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News Discussion  » General: Community Managers: Where We Came From

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29 posts found
  GentleNova

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/09
Posts: 16

11/17/09 10:05:27 PM#21

Great article Victor! And I think both AureliusLH and Wraithone are pretty close to the mark with their replies.

The best community managers are those that are both an evangelist for the developer and a champion for the gamer. Instead of building walls, they build bridges. They help clarify communications for both sides, so that both side's voices are recognized, heard, and, most importantly of all, understood. They help people to see similarities and to relate to one another, rather than causing them to see differences and divisions. They may not always be liked, but they should try at the very least to be respected.

Above all else, they need to be trusted to be effective. Obviously that trust can't be given but has to be earned. Yet at the same time, that trust requires an understanding and a commitment from both sides because their word is only as good as those that they are relaying.

PS. BTW two books I'd recommending reading if you're a Community Manager are the following.

"Community Building on the Web" by Amy Jo Kim is an older book but still quite relevant on building communities online today.

"Finding Our Way" by Margaret J Wheatley is a more recent book that helps explain how to build strong natural relationships in organizations today by understanding and overcoming many of the stresses and faults within them, often caused by unnatural practices.

  Wazzar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 20

11/18/09 12:18:28 AM#22

Nice report.

 

BTW

Wasn't HITLER a community manager?

 

J/k

 

I appreciate what you do and I expect so do a lot of other people.

 

Wazzar

  Czargio

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 183

11/18/09 1:38:21 AM#23

 I'm not exactly sure if she was a CM, but I distinctly remember Gaile Grey from Guild Wars as the sort of mediator between the community and the team. She really made the difference thinking back, having a lowbie ranger in Lions Arch talk straight to us about what was happening or even about what was happening in the office. It was really nice, even just the feeling of having someone fighting for us, which is a silly thought considering ALL the team was trying to please us.

And then we would do the congo to her lead.

Good times.

  Scot

Novice Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 2643

11/18/09 1:50:28 AM#24

Mr Wachter’s concerns about where the role of CM is going are part of the background drift for MMO’s to become ever more corporate. Statistics before people is just part of that business orientation that is taking over.

The ironic thing is that all the revised revenue models, PR hype and good business practise have not ensured the successful launch and sustainability of new titles in recent years. Software houses need to think about why that is and remind themselves of the principles any good game is built on. Otherwise they will just keep having a lot of pretty graphs and charts as the launch fails or the game haemorrhages players after a couple of months.

  Gyrus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2033

11/18/09 5:05:02 AM#25
Originally posted by Scot

Mr Wachter’s concerns about where the role of CM is going are part of the background drift for MMO’s to become ever more corporate. Statistics before people is just part of that business orientation that is taking over.

The ironic thing is that all the revised revenue models, PR hype and good business practise have not ensured the successful launch and sustainability of new titles in recent years. Software houses need to think about why that is and remind themselves of the principles any good game is built on. Otherwise they will just keep having a lot of pretty graphs and charts as the launch fails or the game haemorrhages players after a couple of months.

 

*Applause*

 

 

Anyway, OT.
I have had two very bad experiences with community managers.
One was for a company that makes Single Player Strategy Games.  As that company became more 'corporate' their team and attitude changed.
It was no longer permissible to say certain things - decided arbitrarily by their CH and "Super moderator".
They have turned a healthy fun community into a community forum that just reruns 'forum werewolf' and 'forum mafia' games...
Probably just as well as they no longer seem to be able to produce a decent game - which came first - the chicken or the egg?

 

 

The other was a case of a CM not bothering to actually read and comprehend what he was being told.
After a 2008 MMO pre order release the retailing was not going well.
The distributer had mad a large number of mistakes and seemed unable to account for all the "pre order keys" and there were multiple reports of the retail staff at a certain US retail chain 'stealing' the keys from the "pre order boxes"
Based on a discussion here on MMORPG.com a poster claimed that he was able to obtain one of the keys by going to a friend of his who worked at that chain. 
Buying the box. 
Opening it right there at the counter and removing the key.
Handing the box back for a full refund.

I was appalled and called BS.  Then I issued a challenge - saying that if this was true he should do this and send me a key.

He did.

Now, I still don't know today if he did as he claimed or simply brought a box and sent me the key to 'prove me wrong'?

Anyway, with that key I gained access to the Developer Forum (which had gone subscriber only) and posted a thread explaining how I got the key.
I suggested a serious problem with key security and posibly theft by the staff at a US retail chain and suggested thet the Developer investigate at once.

The initial response was from the Game Manager (IIRC).  He said there was nothing wrong with that as I had brought the key legally.
My response was - 'okay your call - your money to throw away I guess?'

Two days later I got a turse message from the Community Manager:
ARE YOU USING A STOLEN KEY!?
My reply was "I don't know - read the threads here and at MMORPG.com and you decide... I am not using the key... I will not go in game... I simply wanted to bring the matter to you attention.

He then threatened me.  He seemed unable to comprehend what I was saying.  He accused me of getting the key - I responded that I lived in a country where the game was not even released.
After two days of threats I suggested that he talk to someone who could read English.
A day later the thread here (MMORPG.com) disappeared as did the one on the Developer Boards.

I never heard anything else about the matter.

I tried playing Real Life but the graphics sucked, the community was annoying too.
- WolfOfBloodAndBone commenting on "The Guild"'s Game On Music Vid

  Horusra

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 1258

11/18/09 7:16:29 AM#26

I thought community managers were basically the biggest fanbois of the game warning and banning all those that oppose their point of view.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 2660

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

11/18/09 2:12:21 PM#27
Originally posted by Horusra

I thought community managers were basically the biggest fanbois of the game warning and banning all those that oppose their point of view.

 

Unfortunately that can happen. Usually its when the company is using unpaid people(fans) to ride herd on the forums. But it has happened to some so called "professionals" as well.  While a CM should believe in the game, one aspect of their role is to be advocates for the players to the Powers That Be.  But in all too many instances that can cost one their job. Suits/Dev's many times take the attitude ; "You are either with us, or you are with... The Players".  Needless to say. most people follow their self interest.

  SnarlingWolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 1855

11/18/09 3:55:11 PM#28
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Horusra

I thought community managers were basically the biggest fanbois of the game warning and banning all those that oppose their point of view.

 

Unfortunately that can happen. Usually its when the company is using unpaid people(fans) to ride herd on the forums. But it has happened to some so called "professionals" as well.  While a CM should believe in the game, one aspect of their role is to be advocates for the players to the Powers That Be.  But in all too many instances that can cost one their job. Suits/Dev's many times take the attitude ; "You are either with us, or you are with... The Players".  Needless to say. most people follow their self interest.


 

 

Both of those quotes are inaccurate and wildly exagerated. Let's not just use imagination to decide how the business works.

 

One thing players do forget is that a companies official forums are not the same as a public forum. They are a private forum with membership and rules. So yes if you break the rules (often time discussing other games, discussing admin actions that were taken either on the forums or in game etc are actually against the rules you agree to when you post) your post will be deleted and you could be banned. That doesn't make the world an evil place where everyone is out to get you. Usually people who follow the rules (both fans of a game and people who are upset at the game) do not run into any problems, in my experience.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 2660

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

11/18/09 5:50:09 PM#29
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Horusra

I thought community managers were basically the biggest fanbois of the game warning and banning all those that oppose their point of view.

 

Unfortunately that can happen. Usually its when the company is using unpaid people(fans) to ride herd on the forums. But it has happened to some so called "professionals" as well.  While a CM should believe in the game, one aspect of their role is to be advocates for the players to the Powers That Be.  But in all too many instances that can cost one their job. Suits/Dev's many times take the attitude ; "You are either with us, or you are with... The Players".  Needless to say. most people follow their self interest.


 

 

Both of those quotes are inaccurate and wildly exagerated. Let's not just use imagination to decide how the business works.

 

One thing players do forget is that a companies official forums are not the same as a public forum. They are a private forum with membership and rules. So yes if you break the rules (often time discussing other games, discussing admin actions that were taken either on the forums or in game etc are actually against the rules you agree to when you post) your post will be deleted and you could be banned. That doesn't make the world an evil place where everyone is out to get you. Usually people who follow the rules (both fans of a game and people who are upset at the game) do not run into any problems, in my experience.

 

I suspect its you whose tin foil hat is leaking, as I didn't speak of any grand conspiracy

I did how ever speak of the day to day reality of many game companies, faced by CM's.  Official forums are obviously private, and thus subject to what ever rule set that is imposed. Thats a given, and not something that even needs to be mentioned.  What is also reality is that all too many suits/Dev's adopt the cartoon mentality of our last Dear Leader, in so far as one is either "with" them, or "against" them.  Thus imposing unrealistic expectations and limitations on CM's being able to do their jobs effectively.

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