Decided to make this it's own thread.  Let's try and keep it civil...

These are the links to the current clan counts for both servers:

EU: df.urme.com/index.php
NA: darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php

From the links above here are the Counts:

11/17/09

EU: = 11,737 (Baseline)

NA: = 6,919 (Baseline)

Total: = 18,656 (Baseline)

11/18/09

EU: = 11,724 (Decrease of 13)

NA: = 6,911 (Decrease of 8)

Total: = 18,635 (Decrease of 21)

11/19/09

 EU: = 11,619 (Decrease of 105)

NA: = 6,909 (Decrease of 2)

Total: = 18,528 (Decrease of 107)

11/20/09

EU: = 11,607 (Decrease of 12)

NA: = 6,940 (Increase of 31)

Total: = 18,547 (Increase of 19)

11/23/2009

 EU: 11,599 (Decrease of 8)

NA: 7,076 (Increase of 136)

Total: 18,675 (Increase of 128)

11/26/09

EU: 11,512 (Decrease of 87)

NA: 7,171 (Increase of 95)

Total: 18,683 (Increase of 8)

11/29/2009

EU: = 11,509 (Decrease of 3)

NA: = 7,312 (Increase of 141)

Total: = 18,821 (Increase of 138)

12/06/09

EU: = 11,508 (Decrease of 1)

NA: = 7,747 (Increase of 435)*

Total: = 19,255 (Increase of 434)

 * The website that provides the numbers these totals are figured from has added clans with only 1 member for the NA server count. The EU server is still being reported with a minimum of 2 per clan.

12/13/09

EU: = 11,904 (Increase of 396)*
NA: = 7,757 (Increase of 10)
Total: = 19,661 (Increase of 406)

* The EU Server is now counting 1 member clans just like the NA Server.

12/21/09

EU: = 11,983 (Increase of 79)
NA: = 8,395 (Increase of 638)
Total: = 20,378 (Increase of 717)

12/28/09

EU: = 11,963 (Decrease of 20)
NA: = 8,395 (Same)
Total: = 20,358 (Decrease of 20)

1/3/2010

EU: = 12,082 (Increaase of 119)

NA: = 8,088 (Decrease of 307)

Total = 20,170 (Decrease of 188)

1/11/2010

EU: = 12,103 (Increase of 21)

NA: = 8,203 (Increase of 115)

Total: = 20,306 (Increase of 136)

1/17/2010

EU: = 12,177 (Weekly Increase of 74)

NA: = 8,213 (Weekly Increase of 10)

Total: = 20,390 (Increase of 1,734 since 11/17/09)

1/24/2010

EU: = 12,169 (Weekly Decrease of 8)

NA: = 8,214 (Weekly Increase of 1)

Total: = 20,383 (Increase of 1,727 since 11/17/09)

1/31/2010

EU: = 12,210 (Weekly Increase of 41)

EU Active: = 1,418 (Baseline)*

NA: = 8,305 (Weekly Increase of 91)

Total: = 20,515 (Increase of 1,859 since 11/17/2009)

 *New Feature added to site for EU.  Look here for full information: df.urme.com/updates.txt

2/7/2010

EU: = 12,292 (Weekly Increase of 82)

EU Active: = 1,846 (Weekly Increase of 428)

NA: = 8,193 (Weekly Decrease of 112)

NA Active: = 8,187 (Baseline)*

Total: = 20,485 (Increase of 1,829 since 11/17/2009)

*New Feature added to site for NA. Look here for full information: darkfallinfo.com/pmap/updates.txt

2/14/2010

EU: = 12,341 (Weekly Increase of 49)

EU Active: = 2,156 (Weekly Increase of 310)

NA: = 8,379 (Weekly Increase of 186)

NA Active: = 2,597 (Baseline Reset)

Total: = 20,720 (Increase of 2,064 since 11/17/2009)

2/21/2010

EU: = 12,344 (Weekly Increase of 3)

EU Active: = 2,347 (Weekly Increase of 191)

NA: = 8,497 (Weekly Increase of 118)

NA Active: = 3,991 (Weekly Increase of 1,394)

Total: = 20,841 (Increase of 2,185 since 11/17/2009)

2/28/2010

EU: = 12,452 (Weekly Increase of 108)

EU Active: = 2,226 (Weekly Decrease of 121)

NA: = 8,778 (Weekly Increase of 281)

NA Active: = 4,785 (Weekly Increase of 794)

Total: = 21,230 (Increase of 2,574 since 11/17/2009)

3/7/2010
EU: = 12,541 (Weekly Increase of 89)
EU Active: = 2,243 (Weekly Increase of 17)

NA: = 9,081 (Weekly Increase of 303)
NA Active: = 4,865 (Weekly Increase of 80)

Total: = 21,622 (Increase of 2,966 since 11/17/2009)

3/14/2010

EU: = 12,614 (Weekly Increase of 73)
EU Active: = 2,257 (Weekly Increase of 14)

NA: = 8,763 (Weekly Decrease of 318)
NA Active: = 4,758 (Weekly Decrease of 107)

Total: = 21,377 (Increase of 2,721 since 11/17/2009)

3/22/2010

EU: = 12,602 (Weekly Decrease of 12)
EU Active: = 2,516 (Weekly Increase of 259)

NA: = 8,595 (Weekly Decrease of 168)
NA Active: = 2,543 (Weekly Decrease of 2,215)

Total: = 21,197 (Increase of 2,541 since 11/17/2009)

3/28/2010

EU: = 12,604 (Weekly Increase of 2)
EU Active: = 2,857 (Weekly Increase of 341)

NA: = 8,381 (Weekly Decrease of 214)
NA Active: = 2,364 (Weekly Decrease of 179)

Total: = 20,985 (Increase of 2,329 since 11/17/2009)

____________________________________________________________________

 4/4/2010

EU: = 12,495 (Weekly Decrease of 109)
EU Active: = 2,819 (Weekly Decrease of 38)

NA: = 8,946 (Weekly Increase of 565)
NA Active: = 3,650 (Weekly Increase of 1,286)

Total: = 21,441 (Increase of 2,785 since 11/17/2009)

___________________________________________________________________

 4/11/2010

EU: = 12,371 (Weekly Decrease of 124)
EU Active: = 2,459 (Weekly Decrease of 360)

NA: = 9,049 (Weekly Increase of 103)
NA Active: = 3,176 (Weekly Decrease of 474)

Total: = 21,420 (Increase of 2,764 since 11/17/2009)

___________________________________________________________________

4/19/2010

EU: = 12,308 (Weekly Decrease of 63)
EU Active: = 2,027 (Weekly Decrease of 432)

NA: = 9,298 (Weekly Increase of 249)
NA Active: = 3,087 (Weekly Decrease of 89)

Total: = 21,606 (Increase of 2,950 since 11/17/2009)  

____________________________________________________________________

Counts continued at this post in this same thread:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3526675#3526675

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

 

I for one just find it an interesting hobby to pass my time while not busy at work.  Hope that's o.k. 

I don't plan on "using" the numbers for anything.  As I said in the OP it's the only non-subjective number about DarkFall that is available.

IF the "fans" are correct and the servers are "brimming" with new players... the clan counts should show an increase over time. 

IF the "haters" are correct and the servers are stagnant or shrinking... the clan counts should show that as well.

As I alluded to in the OP.  Using the clan counts and tracking them over time removes bias from the equation.  Sure, one may argue over how many inactives are included in the counts, or how many un-clanned players are not counted... and I addressed those points in the OP.

Any way you look at it, just tracking the numbers themselves is about as objective as you can get in regards to DarkFall. 

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

"I'm worried that these numbers will show up the bullshit that I've been spewing about Darkfall having a much larger playerbase now! So, I have to ask xzyax whether or not he's going to use these as spin to make Darkfall look better!"

I'd guess the EU numbers are wildly inaccurate, mainly because of players not returning to play those accounts ( as surely the majority would've transferred by now ).

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

 

 

I for one just find it an interesting hobby to pass my time while not busy at work.  Hope that's o.k. 

 

I don't plan on "using" the numbers for anything.  As I said in the OP it's the only non-subjective number about DarkFall that is available.

IF the "fans" are correct and the servers are "brimming" with new players... the clan counts should show an increase over time. 

IF the "haters" are correct and the servers are stagnant or shrinking... the clan counts should show that as well.

 

As I alluded to in the OP.  Using the clan counts and tracking them over time removes bias from the equation.  Sure, one may argue over how many inactives are included in the counts, or how many un-clanned players are not counted... and I addressed those points in the OP.

Any way you look at it, just tracking the numbers themselves is about as objective as you can get in regards to DarkFall. 

 Wouldn't the numbers increase in any case, since they feature inactive players as well as new arrivals?

Originally posted by Dawnsinger

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

"I'm worried that these numbers will show up the bullshit that I've been spewing about Darkfall having a much larger playerbase now! So, I have to ask xzyax whether or not he's going to use these as spin to make Darkfall look better!"

I'd guess the EU numbers are wildly inaccurate, mainly because of players not returning to play those accounts ( as surely the majority would've transferred by now ).

Yes, as I mentioned in the OP and gave a few examples.  The EU numbers do seem more askew than the NA numbers. 

It might be argued as well that the NA numbers might be a bit "under" represented, since it is a newer server it would stand to reason that there would be a higher percentage of un-clanned players.

That being said... a good number of players who joined the NA server knew the importance of joining a clan and so most likely did so at a much earlier stage than players did on the EU server when it launched.

In the end, the numbers are what they are.  I will try to update this thread and the numbers on at least a weekly basis and then we can all see how they change. 

I'm sure we will see a good amount of spin from both angles as to what the numbers mean. 

I like your post. Whether or not the numbers are 100 percent correct, they still give you a feel for an answer on numbers.

Ive been on the edge of resubbing for a couple weeks now and everything I look at makes me come closer to subbing again...ahh damn it..shouldnt have resubbed to WoW

Originally posted by BadMedicine

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Where does such a discussion leads ? even if you know the exact number what conclusions you like to draw from it ?

What will u use the number for and what should it show you ? 

 

 

I for one just find it an interesting hobby to pass my time while not busy at work.  Hope that's o.k. 

 

I don't plan on "using" the numbers for anything.  As I said in the OP it's the only non-subjective number about DarkFall that is available.

IF the "fans" are correct and the servers are "brimming" with new players... the clan counts should show an increase over time. 

IF the "haters" are correct and the servers are stagnant or shrinking... the clan counts should show that as well.

 

As I alluded to in the OP.  Using the clan counts and tracking them over time removes bias from the equation.  Sure, one may argue over how many inactives are included in the counts, or how many un-clanned players are not counted... and I addressed those points in the OP.

Any way you look at it, just tracking the numbers themselves is about as objective as you can get in regards to DarkFall. 

 

 Wouldn't the numbers increase in any case, since they feature inactive players as well as new arrivals?

In the short-term you are correct, but over time they do eventually cull the inactives. 
 

If I had to guess it's about a month or so after the subscription runs out.

The EU clan count from May was in the 15k count range.  Now it is in the 11k count range.  So, we know that it does indeed decrease given enough time. 

The increases seem to be counted much more quickly than the decreases, as the NA server counts already show the clan counts for those who just transferred a week ago or so.  Those same clans still show the same number on the EU server. 

Some players may indeed carry subscriptions on both servers (the official forums now show this) and then should correctly be counted twice.  The chances of ALL of them carrying 2 subscriptions though does seem a low probability ( and the official forums confirm this, as very few posters have both subs listed on their forum accounts).

So, given enough time... the numbers do eventually track to mirror a close approximation to the actual population. 

Cool, thanks for the post xzyax.

As others have said it may not be exact, but at least this gives us a reasonable idea as to what the population looks like on both servers. It also allows us to better gauge the condition of the game in the coming months.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Cool, thanks for the post xzyax.

As others have said it may not be exact, but at least this gives us a reasonable idea as to what the population looks like on both servers. It also allows us to better gauge the condition of the game in the coming months.

Thanks.

And I agree.  We should see an increase over the next couple months with the release of the upcoming "expansion". 

A month or two after the expansion is released should show what kind of retention that DarkFall has once the subscriptions from those that joined for the "expansion" need to be renewed.

So, I'd say the next true test for DarkFall will be what the counts show in mid-January.  I'll continue to update the counts until at least that time-period.

If the counts are up then DarkFall would seem to be indeed growing it's population.

If the counts are down then DarkFall's population would seem to be indeed shrinking.

 Well I just subscribed again so the population is X 2

EDIT

xzyax just buy the damn game already you spend too much time here as is, at least make it count

Originally posted by tensspotting

 Well I just subscribed again so the population is X 2

 

EDIT

xzyax just buy the damn game already you spend too much time here as is, at least make it count

So you're the other player that keeps pking me! Could you leave me be for a couple of weeks? Or atleast leave everything I drop?

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Cecropia

Cool, thanks for the post xzyax.

As others have said it may not be exact, but at least this gives us a reasonable idea as to what the population looks like on both servers. It also allows us to better gauge the condition of the game in the coming months.

 

Thanks.

 

And I agree.  We should see an increase over the next couple months with the release of the upcoming "expansion". 

A month or two after the expansion is released should show what kind of retention that DarkFall has once the subscriptions from those that joined for the "expansion" need to be renewed.

 

So, I'd say the next true test for DarkFall will be what the counts show in mid-January.  I'll continue to update the counts until at least that time-period.

 

If the counts are up then DarkFall would seem to be indeed growing it's population.

If the counts are down then DarkFall's population would seem to be indeed shrinking.

I hope we see an increase after the new expansion.  I've seen posts stating there should be increases after NA launched, after the 1st expansion (when many players felt the game was truly out of "paid beta") and after the summer holidays.  Months later and it appears there are still fewer players on NA (per the clan count) than there ever were on EU. 

I've been critical of Darkfall and Aventurine, but never maliciously.  There have been significant problems both pre and post launch, but it truly seems like Aventurine is committed to addressing player concerns and making their game better.  It appears they have enough revenue from other streams (defense contracts and investors, for example) that Darkfall isn't going to go away, but I really do want to see it be good enough to attract a larger number of players and succeed, not just survive.

~Ripper

Originally posted by tensspotting

 Well I just subscribed again so the population is X 2

 

EDIT

xzyax just buy the damn game already you spend too much time here as is, at least make it count

I will hold true to my word from the very beginning.  Go back and check my first few posts if you don't believe me.

I will try the game when they offer a Free Trial.

Until that happens I will be here to offer my opinion on what I like and dislike about the decisions that Aventurine makes.  If I make any mistakes or post an un-truth about the game please point it out, and I will happily correct it.

If I break any RoC's here at MMORPG.COM, please report them.

Thanks. 

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Cecropia

Cool, thanks for the post xzyax.

As others have said it may not be exact, but at least this gives us a reasonable idea as to what the population looks like on both servers. It also allows us to better gauge the condition of the game in the coming months.

 

Thanks.

 

And I agree.  We should see an increase over the next couple months with the release of the upcoming "expansion". 

A month or two after the expansion is released should show what kind of retention that DarkFall has once the subscriptions from those that joined for the "expansion" need to be renewed.

 

So, I'd say the next true test for DarkFall will be what the counts show in mid-January.  I'll continue to update the counts until at least that time-period.

 

If the counts are up then DarkFall would seem to be indeed growing it's population.

If the counts are down then DarkFall's population would seem to be indeed shrinking.

I hope we see an increase after the new expansion.  I've seen posts stating there should be increases after NA launched, after the 1st expansion (when many players felt the game was truly out of "paid beta") and after the summer holidays.  Months later and it appears there are still fewer players on NA (per the clan count) than there ever were on EU. 

I've been critical of Darkfall and Aventurine, but never maliciously.  There have been significant problems both pre and post launch, but it truly seems like Aventurine is committed to addressing player concerns and making their game better.  It appears they have enough revenue from other streams (defense contracts and investors, for example) that Darkfall isn't going to go away, but I really do want to see it be good enough to attract a larger number of players and succeed, not just survive.

~Ripper

Well stated Rhinok, and I agree.
 

We'll see how this goes, since now one doesn't have to be subscribed in order to see the Clan counts.  Hopefully, those two sites that offer the clan counts will stay up so I can continue this thread long enough for it to be useful.

(For those that don't know... Rhinok was the first to post up Clan counts... he deserves the credit for this type of thread).

Not bad xzyax, not bad at all.................

Still i hope that nor you nor ripper don't take my following words in anyway offencively and whilst i overall agree with the numbers since they definitely seem both as plausible and as accurate as numbers of such can be ; it would be quite nice to see some similar research by a seemingly, fairly , reliable source using perhaps same or better plausible and accurate numbers.

I mean just for the sake of conversation and to have something to compare your numbers to......

eu1 is gona have alot more innactives than us1 since its been around alot longer. us1 has alot more more people playing right now than eu1, that is well known despite having more clans.

also bear in mind alot of the people I see in game are un clanned. so even if we knew how many of each clan where active it would still only give us an approximate of subscriptions.

Originally posted by egotrip

Not bad xzyax, not bad at all.................

Still i hope that nor you nor ripper don't take my following words in anyway offencively and whilst i overall agree with the numbers since they definitely seem both as plausible and as accurate as numbers of such can be ; it would be quite nice to see some similar research by a seemingly, fairly , reliable source using perhaps same or better plausible and accurate numbers.

I mean just for the sake of conversation and to have something to compare your numbers to......

Heh... you should know by now Egotrip that I don't offend very easily. 
 

Not sure what you mean by "similar research" though?

As far as I know, the numbers presented from the two links:

EU: df.urme.com/index.php

US: darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php

Are the numbers exactly as they appear in the in-game clan journal.

Can someone who has an active sub. confirm or deny that part?

I know of no other metric that will give clan counts other then the in-game clan journal. 

If that is not what you meant, by all means elaborate.

Originally posted by Consensus

eu1 is gona have alot more innactives than us1 since its been around alot longer. us1 has alot more more people playing right now than eu1, that is well known despite having more clans.

also bear in mind alot of the people I see in game are un clanned. so even if we knew how many of each clan where active it would still only give us an approximate of subscriptions.

Yup I agree... which is why I said basically the same thing in my OP. 

That being said.  It is the closest thing we have to unbiased numbers in regards to DarkFall's server population.

For those who think the numbers mean nothing... they are free to expound upon that opinion here in this thread.  Others though, may find the numbers interesting and it's something tangible that can be easily tracked. 

Hence, the reason for this thread. 

Originally posted by xzyax

Heh... you should know by now Egotrip that I don't offend very easily. 
 

 

Not sure what you mean by "similar research" though?

 

As far as I know, the numbers presented from the two links:

EU: df.urme.com/index.php

US: darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php

 

Are the numbers exactly as they appear in the in-game clan journal.

Can someone who has an active sub. confirm or deny that part?

 

I know of no other metric that will give clan counts other then the in-game clan journal. 

If that is not what you meant, by all means elaborate.

 

No, you just about got it right i simply expressed the thought that many have pondered before : that it would be nice to have a more accurate way of counting player numbers (unclaned people, banned people, re-subed people etc, etc)because as you mentioned "since now one doesn't have to be subscribed in order to see the Clan counts." .Which basically is just people in clans leaving a 10-20% gap for error for the entire population of each server (yes it's just a number i pulled out of my a$$) , plus i can't help but think of the day that somebody gets some funny idea of limiting the viewing of those number to subscribers only, which go ahead and call me a pessimist but it has been proposed before for Darkfall.

Still yours and rhinoks's numbers as good as we can get atm and definitely more accurate than other numbers that have been thrown around here from time to time since Darkfall is portrayed to be a heavily clan based game even by the most loyal of fans so even they can't disproove their own words (but i'm sure they'll try anyways ).