It seems like games these days focus more so in instanced pvp rather than world pvp. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong games, but I've played WoW which lost its world pvp with the release of BC. AoC which had decent world pvp up until they put in the criminal system. Warhammer which was just large groups fighting back and forth over the same territories. Are there any "good" games out there that world pvp is either the main source of pvp or even still an existant factor in the game?

 If you can cope with grind, there's Aion !

All the PvP isn't instanced !

 Aika!

Since it's not large scale PvP/RvR that you're looking for, why not just play on a PvP enabled server? All mainstream MMOs have them.

you mean fun pvp?

HA yea right.

 Having a FFA PvP server of a PvE focused game isn't open world PvP. 

But yeah, open world based PvP... no one has really tried to top Dark Age of Camelot and Darkfall, which dominate that market. Its not casual friendly so companies don't do it. 

"Good" is relative, a matter of perception. Myabe give Darkfall a try, or like another poster said, just pick the full PvP server. Almost every MMORPG has one.

<edit: forgot a period at the end of my sentence.>

Open World PvP is more common to skill-based MMOs as the level disparity in level-based MMOs doesn't work well with open world PvP. Ultima Online, EVE, Wurm, Darkfall and other skill-based MMOs are places to look for open world PvP.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Open World PvP is more common to skill-based MMOs as the level disparity in level-based MMOs doesn't work well with open world PvP. Ultima Online, EVE, Wurm, Darkfall and other skill-based MMOs are places to look for open world PvP.

I don't think the OP necessarily means FFA everywhere PvP. I think he's merely talking about the fact that PvP like in Warhammer is done in tiny instances set up like a round of counterstrike instead of a large RvR zone where things actually matter, land is captured, relics are attained, dungeons are opened for your realm because of the prowess of your entire realm's ability. Not who got the most kills on randomsiegemap_2.

 EVE online, has no restrictions to you shooting at people, though in hi-sec systems you get concorded most of the time.

 I enjoy world pvp in TCoS nowdays, yeah it's skill based game.

Eve,Darkfall,Fallen Earth,AoC

In Future

Mortal Online,Earthrise

Darkfall = world sandbox PvP, nuff said!

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Open World PvP is more common to skill-based MMOs as the level disparity in level-based MMOs doesn't work well with open world PvP. Ultima Online, EVE, Wurm, Darkfall and other skill-based MMOs are places to look for open world PvP.

It's true open world PVP is more common in these games, but it's not true that skill-based games inherently do it better.

"Level disparity" hints at the underlying issue, as it's the disparity between the min and max power accumulation in a game that matters.  But a level-based game could provide small increments, and a skill-based game could provide large ones.  So it's not inherent to the design, it's merely the way the majority of these games have been designed in the past.

And I'm not even sure if that's true.   Because there's absolutely no way that if I sat the best EVE player in the world down on my EVE character (who can't even pilot cruisers) that he could take on a capital ship and win.  So in EVE the same level disparity exists as that found in a level-based game.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true in other of the skill-based games you mentioned, but I haven't played many of em.

Originally posted by Axehilt

...but it's not true that skill-based games inherently do it better.

I apologize if anything I wrote led you believe I was stating that.

 

And I'm not even sure if that's true.   Because there's absolutely no way that if I sat the best EVE player in the world down on my EVE character (who can't even pilot cruisers) that he could take on a capital ship and win. 

Very true, however...

- I'd question how that cap ship got into Empire space or why your newb character was in null-sec.

- In even the most balanced of games, presenting the most extreme (and near impossible) example will always show a lack of balance

- Anyone relying on stats to determine their chance of victory in EVE has already lost the war.

Originally posted by luckturtz

Eve,Darkfall,Fallen Earth,AoC

 

In Future

 

Mortal Online,Earthrise

I'm anxious to see how MO and ER turn out. I'm hoping they become another set of decent choices for people who want War/Conquest-style PVP.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

- In even the most balanced of games, presenting the most extreme (and near impossible) example will always show a lack of balance

I agree, though nevertheless EVE is still significantly imbalanced (I may have weak skills, but I've spent an entire month skill training; whereas in Planetside I'd kill max-rank expert players with my 10-min-old new character because skill was significantly more important in that game.  10 mins to a tough fight vs. "1 month and couldn't hope to kill the majority of players" is a pretty significant gap.)

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Open World PvP is more common to skill-based MMOs as the level disparity in level-based MMOs doesn't work well with open world PvP. Ultima Online, EVE, Wurm, Darkfall and other skill-based MMOs are places to look for open world PvP.

 

It's true open world PVP is more common in these games, but it's not true that skill-based games inherently do it better.

"Level disparity" hints at the underlying issue, as it's the disparity between the min and max power accumulation in a game that matters.  But a level-based game could provide small increments, and a skill-based game could provide large ones.  So it's not inherent to the design, it's merely the way the majority of these games have been designed in the past.

And I'm not even sure if that's true.   Because there's absolutely no way that if I sat the best EVE player in the world down on my EVE character (who can't even pilot cruisers) that he could take on a capital ship and win.  So in EVE the same level disparity exists as that found in a level-based game.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true in other of the skill-based games you mentioned, but I haven't played many of em.

In this sense, more games need to be like Pernica. It has levels, but it also has skill levels for every skill, but even then a level 1 can effectively take on a level 200 in the game's consensual PvP with the level 200 having only a slight advantage, mostly being based on the fact that it's reasonable.

Shame no one knows what Pernica is really. Shame no one ever picked up on that feature either, though as I've heard from the developer, since Pernica's release, quite a few other of its features have been seen in other MMOs.

On an unrelated note, it's also a shame that no MMO has picked up on the enemies-with-minds-of-their-own feature yet. =P