Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Instead, I consider MMO immersion to be "that thing, where you're playing for hours and realise that you forgot to eat because you were just enjoying yourself too much." ..

I've done that much more in games like Civilization than I ever have with mmo's. I just don't see the immersion aspect of mmo's in comparison to single player games.

A lot has already been mentioned, like names, item shops, etc.

The biggest immersion killer in MMORPGs for me is rushing through content/dungeons and raiding. And especially the number crunching at later stages of the games. And no, I'm not really much of a RPer.

So we're all pretty much in agreement here.

It's the community that kills the immersion.

//sign me up.

The immersion is killed for me when the game is poorly made.

Otherwise, I've got no problem fitting in to any community.

Honestly, its Real life. Generally speaking, When i play a game for 3-4 hours and I'm completely focus on it, then that is when i have the most fun. But when people keep calling/texting me or i have to use the bathroom or eat, I can tend to loose my immersion. Even if im sitting in a main city and chatting for a hour about random stuff, I have great immersion.

Hrm i guess the quick answer would be RL distractions.

No stinging penalty for dying kills immersion for me.  Oh, there are other things as well, but when you find that you character's best and most painless way to cross a zone is to die and reappear at a bind spot or graveyard on the opposite end, then immersion suffers immensely.

Got to have that penalty to keep on your toes and to respect the game world.   Otherwise, everything just feels nerfed.

Instancing is my immersion breaker.

for me it's PVP yeah i know i hate one the most popular features in mmo's today. like in WoW i spend hour completing quests to find all the npc dead. or quest that has you group with bunch npc's to have other faction player kill them and get quest failed. don't care if or group players failed at mission but to fail because some rude punk thats where i draw the line. that and pop up duel request"please ask first". i don't mind a duel now and then but when it interupts quests and my story immersion i can't stand it.

The community

world of warcraft has become a huge turndown for me because of the constant dumbing down community of self-proclaimed 'elitists' and naysayers.

RP realms aren't really rp realms anymore with the flocking of thousands who believe 'rp realms are more mature' and breaking the little thread of immersion that was left in them.

Graphics

I've been spoiled by RPGs released within the last few years that improved on this aspect... I find games with more appealing and more realistic setting to give a much more immersive feeling, the only exceptions are games I had enjoyed before.

 Names like Ikillu or Stabbymcstabstab. Stupid names like that ruin it for me a lot of the time.

Usually when player's wear clown suits ie the green pants,purple tops, yellow hats/helms etc. Obviously dressed in the most jaring way.

Way over the top oversized weapons.

Obviously, other people seems to be the big problem here. BUT..what can a game developer really do about that? Not much considering the real problem is the World we live in. So on that note, I'm not going to mention the things that a developer has no control over, like community.

that being said here is my list of issues that kill immersion:

Sound and Music - The greatest movies have the best sound and soundtrack. Try watching lord of the rings or Star Wars or Braveheart without the awesome sound effects and music. doesn't quite work does it? This should be applied to all games, whether you listen to the ingame music or not.

Invisible Walls

Instanced zones instead of open world zones. i.e. WoW does this well, EQ2 does not.

Lack of storyL Gotta give me story in more than just quest text and background lore. I point to FFXI and LOTRO for prime examples of how to do it right.

Basically that's my main immersion breakers. Sure, that jerk that ran by with the stupid name like xxxSepirothxxx is annoying but every world has it's idiots lol.

 Okay, 4 things more than anything kill the immersion for me.

1. Community

It's not that it's a community of assholes that kills it for me, they could be roleplaying one. It's that it's a community of asshats complaining about RL issues in a game because they can't find anyone in RL that gives a damn to listen to their problems. Even more than that, just any mention of RL where it's not necessary, such as "brb, ____ calls" or "omg, this JUST HAPPENED" or some kind of "this is what's happening in my life" when you just get on kind of kills the feeling that i'm in so and so fantasy world unless of course, you're all in the medium and just looking to be social, in which RL could be a valid subject. 

I'll go so far as to agree with public chat channels. If I want to be immersed, I want the only chat to be within talk/shout range and there shouldn't be a chat log. If you don't hear it., they should have to repeat it and the text input box should only come up when you want to talk, with a bubble above your head (that doesn't follow the screen when you turn) displaying speech. Well what if we're being invaded? A damn town crier can tell me. Not some nub on the other end of the continent.

2. Gameplay

I absolutely hate when gameplay isn't immersive. Games like EvE, when I spend more time clicking the same things over and over whenever something needs changed to keep power levels steady kills the feeling of immersion in a game. Whatever the action is, I want to feel part of it all the time, not just 3/4 of the time. Though 3/4 of the time is better than I can say for some games, it still isn't good immersion. Hell, watching numbers crunch in MUDs can even be immersive. It's watching combat from a different perspective, sort of like Martine from Tad Williams' book series, Otherland (if anyone gets the reference). I just want to feel part of the combat, and some games don't do it for me.

3. Having a small world

I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't feel immersed when I can reach the edge of the world in anything less than an hour in any direction. It feels way too small and doesn't feel realistic at all. I can understand in sci-fi games where I can jump in the blink of an eye, but in games where you're on land in a fantasy/modern/historical setting and there's hardly any space, there's no point. The immersion is dead to me.

4. Bad quests

I'm not some hired gun and I'm not some manservant either, I don't want all of my quests to be fetch this or kill that. There needs to be variety or it needs to be sandbox where I can make what I want of the game. At least in sandbox games, I can make my own quests.
 

1. Bad user intergace - games like shadowbane or anarchy online I just couldn't get past it
2. Bad gameplay - some games I just can't feel like I am in control or feel like I am actually hitting someone or getting hit
3. Games that don't have seemless worlds and bad game world design.  Large open worlds that still have areas of higher population AND far out areas where you will hardly see anyone really makes the game feel alive.  Add into the whether, night and day, seasonal changes, they all make the game FEEL alive.  I will never forget in Asheron's Call when it would go from day to night, or start raining, or when the seasons would change the world would change with it.  It really FELT alive.
4. Lack or unique areas, equipment (want dropped based AND craft based), or enemies
5. Lack of a fun PvP content and a good endgame.  Could be a keep based or a zone based CTF or zone control etc.  Something to make me want to play in a competitive fashion in groups or a duel type system.
6. CHEATING - rampant cheater just ruins a game.
7. Macroning - when this gets bad the game just doensn't feel alive
8. ELITEism - If I can't feel like I can compete without playing the game 24/7 it just isn't fun
9. Community
10. Lack of things to do - quests, exploration, pvp type games/stuff
11. Loading times

 People randomly emoting. They're usually not funny and look awkward. Especially "naked mailbox dancers". Actually, Leifeldian females in MMOs is what bugs me. When a "hawt elf" is swinging a sword, that looks heavier, than she does and clips through her boobs - that's where I draw the line.

Originally posted by TribeofOne

"A Snake Kicks YOU for 10 points of damage"

 

I laughed.

On the topic at hand, I could write numerous articles about immersion, but I will try to summarize.

On community:

Games don't take themselves seriously enough.

This is what I believe leads to the "bad community" in the sense of horrendous names, bad emotes, and general idiocy.

Human beings are surprisingly malleable creatures. You drop one in a professional environment, and they tend to act professional. In games like WoW, that is filled to the brim with pop culture and idiocy, people will adapt and begin taking a similar mindset.

Adding depth and difficulty to the game helps to promote a degree of professionalism. In old EQ people tended to not dick around in pugs, as they knew it could wipe them and set everyone back hours creating a disdain towards them by the rest of the community. And yes, there will always be exceptions. Its the nature of numbers.

But, Look at today's games. Does death really matter in any of them? Do people have anything to fear being branded outcast by their peers for childish behavior? Does personal identity even still exist in the mmo gamespace?

Small Personal things that kill immersion for me:

First person perspective not being the norm.

Being inundated with "quests".

Voice Chat causes more harm than good, in my opinion. Typing tends to make people more concise and leaves it there for other people to see when they get to it.

People who are incapable of forming somewhat correct words and sentences. U, ur, ne1, 2, etc... Oftentimes I want to shoot people when I see that much butchering of language. I have seen college level papers turned in written like that. Shorthand has permeated our society too much. It is disgusting, and I believe we are all stupider for having been exposed to it.

...There's quite a bit more, but after visualizing my last point, I need to go blow off some steam.

Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

Originally posted by TribeofOne

"A Snake Kicks YOU for 10 points of damage"

 

I laughed.

 

On the topic at hand, I could write numerous articles about immersion, but I will try to summarize.

On community:

Games don't take themselves seriously enough.

This is what I believe leads to the "bad community" in the sense of horrendous names, bad emotes, and general idiocy.

Human beings are surprisingly malleable creatures. You drop one in a professional environment, and they tend to act professional. In games like WoW, that is filled to the brim with pop culture and idiocy, people will adapt and begin taking a similar mindset.

Adding depth and difficulty to the game helps to promote a degree of professionalism. In old EQ people tended to not dick around in pugs, as they knew it could wipe them and set everyone back hours creating a disdain towards them by the rest of the community. And yes, there will always be exceptions. Its the nature of numbers.

But, Look at today's games. Does death really matter in any of them? Do people have anything to fear being branded outcast by their peers for childish behavior? Does personal identity even still exist in the mmo gamespace?

 

 

Small Personal things that kill immersion for me:

First person perspective not being the norm.

Being inundated with "quests".

Voice Chat causes more harm than good, in my opinion. Typing tends to make people more concise and leaves it there for other people to see when they get to it.

People who are incapable of forming somewhat correct words and sentences. U, ur, ne1, 2, etc... Oftentimes I want to shoot people when I see that much butchering of language. I have seen college level papers turned in written like that. Shorthand has permeated our society too much. It is disgusting, and I believe we are all stupider for having been exposed to it.

 

...There's quite a bit more, but after visualizing my last point, I need to go blow off some steam.

 

Signed.

Except for the first-person part, but still.

I like the point about "inseriousness" of games. Unles it makes sense in setting, like CO, for example, it really needs to go.

My wife yelling at me to take out the trash breaks all the immersion for me.  8p

1. Chat tabs. While chat bubbles arent the solution I would suggest that any chat has only the range of a chat bubble! I remember guild meetings where we would all meet in the guild house and talk "in the room" so to speak....now its all done on chat panels from every part of the map which doesnt do much for getting that community feeling going.

2. Vent type chat. Sure they can help in pvp or raids etc but like many of you have said, it is a bit of a downer hearing the heroic leader of your raid is Alvin the Chipmunk.

3. Player names. 

4. Over-instancing. 

1. Community.

This is not something the developers can control directly.. but they can indirectly. WoW for example. Is designed with alot of "immersive" factors. Zoneless world, huge amount of lore. But, they counteract those things with easy quests, question marks, number crunching raids, and purple shines. They also made the game available to all intelligence levels.. so even the most idiotic of people are able to play it. "CAN I HAV 1G PLZ, 4 SORD"? or any of the chuck norris, and innappropriate content that people talk about in the open chat channels. Sometimes I wonder where the parents are.

2. Silly names

Kind of hard to feel like your in Norrath, or Azeroth, or Hyboria when your trying to adventure with a guy named "FEARDOTDOT" or "BLACKWARRIOR" yet the character is like a mage or something. Or better yet, the people who name their characters the "class". So, mages are "FROSTMAGE" or "FIREMAGE" or "TREEDRUID". Then the people who don't even use nouns as names.. like.. "Istabyou" or "pewpewlazerz". And finally the unoriginal names.. like Legolas, Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall and the many variations of. This also spreads to guild names with stuff like <At Least we took Stables>, <The Gnome Depot>, <OMGWTFBBQ>. There was a guild recruiting the last time I played WoW.. in trade channel (why?) I can't remember the guilds name.. but the ad went something lke this..

"<stupidguildname> is recruiting. We are a weed based guild. We are looking for like minded individuals who want to have fun and are interested in Chronic. 18+ only PST"

and they were serious..

3. Allowing kids to play.

I know I will get crucified for this, but I have a 2 year old myself and I still get completely annoyed by all the kids that play these games. They have xbox and wii for that. These games should be complicated enough that a kid wouldn't want to play it. If not that, there should be a way to restrict servers to ages. They do it with porn, why not MMO's? Sure its not just kids who cause issues.. but I would guess that the majority of the trash talkers and general idiots in game are not 18. Age of Conan was supposed to be an adult game.. and you see where that went. I don't remember playing with alot of youngsters in UO or EQ... there  were a few.. but they were usually the well mannered intelligent ones. Since you can play WoW on a toaster, every halo player on the planet can install it and play on his emachines.

4. Easymode.

Quests that are marked to be easy to find. Linear quests and quest areas where quests follow each other in a row. Mini maps that tell you where things are that you've never been to previously. Mobs that drop aggro after you run away for a few seconds.  No death penalty. Being able to travel anywhere easily. It should be hard to get from one part of the world to the far reaches of the other. Too much stuff is soloable. Addons that do more than change the UI slightly.

5. Voice Chat

There is not one person who can give me  a  valid reason why voice chat "must" be used in order to complete game content. I did all the hardest encounters back in the day on the games that still had hard content.. without it. Don' t sit here and try to tell me that we can't clear a WoW raid without having to use it. I listen to other people's whiny and annoying voices all day long while I am at work. MMO's are my way to have interaction without having to deal with the "real" side of people. Everyone is supposed to be somene else for the time they are playing. So, like someone else said.. if your an orc.. I don't want to hear a 13 year old boys voice talking about random nonsense. I also don't want to hear a 30 year old, complain about the game over vent. As a matter of fact, I don't want to hear anything at all other than the games music and sound effects.

6. Instancing.

Instanced dungeons, Instanced PVP, Instances ANYTHING.. it all screws up immersion for me. I want to see other people adventuring. It bothers me knowing 400 other people are killing Van Cleef at the same time, yet they will never see each other.

7. Leet Speak and excessive use of acronyms.

I mentioned this somewhat previously.. but when all you see in chat is.. "LF1M VC PST" or "LF BS PST" it kind of kills any immersion there may have been. Is it really that hard to spell out the words?

My general conclusion is that people are rude and lazy... On that same note.. game developers are comprised of alot of these rude and lazy people and thus the games are catered for those people because the rest of us are in a minority.