@silverreign:
I don't think that this thread is fail. There is an abundance of reasons why males would make female characters, and some of them are even valid! You don't speak for all men, mate. :) Although, I happen to agree with you - I've never made a female character, except for when I was trying to convince my wife to play with me, or even play at all!

And, I think that the hyper-sexualized female toons are more a result of the image of females with which the media presents us than they are a result of men being perverts. Let's just agree to leave imposed gender identity out of this, 'kay? lol

@Ilvaldyr:
It's valid for him, in any case. My mate's primary stat is charisma, and it's part of his self-identity to like the ladies, as he's very good at attracting them. His reason for playing female characters is an attraction towards the female form, not a repulsion from the male one. Further, he plays to play, not to date, so his in-game gender is ultimately inconsequential.

Originally posted by Jhakhm

It's valid for him, in any case. My mate's primary stat is charisma, and it's part of his self-identity to like the ladies, as he's very good at attracting them. His reason for playing female characters is an attraction towards the female form, not a repulsion from the male one. Further, he plays to play, not to date, so his in-game gender is ultimately inconsequential.

Hmm. That's still sexualising the avatar.

Both people are choosing their avatars based on their sexual proclivities.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with that or that it's not a valid reason, but it's interesting to me to that the two groups of people (who are often at loggerheads) are basically making decisions for the same reasons.

"And, I think that the hyper-sexualized female toons are more a result of the image of females with which the media presents us than they are a result of men being perverts."

Well I dont know about more, but I'll give you 50/50 =).  But back on topic, I think there should be a distinction made between the pixels and the impression.  Like it or not, unless you are totally immersed in a game or situation, everyone recognizes gender, whether consciously or subconsciously.  It may not be a big deal for most people and it may not earn a second thought, but I think most people equate gender even to players in a game.  Now, if we were talking about facebook, myspace, or other social networks, I think more people would see a problem with people passing themselves off as the other gender.  The issue I guess is when it passes from seeing pixels that represent a gender to when there is social interaction and that impression is left intact.  I think alot of people have a problem when a dialogue develops and they find that the person they were interacting with was not what they thought.  While it is that person's impression that causes alot of the problem, there is an issue of the other person creating a falsehood, if you will.  It really then becomes an issue of when does an interaction with pixels become a social interaction that is bound by the norms of other social interaction.

Here's the thing:  "RPG stands for Role Playing Game"
MMOs were (and are) still based off of Role Playing Games - in that (whether people realize it or not) each and every person is in some way playing a "role" of their character. Some may ultimately choose to play as "themselves", while others who possess a higher level of creativity may want to "narrate" a story of a certain character they created (i.e. Role-Playing).


Now, the degrees vary from person to person. And there is no "wrong" degree of play style. It is perfectly normal for a RL male to play a female character (and even Role Play as a Female). There is nothing in Psychology that states this is wrong or abnormal. You are simply creating a character and creatively deciding how that character would react to situations (it's no different from Authors who create and act out characters in their Novels).


The Mistake:  "Oops...I did it again"
The mistake is made when people assume that someone they meet in an MMO reflects their true self in reality. And that is not always the case. There are several types of players playing for several different reasons. And by assuming other players play like you is where the mistake is made.


An even bigger mistake is letting your RL personal feelings get mixed with in a "virtual" world where virtual (fake) emotions and reactions do exist. When you confuse these, you open yourself to false impressions passed off as reality. As well, you are at fault for believing something to be "true" in a virtual world - which it some times is not.


The Moral of the Story:  "Never Judge a Book by its Cover"
As with anything "online", you never truly know who is on the other side of your PC. Always take caution. And as far as MMOs are concerned, never assume the characteristics of a character pysically represents the person in real life (in any aspect - age, sex, gender, appearence, etc).

@Ilvalydr:
You're right, the avatar is being sexualised either way. Although, when you're making a character, and you are faced with having to choose male of female, isn't the sexualisation of the character being forced on you, either way? I mean, unless you have a gender neutral choice, or unless you can customize your character's looks to the point where it's impossible to tell which gender the character is, you have to make a choice of preference - complete indifference to the character would result in not playing the game at all, no?

@disownation:
Agreed, for the most part - it takes two to tango. See below. :)

@Sensai:
Agreed, but the thing is, it's not just an interaction between pixels. In fact, it's only minimally an interaction between pixels, as the interaction between two game objects is limited to those defined within the game rules. When you start interacting with someone on a level deeper than stat points and spec trees, it becomes, for some, an important issue as to the sexual / gender identity of the person you're interacting with. For example, if I played a female and didn't tell you I was male, you might have assumptions about me based on my presumed gender identity. Further, if I withheld my true sexual identity from you, I may be guilty of unintentionally giving you a false perception of the nature of our interaction. As to the former, your sexualisation of the situation would cause negative feelings on both parts, as I know I wouldn't like to have anything thrust on me simply because of my sex. As to the latter, I'm sure that neither of us would like that situation, from your 'omg you're a guy?!' to my 'omg you wanted to what?!'! Really, until everyone in the world stops associating traits and expectations with sex and sexual identity, the issue of sexual identification in-game will remain a widely debated one.

One is flamebait the other is jailbait.

Seriously people should always be mindful the avatar is not an accurate representation of the person behind the keyboard. If you don't type anything you wouldn't with your Mother looking over your shoulder you're probably ok....

I agree Jhakhm.  The only caveat to that is the quality and quantity of the interaction/socialization.  If it results in personal information being shared (either pervy or non-pervy in nature) in an attempt to get to know each other, there is an argument to made that it does matter.  And while we are talking about role playing games, no one thinks that some one is an orc in real life.  I think most people would be somewhat putoff that after getting to know someone in a normal, non-sexual way, they found out the person was not what they seemed, regardless if any real "damage" is done.

Originally posted by Jhakhm

@Ilvalydr:
You're right, the avatar is being sexualised either way. Although, when you're making a character, and you are faced with having to choose male of female, isn't the sexualisation of the character being forced on you, either way? I mean, unless you have a gender neutral choice, or unless you can customize your character's looks to the point where it's impossible to tell which gender the character is, you have to make a choice of preference - complete indifference to the character would result in not playing the game at all, no?

True, a choice is always demanded. I would suggest that gender neutrality would be to mirror ones own; i.e. make no preferential choice, but to subconsciously default to ones own gender without thinking.

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr
True, a choice is always demanded. I would suggest that gender neutrality would be to mirror ones own; i.e. make no preferential choice, but to subconsciously default to ones own gender without thinking.

---

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Jhakhm

@Ilvalydr:
You're right, the avatar is being sexualised either way. Although, when you're making a character, and you are faced with having to choose male of female, isn't the sexualisation of the character being forced on you, either way? I mean, unless you have a gender neutral choice, or unless you can customize your character's looks to the point where it's impossible to tell which gender the character is, you have to make a choice of preference - complete indifference to the character would result in not playing the game at all, no?

True, a choice is always demanded. I would suggest that gender neutrality would be to mirror ones own; i.e. make no preferential choice, but to subconsciously default to ones own gender without thinking.

Well put.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp :  blablahblah im so scared of other people...

 i do what i want and what i like.

RPG stand for ROLE PLAYING GAME

you play a role, you play a game, you do what you like for your own fun.

thats the frickin diffrence betwen reality and games...

I choose male or female on character creation based on what I think suits the type of character I'm trying to make best. I'm not much of a roleplayer, but playing any RPG game is like watching the story of my character unfold. I might get attached to the my characters, in the same way I get attached to characters in a book, movie or TV-show, but my character is not a projection of me. Anyone I get to know through a game will get to know me, and the names of the characters I play so they'll know which character to address to talk to me.

Of course, during brief encounters with strangers, the only impression they'll be left with is what the character looks like, and the name of the character. People who make an effort to "play themselves" in all online games may think this first impression is comparable to meeting a real person in a social setting. Most people, I hope, realize that an avatar in a game says as little about the person controlling it as a nickname on a forum or in an IRC channel. You won't know anything about the real person until you talk to them, and only if they are willing to share... which in no way they are obliged to do.

Interesting article in New Scientist that is slightly related to the topic.

To each his or her own - I'm sure everyone has their reasons for playing whatever type of character they play.

Interesting - I've not thought about it recently, but I do that, too. In fact, I purposely choose appearances for my character inappropriate to what the character's role is. For example, a muscular caster, a puny tank or a grossly overweight thief.

Alternatively, I go with the opposite sexual identity - a muscular female warrior or a hyper-puny male caster.

Edit: Thanks, cyrana - that's going in my bibliography. :)

Lol, I'm a guy, and every time I make a character on an MMO, it is Female. I really don't care what anyone thinks about it, and just enjoy the game.

Edit: The only guys that play female characters that I have a problem with, are those that try to pretend to be a female. That's just stupid, and there are plenty of those people out there.

personally i play whatever character looks good. after all, i'll be watching that character for a very long time. for this reason i tend to play as a female in MMOs. for me its eye candy pure and simple. tho if you look at it at different angle, its actually a manifestation of me being a guy. as a guy i like girls, so i want to see girls, hence i pick the lovely, ample bosomed female and dress her in revealing robes XD

Originally posted by haelikoth

personally i play whatever character looks good. after all, i'll be watching that character for a very long time. for this reason i tend to play as a female in MMOs. for me its eye candy pure and simple. tho if you look at it at different angle, its actually a manifestation of me being a guy. as a guy i like girls, so i want to see girls, hence i pick the lovely, ample bosomed female and dress her in revealing robes XD

This.

Originally posted by moonbrother

Can't say I've played Allods... trying to, but if a parent doesn't know what their children are doing online, they shouldn't allow their kids online in the first place.

This is the right answer. Allowing children unmoderated access to the internet is the parenting equivalent of sending them into the street to play with traffic.

There is no difference to me because I don't use voice chat. If you play an Orc in-game, then to me, you are an Orc. I don't care if you are a 12 year old girl, or an 80-year-old man, you're still a big smelly brute to me.

Originally posted by darkboarder8

Originally posted by haelikoth

personally i play whatever character looks good. after all, i'll be watching that character for a very long time. for this reason i tend to play as a female in MMOs. for me its eye candy pure and simple. tho if you look at it at different angle, its actually a manifestation of me being a guy. as a guy i like girls, so i want to see girls, hence i pick the lovely, ample bosomed female and dress her in revealing robes XD

 

This.

I don't have anything against people playing the opposite gender, but why do people think that this excuse is LESS creepy than roleplaying, novelty, or scamming?

I think Koster or Bartle or someone once said that females who play males usually say they play males so that they don't get harassed.  Basically, males say, "I play a female character because I'm so masculine." and females say, "I play a male character because I'm so feminine."

Basically nothing.

Ain't this topic beaten to death already? You pay for the game, so you can play the whole content and use whatever the game has available to get entertainment out of it, be it faction, class, races, gender, looks of your character or whatever.

The only people who complain about others playing chars with a gender different to the one of the person play it are people, who are

• extremly old-fashioned (women wear skirts and belong to the kitchen, and men wear pants and go out to strangle boars for dinner)
• extremly religious (god said play no girls in mmorpgs)
• extremly insecure (if I play a female char others think I'm gay. but if I play a male char, I'm looking at a man all the time, and that sounds gay too! what should I do?!?!?)
• use the game mostly as a dating service (hey you, I really like you... where do you live? maybe we should...what you're a guy??!?)
• use the game for their sexual needs (hey sexy dwarven lady, I pay you 2000 gold if you come with me behind the guildbank and tell me something nice...)
   

And I see no reason why I should let any of those types tell me how to play a computergame.
The joke is anyway that all that gender stuff is changing so quickly. I mean less than a hundred years ago, pink was the color for boys and blue the color girls were dressed in. Since then it completly reversed.

Originally posted by Aemi

Originally posted by ferndip

A better question would be something like.......

 

Why the hell do guys think a mmorpg is a freaking dating service?

 

 

Some people do find people they like in MMO's. Usually leads to nowhere good. A "former" friend of mine married another friend of mine and they don't even live in the same country. Then broke up shortly after and my former friend tried to get and money from him >_>

She wasn't that good of a person to begin with but sometimes you can be friends with immoral people.

Anyway dating in a MMO never leads to anything good. If you do find someone you like that's great, but it shouldn't be where you look for love.

Holy generalization batman!  Never say never!

Actually this sounds like you may be projecting a bit.

I actually know of many people that have met over the course of MMO gaming and became happily married/couples.

I would even go so far as to say I have only heard of one bad experience in my 11+ years of online gaming involving this scenario.

The problem is people get too hung up on "looking" for love when they don't realize that it will find them when they least expect it...like in an MMO.

As to your post, I have two questions:

1. How exactly did they get married if they do not reside in the same country?  If it was a fly in, get married, fly back to country of origin type thing, that should have been a HUGE red flag.

2. Why are you surprised someone in a marriage that is going through a divorce is looking for financial gain?  At least in the USA it is not uncommon for one or both individuals to ask for financial compensation from the other.

/thread derail....

Lets just say there are a lot of lonely guys out there spending the majority of their time in MMORPGS.

When somebody spend the majority of their free time in online games they are going to be excitied by interacting with the other sex in a "safe" enviroment. I have been around long enough to know that as a fact.

Just the mere prospect of a female playing a femal avatar is enough for a lot of guys to overshower them with free items and cut them a lot of slack in MMORPGS in particular.

Having played female avatars myself knowing the stuff that happens to my wife and other people I know playing MMO's, is enough to convince me that a lot of gamers need to go out and start dating real women instead of getting their jollies of wouldbe/couldbe females in games.

Of course this is a broad generalization and not every gamer is as described above but they do come in big numbers.

 I'm a male, but I do play female characters. Or rather roleplay as them. I always state OOC, that I'm a guy, so as not to create confusion. Ironically enough, I do have some issues with my gender, shared with my girlfriend. actually. Guess that makes me an odd one out. 

Roleplayers are generally more understanding regarding that thing, since they know of a "character-player separation".