http://www.wow.com/2009/11/06/scientists-study-how-the-brain-thinks-about-virtual-avatars/

Some catchy conclusions from those scientists:

"In other words, you think about your avatar the same way you think about yourself. They found nearly no difference in the way the brain activated when subjects considered themselves and their avatars."

Don't forget to click the link to the article itself.

What about straight guys playing female chars?

I think this proves only that people don't role play -> players do not consider the choices through their character but rather consider them like they were presented to themselves.

Originally posted by altairzq

What about straight guys playing female chars?

Again, "you think about your avatar the same way you think about yourself"...

Can you say

Yes, I can say  and boy does that nutjob theory call for it.

Originally posted by AcidWave

Originally posted by altairzq

What about straight guys playing female chars?

 

Again, "you think about your avatar the same way you think about yourself"...

Can you say

All those crazy guys that played Tomb Raider. Hope you weren't one of those.

I can sort of see where that article is coming from.

Bear in mind that it is purely referring to WoW players.

Many WoW players aren't traditional RPG fans. It's well known that Blizzard's success is largely through bringing non-traditional RPG gamers into the genre. These gamers are not used to seeing a character come to life and develop a distinct personality as they do in a well-crafted story-driven RPG like Mass Effect, KOTOR or Dragon Age.

It's no surprise that when they would look at their WoW character as "me in the WoW world" rather than as "A stout, bearded, axe-wielding dwarven warrior in the WoW world".

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

It's no surprise that when they would look at their WoW character as "me in the WoW world" rather than as "A stout, bearded, axe-wielding dwarven warrior in the WoW world".

Or a bunch of pixels which I control using my mouse and keyboard. To see anything more is a choice.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I can sort of see where that article is coming from.

Bear in mind that it is purely referring to WoW players.

Many WoW players aren't traditional RPG fans. It's well known that Blizzard's success is largely through bringing non-traditional RPG gamers into the genre. These gamers are not used to seeing a character come to life and develop a distinct personality as they do in a well-crafted story-driven RPG like Mass Effect, KOTOR or Dragon Age.

It's no surprise that when they would look at their WoW character as "me in the WoW world" rather than as "A stout, bearded, axe-wielding dwarven warrior in the WoW world".

This is interesting...  seems there are 2 kinds of roleplay. Once is what you just described, and the other one is identifying yourself with the avatar and roleplaying what you would do, how you would react in that world, if you were let's say a priest or a mage.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I can sort of see where that article is coming from.

Bear in mind that it is purely referring to WoW players.

Many WoW players aren't traditional RPG fans. It's well known that Blizzard's success is largely through bringing non-traditional RPG gamers into the genre. These gamers are not used to seeing a character come to life and develop a distinct personality as they do in a well-crafted story-driven RPG like Mass Effect, KOTOR or Dragon Age.

It's no surprise that when they would look at their WoW character as "me in the WoW world" rather than as "A stout, bearded, axe-wielding dwarven warrior in the WoW world".

 

This is interesting...  seems there are 2 kinds of roleplay. Once is what you just described, and the other one is identifying yourself with the avatar and roleplaying what you would do, how you would react in that world, if you were let's say a priest or a mage.

I do not identify two kind of role-play in your above statements. To me, you are saying the exact same thing in two different ways. Role-play as in taking a role and playing it, should exclude any ambiguities but it's obviously not the case.

Someone playing an avatar as a mage or a priest and losing all sense of reality while doing it, is losing half of the related MMO fun. It actually may be dangerous... but I won't go there.

The fun part about MMO is that you get to do what you can't do in the real world. This is the main reason I am a pure PvP advocate.

Cheers!

I don't agree, one thing is roleplaying what you would do if you were a mage, and another very different is roleplaying what you imagine a mage would do. It's a fundemantal difference.

That's the same thing in different words, seriously. Either way you are playing the mage, it's the same thing no matter what you decide to make them do. Whether it's based off of what you think a mage would do or what you personally would do, it's still making the mage do something and there's a very thin line if one at all between the two.

^{I agree with Altairzq, there is a fundamental difference between the two, one you draw on your own experiences and feelings then feed them into your charactor by making your own choices, the other you take leads from how you think a mage would act in any given circumstance from a template of a mage you've either read about or seen in movies or within the restrictions of the game you are playing. Bioware are trying to give you the former RPG experience with choices as you progress and most MMO's give you the latter by defining how you can act in progressing your character.}

^Cal.

Originally posted by Calerxes

^{I agree with Altairzq, there is a fundamental difference between the two, one you draw on your own experiences and feelings then feed them into your charactor by making your own choices, the other you take leads from how you think a mage would act in any given circumstance from a template of a mage you've either read about or seen in movies or within the restrictions of the game you are playing. Bioware are trying to give you the former RPG experience with choices as you progress and most MMO's give you the latter by defining how you can act in progressing your character.}

 

 

 

^Cal.

Also agree. The WoW era has opened up the genre to a new generation of gamers that can't even conceive of the concept. They're just playing an RPG like they would an FPS game, and dont' even realize there is anything else that can be done with that sort of game.

I wonder though, if it's for the best or worst?

To me, lore provides the backdrop. I am a huge PvP MMORPG gamer, but that doesn't mean I haven't on occaision acted out something super cheesy just for laughs. But without that lore, it's more similar to a FPS. Log in, blow stuff up, log out. No results, no reward. Just wasted time, which it all is in the end, but there's more depth to gameplay. I can *choose* to be involved in the *world*.

I wonder though, because there is obviously a shift when you compare old titles like EQ or FFXI to current titles that offer a simplistic backdrop. Does the RP immersion experience result in a more warm community? To study that link would be interesting indeed.

And oh ya... playing a female in game has nothing to do with 'how i think of myself'. That's croc droppings.

Originally posted by pojung

I wonder though, if it's for the best or worst?

To me, lore provides the backdrop. I am a huge PvP MMORPG gamer, but that doesn't mean I haven't on occaision acted out something super cheesy just for laughs. But without that lore, it's more similar to a FPS. Log in, blow stuff up, log out. No results, no reward. Just wasted time, which it all is in the end, but there's more depth to gameplay. I can *choose* to be involved in the *world*.

I wonder though, because there is obviously a shift when you compare old titles like EQ or FFXI to current titles that offer a simplistic backdrop. Does the RP immersion experience result in a more warm community? To study that link would be interesting indeed.

And oh ya... playing a female in game has nothing to do with 'how i think of myself'. That's croc droppings.

The problem with role playing in an MMORPG, and using the lore, is that it is inconsequential. It doesnt' change the game world, there's no interaction, just action on your part.

 A game with very active role playing is City of Heroes. People get on vent nad pretend to be Super heroes, or Villians. Unhand that citizen villian! or whatever the case may be.

Fun, but it doesn't go anywhere, it can't develop. Everything is static. The NPC's will always say the same thing, the villians will always re spawn, nothing changes because of your actions, so it's a lot like you and your party members are role playing with a brick wall taht doesn't talk back, or just says the same thing over and over again, no matter what you say.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I can sort of see where that article is coming from.

Bear in mind that it is purely referring to WoW players.

Many WoW players aren't traditional RPG fans. It's well known that Blizzard's success is largely through bringing non-traditional RPG gamers into the genre. These gamers are not used to seeing a character come to life and develop a distinct personality as they do in a well-crafted story-driven RPG like Mass Effect, KOTOR or Dragon Age.

It's no surprise that when they would look at their WoW character as "me in the WoW world" rather than as "A stout, bearded, axe-wielding dwarven warrior in the WoW world".

 

This is interesting...  seems there are 2 kinds of roleplay. Once is what you just described, and the other one is identifying yourself with the avatar and roleplaying what you would do, how you would react in that world, if you were let's say a priest or a mage.

 IMO, to me, there are but two types of gamers.

- Those that name there characters in a manner that  coincide with the game world they are in, and play their characters as another entity that they (the player) may be imagining they are while in that world. Role Play there character in other words and get immersed in there game world.

- Those that treat MMORPG's simply as "any other game" where they name their characters however they wish (Names like L337K1LL32, Legolass, Thatdude, etc.) and simply play them to achieve every reward, etc. within the game to gain fame status...or simply just to enjoy playing a game to occupy their time.

The two clash quite often...which is apparent if you read through most of the posts in these forums. One side wishes for an MMO that brings back difficulty and community aspects for the immersion factor while the other side simply wishes for an MMO to entertain them with non stop quick gratification, and don't care as much about community and immersion. My take anyway...

Originally posted by altairzq

 

I don't agree, one thing is roleplaying what you would do if you were a mage, and another very different is roleplaying what you imagine a mage would do. It's a fundemantal difference.

Except that's not roleplaying, it's fantasizing.  Roleplaying is taking on the role of a character entirely outside of yourself and acting through their eyes, not through your own.  What you're describing and what many people call "roleplaying" is really little more than wish-fulfillment.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by altairzq

 

I don't agree, one thing is roleplaying what you would do if you were a mage, and another very different is roleplaying what you imagine a mage would do. It's a fundemantal difference.

Except that's not roleplaying, it's fantasizing.  Roleplaying is taking on the role of a character entirely outside of yourself and acting through their eyes, not through your own.  What you're describing and what many people call "roleplaying" is really little more than wish-fulfillment.

So we should say "I'm fantasizing being a mage","I'm wish-fulfilling being a mage"? This is a different thing, it's a mental process. IMO what can describe what we do in the best way is that we are "roleplaying being a mage", which I completely agree has elements of fantasizing and maybe wish-fulfillment too.

My own thoughts after having had a day or two to think about...

First:

I think most people show off their character in their avatars more  than they think.

It is NOT only a question of role playing btw....

You have the guy with the money. You have the guy without much money. You have the guy who always buys things instead of hunting for it.

You have the GM type, the bragging type, the whiner type, the careful type, the ganker type, the social type, the loner, etc...

------------

Secondly: the control of the avatar ...as an ... extension to your brain.

I ALSO think that the better the gamer can identify himself with his avatar, the more satisfied his gaming experience will be.

One of the best things you always hear about WOW is that the control of your avatar is so responsive and smooth.

Hitting someone with a kidney shot as a rogue is practically having the feel of the stab itself.

---> The more fluid the control of the avatar, the more you'll see it as a direct extension of your brains.

MMO's based on unresponsive "wire and puppets" movements are always a kind of failures.

The best games are those where you ARE your avatar(s). And the first condition for this is ... the control and the world feeling of your avatar.

This "could" be one of the reasons of "that" succesful basic game mechanism everyone is searching for.

Originally posted by Archemon

That's the same thing in different words, seriously. Either way you are playing the mage, it's the same thing no matter what you decide to make them do. Whether it's based off of what you think a mage would do or what you personally would do, it's still making the mage do something and there's a very thin line if one at all between the two.

I'd say the percentage of people that make a decision in WOW based on what a mage would do in that situation is extremely small. Most players make ingame decisions based on what they would do, not because they feel they are that character but because that character is just a much more elaborate version of the 'avatar' below: