Well, let's start with the four basic parts of a sandbox MMO: PvP, Crafting, PvE, and Exploration.

PvE: Well for a Western I guess they could come up with a few different ways to do this, but they would probably throw in Outlaw NPC's that you could get quests, or missions to kill, with a certain degree of storyline this could work pretty good. As for the dungeon crawlers they could use the settings of trains(where you have to kill the outlaws trying to take it over, or maybe take it over because it belongs to another faction, Gold Mines, and many other western settings. 

PvP: Well, this is pretty  self explanatory. Say at the beginning you choice to be an Indian, Cowboy, or an Outlaw, as the three basic factions. You could PvP in one of three different forms. First, Open World PvP could be really fun, as back in the Wild West days towns could have been sieged for many days at a time and this would also have an effect on the economy, of the overall game world. Second, Staged PvP, if you've ever seen any type of western a lot of the fights take place in an open desert well, this is how they would implement Staged PvP, and this staged pvp would come with great rewards such as better gear, or maybe even gold. Third, could be in the form of bounties where say one player of a certain faction is grieving another player of your faction, you could go to the bounty office, pick up the bounty, and hunt down your bounty, bring back some kind of proof you did kill him, and then claim your reward.

Exploration and Crafting: The reason I am putting these two together is because to be successful in some part of the crafting field you need to be a good explorer. Well, the first type of crafting would be making the food, milk, etc. You would have to have a good enough skill in exploration to be able to take a wagon out in the middle of nowhere and find a place to settle, grow crops, or herd cows. The second form would be, a type of early engineering. You would focus on either making guns, textiles, or building wagons. 

Well, that's my opinion on how a good Western MMO could be made, what do you think?

 Trigun/Borderlands-ish, fictional style would take off better than a true western-era MMO... unless if it was done similar to something like WWII

Brisco County Jr. Online. :D

But yeah I'd like to see a serious attempt at a western MMO.

When I think western MMO, I think sandbox.  There's no other way, and I'd like to see it done.

Originally posted by Lansid

 Trigun/Borderlands-ish, fictional style would take off better than a true western-era MMO... unless if it was done similar to something like WWII

^^^ This.  I would play the hell out of this. 

Or even something sililar to Wild Wild West would be cool.  At least then you're not completely tied down to reality and have some room to grow.

Ok... so you mean "western" as in the old wild west. It actually would make for a very interesting setting although it could be easy to spoil it with steampunk elements (nothing against steampunk by itself, just thought of a really bad movie). If fantasy/sci fi elements can be kept to a minimum and you could find enough enthusiasts to do without teleportation, world chat and similar devices you could have some very deep gameplay. Death is a problem however, as full loot permadeath (only option consistent with the lore) could itself be too much of a strain in what is already a restricted niche. Another problem is the whole "cowboys and indians" schtick, which you can't really base RvR on at the risk of encouraging bigotry.

The answer might lie in incorporating elements of Native American or Mexican folklore for death mechanics as well as a few necessary MMO features (such as healing). An outlook more becoming of contemporary films in the western genre (Eastwood's Unforgiven as an example) would also help in adding depth to the story. Representation of Native American beliefs and characters should avoid stereotypical imagery and the lore should be written with care to fairly portray their perspectives.

IMO, I've been waiting for a western MMO these days to be released because a lot of MMO's today are inspired with traditional Asian culture. I want a new one. A western type. Like an MMO that you would play as a cowboy or a thug. Something like that.

Originally posted by XanthosX

 Well, let's start with the four basic parts of a sandbox MMO: PvP, Crafting, PvE, and Exploration.

 

The word sandbox is where you instantly consign your game to the niche mmo market. It won't generate mainstream worldwide success. Games like the upcoming SW:TOR from Bioware are the new model: story-driven and immersive, linear with non-linear elements, solo friendly, but the group is out there if you want it, and inclusive content rather than elitist exclusive content.

When I think on western mmos most of the times it's always medieval with same old stuff that been done ages ago.

We need more western companies doing games that are fantasy medieval is soo old and done so many times that It's just ridiculus, can't they get any ideas on some new inovations?

East make fantasies (ex. Final Fantasy) west makes remakes of past games (ex. Dragon Age).

Honestly, no-one(a few not majority) wants a sandbox, full loot, pvp game. There a very few people that want this that is why all the games that come out fail big time. WOW, EQ2, and games like that are succesful because that is what main stream is. I would really like a western MMO myself. There is NO NEED what so ever to make it perma death, man talk about extriemists.

We all need a good NEW MMO, to each their own, if you like full loot pvp MO is almost ready to launch. If you are like the majority of the MMO players we have been Koreanized way to much lately. Instead of a WOW2 or EQ Next, a western MMO is like part of North American lore, many stories to make come true and settle the wild west.

Let the flaming by the 12 year olds begin now.

frontier1859.com/mmorpg/

Originally posted by hothnogg

frontier1859.com/mmorpg/

Thanks dude, it looks like it is very early in development but I will keep an eye on it.

It's a weird question to answer, there are already plenty of successful Western MMO.

Let the asians create it.

Originally posted by LuckyR

Honestly, no-one(a few not majority) wants a sandbox, full loot, pvp game. There a very few people that want this that is why all the games that come out fail big time. WOW, EQ2, and games like that are succesful because that is what main stream is. I would really like a western MMO myself. There is NO NEED what so ever to make it perma death, man talk about extriemists.

We all need a good NEW MMO, to each their own, if you like full loot pvp MO is almost ready to launch. If you are like the majority of the MMO players we have been Koreanized way to much lately. Instead of a WOW2 or EQ Next, a western MMO is like part of North American lore, many stories to make come true and settle the wild west.

Let the flaming by the 12 year olds begin now.

 

I don't agree in saying that there is a majority out there that favor sandbox over theme-park. Sure theme-park did catch on, but I believe the MMORPG is still a very  new industry and with its introduction to the masses through WoW/EQ (and possibly other games), I believe its still going to take the audience sometime to start developing more of an opinion for the industry and a set taste. There are probably many MMORPG players out there that haven't even been introduced to a sandbox yet alone what a sandbox even is pertaining to. 

I think given more time the whole MMORPG player population will start splitting apart into their niches and hopefully the industry will be there to cater to everyone (or as many of them) specializing in their tastes rather than trying to cater to a broader audience. 

With westerns, I can see how both a themepark or a sandbox can fit. I think most importantly is to really capture the environment of the wild west and the feel of it. To me, it would have to be an open PvP world but whether it is themepark or sandbox doesn't make a difference since games have to lay down rules for entertainment purposes (or from preventing others on cutting on it too much or entirely, which easily could happen in an open PvP world). In terms of realism, the permadeath is definitely too extreme and there should be ways implemented to retain whats earned (even upon death). 

Between choosing whether theme park or sandbox, I would say if you're looking to make a western MMORPG with many different activities involved outside of just combat, then the sandbox should be the best fit and could probably follow much like EVE's approach with more western elements (and implementations of systems as well like combat, it better be much faster). If the focus would be behind combat and showdowns, outlaws vs sheriffs type wars, I think a theme park would be a better fit even with instancing, battlegrounds etc. I also agree that the fantasy RPG elements have to be avoided to make something that should be unique (something outside the usual level, quest, kill boss in instance.) Anyone remember Dead Red Revolver?

While I would love to see one and I do know of atleast 1 that's been in developement for quite a while now; I think a pure wild west MMO would end up being a niche game just like PoTBS became. 

The player pool for it would never be that great and because of current world PC crap it couldn't be a pure wild west game but would end up with modern elements slipping in (woman soldiers, sheriff's, 'dirty red ..... uhhhh Native American's' etc.... ) and that would just be the tip of the icebreg.

You'd almost have to do a FIREFLY game to get a good player draw (sci-fi, show fans and wild west types), granted it wouldn't be a pure wild west game, but it would have better selling power to investors and players.

Originally posted by Nebless

While I would love to see one and I do know of atleast 1 that's been in developement for quite a while now; I think a pure wild west MMO would end up being a niche game just like PoTBS became. 

The player pool for it would never be that great and because of current world PC crap it couldn't be a pure wild west game but would end up with modern elements slipping in (woman soldiers, sheriff's, 'dirty red ..... uhhhh Native American's' etc.... ) and that would just be the tip of the icebreg.

You'd almost have to do a FIREFLY game to get a good player draw (sci-fi, show fans and wild west types), granted it wouldn't be a pure wild west game, but it would have better selling power to investors and players.

So Native Americans and strong women would be something new to the genre? Dude, you really are as ignorant of westerns as a film genre as you're about life. Relatable roles for both, while granted not the norm, were being made even in the John Wayne era. As for the role of the sheriff really...

i dont see a scope for a western mmorpg, it just doesnt have the feel of fantasy that sci fi and fantasy mmorpg's sustain :P it would end up at a fps which currently already exist in hundreds of ways mainly on x box 360

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by Nebless

The player pool for it would never be that great and because of current world PC crap it couldn't be a pure wild west game but would end up with modern elements slipping in (woman soldiers, sheriff's, 'dirty red ..... uhhhh Native American's' etc.... ) and that would just be the tip of the icebreg.

So Native Americans and strong women would be something new to the genre? Dude, you really are as ignorant of westerns as a film genre as you're about life. Relatable roles for both, while granted not the norm, were being made even in the John Wayne era. As for the role of the sheriff really...

No you missed my point, plus the call was for a 'pure' wild west game not a John Wayne film version game. 

For it to be truthful to the era you would have to have the prejedices that went with the times; Redskins / Injun's, Mexes, no women soldiers or women sheriffs etc.......  all items modern day dev's would stay away from.  Look at PoTBS - what was suppose to be a semi-historical game came out as a film pirate version game with women soldiers, black governers and town leaders etc.... all non historical elements.

Those that would really want to play a wild west game would generally be the more historically inclined and mixing in film version stuff so it's sellable in todays market would just tee them off.

As far as being ignorant of the genre no I'm not as I actually like the subject both on film and the history of.  And in looking at the history of the times.  Strong women - lot's of historical facts of women facing off Indian & bandit attacks, but not alot on them being city leaders or sheriff's.  Native Americans - there were bounties on Indians in many areas.  Those that wanted to open the land saw them in the same light as pests to be exterminated.  Mexicans - lots of mistrust there.  Blacks - a white man's word counted and would be believed more than an black man's. 

We are a people of prejudices and it very much showed back then.  Feel free to design a pure (which I took to mean a historical) western MMO and see if it sells.  Market a John Wayne, Firefly, Maverick or Bonanza game and you could get around those minor historical items and yes it would sell.

"First of all...Pilgrim...ya got to weed out all the tinhorns...<looks around at the player base>...And if this is all ya got...they don't look tough enough to stomp a stringy jack rabbit..."

The Duke,commenting on the possibilities of a Western MMO

Originally posted by pencilrick

"First of all...Pilgrim...ya got to weed out all the tinhorns...<looks around at the player base>...And if this is all ya got...they don't look tough enough to stomp a stringy jack rabbit..."

The Duke,commenting on the possibilities of a Western MMO

Excellent, well said!

Of the two choices; historical vs film version, I'd play the film version if only for the fact there'd be more players.  All numbers being equal, I'd rather play a historical version but we won't see that ever.

Just looked over the Frontier1859 that's linked here in the thread.  So that makes 2 Wild West MMO's in developement.  Tenderfoot games has one going too.

The combat engine portion of their game is listed here on the game forums and game list as Wild West Online: Gunfighter.  Just a shoot out type setup but a taste of what they're working towards.

 Step1: Make something original. Not some poor ripoff of another games lore or that plays exactly like another MMO. Make your own lore, think up some interesting races/classes, and actually put some damn thought into things for once before launching off with "HEY LETS MAKE MMO! *codecodecode*"

Step2: Stick with it! Don't suddenly start hamfisting features and crap from other games just because they're popular.

Step3: Pick an audience and once again, stick with it. Half of MMOs fail today because they decide to try to appeal to EVERYONE and end up just crapping all over all the features to make it happen so none of them are terribly interesting. 

Is it risky? Yeah, but this is how things used to be done, and we actually have games that were mildly interesting and that were distinct from one another rather than the horrible gray mush of MMOs we have now. 

The main problem is lack of variety.  Think fantasy MMOs are grindy?   Cut the amount of enemy/dungeon variety by more than 75% and that's what you'd end up with in a Western MMO.

I mean we're not talking about Western games only having 1 or 2 enemies.  A creative team can make a lot of stuff, but inevitably the genre itself is going to limit them from being as creative and varied as they could be in a fantasy MMO.

Originally posted by Axehilt

The main problem is lack of variety.  Think fantasy MMOs are grindy?   Cut the amount of enemy/dungeon variety by more than 75% and that's what you'd end up with in a Western MMO.

I mean we're not talking about Western games only having 1 or 2 enemies.  A creative team can make a lot of stuff, but inevitably the genre itself is going to limit them from being as creative and varied as they could be in a fantasy MMO.

Not necessarily. They could always make it a Sci-fI Western, similar to Firefly.