks of innovation. To claim they “copied” and didn’t innovate is pure ignorance.

Alganon is currently a poor imitation of a subset of the WoW 2004 features. It brings nothing new to the gaming world and is a step backward. In my view, they choose the worst possible business plan by deliberately choosing not to innovate. One of the greatest strengths of an indie game company is being able to innovate and try something new. Instead it’s like they are standing on a street corner trying to sell me an imitation Rolex at authentic Rolex prices. Only the naïve are going to fall for that scam.

If they had tried to innovate, tried to be a little bit creative, then I would have a lot more sympathy for them and might even subscribe.
 

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by TheDarzin

I have no clue what you actually wrote -- except that WoW sucks. WoW didn't steal half the things they are accused of stealing, but most people would rather go on facetious remarks and hearsay. It's the way the world works, sadly though Alganon took far too many things from WoW for me to forgive them. Then again, I am sort of an elitist, just like someone coming on an MMO board to complain about the biggest MMO in the world.

Uhm, it is a well known fact that WoW is based on Everquest with its system & core designed being an almost full copy of Everquest.  Maybe you were not aware, but a few of EQ's players came to Blizzard to create the concept of a Warcraft MMO.

Warcraft itself is a copy of the Warhammer universe.

As of recently, Blizzard straight out copied Warhammer Online's concepts, such as achievements aka Tome unlocks, XP from BGs, ability to queue for BGs anywhere, WG being open world PvP aka RvR.  I'm just wondering how long before they rip off public quests.

Let's be honest, Blizzard is the rip-off master and WoW was created as Everquest thrown into the Warcraft universe and made easier.

Actually WoW has a lot in common with diablo and diablo 2 which also have a lot in common with everquest....... And no actually they had a preview of what wintergrasp was going to be like well over a year before WAR released ov even started the RvR hype train.

Yea Warcraft is inspired by Warhammer which is inspired by Tolken who was inspired by Various Northern Euopean legends.......

Achivments is a lot more Xbox live than WARs unlocks, Xp from BGs has been BEGGED for since they were released, the ability to queue anywhere has been discussed for quite a while. PQs? Why would they want to rip those off?

I mean, PQs are epic in the 1 out of 10 times you actually have the right number of people. Too few people and its an exercise in fustration too many and its just pointless.

I woulden't say Blizzard is the rip off master. Blizzard is the "Lets take this general concept and make it even better" master.

yea an email for alganon in my inbox and i had to cut this oout of the email

Designed from scratch and based in a uniquely created world, the initial goal in designing Alganon is to provide "Fun game play with unlimited growth in a massive world of immersion and interaction".

who just laughed "snickers"

The bullshit that poured out of David Allen's mouth could pile up into mountains. 

I laughed at this

Leaked Expansion List

Alganon: The Flaming Crusaders
-Explore the war-torn world of Draelor
-Battle evil Daemons
-Defeat Flaming Army
-Battle in Dark Citadel, The Nose, Snakeshrine Cavern, Zil'Amun, The Tower of Kuzar and Starwell Plateau
-Get NeitherDrakes!

Alganon: Wrath of the Icy Queen
-Explore the icy continent of Northend
-Get Icy Skeledragons
-Defeat the Scrooge!
-Battle in Uldiia, Trial of the Knights and Icetiara Citadel
-NEW CLASS: Death Warrior

Alganon: Catastrophe
-Face the Deathbreath
-Alganon is changed forever
-Face Flame, Rock, Water and Wind powers!
-Play Werewolves and Goblins!
 

Lots of people diss WoW.

I played it for 4 years, so I would be a hypocrite to diss it.  Nothing has ever been wrong with the game itself.  The game is polished, the lore is fantastic, and the graphics are still good enough to attract however many million people that still play.

It's the community that makes it suck.  It's the "me first" and "DIAF" atmosphere that makes it suck.  That's no fault of Blizzard, except perhaps that their user base got so large that they couldn't keep the forums/character names/chat channels in check.

As a mature adult who plays MMOs for leisure fun, I ended up quitting WoW after 4 years because the community become so septic and horrible that I couldn't stand even logging in anymore.

Every game copies off of any other game.  WoW did what they did in a phenomenal fashion, but the community is horrid.

Further proof that all MMOs, and MMO forums should be 21+ only.

You might disagree with that (especially if you're an immature kid), and talk about how that would hurt the sales.. but I guarantee hundreds of thousands of adults would play the games if they found out that kids weren't allowed to play anymore, which would make up for the revenue loss, and dramatically improve the gaming experience.

Originally posted by Holgranth

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by TheDarzin

I have no clue what you actually wrote -- except that WoW sucks. WoW didn't steal half the things they are accused of stealing, but most people would rather go on facetious remarks and hearsay. It's the way the world works, sadly though Alganon took far too many things from WoW for me to forgive them. Then again, I am sort of an elitist, just like someone coming on an MMO board to complain about the biggest MMO in the world.

Uhm, it is a well known fact that WoW is based on Everquest with its system & core designed being an almost full copy of Everquest.  Maybe you were not aware, but a few of EQ's players came to Blizzard to create the concept of a Warcraft MMO.

Warcraft itself is a copy of the Warhammer universe.

As of recently, Blizzard straight out copied Warhammer Online's concepts, such as achievements aka Tome unlocks, XP from BGs, ability to queue for BGs anywhere, WG being open world PvP aka RvR.  I'm just wondering how long before they rip off public quests.

Let's be honest, Blizzard is the rip-off master and WoW was created as Everquest thrown into the Warcraft universe and made easier.

 

Actually WoW has a lot in common with diablo and diablo 2 which also have a lot in common with everquest....... And no actually they had a preview of what wintergrasp was going to be like well over a year before WAR released ov even started the RvR hype train.

Yea Warcraft is inspired by Warhammer which is inspired by Tolken who was inspired by Various Northern Euopean legends.......

Achivments is a lot more Xbox live than WARs unlocks, Xp from BGs has been BEGGED for since they were released, the ability to queue anywhere has been discussed for quite a while. PQs? Why would they want to rip those off?

I mean, PQs are epic in the 1 out of 10 times you actually have the right number of people. Too few people and its an exercise in fustration too many and its just pointless.

I woulden't say Blizzard is the rip off master. Blizzard is the "Lets take this general concept and make it even better" master.

And Mythic (the people who made WAR) had a better grasp on PvP and RVR with Dark age of Camelot before WoW even came out, much less anything about wintergrasp.

Originally posted by Chamberlain

Lots of people diss WoW.

I played it for 4 years, so I would be a hypocrite to diss it.  Nothing has ever been wrong with the game itself.  The game is polished, the lore is fantastic, and the graphics are still good enough to attract however many million people that still play.

It's the community that makes it suck.  It's the "me first" and "DIAF" atmosphere that makes it suck.  That's no fault of Blizzard, except perhaps that their user base got so large that they couldn't keep the forums/character names/chat channels in check.

As a mature adult who plays MMOs for leisure fun, I ended up quitting WoW after 4 years because the community become so septic and horrible that I couldn't stand even logging in anymore.

Every game copies off of any other game.  WoW did what they did in a phenomenal fashion, but the community is horrid.

Further proof that all MMOs, and MMO forums should be 21+ only.

You might disagree with that (especially if you're an immature kid), and talk about how that would hurt the sales.. but I guarantee hundreds of thousands of adults would play the games if they found out that kids weren't allowed to play anymore, which would make up for the revenue loss, and dramatically improve the gaming experience.

No offense but I smell a bitter ex fan, and to be perfectly honest I also smell a classic burn out and blame the community.

 In my experience ALL internet communitys area bout the same, trade chat (and barrens chat) on most WoW servers have ALWAYS been volitile.

The moron ratio remains about the same. You either tune them out and only socialize with those you like or you go insane.
 

As far as the age thing goes yea there are alot of annoying kids, but there are just as many if not more whiney, demanding, "me first" types over 21.

Originally posted by Chamberlain

Originally posted by Holgranth

Originally posted by Hydroblunt

Originally posted by TheDarzin

I have no clue what you actually wrote -- except that WoW sucks. WoW didn't steal half the things they are accused of stealing, but most people would rather go on facetious remarks and hearsay. It's the way the world works, sadly though Alganon took far too many things from WoW for me to forgive them. Then again, I am sort of an elitist, just like someone coming on an MMO board to complain about the biggest MMO in the world.

Uhm, it is a well known fact that WoW is based on Everquest with its system & core designed being an almost full copy of Everquest.  Maybe you were not aware, but a few of EQ's players came to Blizzard to create the concept of a Warcraft MMO.

Warcraft itself is a copy of the Warhammer universe.

As of recently, Blizzard straight out copied Warhammer Online's concepts, such as achievements aka Tome unlocks, XP from BGs, ability to queue for BGs anywhere, WG being open world PvP aka RvR.  I'm just wondering how long before they rip off public quests.

Let's be honest, Blizzard is the rip-off master and WoW was created as Everquest thrown into the Warcraft universe and made easier.

 

Actually WoW has a lot in common with diablo and diablo 2 which also have a lot in common with everquest....... And no actually they had a preview of what wintergrasp was going to be like well over a year before WAR released ov even started the RvR hype train.

Yea Warcraft is inspired by Warhammer which is inspired by Tolken who was inspired by Various Northern Euopean legends.......

Achivments is a lot more Xbox live than WARs unlocks, Xp from BGs has been BEGGED for since they were released, the ability to queue anywhere has been discussed for quite a while. PQs? Why would they want to rip those off?

I mean, PQs are epic in the 1 out of 10 times you actually have the right number of people. Too few people and its an exercise in fustration too many and its just pointless.

I woulden't say Blizzard is the rip off master. Blizzard is the "Lets take this general concept and make it even better" master.

 

And Mythic (the people who made WAR) had a better grasp on PvP and RVR with Dark age of Camelot before WoW even came out, much less anything about wintergrasp.

PvP and RvR is totally unique and was never done before DAoC. PvP is an extension of FPS games in MMOs. Period. Companies simply realized that PvP was an essential part of any game, because an AI can never fully emulate a human. Second, PvP was not done by Mythic before Blizzard. You may want to think about the history of gaming a little bit, but try. Think about games in general (PvP doesn't mean a single character vs. a single character -- though sometimes it does.) and tell me what games Blizzard made before DAoC that featured PvP action.

RvR is just another name for Faction vs Faction. just look at Warhammer online.