Originally posted by Dewm

BTW I see its in alpha, is there any way to get in on that? or when do you thin beta will be coming? 2 months...6? a year?

I have no idea when it will be to a beta stage. Once I get the battle manager done We will start doing stress tests of the server every once in a while through out development. We want to see how many people the servers can effectively handle for once we start working on the dynamic load balancing side of things. The goal is to have the server split the world up into sections based on population. So if for example you have the number set to 100 then once 100 people connected to the server it would split and hand off half the world load to a 2nd server who would then handle half the world and population, then once the population on one of the 2 servers got to 100 again then it would split that server in half and so on. The bigger the population the more servers it would have. Then as the population decreased the servers being used would also decrease. That way the world could pretty much handle a unlimited amount of people as long as we had the servers that could be used.

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

Originally posted by heartless

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

If you took the time to see the latest screenshots before judging you would have noticed that I have replaced the Player Models.

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by heartless

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

 

If you took the time to see the latest screenshots before judging you would have noticed that I have replaced the Player Models.

and then he would have realized it still looks like junk.

 Graphics are only half the battle, maybe even 1/4.

 As long as a game is fun, interging, and rewarding, those who genually love rpg's will still play it.

 Heck yeah I'd check it out... if it's a fun game and performed well enough to be playable, I'd play it. No question.

Also, kudos to taking on a project like that... and doing it from scratch no less. No small task.

Best of luck! Keep us updated :).

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by heartless

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

 

If you took the time to see the latest screenshots before judging you would have noticed that I have replaced the Player Models.

 

and then he would have realized it still looks like junk.

Well then you can go ahead and keep on playing the same old over used trash that AAA companies keep making while us indie developers take the chances at trying new innovative ideas. I don't expect every one to like the graphics heck I don't even like all the graphics and I am the one doing it but I know the whole engine is still a work in progress and they will just continue to get better. I don't have a multimillion dollar budget here but I am doing the best I can with what resources I have. So I wish you the best of luck playing whatever game it is you play and I will continue working on what I hope will one day be a decent game.

It's really refreshing to see a project like this from the ground up.  It can be a long haul, the road less travelled by, but well worth it.  In fact, once you start down that road, you'll probably find it nearly impossible to live/work/act any other way.

I don't know very much about video game development from a technical aspect, so I can't help you much there.  But I will say, I read the design doc and in there are things I've thought would be in MMOs by now.  Things like short-lived quests introduced randomly, NPCs who die, a world in constant transition, some of it determined by player interaction.  The technology seems to be there.  The fact that you don't see it implemented very much must say something.  1.) It must be labor-intensive to maintain the constant changes, and so, expensive.  2.) Players don't really want that.  3.) It's just not worth the headache.  4.) Countless other things...

1 and 3 are  mostly business decisions, not creative.  But it's possible that it's just not realistic to pop quests in on the run repeatedly.  Again, I really don't know from a technical aspect, just speculating, but  I can imagine any number of scenarios that de-stabilize a client or make for funky bugs.  For instance, you put a quest in and instead of the player getting 10 gold, they get a million.  Now, that's an exaggeration, but you see what I'm saying.  Constantly writing those quests, checking for bugs, and keeping track of them over time could be hugely labor intensive and possibly just not realistic.  Will you be able to have quests ready to react to real-time game events as you mentioned?  And that's just the questing.  What about world events, cities being conquered, towns overrun?  Is it feasible?  Just asking, I have no idea.

Now, reason 2 is an interesting one.  A lot of time people say they want things in games like these, like perma-death.  But more often than not, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  Usually, the squeaky wheels are the ones who say, "Why did you only put such and such quest in for 6 hours on a Tuesday evening?  I have to work Tuesday evenings and so now I'll never be able to get my Tight White Pants of Travolta.  Thanks a lot for ruining my life, @#$@%^.  I quit."

To which I'd love to reply, "Bye."  But the reality is, that's who these games pander to.  "Give em what they want" is more often the motto than "Whatever's best for the game."  Can you deal with/ignore the cries you might hear?  Are you prepared to have it limit your sales?

I really like some of your ideas and have thought it would be fun to tinker in a world like that.  Also, it's interesting to see the tech people/artists offering help.  You might just be on to a grassroots/organic start to something really unique.  I hope so.

One or two words of advice, though, take them as you will.

You might want to stop posting info on a general board like this.  Open your own  board or meeting place if you can, and use these boards to invite people there so you can monitor them somewhat.  First off, I'd hate to see you get jaded and lose steam on this.  Here, any drive-by poster can take a potshot in 2 seconds on something that's taken you years to develop.  I can already see it wearing on you a bit, as is natural.  It could even completely discourage you from continuing, which would be a real loss.   Is it worth it answering questions over and over about something that will be changed dozens of times or might just be a placeholder now?

Also, as hard as it might be to believe, someone might actually steal some of your ideas here and copyright them before you have a chance to create anything.  It happens all the time in the creative arts.  Never pitch a movie/book/show without having copyrights.  I know you've been pretty general here, but who knows where you'll head.  In Dark Age of Camelot, Mythic trademarked "Realm versus Realm" gameplay to describe their PvP.  Now, they're the only company that's allowed to use that phrase to describe it that way in a game.  It's not out of the question you could lose some innovations down the road.  Just saying, it doesn't seem worth the risk to share stuff like that here.  Even though you've been working on this for a couple of years or more, this project still seems very much in the early stages, and you need to protect it and your vision of it.

I hope you succeed in bringing something to fruition.  If you're able to maintain your passion, you'll see like-minded people come out of the woodwork, as they're already starting to do.  Good luck.

Originally posted by KappenWiz

It's really refreshing to see a project like this from the ground up.  It can be a long haul, the road less travelled by, but well worth it.  In fact, once you start down that road, you'll probably find it nearly impossible to live/work/act any other way.

I don't know very much about video game development from a technical aspect, so I can't help you much there.  But I will say, I read the design doc and in there are things I've thought would be in MMOs by now.  Things like short-lived quests introduced randomly, NPCs who die, a world in constant transition, some of it determined by player interaction.  The technology seems to be there.  The fact that you don't see it implemented very much must say something.  1.) It must be labor-intensive to maintain the constant changes, and so, expensive.  2.) Players don't really want that.  3.) It's just not worth the headache.  4.) Countless other things...

1 and 3 are  mostly business decisions, not creative.  But it's possible that it's just not realistic to pop quests in on the run repeatedly.  Again, I really don't know from a technical aspect, just speculating, but  I can imagine any number of scenarios that de-stabilize a client or make for funky bugs.  For instance, you put a quest in and instead of the player getting 10 gold, they get a million.  Now, that's an exaggeration, but you see what I'm saying.  Constantly writing those quests, checking for bugs, and keeping track of them over time could be hugely labor intensive and possibly just not realistic.  Will you be able to have quests ready to react to real-time game events as you mentioned?  And that's just the questing.  What about world events, cities being conquered, towns overrun?  Is it feasible?  Just asking, I have no idea.

Now, reason 2 is an interesting one.  A lot of time people say they want things in games like these, like perma-death.  But more often than not, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  Usually, the squeaky wheels are the ones who say, "Why did you only put such and such quest in for 6 hours on a Tuesday evening?  I have to work Tuesday evenings and so now I'll never be able to get my Tight White Pants of Travolta.  Thanks a lot for ruining my life, @#$@%^.  I quit."

To which I'd love to reply, "Bye."  But the reality is, that's who these games pander to.  "Give em what they want" is more often the motto than "Whatever's best for the game."  Can you deal with/ignore the cries you might hear?  Are you prepared to have it limit your sales?

I really like some of your ideas and have thought it would be fun to tinker in a world like that.  Also, it's interesting to see the tech people/artists offering help.  You might just be on to a grassroots/organic start to something really unique.  I hope so.

One or two words of advice, though, take them as you will.

You might want to stop posting info on a general board like this.  Open your own  board or meeting place if you can, and use these boards to invite people there so you can monitor them somewhat.  First off, I'd hate to see you get jaded and lose steam on this.  Here, any drive-by poster can take a potshot in 2 seconds on something that's taken you years to develop.  I can already see it wearing on you a bit, as is natural.  It could even completely discourage you from continuing, which would be a real loss.   Is it worth it answering questions over and over about something that will be changed dozens of times or might just be a placeholder now?

Also, as hard as it might be to believe, someone might actually steal some of your ideas here and copyright them before you have a chance to create anything.  It happens all the time in the creative arts.  Never pitch a movie/book/show without having copyrights.  I know you've been pretty general here, but who knows where you'll head.  In Dark Age of Camelot, Mythic trademarked "Realm versus Realm" gameplay to describe their PvP.  Now, they're the only company that's allowed to use that phrase to describe it that way in a game.  It's not out of the question you could lose some innovations down the road.  Just saying, it doesn't seem worth the risk to share stuff like that here.  Even though you've been working on this for a couple of years or more, this project still seems very much in the early stages, and you need to protect it and your vision of it.

I hope you succeed in bringing something to fruition.  If you're able to maintain your passion, you'll see like-minded people come out of the woodwork, as they're already starting to do.  Good luck.

thanks for this well thought out response. I have been working on RoH from a design and idea stand point for 2 or 3 years. The ideas in the design doc. are just that they are ideas and things I would like to see in a MMO. How much of the things will be included I have no idea at this point. I really hope I am able to include all of them but theres just no way of knowing right now. The intended market for RoH are the hardcore RPGers. I am fully aware that there are things in the design that your common 10 year old WoW player would not like but thats not the demographic I am targeting. I have no desire to water the game play down to maximize subscriptions. I have no publisher or shareholders breathing down my neck wanting me to squize every penny possible out of this game and thats the way I intend to keep it.

So where am I going from here? My goals between now and March is to get the engine and server to the point that  I have a small Island Demo up and running. The demo will be used for a testing ground for the new systems I design and will be able to be used for the stress tests. Once I have the demo running we will start stress testing the server every once and a while. If you would like to keep up to date on when stress tests will be you can join our forum and I will be posting updates on there. If you would like to give ideas or feed back you can do so on our forum as well. Here is a direct link to our technology development section: http://www.riseofheroesmmo.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=eb1c13dd5436b7687092ca760dd9939c

If everything goes according to planned in a few months we will have a virtual world we can all meet in and I really hope to see you  and every one else who has taking a interest in this project in there for our first stress test!

Those are decent graphics for something you are doing yourself. However, I have to be honest, and I am more likely to play something made by a large team, because it will have more polish than something you can do on your own, in all likelyhood. However, I would certainly give it a shot, and I would play it if the gameplay was fun and the story was something I could get into.

The backgrounds work I guess, it could use some grass and other plants and some shading but otherwise I played worse.

The character model however needs a lot of improvements. The people and monsters are the most important feature of a MMO.

I like the church, good work on it. :)

If the game is fun enough and you fix up the char models I would play.

As a graphics student (2d and 3d), I can honestly say that this is a good jumping off point.  Could use a bit more texture work here and there, and maybe a further draw distance, but this is just the beginning.  Very good work so far, sir.

Just remember, optimize the sh!t out of it.  Then optimize it some more.  Playability is more important than graphics, especially at this stage.

Looks like you are off to a great start! I would play it in its current state if it were free and the gameplay was super good. keep up the good work.

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by heartless

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

 

If you took the time to see the latest screenshots before judging you would have noticed that I have replaced the Player Models.

 

and then he would have realized it still looks like junk.

 

Well then you can go ahead and keep on playing the same old over used trash that AAA companies keep making while us indie developers take the chances at trying new innovative ideas. I don't expect every one to like the graphics heck I don't even like all the graphics and I am the one doing it but I know the whole engine is still a work in progress and they will just continue to get better. I don't have a multimillion dollar budget here but I am doing the best I can with what resources I have. So I wish you the best of luck playing whatever game it is you play and I will continue working on what I hope will one day be a decent game.

The problem with indie developers is that they are under the assumption that we should cut them some slack because they are "indie." So they release a POS game like Darkfall and expect people to shell out full price for it. Then when a site like Eurogamer gives them a bad review score, they flip out and start a flame war.

If you can't handle the critique, you shouldn't be making a game in the first place.

Edit: It's not the fact that the graphics are outdated. It's the fact that they are bland and completely generic. You should really sit down and consider which art direction you want to take your game. I'm sorry to be mean and I hope it doesn't discourage you from continuing with your project but it is what it is.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by JamesP

Originally posted by heartless

Would I play an MMO with those graphics? HELL NO! But look on the bright side, at least you got a ninja.

 

If you took the time to see the latest screenshots before judging you would have noticed that I have replaced the Player Models.

 

and then he would have realized it still looks like junk.

 

Well then you can go ahead and keep on playing the same old over used trash that AAA companies keep making while us indie developers take the chances at trying new innovative ideas. I don't expect every one to like the graphics heck I don't even like all the graphics and I am the one doing it but I know the whole engine is still a work in progress and they will just continue to get better. I don't have a multimillion dollar budget here but I am doing the best I can with what resources I have. So I wish you the best of luck playing whatever game it is you play and I will continue working on what I hope will one day be a decent game.

The problem with indie developers is that they are under the assumption that we should cut them some slack because they are "indie." So they release a POS game like Darkfall and expect people to shell out full price for it. Then when a site like Eurogamer gives them a bad review score, they flip out and start a flame war.

If you can't handle the critique, you shouldn't be making a game in the first place.

Edit: It's not the fact that the graphics are outdated. It's the fact that they are bland and completely generic. You should really sit down and consider which art direction you want to take your game. I'm sorry to be mean and I hope it doesn't discourage you from continuing with your project but it is what it is.

The more feedback I get the better I can make the engine. The thing that really has made me mad is that even after I say that its not the character model that I am looking for feedback on because the character model is just a stand in and is not the one that will be used people still tell me how much the character model sucks. I am fully aware that the character model sucks. I have recently with in the past couple days changed the character model as you can see from the newest screenshots but it stil isn't all that good. I am a programmer not a 3D modeler so until I have the server and client to a working state and I  am ready to get help with it I am stuck using whatever models I can find kicking around. Now with the new Character model I also got my hands on a bunch of Environment models, Structures, animals, and other things that with the addition of Bump maping and other kinds of texturing could look pretty nice but I need an artist in order to be able to add those other types of textures.

No thanks man. I remember games from the Famicom console. Hahaha!

No I wouldn't play a game with those graphics.  I am not a graphic whore by any means, but the quality of those graphics are extremely sub par.  If the graphics are at this level, most likely other aspects of the game will also be at this level, and frankly there are just too many other games out there which will look and play better. 

I read the ops idea for the game and honestly, it gave me a boner...

 No. Gfx and sound is 50% for me and 50% is the gameplay. So playing one without good gfx would, for me, to be like playing half a game.

doesnt look that great tbh but cant really comment with the mass followers of runescape .....