Originally posted by Kickphat

I had a friend that had his Xbox ban and it modded but only so he can play backs of the games he own and now he is forced to buy a new system if he wants to play online again. Plus modding your system isn't illegal. You own the hardware. it would be like saying modding your computer is illegal. what is Illegal is playing games you don't own. I think alot of those people that got ban where people trying to play the new Call of Duty too early. It time stamps the date on when you completed a challenge in a game and then when you go online it sends it threw Xbox live and they see you are playing a game that isn't out yet.

This entire post is incorrect. Microsoft can enforce whatever rules it likes on XBox Live. Modding your console isn't illegal, true, but using a modded console on XBox Live is. And as for being banned for trying to play an unreleased game early? I think not. That's a problem between the publisher and the distributor.

Originally posted by Gameloading

It's not stealing, You're not taking anything away. You're just making a copy of it. Taking a picture of a painting is not stealing the painting.

I see a lot of people complaining about the piracy. I wonder how many of those people have ever downloaded a song off the internet.

The complaint it seems is that downloading a game of the internet is bad because the developer won't get paid for it. So if I borrow a game from a friend instead of buying it, I won't be paying for the game and thus the developer won't get paid either.

Is that bad too?

 

 

This is the same arguement I will often make. Someone will tell me how bad it is to pirate, and that I am stealing. I say that I am not stealing, as they dont lose anything. They then say "Would you go into a store, and steal a TV?" No, of course not. That had a cost to produce, ship out, and sell. The company actually paid money to make that individual item. The retailer had to purchase it, and hopes to make a profit on it. If I steal it, they are actually out a certain amount of money. However, when I pirate something, it costs them nothing. They did not need to produce the disc and box for me, they did not need to ship it, and they do not need to give me support. They also do not need to expend server expenses on me, because I cannot use their online gameplay.

Then, many people will then go on to say "Well, they WOULD have made money if you had bought it. Instead, they made nothing, and you got the product. They have now not earned anything, whereas they would have if you could not have pirated it." 99% of the time false, sorry. Nearly every game and movie I have pirated I would have NEVER bought. I was curious about it, so I pirated it, played it for 2 hours, and uninstalled it. I download a movie, watch it, and say "Wow, this was crap. Glad I didn't buy it".

However, if the game is good, I will usually buy it. I know, everyone says that. But it is true. Because I am a nice guy, and want to give them money? No. Because I want to play it online. In nearly all games these days, the main game takes place online. The Call of Duties are good games, but when it is only a single player game... Still good, but VERY short. Little to do. Borderlands is a cool game. But running through it alone time and time again? Not that fun. Grouping to destroy things? Fun.

Originally posted by Mattimeo41

Originally posted by Kickphat

I had a friend that had his Xbox ban and it modded but only so he can play backs of the games he own and now he is forced to buy a new system if he wants to play online again. Plus modding your system isn't illegal. You own the hardware. it would be like saying modding your computer is illegal. what is Illegal is playing games you don't own. I think alot of those people that got ban where people trying to play the new Call of Duty too early. It time stamps the date on when you completed a challenge in a game and then when you go online it sends it threw Xbox live and they see you are playing a game that isn't out yet.

 

This entire post is incorrect. Microsoft can enforce whatever rules it likes on XBox Live. Modding your console isn't illegal, true, but using a modded console on XBox Live is. And as for being banned for trying to play an unreleased game early? I think not. That's a problem between the publisher and the distributor.

Does this mean if play a X-live game on windows and have a new vid card microsoft says its a illegal.

I had xbox repaired with a new hard drive different size. illegal?

not any different, modding the hard ware does nothing. modding the software on the other hand, is different.  but i think hes talking about the hardware part, and is not illegal. he could put a 2TB.. in there and not be banned unless microsoft is just gay now, well, ok they have always been a little dumb.

Originally posted by Rallycart

Originally posted by Gameloading

It's not stealing, You're not taking anything away. You're just making a copy of it. Taking a picture of a painting is not stealing the painting.

I see a lot of people complaining about the piracy. I wonder how many of those people have ever downloaded a song off the internet.

The complaint it seems is that downloading a game of the internet is bad because the developer won't get paid for it. So if I borrow a game from a friend instead of buying it, I won't be paying for the game and thus the developer won't get paid either.

Is that bad too?

 

 

 

This is the same arguement I will often make. Someone will tell me how bad it is to pirate, and that I am stealing. I say that I am not stealing, as they dont lose anything. They then say "Would you go into a store, and steal a TV?" No, of course not. That had a cost to produce, ship out, and sell. The company actually paid money to make that individual item. The retailer had to purchase it, and hopes to make a profit on it. If I steal it, they are actually out a certain amount of money. However, when I pirate something, it costs them nothing. They did not need to produce the disc and box for me, they did not need to ship it, and they do not need to give me support. They also do not need to expend server expenses on me, because I cannot use their online gameplay.

Then, many people will then go on to say "Well, they WOULD have made money if you had bought it. Instead, they made nothing, and you got the product. They have now not earned anything, whereas they would have if you could not have pirated it." 99% of the time false, sorry. Nearly every game and movie I have pirated I would have NEVER bought. I was curious about it, so I pirated it, played it for 2 hours, and uninstalled it. I download a movie, watch it, and say "Wow, this was crap. Glad I didn't buy it".

However, if the game is good, I will usually buy it. I know, everyone says that. But it is true. Because I am a nice guy, and want to give them money? No. Because I want to play it online. In nearly all games these days, the main game takes place online. The Call of Duties are good games, but when it is only a single player game... Still good, but VERY short. Little to do. Borderlands is a cool game. But running through it alone time and time again? Not that fun. Grouping to destroy things? Fun.

You guys make absolutely silly agruements.  No matter how you look at it it's wrong.  If you copy cash money and attempt to use it (just like you are using a copied game) then you'll go to jail once they find out it's counterfeited.  It's the same exact thing.  You can use the painting agruement too, but it actually is illegal to copy a painting and claim it's real (especially if you attempt to resell it).  You don't think money was spent by the game company to make the game because you don't have a physical disk and box in your hand?  Coding costs money, you have to pay programmers.  The same goes for musicians who make music.  What's especially bad at pirating games via Xbox is that many of the games have a demo you can test whether it's via downloading on Xbox Live or in a video game store like Gamestop.  There is no reason you should have to download an illegal full version of the game to "test" it if you want to buy it or not.

Borrowing is okay because you actually purchased a physical copy of the disk and box.  You can't offer it to your friend and play it yourself most of the time without the disk.  That means that you have to at least finish the game or put it on hold before you can allow your friend to play it.  You also (likely) aren't making your friend pay to rent the game from you (which the developer gets no money from and you profit illegaly from) or make them view a bunch of advertisements on their site before you can borrow the game.  You have the legal right to trade or resell the purchased copy of the game.  Most "companies" that participate in piracy do so for profit.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

You guys make absolutely silly agruements.  No matter how you look at it it's wrong.  If you copy cash money and attempt to use it (just like you are using a copied game) then you'll go to jail once they find out it's counterfeited.  It's the same exact thing.  You can use the painting agruement too, but it actually is illegal to copy a painting and claim it's real (especially if you attempt to resell it).  You don't think money was spent by the game company to make the game because you don't have a physical disk and box in your hand?  Coding costs money, you have to pay programmers.  The same goes for musicians who make music.  What's especially bad at pirating games via Xbox is that many of the games have a demo you can test whether it's via downloading on Xbox Live or in a video game store like Gamestop.  There is no reason you should have to download an illegal full version of the game to "test" it if you want to buy it or not.

Borrowing is okay because you actually purchased a physical copy of the disk and box.  You can't offer it to your friend and play it yourself most of the time without the disk.  That means that you have to at least finish the game or put it on hold before you can allow your friend to play it.  You also (likely) aren't making your friend pay to rent the game from you (which the developer gets no money from and you profit illegaly from) or make them view a bunch of advertisements on their site before you can borrow the game.  You have the legal right to trade or resell the purchased copy of the game.  Most "companies" that participate in piracy do so for profit.

Counterfeiting money is VERY different, as it impacts other people, and that money is not real. Eventually, someone is going to lose out on that. On top of that, it impacts the economy by adding more money into the system. That is a VERY silly comparison. Same with the painting idea, because you would be ripping someone off. They would lose money on it, because it does not have the value you told them it had. You would also be doing that to make money. No pirate pirates games to make money.

And yes, programmers need to be paid and blah blah. However, they have already been paid. Regaurdless of if I pirate the game, that money is spent. And, as I said, odds are that I would not have bought it anyway, so they are not out anything. I gain, and they lose nothing.

Also, you mention something about paying rent for the game? What is this about? No one charges me to download games, and I don't charge anyone else. And advertisements are everywhere. If the site that is hosting the torrent files makes a bit of money, who cares? They are not the one pirating OR the ones getting the games for free. They are the middleman.

And there are not companies that participate in piracy for profit. Unless you mean the street sellers that sell DVD's for dirt cheap, which is not what we are talking about. No one is selling anything. I DO have a problem with someone selling a pirated item. However, I have never paid for a pirated game in my life. Maybe you have done something wrong in the past.

pretty good move for MIcrosoft, but sadly, the pirates and modders will prolly find a way around it at some point.

as for my views on piracy, modding and stuff. i believe piracy is indeed stealing if you're downloading something you didn't pay for. making copies for personal use/backup purposes of legally bought items tho, imho shouldn't count as piracy.  modding for me varies depending if the manufacturer explicitly said that you can't mess with their stuff. like how some MMOs will ban you if they mess with the game client files, while some games open to mods (source engine stuff).

Originally posted by haelikoth

pretty good move for MIcrosoft, but sadly, the pirates and modders will prolly find a way around it at some point.

as for my views on piracy, modding and stuff. i believe piracy is indeed stealing if you're downloading something you didn't pay for. making copies for personal use/backup purposes of legally bought items tho, imho shouldn't count as piracy.  modding for me varies depending if the manufacturer explicitly said that you can't mess with their stuff. like how some MMOs will ban you if they mess with the game client files, while some games open to mods (source engine stuff).

Modifying a software client that you don't "technically" own (you do, yes, but once you connect it to thier servers, they have the reight to refuse you) is very different than modifying the hardware on a physical item that you have bought and own. However, it still falls under the software arguement that I just said. Once you try to connect to thier servers, and use their stuff, all bets are off. You should be able to mod the crap out of your X-box, but Microsoft (and any other company) SHOULD have the right to block/ban you from using thier services with a modified box, because that is their property. The box, and it's contents, however, are yours to freely modify.

I'm getting tired of these people saying "they arn't losing money by me copying their music/game/movie/etc..."

Let's put in terms that you can understand then that will null and void said argument of "its just a copy"

If you spend 5 years developing a game and get it put out on the market and it sells for 50 dollars a pop. Now we will times that by 5 mill... comes out to 250,000,000... now lets say you see at most 10% of that... your looking at 25,000,000 dollars in your pocket... YAY IM RICH... thats the most boiled down version of it...

Now lets say you just made said game, sell it for 50 dollars a pop, but now instead of  5 million people buying it only 2 million buy it and the rest pirate it. Sell for a whopping 100,000,000 a lose of 150,000,000 dollars... for you that cames to 10,000,000.

Don't know about you... But I like to keep what i worked for. Yes those number are EXTREMLY exagerated.

But wouldn;t you as the developer look at that as theft? I mean you just spent 5 years of your life making this game and now 3 million people have a copy of said game and you didn't earn anything from it.

Why is it wrong? Because it is just as simple as making a copy of money... in a different way... By not spending money economy doesn't grow i agree that big buisnesses need to give a bit of the money back to the people who helped them get to where they are now. A lot of buisness do that to look good in the public eye as well... But to say "it isnt wrong" that jsut plain stupid. I guess stealing food to survive isn't wrong, i guess sneaking into a movie theater to watch a movie isnt wrong, i guess going over the speed limit isnt illegal either.

I'll admit ive downloaded music. No shocker there A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE.

but your saying stuff like "microsoft bans people cause they play like how they want and im agianst that" fine be that way... But id rather play a game the way it was ment to be played. Not be ruined by some idiot who thinks like you do. Fine you want a xbox 360 and mod hey thats fine. Do it. But you want to play on the internet and your mod gives you a advantage over some one else because it actualyl alters the programing *ex GAME SHARK, GAME GENIE, GAME PRO* Then how is it far for me when I havn;t moded my xbox 360. If you don't wanna get banned DONT MOD. Next time read the ToS and ToA

But frankly I'd do the same thing. get rid of people who want to make things harder for every one else

ToS = Terms of Service

ToA  = Terms of Agreement

 People for pirating are essentially saying that if they pirate something, the company doesn't lose money (no loss no gain) but they get to play.

You guys are f*cking retarded.

Would you hop on a public bus without paying, and when he asks why you didn't pay the fare, you just say "Oh if I get on, you don't lose money (no loss no gain) but I get to travel." Genius, really.

F*ck people are stupid. Go mow some lawns and pay the programmers for their SERVICE.

Well the thing is this didn't stop the pirates and it actually could have lost some money from MS. Just imagine if all of those people had gold live accounts that is just 50 million they could have just lost.  Most people who are smart enough to Mod their xbox knows that they can get banned from xbox live.  SO 1 mill out of the 31 million have modded out their stuff? That is just crazy. So now all these people still can burn games they just cant connect to live oh noes man that has to suck.lol not really when you can play all the free games you want.

MS should filed charges against them so each of them would be fined or be in jail.  Until something like that happens you know people will still do it.

You sound like every other person who thinks its right to steal... "i deserve it... i worked hard for it" B.S. Like i wanna hear "i think its right to steal to survive" WRONG... I have lived on the streets. There are places that gives out free palces to sleep, free food, and they even help you get your life back together.

All you are is a leacher and whinner that wants everything and given to him. It's people like you that make things harder for every one else. Go troll some where else. You already proven you have to try and insult and as far as forum posting goes. You got no skill there either. All im reading is a wall of text... and im done BYE... wall of text = useless babble.

Come up with something that actually has a rebutle and not something you think is right. MS banning people is their right. Music producers and bands suing P2P developers good for them. People getting put in jail for messing up 3rd time GOOD.

All your proving is that your lazy and want things given to you for free. Also learn to read forum rules. I don't wanna sit hear reading a wall of text or you cursing off to no end.

Well the thing is this didn't stop the pirates and it actually could have lost some money from MS. Just imagine if all of those people had gold live accounts that is just 50 million they could have just lost. Most people who are smart enough to Mod their xbox knows that they can get banned from xbox live. SO 1 mill out of the 31 million have modded out their stuff? That is just crazy. So now all these people still can burn games they just cant connect to live oh noes man that has to suck.lol not really when you can play all the free games you want.

MS should filed charges against them so each of them would be fined or be in jail. Until something like that happens you know people will still do it.
 

Hey more power to them. But hey if a person want's to waste money let them.

Frankly every ID tag on the x-box should have been perma banned as well. As for as the whole "File a lawsuit" goes... they will just find another way to get around it.

The only real way to stop it... Make every one suffer due to it. If you get put in prison and 1 person messes up... usually the entire block suffers from it. Good way to make enemies about it. If big buisness wants to stop punishing the people who want to buy the game along with the piraters. Then they could oh i don't know double the prices for the games. Hell I would if it hurts me... Then so be it.

Then that just means another buisness will come along and have the same treatment. Until there is a sure fire way to prevent it. Its never going to stop. Until we can get rid of every single lazy loafer who wants others to do stuff for them and get stuff for free cause they were abused as a child or some silly reason. Yea... never will happen.

An interesting sidebar to this conversation is that many of those banned Xboxes will end up being traded in and resold.  Buyer beware, since there's really no way to check if a box has been banned without actually attempting to connect to Xbox Live.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/11/cheap-to-good-home-used-360-pirated-games-slightly-banned.ars

~Ripper

If I remember right, i talked to a game stop employee and asked about that. While it does happen that a x-box slips through pirated, they usually test the system out thoughraly before reselling it. 

But yea better off buying a new x-box then a used one. Ive gotten a hold of used ones that were banned took them back for them to have to scrap the xbox as it now has zero resell value.

2 words to the people who got banned :

Good Ridance

Arrr, I am a pirate!

www.youtube.com/watch

Seriously though, I don't use pirated games because the risk of being banned is not worth it, but my heart goes out to these people. Someday in the future information will be free, created out of love of the art and given freely to everyone. This includes music, movies, books, ect anything that can be turned into data and put on the internet will be free. When that day comes people will look back at these "pirates" with pride in the human spirit to change what should be changed no matter what the "law" is.

I salute you Pirates!

 the world needs to crack down harder on criminals, cutting off thieves hands is highly effective, once you have no hands you have a hell of a time stealing anything.

Originally posted by Nirwyl

Arrr, I am a pirate!

www.youtube.com/watch

 

Seriously though, I don't use pirated games because the risk of being banned is not worth it, but my heart goes out to these people. Someday in the future information will be free, created out of love of the art and given freely to everyone. This includes music, movies, books, ect anything that can be turned into data and put on the internet will be free. When that day comes people will look back at these "pirates" with pride in the human spirit to change what should be changed no matter what the "law" is.

I salute you Pirates!

Really, this is incompatible within the capitalism, a total abomination to it so it will never happen with AAA games (as there's lots of games in the format you mentioned). Not the case of discussion here anyway, meanwhile we get charged more and more for purely digital stuff like DLCs, MMO item malls, so I think the trend is quite the opposite, especially as cloud computing becomes possible, if this becomes the norm of game distribution, we won't even own the digital copy of a game anymore so even piracy may become something impossible.

who plays on Xbox?

PS3 is the least someone could go..