FFXIV doesn't need to release before Cataclysm. Square Enix isn't trying to be the next "WoW Killer". FFXI is completely different than the WoW clones and typical quest grinder MMOs. And thats exactly why FFXI is as successful as it is. Square will be aiming at their core audience like they did with FFXI, and if it catches on more than that, thats great.

Building a more niche game aimed at a couple hundred thousand instead of trying to steal Blizzards pot of gold, which no MMO will ever do, is the way to go. Build a foundation to have a steady income over the course of many years. SE knows this. Until other companies realize it the genre will continue to grow stale.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

 

1. Players aren't forced to repeat old content. They can choose to quit the game once they've had their fill of it.

2. A die hard WoW player is going to buy Cataclysm no matter what.

I think those who like WoW, but aren't diehard fans that'll buy every expansion just because, will buy FFXIV no matter when Cataclysm releases, but only if FFXIV interests them. If a person is curious about Cataclsym or FFXIV, it won't matter when it's released, because they'll buy it just to check it out.

For example, I bought Fallen Earth, Champions Online, and AION within 1 week of each other, because I was curious about all of them. This was after recently rusubbing to WoW, only to quit 2 weeks later to try out these new games. So if a curious person like me manages to try out new things, doesn't it stand to reason that other people will too? I'm sure games and expansions releasing around each other has some influence, but don't forget there's plenty of people who aren't influence by such things and will buy them all out of plain curiousity.

No it does not stand to reason that, b/c you make that choice, others will.

Buying 4 online games in a row, to me, is rather uneventful.  To really enjoy an MMO you do need some initial warming up, to get to know the game and decide if its worth staying sub.  That has to be done within a month.  Unless I decide to open the boxes one by one, assuming I will end each sub within the first month, buying 3 and renewing 1 sub sounds stupid.

Actually if I expect myself to end sub in the first month, and hence the need to buy another game as well, I see no point buying the first game.  I never buy more than 1 online game at any time, tho i do maintain multiples subs, if the few games are both interesting.  I buy new online games only if I plan to cancel a current sub, or feel that I need to back off a bit from one of my current subs.  That is, hunting for replacement.

That is me.  I do not try to suggest that "it stands to reason that others will too".

If FFXIV follows the tradition of its predecessor and provides a rich, group based gameplay model then they'll draw an audience that is more of a niche (like EVE does) that will stay with them.

Best for SquareE to make sure their game is the best it can be and it will find the audience it needs.

But they'll never draw WOW numbers unless they go the solo friendly, more casual route and even then, I think Blizz has that market locked down tight.

A woman I work with is a great example, she's been playing WOW for 2 years now, and has gaming set-ups for her and her 2 nieces.  I say something to her like,, FFXIV is coming out next year and her eyes sort of glaze over and she goes "Huh?"

No, she won't be leaving WOW any time soon and she's very representative of a large portion of the subscriber base.

Originally posted by Kyleran

.....But they'll never draw WOW numbers unless they go the solo friendly, more casual route and even then, I think Blizz has that market locked down tight.....

As I understand it, this is the direction they are taking FF14, more casual friendly and solo-able, though i expect combat will still favor group play...though i don't think it will make much of a dent on WoW either. I'll still play it though /shrug

Nah, much better to scoop up bored WoW players a few months after the Catalysm got released,  otherwise they risk to get WoW players that are just waiting for the expansion. No need to rush. I have no doubt Catalysm will sell well but the buyers most of all be the ones that are active WoW players already.

Most important of all is that they make sure to finish and not rush Final Fantasy XIV and give it enough content instead of relying on grinding to make players stay. WoW has such massive turnover rate these days compared to WoW classic when new realms nearly opened every months because players didn´t quit, so there will hardly be any lack of players for FFXIV. And new players will find WoW increasingly expensive compared to just any other mmorpg, since none of the expansions are free and all are needed (not to mention the installation time).

So the devs of FFXIV shall focus to make a good game and not let Activision dictate any deadline.

 If released before, they should at least have strong advertising to keep the name on peoples minds after they burnout quickly on re-hashed WoW content.  if after,  just climb over all the hype.  Either way, I don't think alot of the FFXIV community even wants a majority of bored WoW players flooding over to FFXIV, but I'm sure SE wouldn't mind.

There is a window, they've stated they want (at least) 6 months of beta testing, so just start a 6 month timer whenever they finally start the first public beta :)  Currently it is looking like early Q3 next year (best case)....

With the new FF game I recommend allowing players to use time cards if you want to get everyone in the game.  Some of us still prefer to not use them and some of us just plain can't get one and yes the really should try to beat Blizzard by getting this out before Cataclysm as they may gain some people.  In fact players that are behind with WOW and feel they are not where they want to be in the game might jump ship to the new FF.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

IMO WoW players are "NOT" real MMO players, WoW players are the same as console players, people with the instant Glory mind set, I know It sounds harsh but Its true.

I also played WoW for 5 years, but also played AC,Eq1 and all of the old MMOS that made MMOS a World and not a video game, you see WoW came along and took MMOS and made them main steam bring with them main stream gamers and by doing so ruined the mmo market making game dev. jump on the banwagon to make a fast buck, the old school MMO games made MMO Worlds for roleplayers where everyhing was a time sink and earned (think fantasy life) and though not fun for alot people there where those that loved it, but we know money talks so MMO games took over MMO Worlds with the birth of WoW.

SO let WoW's Cat come, no matter what you do blizzard will be on top and its because they invented the MMO game and to many WoW is that quick fix for the low selfesteamed instant glory junkies, and in todays fast paced world thats what most players want and that is what sells, think about It, most if not 75% of all WoW players today where and are those people that where hooked to AoL chat rooms or facebook games, they want and got there fast fix of entertanment. (LOL omg I set my self up on that remark, O well It's true)

Although WoW invented the MMO game they sure as hell didn't invent the MMO  World the real fans love and have been playing sence Mud.

FF14 is one of those MMO Worlds that has its core loyal group just like Eve,EQ, Linage,UO,AC,DaoC to name a few, to me those are the worlds that got us hooked in the first place so who cares if WoW number 1, they should be, after all they made a kick ass video game, but not a MMO World.

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

Lol the Problem is you can Group in Wow. But there is no point for most of the game, because its so easy to solo. Solo Friendly is Honestly the worst thing to happen to MMO's. Sure there should be a few easy games like WOW, But the Retarted numbers of them beeing made for solo people is Disgusting.

And NO. You cannot make a game Solo and Group friendly... Unless its Diffrent areas/Zones. Both cannot Exist next to each other because there would be no point for people in Groups, Or it would screw the Solo people because they would just Agrro all the good/ Quest/ High value Mobs and leave you nothing, or the crap thats Either to hard to kill so isent good Exp/hour, Or isent worth killing because its a gnat.

So while I guess in a Zone game you could make it Zone "A" is Solo, Zone "B" is Group, they can NEVER exist peacefully in the same area. Lots of MMO's to Prove this point.

I disagree, so far we have mainly seen games come out before a WoW expansion (I not sure whether to put Aion pre-Cat or Post-WotLK as it was released nearly a year ahead) and the box sales do decent but they can't hold onto a large playerbase (compared to the box sales).

So, I say release a couple of months after cat, people will be getting a bit bored of the content & there will be no hype building regarding another expansion (fan speculation on what it will be next doesn't count). I think 2010 may be the year where we finally see a dent in WoW's subs, not because Blizzard doesn't deserve it but I feel if a story based game becomes successful we may move away from the stasis condition this genra is in.

Not really, Wowtards don't like FF11 usually because you actually have to work for your stuff and you can't do most of the game alone. I just hope they don't wowafiy FF14 too much I like how FF11 requires some skill in combat (you can really tell an idiot fast in a exp party) I like the games community, its why I might be playing it again. Lets be honest here, I doubt any other mmorpg will get as many subs as Ezmode wow. For them to even try to compete sub wise is stupid, Mind you there are some free to play mmorpg's out there that are imo better than WoW gameplay wise. I just wish game devs would stop copying wow's gameplay and mechanics and make something orignal or at least try. Alganon, Runes of Magic, Allods all are YAWC (Yet Another Wow Clone). I think they just see wow's success and go "Well that works lets copy the papa monkey for our game!" <-- this is what I hope SE doesn't do with FF14, if they do I'll be very dissapointed. I already plan to pre-order ff14. I just hope they do a internation release insted of giving it to the rest of the world a year later. Which then pisses off the japanese players when we get caught up to them in 25% of the time it took them to get there. Stuff it took them a year to do in FF11 when the US ver came out we were at the same point after 2-3 months. On my server I was one of the first level 50 North American players on my server. When it first came out. Damn Limit break 1 took me near a week to do, bad drop rates -_-, its lot better now they upped the drop rates substantally for those items.

Also as someone said, FF11/14 cater more to the hardcore mmorpg player, insted of the ezmode wanting casuals, People who want more of a challenge out of their game should go with ff11/14 IMO.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

 

Lol the Problem is you can Group in Wow. But there is no point for most of the game, because its so easy to solo. Solo Friendly is Honestly the worst thing to happen to MMO's. Sure there should be a few easy games like WOW, But the Retarted numbers of them beeing made for solo people is Disgusting.

And NO. You cannot make a game Solo and Group friendly... Unless its Diffrent areas/Zones. Both cannot Exist next to each other because there would be no point for people in Groups, Or it would screw the Solo people because they would just Agrro all the good/ Quest/ High value Mobs and leave you nothing, or the crap thats Either to hard to kill so isent good Exp/hour, Or isent worth killing because its a gnat.

So while I guess in a Zone game you could make it Zone "A" is Solo, Zone "B" is Group, they can NEVER exist peacefully in the same area. Lots of MMO's to Prove this point.

All indications are that Guildleves are what they want you to use to "level" in FFXIV and that they'll scale with party size.  So you certainly can do both (hmph, sometimes I think I'm the only one who reads what the Devs are saying about the game).
 

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

 

Lol the Problem is you can Group in Wow. But there is no point for most of the game, because its so easy to solo. Solo Friendly is Honestly the worst thing to happen to MMO's. Sure there should be a few easy games like WOW, But the Retarted numbers of them beeing made for solo people is Disgusting.

And NO. You cannot make a game Solo and Group friendly... Unless its Diffrent areas/Zones. Both cannot Exist next to each other because there would be no point for people in Groups, Or it would screw the Solo people because they would just Agrro all the good/ Quest/ High value Mobs and leave you nothing, or the crap thats Either to hard to kill so isent good Exp/hour, Or isent worth killing because its a gnat.

So while I guess in a Zone game you could make it Zone "A" is Solo, Zone "B" is Group, they can NEVER exist peacefully in the same area. Lots of MMO's to Prove this point.

All indications are that Guildleves are what they want you to use to "level" in FFXIV and that they'll scale with party size.  So you certainly can do both (hmph, sometimes I think I'm the only one who reads what the Devs are saying about the game).
 

And you missed the point of my post Entirely....

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

 

Lol the Problem is you can Group in Wow. But there is no point for most of the game, because its so easy to solo. Solo Friendly is Honestly the worst thing to happen to MMO's. Sure there should be a few easy games like WOW, But the Retarted numbers of them beeing made for solo people is Disgusting.

And NO. You cannot make a game Solo and Group friendly... Unless its Diffrent areas/Zones. Both cannot Exist next to each other because there would be no point for people in Groups, Or it would screw the Solo people because they would just Agrro all the good/ Quest/ High value Mobs and leave you nothing, or the crap thats Either to hard to kill so isent good Exp/hour, Or isent worth killing because its a gnat.

So while I guess in a Zone game you could make it Zone "A" is Solo, Zone "B" is Group, they can NEVER exist peacefully in the same area. Lots of MMO's to Prove this point.

All indications are that Guildleves are what they want you to use to "level" in FFXIV and that they'll scale with party size.  So you certainly can do both (hmph, sometimes I think I'm the only one who reads what the Devs are saying about the game).
 

 

And you missed the point of my post Entirely....

Did I miss the part where you mentioned how the Devs said Guildleves scale?  Or the part where you mentioned the Guidleves are kinda like instanced content?  Or the part where you realized that if enemies dynamically spawn for your party size then your concerns become moot?
 

I didn't realize I had to connect all the dots for you.

 What your saying about how you cant have both is untrue. You cant have it perfectly balanced, wich is true, but this game will lean more one way then the other.

 To have quests built for both and have soloing take longer, making you fight weaker mobs then a group would, and get generaly alot less per hour then a group.  you need to make grouping not be a demand, but the most efficent and a hell of alot quicker way to level.

honestly i have faith that SE wont make this a solo EZ-fest, they said they wanted to appeal to the FFXI crowd first, wich would obvoiusly mean they want group play to be the main selling point.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Lexin

Originally posted by bloodaxes

FFXI had on 500k population few years ago even if the game comes after wow's expansion I'm 90% sure those that enjoyed FFXI will give it a try plus there's those that want to try new mmos because are bored of the one they are playing.

So in other words nothing to worry about.

 

As a FFXI vet I will give this game a go but if it leans far to the casual play no dice I wont keep playing and will just give up MMO's since all games now lean solo play which is no fun at all.

 

I would love to see this game released before Cataclysm because well there really is nothing on the MMO market worth playing I will be playing APB as long as they don't go the RMT route which from what I seen game play wise should keep me entertained for awhile. Might have to get back into FFXI again shortly been on break for a few months.

From what I can tell the game will be "solo friendly" but also be group friendly.  So you can do things whichever way you want them.  Very different from a lot of other games where doing things in a group can be punished (like WoW, for instance).
 

 

Lol the Problem is you can Group in Wow. But there is no point for most of the game, because its so easy to solo. Solo Friendly is Honestly the worst thing to happen to MMO's. Sure there should be a few easy games like WOW, But the Retarted numbers of them beeing made for solo people is Disgusting.

And NO. You cannot make a game Solo and Group friendly... Unless its Diffrent areas/Zones. Both cannot Exist next to each other because there would be no point for people in Groups, Or it would screw the Solo people because they would just Agrro all the good/ Quest/ High value Mobs and leave you nothing, or the crap thats Either to hard to kill so isent good Exp/hour, Or isent worth killing because its a gnat.

So while I guess in a Zone game you could make it Zone "A" is Solo, Zone "B" is Group, they can NEVER exist peacefully in the same area. Lots of MMO's to Prove this point.

All indications are that Guildleves are what they want you to use to "level" in FFXIV and that they'll scale with party size.  So you certainly can do both (hmph, sometimes I think I'm the only one who reads what the Devs are saying about the game).
 

I think its hilarious that you think you can understand what SE is currently saying about the game.

Personally I do not know why they bother saying half the stuff they say. It is often contradictory or extremely vague... So yah Drachasor, maybe you are the only one listening because everyone else has the common sense to stop listening when the words are no longer comprehensible.

"All indications"- the amount of times you have posted on these boards with your complete faith that the simple and vague statements SE has made about their game somehow back up your beliefs and opnions is mad ...If I had a penny for each time I'd be able to buy SE and make sure FF14 the true succesor to the original FF11.

We know next to nothing from what SE has said. Economics is a much better tool, I think, to use to dicern what SE might do with FF14. And right now Blizzard is writing the Economics books... so it is far safer to say that SE is readind and rereading that book with the intent to use what they learn in FF14, then to try and decipher the words of SE's PR and make claims or opinions based on those translations... Might as well take up learning Ancient Greek and put all that effort to productive use.

Originally posted by Bellarion
 

I think its hilarious that you think you can understand what SE is currently saying about the game.

 

Personally I do not know why they bother saying half the stuff they say. It is often contradictory or extremely vague... So yah Drachasor, maybe you are the only one listening because everyone else has the common sense to stop listening when the words are no longer comprehensible.

 

"All indications"- the amount of times you have posted on these boards with your complete faith that the simple and vague statements SE has made about their game somehow back up your beliefs and opnions is mad ...If I had a penny for each time I'd be able to buy SE and make sure FF14 the true succesor to the original FF11.

 

We know next to nothing from what SE has said. Economics is a much better tool, I think, to use to dicern what SE might do with FF14. And right now Blizzard is writing the Economics books... so it is far safer to say that SE is readind and rereading that book with the intent to use what they learn in FF14, then to try and decipher the words of SE's PR and make claims or opinions based on those translations... Might as well take up learning Ancient Greek and put all that effort to productive use.

 

My condolences to you, but I've found what they've said to be completely coherent and not at all contradictory.  As it happens, no one on these boards has ever shown my interpretation to be false.  If things are so contradictory, then I am sure you can find a SE quote that disagrees with what I am saying.  Heck, I'll make it easy for you, just find me some contradictory stuff they've said and post it here with links.