Originally posted by lawnmowerman

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by Newt

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Up to T12 gear for your strawman argument now?

How about you stick to the claims that we are actually making? - That this is the thin edge of the wedge. A small step towards game-affecting gear being sold eventually.

Even if it isn't - it's still a case of content that used to be added for free now being charged for in excess of the sub fee.

Right now - it's bad, and we are worried that it will get much worse. Is THAT clear?

 

Find new stuff to worry about, go make a kid and be a good parent or something.

The point is this, Blizzard knows that the path to making money in this genre is player retention, by offering RMT  gear, they cut the time people play the game down severly, if you can just buy your items, then what? You obviously didn't enjoy raiding, cause you would have rather bought your gear, and everyone who PvP's will have just the same stuff, so there is no incentive to do that either. only thing to do is show it off in a city how long you think someone will pay for that?

I hear your worries, the whole slippery slope thing, but seriously, do you think after years of being on top do you think Blizzard is going to make a move that only the bottom games imploy?

Quit spending so much time doubting and try to grow a brain everytime you post its always about an issue not too far from your nose, when if you would uncross your eyes and look down the road aways, you could actually see potholes before you fall into them.

thats at least 3 posts in this thread where you are name calling ,ranting, and/or flaming. Yet you seem to have no issue telling others what/how they should post. Odd.

well you only have what five post on the site, if you go and look back, most of my post are rather well thought out, I try to be inoffensive, ect.

BUT

I'm really getting tired of the community on this site, its all a bunch of WoW haters, EVE elitist, normal Trolls, and otherwise people who have the inability to talk on a rational level. Firstly I figured  I'd try just blowing off some steam, and try talking at the same level as most of the people on this site.

Did you even read the article, especially the part about the boy who cried wolf?

If they do ever realease game breaking items in the RMT, you community will have no voice cause of the monkey poo throwing sh!t fit that people have when ever anything like this is done, ala, 600 some odd post over it here.

I hope your jsut new to the site, and not some troll who made a new account cause your old name is associated with troll, cause if your new, one day...you'll get what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by Scalebane

 I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT.  Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me.  Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game.

Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there.  So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?

 

I just want to ask "Is the story in the game complete without the extra content?" and "Does the extra content just allow you to continue playing the game after the main story, or offer side quest to be done at any point?" if so it's ok. It's what some of us like to call expansions, you pay for the content cause you realize its not free for them to design it, and by buying you let the company know that you enjoyed the product and want to see more like it.

Hey i don't have an issue with companies doing this, this is more of a callout to those that think this is the end of the world, i'm just trying to gauge there reaction on Bioware doing this RMT besides blizzard, and on a single player game of all things.

I'm sure they won't say a word though or they will make excuses for Bioware, i already know the Hypocrisy from these people, they just want to trash Blizzard but its okay if Bioware does it.

you wont see these same people denouncing Bioware or saying they will never play a Bioware game again.  You won't hear them say Bioware is greedy or anything bad at all.

Originally posted by Suraknar

I am surprised by the news to say the least.

However I do understand and agree with many points the OP has made.

I think the problem with the reaction is multi-fold here.

Most mmorpg fans, do not like microtransactions. Some because they are not used to them and some others simply opposing them out of principle.

The truth is that no matter how it is done, fundamentally, in my view as well, microstransactions are a form of RMT, a milder form of RMT perpetrated by the Game's Developer themselves.

So it feels, hypocritical, when Blizzard does not condone RMT from third parties, then turn around and does it themselves.

It would be like a Churche preached not to give donations to different denomination Churches, but then every sunday goes around with the basket asking for donations themselves. It is Hypocritical and obvious.

Now if you say, that "this is a business", and like any other, its goal is to make more money independently of it being Hypocritical, and actually this is what the OP is saying, then one may just accept this, but loyal fans would not easily accept it, because, in reality everyone knows that this is a business, yet no everyone wants to be associated with a bad behavior such as Hypocrisy.

On the other hand it could be argued, why would a successful enterprise such as Blizzard, which makes roughly 164 Millions of Dollar per month, in gross income, (that is more than a Billion per year), would need to make something like this?

The answer is not Bill and expenses, these are payed in this case long before a year ends. The answer is simply that Blizzard is an Enterprise in a Capitalist system and it has to be more profitable every year compared to the previous one, in order to fulfill its mandate towards its shareholders.

It is as simple as that really. As in reality it does not "need" to make more profit when it already makes much profit, but it needs as a company to be able to show growth...even if it made a good number of hundreds of millions of profit every year, if that profit was the same every year, it would not be good as the company would show no growth. That is how many western economies work, it is all a matter of perceived value, blame it on the system if you must, yet that would be a discussion in and of itself.

That being said some of you may ask, but why did they have to go with microtransactions? The answer is, because they can;t any longer show growth with new subscriptions, truth is WoW is a "old" game now, it is nothing new and it does not attract that many new players which could have an impact on its growth numbers, because there is other games out there too, and the influx of players (if any) is balanced by those that quit WoW for another game.

My only concern is that eventually, this store may have other items in it, that are not just cosmetic, unless Blizzard comes up with yet another way to raise its profitability numbers.

All in all, this is but an indication that WoW had run its course. Business aside, I am really interested to see how many people playing WoW are actually driven by Vanity...I think the results may surprise some.

Like this, stuff like this gets lost in the 60 pages of, WoW sucks, Vanity pets are game breaking, slippery slope, ect.

I do not agree with everything this poster said, but I'm sure he understands which parts of his post are more opinion than fact, and knows what parts people can disagree with, and what parts are just how it is, and if you don't understand, you don't need to be talking economics.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Irishoak

I'm not agreeing with this article, not even in vague fuzzy terms. Until folks recognize the difference between making a profit and sheer greed we'll get stuck with this lot and as consumers we sorta have it coming. Blizzard was by no means hurting prior to the MT pet store, so at this point it's just more money on the piles of money they already make.

Why is the staff of MMORPG so pumped about anything and everything MT? The whole, "you're freaking out relax or we'll marginalize you" tactic is a bit much as well. I've noticed a lot of game sites for various types of video games (MW2, L4D2 pick a boycott) all spouting this to degrees. I say, by all means those of you who are going to, go ahead and embrace the corporate culture so we can weed out the sites that are about gamers and for gamers and the ones who are about self-service and making money. And why are you so trusting of companies and the...oh, wait, I see what you did there. Quick, add more banners.

Keep chanting; "Wave of the future. Don't overreact! Silly gamers! Silly gamers! Silly!" Yeah, you know what's best for us, my bad.

 

Ok, then YOU tell me(in non subjective terms) just what is this "greed"(sheer or other wise) you speak of?  Simply because Blizzard has made billions on WoW, does that some how translate to them not looking for methods to make more money? At what point does a *business* have "enough" profit and then "should" lose interest in more?

As for the second, given some of the hysterical "the sky is falling" posts, its no wonder some of us have taken to teasing about this.  Some of you need to check your tin foil hats for leaks, so that Blizzards orbital mind control lasers don't cause you to rush out and purchase those vanity pets...<grin>

I hate to bring this up... But one of the major motivational factors behind business in general(and games are a business) is to make a profit.  I now that comes as a horrible shock to some of you, but its the ugly, unavoidable truth.  Now the best businesses know that such is best done by supplying a market demand. Absent government intervention(aka the bail out for bankers, and GM etc...) any business that doesn't meet market demands eventually goes out of business.  Which is as it should be.

You honestly believe it's just about two pets? Blizzard has given us a shit load of pets in the past, why are they worth ten bucks now? It's a testbed. Willful ignorance on anyone's part is their failing not my flaw.

We've had this conversation in another thread before. All profit is not greed, stop acting like I denounce a penny's worth of profit as another example of the man keeping me down. To be completely honest I'm only shocked you wish to parse English, if you wish to ignore my point so as to allow you a platform for a pro-corporate rant, fine. Just don't pretend I'm a wide-eyed child confused at the goings on of you gosh darn grown ups.

And to answer your demi-question, certain facts make me believe there is no free market to speak off, it's highly controlled (you cited references already), and greed is not good for us as a whole or even for a single individual/entity in the long run. I have nothing against profits, but greed for the sake of greed repels me. You can not say one single thing that will change my mind on that subject. Carry on with the attempt at marginalizing and chalk this one up as a "WINAR" or whatever it is you're looking for.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by Scalebane

 I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT.  Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me.  Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game.

Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there.  So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?

 

I just want to ask "Is the story in the game complete without the extra content?" and "Does the extra content just allow you to continue playing the game after the main story, or offer side quest to be done at any point?" if so it's ok. It's what some of us like to call expansions, you pay for the content cause you realize its not free for them to design it, and by buying you let the company know that you enjoyed the product and want to see more like it.

Hey i don't have an issue with companies doing this, this is more of a callout to those that think this is the end of the world, i'm just trying to gauge there reaction on Bioware doing this RMT besides blizzard, and on a single player game of all things.

I'm sure they won't say a word though or they will make excuses for Bioware, i already know the Hypocrisy from these people, they just want to trash Blizzard but its okay if Bioware does it.

you wont see these same people denouncing Bioware or saying they will never play a Bioware game again.  You won't here them say Bioware is greedy or anything bad at all.

That I can agree with, although I must say that if I get at least a couple days enjoyment out of the new content, I don't mind paying for it, cause after all, it is still cheap entertainment. buy the game get 80 hours of ebtertainment, pay another 15 bucks, get another 10 hours, I'm cool with that.

I'm not one to be disillusioned into believing that there is just one ticket price for evolving entertainment.

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

Originally posted by Morgaren

Originally posted by Newt

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Up to T12 gear for your strawman argument now?

How about you stick to the claims that we are actually making? - That this is the thin edge of the wedge. A small step towards game-affecting gear being sold eventually.

Even if it isn't - it's still a case of content that used to be added for free now being charged for in excess of the sub fee.

Right now - it's bad, and we are worried that it will get much worse. Is THAT clear?

 

Find new stuff to worry about, go make a kid and be a good parent or something.

The point is this, Blizzard knows that the path to making money in this genre is player retention, by offering RMT  gear, they cut the time people play the game down severly, if you can just buy your items, then what? You obviously didn't enjoy raiding, cause you would have rather bought your gear, and everyone who PvP's will have just the same stuff, so there is no incentive to do that either. only thing to do is show it off in a city how long you think someone will pay for that?

I hear your worries, the whole slippery slope thing, but seriously, do you think after years of being on top do you think Blizzard is going to make a move that only the bottom games imploy?

Quit spending so much time doubting and try to grow a brain everytime you post its always about an issue not too far from your nose, when if you would uncross your eyes and look down the road aways, you could actually see potholes before you fall into them.

thats at least 3 posts in this thread where you are name calling ,ranting, and/or flaming. Yet you seem to have no issue telling others what/how they should post. Odd.

 

well you only have what five post on the site, if you go and look back, most of my post are rather well thought out, I try to be inoffensive, ect.

BUT

I'm really getting tired of the community on this site, its all a bunch of WoW haters, EVE elitist, normal Trolls, and otherwise people who have the inability to talk on a rational level. Firstly I figured  I'd try just blowing off some steam, and try talking at the same level as most of the people on this site.

Did you even read the article, especially the part about the boy who cried wolf?

If they do ever realease game breaking items in the RMT, you community will have no voice cause of the monkey poo throwing sh!t fit that people have when ever anything like this is done, ala, 600 some odd post over it here.

I hope your jsut new to the site, and not some troll who made a new account cause your old name is associated with troll, cause if your new, one day...you'll get what I'm talking about.

   First, yes I am new. New to posting here at least. This "column" was the first one that pissed me off enough to feel i needed to respond. Generally i just pop in read the news, check the darkfall forums to see what nonsense is happening over there and leave.

   See, the issue with this article (this is my opinion)...is that the boy who cried wolf analogy doesn't fit because, there IS A WOLF. Adding a cash shop to a game that already has a sub fee IS the negative thing we are worried about. It isn't nothing as the "columnist" would have us believe. This IS THE THING we are worried about happening right now. Granted, it is a first step so less severe than it will be in the future (and it will) but it IS  happening.

  Don't tell me not to cry wolf when the goddamn wolf is right effing there!

Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.

But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.

I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.

Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)

Originally posted by Morgaren

Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.

But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.

I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.

If those were in the shop right now, would you condemn it?

Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)

 

IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.

I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.

As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Morgaren

Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.

But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.

I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.

If those were in the shop right now, would you condemn it?

Yes I would, that crosses the line of harmless fluff, into the wolf that everyone is really afraid of, I'm not, i believe blizzard is smart enough to know where the line is really drawn, and dares to not cross it.

Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)

 

IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.

I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.

As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.

It is more complex than that, if you want to get technical, you have to go over tons of data, and see how long it takes most people to get "geared" for the casual gamers they are appealing to today who knows, for giggles lets say an average of 6 months, or $90 in sub money, then you have to add that into factoring, how long it takes to make the content that gives out the next set of gear, is that enough time to allow people to be geared and then enjoy it for a while?, then how many people will leave the game if we introduce buyable gear? (There would be alot) and is this amount of people lost going to be returnable in new customers that like this new set up? probably not seeing as how WoW is a pop culture phenomenon, and an MMO fluke, and this would be a major change in how the game is played. plus how many new players won't level cause the challenge they all heard about is essentially destroyed.  How will this new feature effect our reputaion, and effect sales on out future products?You can go on and on with how they would go about determining if its profitable.

Lets stop making the mistake that criminals make with the police, you know, that they are incompetent. This company is making billions on this game, are they really going to rock the boa that hard? Do you really think the creators of the most successful MMO in history don't know how people feel about game breaking RMT? I mean its not like they researched any of this stuff as in depth as we mighty forum users have.

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Wraithone

You expected an "impartial" article when dealing with the hysterical reactions we've seen??  Come on now, from the type of reactions we've seen, one would think that they put full T12 gear and weapons up for sale, instead of a couple of useless vanity pets. 

Up to T12 gear for your strawman argument now?

How about you stick to the claims that we are actually making? - That this is the thin edge of the wedge. A small step towards game-affecting gear being sold eventually.

Even if it isn't - it's still a case of content that used to be added for free now being charged for in excess of the sub fee.

Right now - it's bad, and we are worried that it will get much worse. Is THAT clear?

CONTENT? Did you just call vanity pets CONTENT? Are you serious?

They threw in a free penguin for anyone who linked their account to Battle.net a few weeks ago. They gave everyone free content! YAY! It was like an entire patch!!!!! Almost as good as 3.3!

Wow. Perhaps you and everyone else who is, indeed, crying wolf should calm down and think about what you're talking about. Content... content has significance. Content is "stuff". Content is valuable additions to the game. Content is partly why WAR failed - it didn't have enough of it in the beginning, especially PvE. Content is not insignificant things such as vanity pets. If they added in a dungeon that you had to pay for, that's paying for content.

It used to be added for free. Hey, everyone, that means Blizzard will now charge for all vanity pets because they used to be added for free, implying that they will no longer be added... for free. You guys are right! After the pets, they'll certainly move towards EXP, buffs, armor, etc. It's the end of the friggin' world!

 

Pet's are content, regardless of how small it may be, it is still content. Anything in the game, is freaking content, are you stupid? Not to insult you, just asking =P

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Originally posted by darkboarder8

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

 

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by darkboarder8

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

 

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

Everybody's beef, as far as I can see, is RMT on top of a subscription fee. That's my beef anyway.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Why should those against RMT have the only voice?  do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet?  i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.

Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.

I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?"  i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end.  Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Why should those against RMT have the only voice?  do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet?  i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.

Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.

I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?"  i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end.  Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.

I asked that because your replies are very condescending toward others with a different opinion,especially on when to speak up. Which is what is so surprising about this write up. It is as if people are being told to shut it, which is what I do not get. Of course people will do what they want in the end, play or not. However maybe they actually like the game they are currently playing. Which makes sense to speak up before that game turns into something they would not be willing to pay for.

No one is saying to not speak up if you disagree with them, so why tell others to can it or mock their opinion?

The bottom line is, you take your money else where when your stance has been ignored. You would (seemingly) rather people admit defeat before they even fight, which is what the OP seemed to be calling for as well, here and in his second write up (blog) about it.

so whats the difference between buying a pet or paying for a server transfer? You're spending money thats outside the monthly sub, thats a RMT. Same for all the other services you can pay for, hell even expansions could be listed as RMT. Game companies are perfectly able to release expansions without charging for them, yet i dont see any threads with 600+ replies crying about those. Save your complaining for something worth it, dont worry the sky isnt falling. Remember its just a game and pixels.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Blaming SOE for Blizzard adding two non game changing pets via a cash store...

Did you forget about Ultima Online? I seem to remember having to pay for that game well before paying for EQ.

And all these posts from people that "don't play WoW". 

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

...

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Now that is another interesting point raised.

If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer.  Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?

When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname.  When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.

Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW.  So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea.  After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

...

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

 

Now that is another interesting point raised.

If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer.  Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?

When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname.  When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.

Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW.  So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea.  After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.

Quite so. Which is why I some what suspected something like World of Starcraft... But Blizzard claims that the new one will be a totally new IP.  Lord only knows what it will be, but I strongly suspect it will not compete with WoW.

I know people who paid for the LIVE streaming of BlizzCon just to get the novelty pet, but not even watch the event. I know people who pay hundreds on eBay just because they are collectors in WoW. It really is no different for them to be adding a "cash shop". Personally (IMO), if anything, the existing cash shop of WoW was the TCG.

It is just a novelty pet, it is nothing game changing or impacting, it's for collectors . . .