Originally posted by Morgaren

Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.

But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.

I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.

If those were in the shop right now, would you condemn it?

Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)

 

IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.

I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.

As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Morgaren

Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.

But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.

I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.

If those were in the shop right now, would you condemn it?

Yes I would, that crosses the line of harmless fluff, into the wolf that everyone is really afraid of, I'm not, i believe blizzard is smart enough to know where the line is really drawn, and dares to not cross it.

Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)

 

IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.

I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.

As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.

It is more complex than that, if you want to get technical, you have to go over tons of data, and see how long it takes most people to get "geared" for the casual gamers they are appealing to today who knows, for giggles lets say an average of 6 months, or $90 in sub money, then you have to add that into factoring, how long it takes to make the content that gives out the next set of gear, is that enough time to allow people to be geared and then enjoy it for a while?, then how many people will leave the game if we introduce buyable gear? (There would be alot) and is this amount of people lost going to be returnable in new customers that like this new set up? probably not seeing as how WoW is a pop culture phenomenon, and an MMO fluke, and this would be a major change in how the game is played. plus how many new players won't level cause the challenge they all heard about is essentially destroyed.  How will this new feature effect our reputaion, and effect sales on out future products?You can go on and on with how they would go about determining if its profitable.

Lets stop making the mistake that criminals make with the police, you know, that they are incompetent. This company is making billions on this game, are they really going to rock the boa that hard? Do you really think the creators of the most successful MMO in history don't know how people feel about game breaking RMT? I mean its not like they researched any of this stuff as in depth as we mighty forum users have.

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Wraithone

You expected an "impartial" article when dealing with the hysterical reactions we've seen??  Come on now, from the type of reactions we've seen, one would think that they put full T12 gear and weapons up for sale, instead of a couple of useless vanity pets. 

Up to T12 gear for your strawman argument now?

How about you stick to the claims that we are actually making? - That this is the thin edge of the wedge. A small step towards game-affecting gear being sold eventually.

Even if it isn't - it's still a case of content that used to be added for free now being charged for in excess of the sub fee.

Right now - it's bad, and we are worried that it will get much worse. Is THAT clear?

CONTENT? Did you just call vanity pets CONTENT? Are you serious?

They threw in a free penguin for anyone who linked their account to Battle.net a few weeks ago. They gave everyone free content! YAY! It was like an entire patch!!!!! Almost as good as 3.3!

Wow. Perhaps you and everyone else who is, indeed, crying wolf should calm down and think about what you're talking about. Content... content has significance. Content is "stuff". Content is valuable additions to the game. Content is partly why WAR failed - it didn't have enough of it in the beginning, especially PvE. Content is not insignificant things such as vanity pets. If they added in a dungeon that you had to pay for, that's paying for content.

It used to be added for free. Hey, everyone, that means Blizzard will now charge for all vanity pets because they used to be added for free, implying that they will no longer be added... for free. You guys are right! After the pets, they'll certainly move towards EXP, buffs, armor, etc. It's the end of the friggin' world!

 

Pet's are content, regardless of how small it may be, it is still content. Anything in the game, is freaking content, are you stupid? Not to insult you, just asking =P

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Originally posted by darkboarder8

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

 

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by darkboarder8

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

   Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.

  It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.

  Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry.  Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across  the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?

   The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However,  Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet  for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.

   I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.

So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?

 

You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.

So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

Everybody's beef, as far as I can see, is RMT on top of a subscription fee. That's my beef anyway.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Why should those against RMT have the only voice?  do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet?  i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.

Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.

I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?"  i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end.  Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Why should those against RMT have the only voice?  do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet?  i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.

Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.

I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?"  i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end.  Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.

I asked that because your replies are very condescending toward others with a different opinion,especially on when to speak up. Which is what is so surprising about this write up. It is as if people are being told to shut it, which is what I do not get. Of course people will do what they want in the end, play or not. However maybe they actually like the game they are currently playing. Which makes sense to speak up before that game turns into something they would not be willing to pay for.

No one is saying to not speak up if you disagree with them, so why tell others to can it or mock their opinion?

The bottom line is, you take your money else where when your stance has been ignored. You would (seemingly) rather people admit defeat before they even fight, which is what the OP seemed to be calling for as well, here and in his second write up (blog) about it.

so whats the difference between buying a pet or paying for a server transfer? You're spending money thats outside the monthly sub, thats a RMT. Same for all the other services you can pay for, hell even expansions could be listed as RMT. Game companies are perfectly able to release expansions without charging for them, yet i dont see any threads with 600+ replies crying about those. Save your complaining for something worth it, dont worry the sky isnt falling. Remember its just a game and pixels.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Blaming SOE for Blizzard adding two non game changing pets via a cash store...

Did you forget about Ultima Online? I seem to remember having to pay for that game well before paying for EQ.

And all these posts from people that "don't play WoW". 

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

...

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

Now that is another interesting point raised.

If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer.  Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?

When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname.  When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.

Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW.  So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea.  After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lisubab

...

OK no proves, just "trust me".  All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think.  WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so.  Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so.  Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.

I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense.  Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.

 

Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point.  It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO.  Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.

 

Now that is another interesting point raised.

If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer.  Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?

When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname.  When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.

Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW.  So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea.  After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.

Quite so. Which is why I some what suspected something like World of Starcraft... But Blizzard claims that the new one will be a totally new IP.  Lord only knows what it will be, but I strongly suspect it will not compete with WoW.

I know people who paid for the LIVE streaming of BlizzCon just to get the novelty pet, but not even watch the event. I know people who pay hundreds on eBay just because they are collectors in WoW. It really is no different for them to be adding a "cash shop". Personally (IMO), if anything, the existing cash shop of WoW was the TCG.

It is just a novelty pet, it is nothing game changing or impacting, it's for collectors . . .

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Scalebane

Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.

Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.

My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.

As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.

Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?

Why should those against RMT have the only voice?  do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet?  i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.

Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.

I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?"  i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end.  Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.

Because the gamer's of WoW use to get the fluff included with their sub and box purchases maybe? You may be okay with buying a burger for years from a restaurant and then suddenly the burger joint deciding that ketchup for the burger will now not come with burgers any longer, you buy it seperately.
 

Some people like I decide that I don't want this companies products any longer and start shopping for burgers at other places they will include everything with my burger for one price. If enough people decide the same that they prefer not to be nickle and dimed then the other burger joint will realize they went over their limit with how much they can get away with and still keep customers. Businesses are always testing how far they can milk their customers without them leaving.

Originally posted by Anubisan

Great article. I agree completely.

I don't understand how people cannot make the distinction between RMT that has absolutely no affect on gameplay and a full-fledged cash shop.

How exactly is a dancing panda going to affect anyone's gaming experience or imbalance ANYTHING? The answer is: It won't. Not one bit.

And the argument that Blizzard's donations to charity are a smokescreen is completely ridiculous. Many old-school MMO gamers are just so anti-WoW that they are constantly looking for something, anything, to complain about related to it. They just can't stand the idea that WoW is so unbelievably successful while their favorite game of choice fails. And it REALLY pisses them off that Blizzard might actually *gasp* be doing something GOOD in the process.

You and the OP both admit you believe this is all for the money but you overlook one big factor by saying this new feature is "harmless". Blizz's marketting team will be evaluating how many players actually buy the pets and if a large portion do, then it will be clearing the path for other rmt features in the future. As the saying goes, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely", if they are given an inch, they will take the whole mile on future content in other words.

Originally posted by Slampig

Blaming SOE for Blizzard adding two non game changing pets via a cash store...

Did you forget about Ultima Online? I seem to remember having to pay for that game well before paying for EQ.

And all these posts from people that "don't play WoW". 

I remember paying for a large number of D&D modules, figures, campaigns, etc. before there ever was an option to play electronically.  This industry has always been based on microtransactions.  Buying an expansion is nothing but a microtransaction, for you purists out there.  You pay for more content, and they deliver.  As far as I know, you can still play WoW without BC or LK, but your experience won't be as full, long, or enjoyable.

Oh and btw, before anybody says I'm defending our version of Big Blue....I haven't played since the coliseum made all my hard ground ulduar gear obsolete.  So many players and a weak engine = playtime for casuals, but us real gamers have to go somewhere where there's more to an encounter than timing cooldowns and moving to a specific place at a specific time.

Originally posted by Czanrei

Originally posted by Anubisan

Great article. I agree completely.

I don't understand how people cannot make the distinction between RMT that has absolutely no affect on gameplay and a full-fledged cash shop.

How exactly is a dancing panda going to affect anyone's gaming experience or imbalance ANYTHING? The answer is: It won't. Not one bit.

And the argument that Blizzard's donations to charity are a smokescreen is completely ridiculous. Many old-school MMO gamers are just so anti-WoW that they are constantly looking for something, anything, to complain about related to it. They just can't stand the idea that WoW is so unbelievably successful while their favorite game of choice fails. And it REALLY pisses them off that Blizzard might actually *gasp* be doing something GOOD in the process.

 

You and the OP both admit you believe this is all for the money but you overlook one big factor by saying this new feature is "harmless". Blizz's marketting team will be evaluating how many players actually buy the pets and if a large portion do, then it will be clearing the path for other rmt features in the future. As the saying goes, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely", if they are given an inch, they will take the whole mile on future content in other words.

Of course its all for the money. That is one of the major motivations for business(and games are business) after all. I gauge this all by if I'm enjoying myself. If I am, I'll not begrudge the Dev's making money from their hard/smart work.  I do that in free games with cash shops(if I enjoy the game I always try to spend $40-50 a month) just so the Dev's make a profit.   An old English expression comes to mind... "Penny wise, and pound foolish".  In the grand scheme of things, this is all trivial.  Not to mention that those who go on(and on and on...) about something trivial like this, are not likely to buy expansions or other such either.

As for power corrupts, I quite agree. One need look no further than government(in its various versions) to see the reality of that statement. But unlike government, no one is forcing you to purchase a game companies products. 

.

Originally posted by biofellis

I say just wait and see.

Wait and see if that iceberg is going to tear open the hull. THEN we can count the life boats.

It's wiser to steer away from the iceberg to begin with.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Stradden

Read Wood: WoW Pets and Boy Who Cried Wolf.

 

I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.

Me too. :) lol...