Majority of humanity does not want to play a game where they lose their stuff constantly.

When someone plays for 3 hours and gets ganked, their first thoughts are "Why am I paying $14.95 a month for this?"

You're safe to go outside, with all your possessions, because of society's police and law enforcement. Prison is a huge deterant to crime. There's an incredibly low chance you'll get robbed.

But in games, that's completely different because there are no real consequences.

SO... the moment you *murder* someone and turn PK, you have perma-death on your character.
The moment you enter the *thieves* guild, you have perma-death on your character.
And it's not easy to skill up to a competitive level (thief or murderer).

To prevent people from accidentally killing each other, there is no "turning grey" or "turning red".

There's simply a "guild" system. You visit an npc, and join the "thieves guild" or the "Evil guild" and thus are flagged for perma-death, but also ability to attack anyone or steal from anyone. The rest of the world has no way of knowing  you are in this guild. To prevent people from hitting others just to test if they are PK's or Thieves (exploiting) there could be a system placed where you have to know (they're flagged via your character's history, what they or your party has seen, etc.)

A simple system of if they have attacked you or attacked someone near you before, you can attack them freely bc you KNOW their face. If you're in a party, you can attack them too because your party member TEMPORARILY shares their "I know that guy! Get him!!!" while if you did not find out they were marked as PK during gameplay with the party, you lose the knowledge (and thus unable to attack them) because you never actually knew (you didnt share minds, only temporarily share party).

If a PK is attacked, it immeditely flags him to everyone around him (as if the player shouted "GET HIM, HE'S AN OUTLAW!" or "STOP! THIEF!!!!"

 This protects PK's from exploits but people can still get them, or at least can get them when they "go grey" by attacking or stealing from an innocent. PK vs PK does not flag them.

This would give everyone what they want.

1) A safe environment.
2) A realistic environment.
3) Hardcore players the ability to have FFA , full-loot PvP and it being just THAT much more hardcore bc of Perma-Death.

Carebears and Hardcores live together in perfect harmony. Afterall, carebears won't complain they lost all their stuff when they KNOW that if they put a bounty on someone's head, or get revenge- it's PERMANENT.

That's 10-100 hours of gameplay that you took away from the thief/murderer by killing his character off. Talk about satisfaction!

Getting away with murder....having SO much loot.... all at the risk of perma-death. Now THATS satisfaction!

Go out and make the game you want, that'd be great.

Perma-death will never work, and it's been beat to death. There's not even a niche for it because the game would be boring, followed by total devestation when you actually get into a fight and lose.

I've played a number of FFA PvP games and I enjoy the challenge, and don't mind losing my stuff. I'd rather win, but the challenge wouldn't be the same without the risk, to me. Perma death would take away my favorite part of MMO, and that's developing my character.

Originally posted by asdar

Perma-death will never work, and it's been beat to death. There's not even a niche for it because the game would be boring, followed by total devestation when you actually get into a fight and lose.

 

-_-

you miss the entire point.

Perma-death is as large a deterant as IRL crime deterants (Jail, Death Penalty, Thousands of Police Officers and FBI agents).

 Also, this is NOT perma-death for everyone. Only PK's and Thieves get perma-death. Everyone else can die over and over again, without penalty.

It allows the niche (yes, there IS a niche for both FFA pvp w/ loot and perma-death) and a realistic environment.

In fact.. this is about as realistic as you can possibly get. Perma-death for PK's and Thieves only (Or massive jailtime, such as unplayable for a week or month) would be  huge deterant, but still providing everyone will fun gameplay.

also, many people would purposefully make *thief* characters just to goof-off when they're bored. Thus the thief being killed is not a very big deterant.

If you think perma-death would scare off even the "hardcore" players (which is false) it could be disabling of characters (Jailtime after death) instead of perma-death.

This way someone can be a PK or a Thief, but suffers severe consquences for it. So if a thief is caught and killed, he is unplayable for a week IRL time. It's not that big of a problem, but it IS a huge deterant. Only those focused on being solely a thief will have 8 different thief characters all highly skilled.

Originally posted by asdar
Perma death would take away my favorite part of MMO, and that's developing my character.

 

You can't have both FFA PvP & Full Loot and No consequences for PK's.

If you want that, you're even more niche than the perma-death crowd.

Go play Darkfall.

Originally posted by asdar

Perma-death will never work,

 

Also, you're wrong.

There are already MMO's all over that have perma-death, and they DO work.

They have thousands of players.

Just goes to show...

Originally posted by Angelof2070

Originally posted by asdar

Perma-death will never work,

 

 

Also, you're wrong.

There are already MMO's all over that have perma-death, and they DO work.

They have thousands of players.

Just goes to show...

and there are games with FFA PvP and full loot and no perma-death that have hundreds of thousands of players (EVE),

just goes to show?

Originally posted by Angelof2070

Majority of humanity does not want to play a game where they lose their stuff constantly...

Then dont fucking play them then. Stick to games that dont have FFA and full loot, and leave those of us who do like those games to enjoy them as they are.

In return, we wont whine on and on that your meaningless item-grindathons dont have full loot and PvP and we wont make retarded suggestions about them.

Deal?

Originally posted by Angelof2070

Originally posted by asdar
Perma death would take away my favorite part of MMO, and that's developing my character.

 

 

You can't have both FFA PvP & Full Loot and No consequences for PK's.

If you want that, you're even more niche than the perma-death crowd.

Go play Darkfall.

He is playing Darkfall kid

Originally posted by Angelof2070

Originally posted by asdar
Perma death would take away my favorite part of MMO, and that's developing my character.

 

 

You can't have both FFA PvP & Full Loot and No consequences for PK's.

If you want that, you're even more niche than the perma-death crowd.

Go play Darkfall.

The "consequence" is that the "PKs" can be killed and looted in their turn. Someone ganked your rich crafter? Hire some merc (all FFA games have them) to gank the perp a few times. Join a clan/corp that can offer you protection. Band together. Deal with the issue yourself instead of whining for the devs to give you special treatment for your playstyle.

What if the PKs said that to make the game fair that any crafters have to sell their goods to non crafters at minimum prices? After all, you cant have a working economy if people can only ever get richer and richer and never lose anything, right?

While I agree that FFA PVP and full loot aren't my thing...

1) I aknowledge that some people love that.  EvE seems to be dong pretty well for itself.

2) If you're going to punish people for taking advantage of a game mechanic, why bother to put it in?

I feel the OP has brought an interesting concept to the table: punishment for "immoral" behavior.  Having criminal characters be incarcerated after defeat for a short time would create a pretty unique environment for a FFA PvP game.  I could imagine creating an outlaw just for the adrenaline rush that would come about from participating in illegal activities in game.

I like the idea i think maybe having the thieves/killers guild is abit different maybe the approach is if you steal or kill someone then the victim can put a bounty on your head whether it be paid or fame based and therefor anyone taking up the bounty can hunt and perma kill that player.

So if you are part of your own evil guild you can rely on the protection of each other and have a time limit on the bounty but obviously multiple bounties can be placed on your head and the time limit only decreases while your online so you cant go play an alt for a couple of days or whatever as the time limit will not decrease if the character is offline.

and npc's can give hints to last known wherabouts

The whole carebear thing doesnt make sense to me I dont enjoy being ganked PK'd for no reason whatsoever i find it annoying if someone runs up to me for no reason and kills me without a word id atleast like someone to threaten me before killing me in FFAPVP then i would not have an issue with being PK'd

Just my opinions on the situation

Originally posted by nAAtimus

I feel the OP has brought an interesting concept to the table: punishment for "immoral" behavior.

Immoral as he defines it, that is. The concept he's bringing to the table is that he wants everyone to play in the way he approves of and he wants the devs to enforce his vision.

There are games that follow this philosophy, plenty of them in fact. He can play any or all of them. There are games that prefer to allow their players a choice, and that's what he seems to be upset about. He doesn't have to play those games if he doesn't want to, but what he wants is for no-one else to play them either. Pretty sad really: he can't cope with freedom; he can't even bear other people having it.

So the only way to add FFA PvP is to make sure no one does it because it's not worth it?

Then what's the point in having it as a game feature?

It would be used when people are bored and ready to quit the game, or by bored 12 year olds that have the time and focus to level character after character after character to gank someone because they have nothign else to do.