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------------------- Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. House passed legislation with the most far-reaching changes to the nation’s health-care system in four decades, requiring all Americans to get coverage, and subjecting insurers to new restrictions and competition from a government program. The House voted 220-215 today to approve the measure, which would cost more than $1 trillion over 10 years. Just one Republican, Representative Joseph Cao of Louisiana, backed the plan, and 39 Democrats broke ranks to oppose it. Lawmakers hailed the step as a historic follow-on to the 1965 creation of the Medicare program for the elderly and disabled. They said the bill would cover 36 million uninsured Americans and curb costs. New rules would prevent insurers from denying coverage to people with preexisting conditions, and seniors would get help obtaining preventive care and medicine. “This bill is change that the American people urgently need,” President Barack Obama said earlier in the day after meeting with Democrats on Capitol Hill. With the House vote, Congress moved closer than ever to a goal of universal access to health care. Former President Bill Clinton and first lady Hillary Clinton, now secretary of state, never got past committee work in the early 1990s. Spotlight on Senate The spotlight now moves to the Senate, where Majority Leader Harry Reid is struggling to get the votes to even begin debate on his version. Once the Senate passes a bill, lawmakers from each chamber would work together on a compromise for a new round of votes, a process likely to take months. Reid this week wouldn’t commit to meeting Obama’s goal of signing a health-care bill into law by the end of the year. Already, that would have represented a five-month gap between the votes of four of the five congressional committees assigned to work on health care and a White House signing ceremony. The House vote came after a daylong session, in which a battle over funding for abortion threatened to derail the bill’s chances, and disputes over everything from illegal immigrants to the cost of the legislation peeled away enough Democrats to make the balloting close. Republican John Boehner called it a “big government takeover of health care.” The margin was narrow enough to prompt last-minute lobbying from Obama, who pressed lawmakers to “rise to this moment, answer the call of history” and pass his signature initiative. Dingell’s Gavel The day began with a raucous debate over the ground rules for considering the legislation. Michigan Representative John Dingell, 83, presided over the proceedings, wielding the same gavel he used during the debate that led to the creation of Medicare to calm down lawmakers shouting over each other. After more than 5 1/2 hours of general debate, the lawmakers turned to an amendment from Michigan Democrat Bart Stupak that would have further limited the use of federal dollars for abortions. It passed on a 240-194 vote. They then rejected a Republican alternative bill by a 258- 176 vote. For most of the year, the biggest fight has been over the creation of a government-run insurance program, the so-called public option, to compete with private insurers such as Hartford, Connecticut-based Aetna Inc. Public Option House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a California Democrat, had to scale back her original proposal for the public option. Lacking votes for tying the program’s reimbursements to doctors to the lower rates paid by Medicare, she settled on a plan that would instead negotiate rates with providers, as private insurers do. The Senate version calls for a similar program that would allow states to opt out. Still, Reid faces opposition from Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman, an independent aligned with the Democrats, and Snowe, the only Republican to vote for any proposal so far. At least four Senate Democrats have also been critical of the idea. Reid needs all 60 votes controlled by the Democratic caucus to even begin debate, and it’s not certain he has them. He would then need 60 votes again to cut off debate and take a vote, amid battles over the public option and new taxes to pay for the expanded insurance coverage for Americans. “We’re going to do this legislation as expeditiously as we can, but we’re going to do it as fairly as we can also,” Reid told reporters on Nov. 3. Both the House and Senate bills require Americans to get insurance, add new restrictions on insurers and encourage greater use of preventive medicine, electronic records and research on the effectiveness of treatments. 2010 Provisions Many of the House provisions take effect in 2010. The elderly would face no co-payments for preventive care and get help paying for drugs. The uninsured would get temporary aid until new purchasing exchanges are created, and young adults could stay on their parents’ plans until they turn 27. House leaders also included an expansion of the government Medicaid program for the poor, which may cost the federal government less than providing subsidies to help people buy insurance. The plan would expand eligibility to people whose incomes are 150 percent of the official poverty level. To finance their bill, House Democrats opted for a surtax on couples who make more than $1 million a year. They would also impose a 2.5 percent excise tax on medical devices that the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimates would raise $20 billion over 10 years. The House bill also requires that employers offer insurance or pay a penalty, with exemptions for businesses with payrolls of less than $500,000. That is a subject of debate in the Senate, where the chamber’s health committee included a mandate and the finance panel rejected it. New Fees, Limits The bill would make large businesses that self-insure their employees pay $2 billion in fees over the next decade. And it adopts a Senate proposal to set a $2,500 limit beginning in 2011 on contributions to tax-advantaged Flexible Spending Accounts used to pay out-of-pocket medical costs. To address rising costs, the bill calls for the independent Institute of Medicine to make recommendations on how to fix the Medicare payment system and calls for Medicare to negotiate prices for drugs, potentially driving down prices. Drugmakers managed to keep the negotiation provision out of the legislation that created the Medicare prescription drug program in 2003 and have fought it this year. The industry reached an agreement, now under fire, with Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus and the White House to pledge $80 billion to the overhaul effort and avert further contributions. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoQVT0QdanBA&pos=1 "Don’t unthinkingly follow authorities, whether intellectual, political or religious. And don’t unthinkingly follow traditions, or social conventions. Think for yourself. Look at the facts, and try to base you're views and your behavior on how things actually are."
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Zindaihas
 Elite Member
Joined: 5/07/06
'If you put govt in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 yrs there'd be a shortage of sand'~M. Friedman |
Nancy Pelosi likened the new healthcare bill to the passage of social security in 1935 and medicare 30 years later. Woo Hoo! Another govenment program chock full of new bureaucracies. Bankruptcy here we come! "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." ~ George S Patton |
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No surprise there. Evil is as evil does. |
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I guess it's a start. |
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Originally posted by Sabiancym
Yup, to a modern liberal, a bankrupt economy and a whole lotta dead people is a good start. |
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Originally posted by Fishermage
Yup, to a modern liberal, a bankrupt economy and a whole lotta dead people is a good start.
Fuck off Fisher. |
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Originally posted by Sabiancym
Fuck off Fisher.
Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you so riled up, huh kid?
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Faxxer
 Elite Member
Joined: 11/19/05
Star Wars Galaxies, R.I.P. NGE was your final death blow. |
Originally posted by Fishermage
Fuck off Fisher.
Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you so riled up, huh kid?
you libs ought to be dancing in the streets now...
the next conservative ought to start his campaign by saying "the first thing i intend to do as president is to overturn pelosicare!"....land slide. |
Originally posted by Zindaihas
It will seem like it..There are millions of people not working but at least they get health coverage..Oh wait some one need to foot the Bill..Those who are working bend over, Doctor Obama is going to pull the taxes right out of your ass..Oh and don't worry, it won't hurt because the K-Y Jelly is going to be free..haha I might not be all ways right,but i am never wrong.. |
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Zindaihas
Elite Member
Joined: 5/07/06
'If you put govt in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 yrs there'd be a shortage of sand'~M. Friedman |
Now attention turns to the Senate. You know, for those of us who are against the government's takeover of healthcare, all our hopes may rest on Joe Lieberman, who has promised a filibuster if the Senate bill contains a public option. Of course, if Harry Reid forces the bill through on a reconciliation vote, then it's over. I think Reid knows he isn't going to win re-election in 2010 and may go forward with reconciliation. In his sick twisted mind, he may see it as his lasting legacy to the country. "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." ~ George S Patton |
Originally posted by Fishermage
Fuck off Fisher.
Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you so riled up, huh kid?
Nope, I'm just sick of your extremism.
Anyone who disagrees with you, you claim is evil, a socialist, facist, etc. Is your last name McCarthy? |
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I kinda get their strategy. They go a full year without addressing people losing jobs. When people lose jobs, what happens? They lose their health insurance. So when they lose their health insurance, they get desperate, so while they know governmental healthcare is a bad idea, they are so desperate they have no choice.
So they take the worst time in our recent history to pass this healthcare bill, because they know people have no choice. They used this time to get people addicted to relying on the government.
The only problem is that they have absolutely no way to get people working again, because there are over 16 million Americans out of jobs. With less and less people paying taxes, more and more people take unemployement checks, "free" healthcare, food stamps, how in the world do they think they can pay for this? We are already deep in debt, we have soaring unemployment, dollar value keeps dropping, and this is the time they come out with this huge government beaurocracy?!
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR I can't believe I'm playing EQ1 again...and having tons of fun |
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Originally posted by Sabiancym
Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you so riled up, huh kid?
Nope, I'm just sick of your extremism.
Anyone who disagrees with you, you claim is evil, a socialist, facist, etc. Is your last name McCarthy?
I'm an extremist to be sure, an extremist when it comes to liberty. Thus I have nothing to do with McCarthy, because, unlike you, I'll defend with my life your right to be a fascist. I don't believe that you would do the same for me. I consider the taking away of liberty evil. You do not. You have a right to be wrong and side with the bad guys in this world. My attitude is the opposite of McCarthyism. I suggest you learn a bit more about history. Perhaps of you did you wouldn't be on the wrong side of history anymore. |
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If Obama is smart, Congress will take the heat from this. then, the Republicans will get the congress back in 2010. Then, the Republicans will get rid of all this crap, the economy improves by 2012 (largely due to the divided government which is almost always good for the economy), and so, like Bill Clinton, he'll cash in and get re-elected. If he's smart that's been his plan all along. |
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So if this goes through, we are all forced to have health insurance. If we don't buy health insurance, we have to pay a special tax penalty. If we don't pay that tax, we'll be fined up to $250,000 and time in prison. That my friends, is exactly what we've been trying to avoid. More of our freedom is being taken away, when they promised they wouldn't do that, they have just passed this Bill that does exactly that.
What's even more ridiculous, is that the Dems are banking on people paying for that tax penalty for choosing to not buy health insurance in order to partly pay for this bill. Yes, they are figuring people will just pay the tax to not have health insurance, and they are banking on that revenue to help pay for this bill.
With unemployment so high, so many people out of jobs, do they have any idea how much this will hurt Americans? Oh that's right, these are politicians, they make 6 digit income and they get paid much much more from special interest groups. They have none of the issues us average Americans have to deal with, so it makes sense to them to tax us during hard times. Don't you all just love this? EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR I can't believe I'm playing EQ1 again...and having tons of fun |
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Originally posted by Fishermage
Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you so riled up, huh kid?
Nope, I'm just sick of your extremism.
Anyone who disagrees with you, you claim is evil, a socialist, facist, etc. Is your last name McCarthy?
I'm an extremist to be sure, an extremist when it comes to liberty. Thus I have nothing to do with McCarthy, because, unlike you, I'll defend with my life your right to be a fascist. I don't believe that you would do the same for me. I consider the taking away of liberty evil. You do not. You have a right to be wrong and side with the bad guys in this world. My attitude is the opposite of McCarthyism. I suggest you learn a bit more about history. Perhaps of you did you wouldn't be on the wrong side of history anymore.
Prove it's the wrong side.
See what I did there? I used your tactic of asking someone to prove something that can't be proven. Now I don't have to make any reasonable posts from here on out and can just continue referring to the fact that you can't prove it.
You are nothing but an extremist, and jesus hates you. |
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Originally posted by Sabiancym
Nope, I'm just sick of your extremism.
Anyone who disagrees with you, you claim is evil, a socialist, facist, etc. Is your last name McCarthy?
I'm an extremist to be sure, an extremist when it comes to liberty. Thus I have nothing to do with McCarthy, because, unlike you, I'll defend with my life your right to be a fascist. I don't believe that you would do the same for me. I consider the taking away of liberty evil. You do not. You have a right to be wrong and side with the bad guys in this world. My attitude is the opposite of McCarthyism. I suggest you learn a bit more about history. Perhaps of you did you wouldn't be on the wrong side of history anymore.
Prove it's the wrong side.
See what I did there? I used your tactic of asking someone to prove something that can't be proven. Now I don't have to make any reasonable posts from here on out and can just continue referring to the fact that you can't prove it.
You are nothing but an extremist, and jesus hates you.
People own themselves. That is the essence of all morality. It is the wrong side to take people's liberty from them using the force of arms. That is what you advocate. It certainly CAN be proven, if you believe taking the freedom of others is wrong, if not, and you think fascism is good, that's your problem and well have to agree to disagree. I think I proved it quite nicely, at least as far as such things can be proven. I am an extremist for liberty, you are a fascist, and Jesus still loves you even though you hate your neighbor and want to take his freedom from him using guns. |
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Originally posted by Fishermage
Nope, I'm just sick of your extremism.
Anyone who disagrees with you, you claim is evil, a socialist, facist, etc. Is your last name McCarthy?
I'm an extremist to be sure, an extremist when it comes to liberty. Thus I have nothing to do with McCarthy, because, unlike you, I'll defend with my life your right to be a fascist. I don't believe that you would do the same for me. I consider the taking away of liberty evil. You do not. You have a right to be wrong and side with the bad guys in this world. My attitude is the opposite of McCarthyism. I suggest you learn a bit more about history. Perhaps of you did you wouldn't be on the wrong side of history anymore.
Prove it's the wrong side.
See what I did there? I used your tactic of asking someone to prove something that can't be proven. Now I don't have to make any reasonable posts from here on out and can just continue referring to the fact that you can't prove it.
You are nothing but an extremist, and jesus hates you.
People own themselves. That is the essence of all morality. It is the wrong side to take people's liberty from them using the force of arms. That is what you advocate. It certainly CAN be proven, if you believe taking the freedom of others is wrong, if not, and you think fascism is good, that's your problem and well have to agree to disagree. I think I proved it quite nicely, at least as far as such things can be proven. I am an extremist for liberty, you are a fascist, and Jesus still loves you even though you hate your neighbor and want to take his freedom from him using guns.
Prove it. |
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Originally posted by Sabiancym
I'm an extremist to be sure, an extremist when it comes to liberty. Thus I have nothing to do with McCarthy, because, unlike you, I'll defend with my life your right to be a fascist. I don't believe that you would do the same for me. I consider the taking away of liberty evil. You do not. You have a right to be wrong and side with the bad guys in this world. My attitude is the opposite of McCarthyism. I suggest you learn a bit more about history. Perhaps of you did you wouldn't be on the wrong side of history anymore.
Prove it's the wrong side.
See what I did there? I used your tactic of asking someone to prove something that can't be proven. Now I don't have to make any reasonable posts from here on out and can just continue referring to the fact that you can't prove it.
You are nothing but an extremist, and jesus hates you.
People own themselves. That is the essence of all morality. It is the wrong side to take people's liberty from them using the force of arms. That is what you advocate. It certainly CAN be proven, if you believe taking the freedom of others is wrong, if not, and you think fascism is good, that's your problem and well have to agree to disagree. I think I proved it quite nicely, at least as far as such things can be proven. I am an extremist for liberty, you are a fascist, and Jesus still loves you even though you hate your neighbor and want to take his freedom from him using guns.
Prove it.
I did. |
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Narug
 Elite Member
Joined: 2/04/08
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance -John Philpot Curran |
Too bad insterate competition and addressing lawsuit abuse never made it. 2 steps that would've actually began to tackle the issue. One monopoly for another here we come...all evil steams ahead... Well on the government's side they get to collect more fines like they want. It should match up well with respective IRS tax hunts and special days for cops out on a ticket quota hunt. The Church has ever proved indestructible. Her persecutors have failed to destroy her; in fact, it was during times of persecution that the Church grew more and more; while the persecutors themselves,... ..., are the very ones who came to nothing.
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Excellent! Not a perfect bill, but great news for our country nevertheless. Now for the Senate! |
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Is it funny that you will already have to pay fines for not having car insurance? But, no you won't raise that fact. Instead you'll bitch that you have to have insurance now. I didn't see you bitching months ago when your car insurance bill was due. You guys are seriously stupid fucks. Also, FDR passed massive legislation when the nation was in a depression, some that really helped our nation and allowed us to grow. I wonder why the government passes laws when the people need them most...hmmm. I mean Bush passed the Patriot Act when the people thought they needed the government for protection. Interesting how government works.... You guys are so right! Obama is evil! Prove it <---to Fishermage because he is honestly the biggest douche on these forums. |
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You can choose not to own or drive a car. The current bill is something you are forced to pay for just by being alive. Its the only kind of bill like it in US existence and if passed will probably be deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court 1 year later. I am not on the same page as you. I think the New Deal merely prolonged the Great Depression, and the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. |
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Faxxer
Elite Member
Joined: 11/19/05
Star Wars Galaxies, R.I.P. NGE was your final death blow. |
Originally posted by xanphia
epic fail of a post |
Originally posted by Fishermage
I take it that the United States of America as it is, is the land of the free. No one have their rights violated, correct? And you're left standing as the ever vigilant watch dog, making sure that no American will have his or her rights violated in the future? I mean, surely the USA must be grand, if a man who's willing to give his life away for the liberty of others, have time to sit around on a MMORPG forum, discussing politics with gamers. Or, is it perhaps too much to assume, that a man who is ready to give his life away for a cause, would also readily devote his life to said cause? It's after all easier walking the path of the martyr, than walking the path of the devote.
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