Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Gameloading

And how much of those servers are used at any given time and how much of those are filled up?

Woops. I forgot, you don't actually have those numbers.

 

AIon Korea: 41 servers for 400 K players.

China Korea in its first week 113 servers for 1 M players.

NA: 14 servers EU : 18 servers

Any more proof ?

BTW WOW has 596 servers out of China.

And ... NCSoft in its latest Q report doen't mention the number of China servers anymore ...

Sad, realy sad you are up to defend those Koreans in view of the fact what a game they made.

 

41 servers for 400k players doesn't mean that the servers can only hold up 400k players.
 

Exactly, it's the numbers that are avaible for the players, not required.

As you don't know how much of the servers are used. for example, it could be that in Korea, 30% of the servers capicity on average is used and in the west 50% of the server capicity is used because they have just as many players, just fewer servers. But these are all hypothetical numbers.

As long as you don't have the actual numbers, you don't have an argument. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Gameloading

Exactly, it's the numbers that are avaible for the players, not required.

As you don't know how much of the servers are used. It could very well be that in Korea, 30% of the servers capicity on average is used and in the west. 50% of the server capicity is used because they have just as many players, just fewer servers. But these are all hypothetical numbers.

As long as you don't have the actual numbers, you don't have an argument. 

 

14NA and 18NA servers mean an absolut MAX capacity in subs of 300K
 

Operational servers - they will NEVER operate in stress test situations : hold 3 to 4 K players concurrently.

Everyone knows the log in ratio of subscribers is from 25 to 30%: So I explained to you all (without ANY insults I might add).

WHY ... there were 41 Korean servers to serve 400 K Korean players (subs)

And WHY ... there were 113 servers to server ... 1 Million Chinese playing it in the first week of the May launch over there.

And WHY there are 596 servers to host a max capacity of 6 M WOW players.

And btw like I said : a SQL server is a SQL server is a SLQ server (and both Lotro (11 EU servers btw) and WOW upgraded their server parc in the summer of 2008).

Why even discuss these simply known facts, everyone should know. ?

Why ignore those numbers ?

It ALL fits the bill. Now reread my Xfire comments;.. and it all fits:.

As a home excercise: I would you all to look for the currrent NA servers of War .... and look how they relate to the supposed 50K players over there. Surprise ... it has 5 servers left.

 

I'm going to try to explain this one more time for you.

You once claimed NCsoft of Korea mentioned the servers can hold up to 7k players. There is no reason to assume that the servers can only hold 3k or 4k players just to avoid stress, so we're going to go with a cap of 7k players.

There are 32 servers for Europe and the US. This means that, if 7k people is the cap, the servers can hold up 224k players at the same time. That is concurrent players, not active players. the 400k number is total people playing the game, not people playing at the exact same time.

Ofcourse the servers never actually reach 224k spots used because people play at different times and there are timezones to take into account.

Why they have 41 servers? Could be a lot of reasonss. MMORPG servers aren't water cans that you can fill up with water and once is full you go up to the next one. Server merging isn't always an option either. For example, If all servers are filled up to 60% of their max capicity, you can't merge them.

Also, the 30 percent claim has never been proven.

It doesn't help your argument when at the same post you claim that xfire stats show a crystal clear picture of Aion's status and at the same time claim that the same stats are distorted, manipulated and tampered with. It's either one or the other.

Either the stats can be projected in order to predict the total population and trends, or they are not. Not both.

Zorndorft, You have no evidence for any of your claims.
All of your points are nothing more than assumptions. Lets go over all the assumptions you made here

- NCsoft don't actually use the 7k number that was a previous assumption.
- Mark Jacobs once mentions 30% on average of total players played WAR concurrently, so this must mean this counts for every mmorpg imaginable, completely ignoring many factors.
- Xfire represents the entire gaming community of Aion.
- Amazon represent sales of all stores across the US and Europe.

Go ahead and post the so called article of a famous korean journalist so I can correct you on that one too.

In so many words you're repeating what I quoted, that you believe that the xfire results are both accurate and inaccurate at the same time.

Which makes AIon the devil and you the evangelist of the truth.

All of your other assumptions have already been completely destroyed so i'm going to destroy the last one too: Saying the 3.5 million number was false.

Actually, it being false is nothing more than an assumption on your part, ofcourse with no actual evidence.

The claim came from an article in IGN which mentioned when talking about an Australian distributer. Distributer obviously have access to the numbers as knowing how well a game does in certain markets is important before deciding to distribute or not.

Now NCsoft never confirmed it and so you claimed the claim was false, nevermind the fact you have zero evidence to prove the contrary.

Then again, we know you don't care much about evidence and facts.

 I should stop playing Aion because its X-Fire numbers went down.......(sarcasm)

 I played AION since beta in EU servers, great graphics, great environment, but anything new in the series of games NCsoft. Perhaps the wings to chars look more angelic maybe :) ...

New game, sales success... but he failed to captivate me to stay, and the series of problems of access to servers, support for the player,  who was a hell,  helped me get out.

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

IF those claims were true ...

NCsoft would have been idiots NOT to confirm them.

IF Aion had those subs NCsoft would be sreaming off the roofs (they even screamed when 60% of the "X"  is on line concurrently).

And MY previous 4 points sums it up quite nicely.

If you gentlemen want to defend these kind of policies. Be my guest.

It shows you're in the pockets of the Korean already when evident facts like EVIDENT number of servers, Aion sold through Xfire and lacking amazon.com sales are ignored.

-----------------------------------

You still forget to mention one thing: How do you explain I predicted the 16NA/18EU servers a week before EU launch (when they said they would launch with 12/12°/

I used the exact same fomulas I am using now .....

And no I don't have a crystal ball. I KNOW this industry inside out.

Be my guest and see the predictions I gave to AOC and WAR.

ALWAYS on spot.... MONTHS before the official subs or "player" numbers became confirmed.

Let's say, it's a hobby and I say: 250K subs max for Aion as from this very moment (even WITH the tampered Xfire sales).

My water says even less, but I can't prove anything less, since the Korean isn't that stupid as Mark Jacobs in doing the "hide and seek" game concerning subs.

 

Zorndorf,

I agree with you, the problem is most the children your trying to explain it to will not understand. My suggestion is to let time go by and watch Aion self destroy like Darkfall did. One great example was Tabula Rasa, the fanbui's used to argue in the same manner and hail the game as the holy of all holy games BUT look at it now! Closed! AoC, WAR both had much larger subs and sold MUCH larger boxed units in stores YET look at them now!

Aion will be lucky if they end up with 50k Western Subs by Q3 of 2010 and you can quote me on that!

Insults flying back and forth don't win arguments. Or support.

It's always fun to see someone panic when losing an argument and resorting to name-calling. I don't think it's a good idea if you're trying to convince anyone though ^^.

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

So situation Korea is clear....

400.000 players on Korean 42 servers ... does NOT mean there are the same number of characters.

1 player has always several chararcters in a 1 year old MMO. Probably several at end game too.

BTW 400K was the last official number of ... NCsoft themselves and indeed playing on 41 (now 42) servers.

Tx .... you just proved what NCsoft said: 400K Korean players (not characters) on 42 servers.

NA has 14 and EU has 18 servers . So do the calculations yourselves.

:))))

I just mentioned "excluding all other players below the level of 50."  Just the ones 50 on Siel specifically is over 10k.  Please just explain to me.  Where does this 10k subs per 1 server come from?  
 

YOU HAVE BEEN ARGUING THE LAST 2 MONTHS THAT IT'S SPECIFICALLY LIMITED TO 10K SUBS PER SERVER. 

The subs and active account numbers are clearly above 10k in that server.  So do explain, please.  Where is this 10k max capacity sub per 1 server limit you talk of?

Don't change the subject.  You have been clear all this time, and every time.  10k subs per 1 server.  But there is clearly over 10k subs on that particular server. 

Does anyone playing Aion feel the game world is large enough to support 7,000 players logged in at the same time? 

Just a question, because most high level players seem to think the game world is rather small. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

In fact your post proves that there are ... 348K  characters being played on 42 servers at the highest levels in a ONE year old mmo....

It is MORE proof than anything else the common rule of 10K players to 1 server (non concurrent) is holding true.

In a one year old MMO, how many avatars most players have ? 2 or 3? How many characters have YOU ?

And as I said the early NCsoft reports spoke of these 400K active Korean players on 41 servers. Since that time (9 months ago) , they added one Korean server.

SO in fact your just proves 350K active players are playing their avatars in the end game ... on 42 servers.

... You proved my point that the NCsoft figures were right ... for Korea: 400K players for approx 41/42 servers.

10Ksubs  to 1 server. Of which 30% is playing concurrently. At peak times that's around 4K on average.

 

Did I ever deny 400k subs in Korea?  

I am asking you where you got the 10k subs per 1 server theory. 

Because clearly there are some servers with only 3-5k level 50s.  How do you explain this?  And no, they aren't new servers.
 

You're still not answering my question directly. 

Siel server for example has over 10k subs.  Not limited to exactly 10k subs. 

So your theory of being limited to 10k subs per 1 server is indeed wrong. 

As an approximate, yes 10k subs on "average" per 1 server is correct. 

However, your arguement all this time, on this thread and the other thread was that sub numbers were exactly limited to 10k per 1 server.

Don't change your wording to justify yourself.  I am asking you where you got the 10k subs per 1 server exact limit.

You have been blabbering nonsense that realm MMOs have 10k sub max capacity per server this whole damn time. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

The number of CHARACTERS being played is irrelevant to the subscriptions.

As a matter of fact your Average shows that 350K hi level characters are being played on 42 Korean servers in a one year old game.

Most players staying that long have at least 1 hi end character if not 2. And they log on (mostly) with that character AND of course - some alts - some of which already maxed out too.

So I don't know why you are fighting the official figures of NCsoft for Korea yourself. 400K players for 41 servers almost a year ago.

It just proves that 360K characters being played now is not out of line with what NCsoft themselves said 9 months ago.

 I always speak of "average" btw. 10K on average subscriptions for 1 server. Average. Your TOTAL subs have an AVERAGE of 1 server per 10K subs (spread all over the place).

You post proves almost the NCsoft statements.

Now you highlight and say on "average". 

Well guess what.  Go back to your previous posts on the other Aion subscription thread.  The whole argument was whether or not the 10k subscription number was the max capacity per server.  And you kept denying that more than 10k subs could exist per server. 

And I don't give a rat's ass about NCsoft, so stop posting your overglorified knowledge on NCsoft.

One more thing to add.  NCsoft released a statement a year ago after two months into Open beta that they were going to increase the account limit per server for specific servers to 14k, servers such as Siel, Kashinel, and Zikel. 

Now if you don't understand mine and everyone else's argument.  It was whether or not sub numbers were limited to 10k per server. 

And the answer is "NO".  In cases of Zikel and Siel, total account number is 14k, which include non active and active accounts. 

You're the one who kept denying the possibility of 10k+ subs per server.

Stop changing the subject. 

The subject is whether or not a single server is limited to 10k subs. 

I never said your hypothesis that Korea has approximately 400k subs in their 41 servers was wrong did I?  (which is 42 now)

I was asking you where you got the idea that a server absolutely cannot have above 10k subscriptions per server. 

You denied to answer my questions directly and gave some stupid estimate of the whole picture which I never denied in the first place.

You simply did not accept the fact that a single server can have over your estimate of 10k subscriptions. 

I'm sorry but, you either don't read other people's posts thoroughly, or simply put, you're in complete denial of other's opinions.

 Play nice folks:  argue the points, not the person.

Originally posted by Zorndorf  

Aion is SOLD by NCsoft on Xfire.

Meaning every copy sold of it through Xfire has Xfire installed on Aion.

So it's 5th or 6th place on Xfire is meaningless, when you compare that place with other games NOT sold through Xfire.

It being sold on Xfire, I doubt, has as much impact as you seem to think it does.

1.  As another poster pointed out, just because they have xfire installed on their machine doesn't necessarily mean they're running it.  Heck, they might've installed it to buy the game and get the in-game goodies, then uninstalled Xfire.  Sounds like something I'd do.

2.  Just because they have Xfire installed on their machine, doesn't necessarily mean that they bought their copy of Aion on Xfire.  Quite rarely the case, I'd bet.

While I think it's a valid point to note Xfire numbers as a TREND, I don't think it accurately reflects demographic population.  Being the first weekend of Dragon Age being out, my current mainstay LotRO saw alot less love from me over the past few days.  It probably won't see me very often until the SoM expansion releases.  But I'm definitely going to remain subbed.  How would that look if I were on Crossfire?

Yes, there are probably alot fewer people playing now, but the effects on sub numbers and whatnot won't be known for a few months yet.  When people buy a new game, they play it all the time; after a while, they don't play as much.  Now, there are other new games out, so Aion and many other games are going to the backburner.  Just because you play Aion less doesn't mean you're gonna cancel your sub.

It is interesting to see where Aion and CO are sitting in box pricing, already.  $25.99 for either title, after less than 2 months?  It usually takes about 6 months to hit those prices.  There's obviously some overstock out there.

Quick question, where is everyone getting their numbers? Last I've heard, NC didn't release any official numbers and from what I can see; when I look at the stock market, it aint that bad. They peaked when the game released and are now dropping at the expected rate. So this means, the product release was pretty good.

From what I can see from inside or outside the market of NCsoft, it's positive. 

So I'm really not sure where this entire thread is trying to get at.

XFIRE is good to followTrends and as most FPS players would say, it's mostly useful to FPS players... Xfire allows us to track each other and follow each other on servers. What's the next argument, Steam community group size?

Originally posted by Robsolf

It is interesting to see where Aion and CO are sitting in box pricing, already.  $25.99 for either title, after less than 2 months?  It usually takes about 6 months to hit those prices.  There's obviously some overstock out there.

Is that price accurate?  Is Aion really selling for $26 now?

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Robsolf

It is interesting to see where Aion and CO are sitting in box pricing, already.  $25.99 for either title, after less than 2 months?  It usually takes about 6 months to hit those prices.  There's obviously some overstock out there.

 

Is that price accurate?  Is Aion really selling for $26 now?

My mistake, it's $22.99 right now...

http://www.amazon.com/Aion-Tower-Eternity-Steelbook-Pc/dp/B000VL4J9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1257785740&sr=8-1

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Robsolf

It is interesting to see where Aion and CO are sitting in box pricing, already.  $25.99 for either title, after less than 2 months?  It usually takes about 6 months to hit those prices.  There's obviously some overstock out there.

 

Is that price accurate?  Is Aion really selling for $26 now?

 

My mistake, it's $22.99 right now...

http://www.amazon.com/Aion-Tower-Eternity-Steelbook-Pc/dp/B000VL4J9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1257785740&sr=8-1

 

Those are private retailers. Gamestop and Best buy still have both games at $49.99. Newegg has them at $46.99 but that's their usual price for new games.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Regnevanz

Originally posted by Kyleran
/Snip blah blah wow fanboi rant

Compared to the performance of L1/L2, Aion is a big hit in the West, but it ceertainly is no WOW.

 

Actually I remember the wow launch it had around 200k sales at the time - so yeah Aion thus far is in better shape.

Just to put your comment in perspective.  Before WoW, most gamers didn't even know what an MMORPG was.  No game ever had a launch of more than 150k subscribers before WoW.  When WoW sold out their 175,000 initial boxs within the first week of release, it was a shockwave that PC Gaming world had not seen before in regards to MMORPGs.  Thanks to the success of WoW, games like WAR, AoC, AION, etc are able to sell many several hundred thousand more than WoW did.
The difference is that while WoW initially sold 175k copies, it has steadily grown to over 12 million subscribers we have today.  For what ever reason, new released games are failing miserably at concurrent subscriber rates.  Some of the rare exceptions to this include WoW, LOTRO, and EVE.  It's obvious that Blizzard, Turbine, and CCP are doing something right and the rest of these companies are having difficulties duplicating their success.

 

 

Another thing to note is this: WoW should have sold more! They stopped sending boxes - told retailers to stop selling, because they wanted to get the server problem under control.
 

GUILD WARS 2 vs AION ????????????????????? Who will win NCsoft's heart?

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Robsolf

It is interesting to see where Aion and CO are sitting in box pricing, already.  $25.99 for either title, after less than 2 months?  It usually takes about 6 months to hit those prices.  There's obviously some overstock out there.

 

Is that price accurate?  Is Aion really selling for $26 now?

 

My mistake, it's $22.99 right now...

http://www.amazon.com/Aion-Tower-Eternity-Steelbook-Pc/dp/B000VL4J9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1257785740&sr=8-1

 

 

Those are private retailers. Gamestop and Best buy still have both games at $49.99. Newegg has them at $46.99 but that's their usual price for new games.

Not sure how that matters.  You have 2-3 high rep resellers on Amazon selling the game NIB for $22-24.99.

I'm not picking on the game, I'm just sayin', you don't normally see those kinds of prices for months.  Even a relative flop like WAR was still around $30 several months out.

I know this because that's generally how I buy MMO's... wait til' they're cheap enough where you're almost getting the box for free(15-20 bucks plus free month).