Dont like it dont play it simple as that. either that or bitch about a game you dont play on some crappy forum oh wait you allready did that

Originally posted by Illyssia

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by pepsibottle

 Eve is an advanced screensaver, operated by reading an encyclopedia upside down in broken English.

 

HAHA ADVANCED?? most of EVE is 2D.Screen savers can and do have a lot of animation,EVE has almost NONE,so no sorry CCP has a lot of catching up to do to match the tech of modern screen savers.

DUST will actually surpass it finally and allow CCP to be a part of the modern gaming world,somewhere along the lines CCP went from Dinosaur to riding around in an Acura.No they won't reach sports car status ,but hey it's a big jump moving from a Flinstone car to an Acura.

 

Dust 514 is a console mmo fps based in the EvE universe that is supposed to compliment EvE online, yet both games are played separately. This is how CCP describes it:

 

"Dust 514 is the infantry, and an Eve Online player can contract a Dust team to go in and take control of a planet. The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

 

I think they are looking for players from their current 300K more than anything else. I would have thought it would be a bit of a burden, though, for serious EvE players to have to play part of their game through a console as well. Not certain how this will actually work out.

 

CCP specifically stated that Dust is not primarily aimed at existing EvE players. They're looking to expand their "EvE-verse" IP to the console market.

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

EvE far from sucks,

 

1. it has 300k subs.

2. It has a decent PvP focus.

3. It is a form of sandbox game.

4. It has a large core loyal fanbase.

 

True its PvE is lacking compared to mainstream MMO,s such as WoW or EQ, but this hardly makes it a game that sucks.

 

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

While the OP might be a troll, I just wanted to point out that popularity doesn't make something qualitatively good.  If that was the case, then WoW is more than 20x better than EvE.  Want to admit that's true?  Just because you can find a lot of people who want to play a game doesn't automatically mean that said game is objectively good.

---

Originally posted by AxehiltI've run the repeating PVE Missions for weeks. I have money, but what else does EVE even offer me?  PVP if I wanted to be a jerk to others.  Mining if I wanted to leave EVE running while not playing it.
There just aren't a variety of interesting things to do in EVE, and that's my big complaint with it.  I log onto EVE, stare at my ship, and can't think of anything interesting to do.  I log into Haven & Hearth and there are hundred different activities to try out, and progress to be made.

---

This is the meat of the argument. I quit Eve because grinding asteroids was no fun. Killing pirates was a big snore fest. Manufacturing was somewhat interesting, but considering one person's goods are no better than another's (T1) and most of the stuff is junk anyway, and there are some 50,000 places to distribute it (which would be cool if 200 of these places weren't within minutes of each other at any given place in high-sec).

The social aspects of Eve are awful. A 'pug' is an excuse to PvP without consequences, so no one does it. Everyone is suspected of being a spy. People shoot on sight in lowsec because a person isn't within a trusted circle. Why? Because otherwise it can be a huge security risk. PvP when it does happen, needs to be paid for by PvE, which isn't all that interesting. Sure, could get guildies to PvE to support your PvP, but that just means someone else has to deal with the boring crap, and there's only so much of this PvE-tolerance resource to go around.

And the other PvE aspects like research and more? Well, I wanted to get into those, but they were locked behind a month long skill queue.

No ability to PUG, soloing being instant death in the 'interesting' parts of the game, PvP paid for by PvE, and parts of the game locked by the skill system.

Originally posted by Cephus404

While the OP might be a troll, I just wanted to point out that popularity doesn't make something qualitatively good.  If that was the case, then WoW is more than 20x better than EvE.  Want to admit that's true?  Just because you can find a lot of people who want to play a game doesn't automatically mean that said game is objectively good.

LOl this thread is the epidamy of what's wrong with a lot of the posters on this site. Perhaps even a reflection of the piss poor attitude of mmo gamers in general. But it's probably just here, I don't want to get carried away.

Cephus you obviously don't enjoy playing EVE. So what? Many people do.

Personally after playing WOW for a couple of months back in January '05 I couldn't bring myself to log in anymore. I was hideously bored and cared absolutely nothing about leveling my character any further. The exact same thing happened to me in WAR, AION, and a few others.

But I never post negative crap about those games because that to me is a complete waste of time and my intelligence. I love a good ripe peach. Some prefer a crisp apple. WTF do I care, lol.

I lived in the most culturally dynamic city in the world for most of my life. There were immigrants living there together from an incredible amount of different countries. For some strange reason a very tiny percentage of them started doing something very odd. They were putting bumper stickers on the back of their cars stating their country of origin. Like a little flag banner. In the past these were sold to tourists. Even weirder it seemed only to be 2 or 3 ethnicities doing it. No need to point fingers here at all but If you can't even bring yourself to respect the flag of the country that you have decided to call home... please kindly fucking leave. I can remember people from all sorts of different backgrounds complaining about it and asking why in a such a multicultural society do people need to broadcast information like this, because no one cares. Some of my friends who were the 2cd or 3rd generation of immigrants were even doing it. WTH you weren't even born in that country.

Anyhoo enough of my rant. I think in the end I'm never going to get why some of you guys need to constantly tell others why you dislike something over and over and over and over. Maybe some of you seriously need to start thinking about switching your careers into broadcasting. Perhaps radio? Or the holy grail of venues... your own talk show.

Moved thread.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

 

Funny enough I can never play EVE for more than a couple months specificly because I feel that it limits my intellectual goals too much.  Whenever I try the game again, I get all gung ho about the complex systems and end up developing my own spreadsheets, run simulations and really get my brain cells going.  Then as the second month nears, I start feeling 'intellectual claustrophobia'.   I start feeling trapped and it seems that everytime I want to expand my game interests in the directions that have the most appeal to me, the game is piling barriers in front of me.  The game seems to try and force me into PvP and corp politics, areas I do not find to be that intellectually stimulating. 

if your not interested in pvp then avoid eve, because high sec isnt safe, you can be wardec'd and podded before you can say the words, jita's lagging today! or suicide gank if your silly enough to travel through high sec on autopilot with a valuable cargo....so, fess up, your upset with Eve because you got podded.

Originally posted by comerb

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

I'll admit I didn't play the game for 5 years, because the skill advancement system drove me off.  I remember having to wait at least a week for skill-ups just to fly a certain ship (which I could have bought 4 times over).  

What is too exasperating?  Too bad whenever EVE fans try to respond to my argument they don't respond with an actual argument, instead they either call me a troll, a newb, stupid, etc. 

I'd say the people who are stupid are the ones who can't even put up a decent argument for why that skill-advancement system makes sense.  All you guys do is ignore the fact that CCP are idiots and put it an idiotic skill system only there for casual carebears who are willing to maintain subscriptions for very long times (without having to actually play the game.)

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.  I was farming AQ40 when most people were wiping in molten core.  You think you are a better player than me?  You who are playing a game that does not even require any time investment at all.  A game that just bases everything off of length of subscription.  And I'm the stupid one?  Lol.

And when player A can fly 10 ships just as well as player B can fly one, I would say player A has a better character.  Even if B can fly at the same level as A in only 1 ship, player A is more versatile and their character is better.  Their character is better only because they have a subscription 10 times as long as you.  

Sorry EVE players can't handle games that require logging in and playing. 

And yeah you can stop responding to me, because you lost the argument.  EVE does have an intelligence threshold like you say, but it's probably not the people above that threshold who are playing it.  I certainly wouldn't play an MMORPG where you investing time and effort into your character is not as important as having kept a subscription for several years.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

EvE far from sucks,

 

1. it has 300k subs.

2. It has a decent PvP focus.

3. It is a form of sandbox game.

4. It has a large core loyal fanbase.

 

True its PvE is lacking compared to mainstream MMO,s such as WoW or EQ, but this hardly makes it a game that sucks.

 

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

While the OP might be a troll, I just wanted to point out that popularity doesn't make something qualitatively good.  If that was the case, then WoW is more than 20x better than EvE.  Want to admit that's true?  Just because you can find a lot of people who want to play a game doesn't automatically mean that said game is objectively good.

First off, I'm not a troll.  Sorry you EVE people can't understand things from my point of view, all you have to do is say troll because you can't put up any legitimate arguments.

Now that that's settled.. are you really going to claim EVE is better than WoW?  I played both games and there is a big difference between them.  

See in EVE all that counts is how much money you feed to CCP.  The more money they get, the more ships become available to your character.  

In WoW, you can invest time/effort into your character and have some control over the rate of your character advancement.  

I don't understand how anyone can stomach an MMORPG that doesn't let you advance your character faster with increased playtime/increased effort.  Why should subscription time matter?

I don't play WoW either btw, it wasn't challenging enough.  I played EQ a long time ago, every MMORPG since then has been pretty bad.  But I do think that WoW is pretty good compared to games like EVE.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Cephus404

While the OP might be a troll, I just wanted to point out that popularity doesn't make something qualitatively good.  If that was the case, then WoW is more than 20x better than EvE.  Want to admit that's true?  Just because you can find a lot of people who want to play a game doesn't automatically mean that said game is objectively good.

LOl this thread is the epidamy of what's wrong with a lot of the posters on this site. Perhaps even a reflection of the piss poor attitude of mmo gamers in general. But it's probably just here, I don't want to get carried away.

Cephus you obviously don't enjoy playing EVE. So what? Many people do.

Personally after playing WOW for a couple of months back in January '05 I couldn't bring myself to log in anymore. I was hideously bored and cared absolutely nothing about leveling my character any further. The exact same thing happened to me in WAR, AION, and a few others.

But I never post negative crap about those games because that to me is a complete waste of time and my intelligence. I love a good ripe peach. Some prefer a crisp apple. WTF do I care, lol.

I lived in the most culturally dynamic city in the world for most of my life. There we're immigrants living there together from an incredible amount of different countries. For some strange reason a very tiny percentage of them started doing something very odd. They were putting bumper stickers on the back of their cars stating their country of origin. Like a little flag banner. In the past these were sold to tourists. Even weirder it seemed only to be 2 or 3 ethnicities doing it. No need to point fingers here at all but If you can't even bring yourself to respect the flag of the country that you have decided to call home... please kindly fucking leave. I can remember people from all sorts of different backgrounds complaining about it and asking why in a such a multicultural society do people need to broadcast information like this, because no one cares. Some of my friends who were the 2cd or 3rd generation of immigrants were even doing it. WTH you weren't even born in that country.

Anyhoo enough of my rant. I think in the end I'm never going to get why some of you guys need to constantly tell others why you dislike something over and over and over and over. Maybe some of you seriously need to start thinking about switching your careers into broadcasting. Perhaps radio? Or the holy grail of venues... your own talk show.

God forbid someone ever criticize features of games that COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD.  Maybe we shouldn't criticize anything about any MMORPG, so we get lousy MMORPGs with broken features and bad ideas. 

My point in making this post was to expose the broken skill system in EVE, and other problems with the game.  By doing that, I inform others about why EVE is a bad game.  Maybe CCP will someday realize that MMORPGs should allow players to advance by playing it.  But they took a different route and are catering to people who don't invest any time in MMORPGs.  

The same type of person who pays someone to level their character from 1-60 because logging in and leveling is just too unreasonable and time consuming.  Clearly MMORPGs shouldn't require any time investment.   Is that really who MMORPGs should target? 

I'd really hate it if more MMORPGs came out with a system similar to EVEs.  Sure the people here are fine with it, they play the game.  They already have months/years into their character, so the system is fine.  Just think about why your game is not popular, and why WoW has 100x more people than EVE.  It's because WoW and other MMORPGs don't have broken leveling systems like EVE does.

Originally posted by Zoobi

Dear Ginkeq,

I read with interest this thread generated by your OP, thank you for making this thread.

May I humbly offer an alternative to waiting for a toon to skill up, namely, you can buy one! CCP has a sanctioned method for buying toons from other people so your wait is over. CCP also have a method for you to gain isk using real life money, so grinding for that pesky dreadnaught will not trouble you if you are rich enough, in real life.

I hope these two small facts will make your EVE experience richer and more fulfilling.

cheers!

Wow, I didn't even know that...

So you really don't even have to play EVE to be good at it.  Just maintain a subscription long (or buy a character, since it's apparently legal in EVE), and then buy some ISK from CCP too (with RL money).

It's becoming more obvious to me why EVE is a failure of an MMORPG.  They made the scam too apparent & let it influence game mechanics too much.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

God forbid someone ever criticize features of games that COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD.  Maybe we shouldn't criticize anything about any MMORPG, so we get lousy MMORPGs with broken features and bad ideas. 

My point in making this post was to expose the broken skill system in EVE, and other problems with the game.  By doing that, I inform others about why EVE is a bad game.  Maybe CCP will someday realize that MMORPGs should allow players to advance by playing it.  But they took a different route and are catering to people who don't invest any time in MMORPGs.  

The same type of person who pays someone to level their character from 1-60 because logging in and leveling is just too unreasonable and time consuming.  Clearly MMORPGs shouldn't require any time investment.   Is that really who MMORPGs should target? 

I'd really hate it if more MMORPGs came out with a system similar to EVEs.  Sure the people here are fine with it, they play the game.  They already have months/years into their character, so the system is fine.  Just think about why your game is not popular, and why WoW has 100x more people than EVE.  It's because WoW and other MMORPGs don't have broken leveling systems like EVE does.

The skill system isn't broken, most of us who play the game think its brilliant, and wish more games were like it.  Just because you don't care for it doesn't make it defective.

You continue to talk smack about EVE players not putting any time into the game.  There are people who play 14 hours a day like the guy who runs the wormhole I operate out of, (which isn't healthy btw) and people who play less.  We put as much time (if not more) than any gamer out there.  We just don't waste time on training our skills, we work on other stuff.

You did have one valid point, you can buy/sell characters in EVE for ISK. I don't do it, (most foiks don't because they are very expensive).  But you can buy characters (legally or otherwise) for any other game so your argument is specious.

WOW is popular for many reasons, but I won't bother listing them here. (go ask Zorndorf, he'll be happy to share)  EVE is unpopular to many people, that's fine too.  No one said we all have to play the popular games, and no one said you have to play EVE.  It caters to a certain mindset, and you don't have it. (that is neither a good or bad thing, you are just wired differently)

Oh this just aint freakin right!

---

Originally posted by Ginkeq
Sorry you EVE people can't understand things from my point of view, all you have to do is say troll because you can't put up any legitimate arguments.

---

Wheter you like the game or not is just a matter of personal preference, there is no place for arguments in subjective affiliation.

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

If and when you "beat" Eve please send us a telegram.

We'd love to know at what point the "beating" occurs.

I'm willing to bet you have a lot more experience with "beating" than the average Eve player.

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

Now that was a really fine post X-Porter......

Well done.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by comerb

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

 

I'll admit I didn't play the game for 5 years, because the skill advancement system drove me off.  I remember having to wait at least a week for skill-ups just to fly a certain ship (which I could have bought 4 times over).  

What is too exasperating?  Too bad whenever EVE fans try to respond to my argument they don't respond with an actual argument, instead they either call me a troll, a newb, stupid, etc. 

I'd say the people who are stupid are the ones who can't even put up a decent argument for why that skill-advancement system makes sense.  All you guys do is ignore the fact that CCP are idiots and put it an idiotic skill system only there for casual carebears who are willing to maintain subscriptions for very long times (without having to actually play the game.)

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.  I was farming AQ40 when most people were wiping in molten core.  You think you are a better player than me?  You who are playing a game that does not even require any time investment at all.  A game that just bases everything off of length of subscription.  And I'm the stupid one?  Lol.

And when player A can fly 10 ships just as well as player B can fly one, I would say player A has a better character.  Even if B can fly at the same level as A in only 1 ship, player A is more versatile and their character is better.  Their character is better only because they have a subscription 10 times as long as you.  

Sorry EVE players can't handle games that require logging in and playing. 

And yeah you can stop responding to me, because you lost the argument.  EVE does have an intelligence threshold like you say, but it's probably not the people above that threshold who are playing it.  I certainly wouldn't play an MMORPG where you investing time and effort into your character is not as important as having kept a subscription for several years.

First, I will admit the game starts slow(the first month specifically).  I'm not a fan of learning skills, and I think a lot of the core skills should probably be trained to a respectable level (say level 2) when you generate a character. However, that doesn't change the fact that within 3 months you can be directly competing with veteran players in several different important ship-classes(if you specialize your training).  And within a single week, you can be contributing to a fleet thats filled with veteran players.  I don't know of a single other game that has such a quick turnover to allow players to get involved in real action.

Now, I'll comment on a couple of your points.

1) You can't beat Eve. You're taking a skewed WoW player perspective and trying to attach it to Eve.  And yes, I at one point had a full T6 geared hunter in WoW, so your arm pumping means nothing to me.  I know how many bad players we carried all the way through Kil'jaeden.  It hardly matters anyway, because qualities that make a good WoW raider have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a good Eve player.  Again, you show your ignorance.

2)   You can't blindly say "the only argument Eve players give is that other players are stupid" while ignoring a large post I made explaining to you, in detail, exactly why the skill system works.  Just because you want to ignore content ladden posts because addressing them would make your look like an ass, doesn't mean they don't exist.

3)  Who the hell cares if player "A" can fly eleventy billion ships.  When your both staring down the barrel at each-other, you'll be on level playing field.  Hell, player "B" is actually at an advantage because he probably uses his ship of choice enough that he's simply a better pilot in it.  I don't understand your obsession with SP totals, it must be a power-gamer thing.  Is it really that important to wave your e-peen around?

Just keep on ignoring posts that explain why the system works the way it works.  It makes your inane "nobody can give me a reason" argument much more believable that way.

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

Here's another solid post for the reasons why.  

Just to add to this, when you make a game all about progression (via skillpoints or levels) it takes away from the soul of the game.  It makes the entire game about grinding skill-points or levels, and casts a shadow over the real important gameplay elements.

I play Eve to actually play Eve.  Not to grind skill point or levels.  It's refreshing.

Guys it's just a waste of time trying to explain what EVE is to him. His simplistic mind can't wrap a thought about EVE in any conceivable way. He has his mind set for a certain type of game play and can't expand beyond that.

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

 

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

 

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

A long and meaningless post..

You can't skill up because you can't exercise certain skills?  Ever hear of AA abilities in EQ?  Let the players invest exp into what skills they want.  At least other MMORPGs aren't complete garbage and allow people to invest time/effort into their characters for gains.  

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Ginkeq

God forbid someone ever criticize features of games that COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD.  Maybe we shouldn't criticize anything about any MMORPG, so we get lousy MMORPGs with broken features and bad ideas. 

My point in making this post was to expose the broken skill system in EVE, and other problems with the game.  By doing that, I inform others about why EVE is a bad game.  Maybe CCP will someday realize that MMORPGs should allow players to advance by playing it.  But they took a different route and are catering to people who don't invest any time in MMORPGs.  

The same type of person who pays someone to level their character from 1-60 because logging in and leveling is just too unreasonable and time consuming.  Clearly MMORPGs shouldn't require any time investment.   Is that really who MMORPGs should target? 

I'd really hate it if more MMORPGs came out with a system similar to EVEs.  Sure the people here are fine with it, they play the game.  They already have months/years into their character, so the system is fine.  Just think about why your game is not popular, and why WoW has 100x more people than EVE.  It's because WoW and other MMORPGs don't have broken leveling systems like EVE does.

The skill system isn't broken, most of us who play the game think its brilliant, and wish more games were like it.  Just because you don't care for it doesn't make it defective.

You continue to talk smack about EVE players not putting any time into the game.  There are people who play 14 hours a day like the guy who runs the wormhole I operate out of, (which isn't healthy btw) and people who play less.  We put as much time (if not more) than any gamer out there.  We just don't waste time on training our skills, we work on other stuff.

You did have one valid point, you can buy/sell characters in EVE for ISK. I don't do it, (most foiks don't because they are very expensive).  But you can buy characters (legally or otherwise) for any other game so your argument is specious.

WOW is popular for many reasons, but I won't bother listing them here. (go ask Zorndorf, he'll be happy to share)  EVE is unpopular to many people, that's fine too.  No one said we all have to play the popular games, and no one said you have to play EVE.  It caters to a certain mindset, and you don't have it. (that is neither a good or bad thing, you are just wired differently)

 

If EVE players invested a lot of time into their character there would be no point in playing EVE because they would be at a disadvantage compared to ebayers etc. who maintain long subscriptions to the game or buy characters/ISK.

So my view is that EVE is for the lazy MMORPG players who are too lazy to log into the MMORPG and do anything.  If they log on for anything its just to put a few points in a skill queue and come back in a week.  

I can see why you think it's brilliant if you are a person who plays an MMORPG 5 minutes a week.  That way someone more skilled / dedicated than you can't catch up to you.  Of course you like it.

CCP allows you to buy ISK / characters for a reason.  Their game probably wouldn't work without it.  I bet most EVE players just level skills for very long times then sell their character after a year.  That is who keeps EVE popular

EVE is unpopular because it sucks, and CCP had to choose an idiotic skill advancement system.  A space MMORPG and they ruin it with idiotic ideas...

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

 

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

 

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

A long and meaningless post..

You can't skill up because you can't exercise certain skills?  Ever hear of AA abilities in EQ?  Let the players invest exp into what skills they want.  At least other MMORPGs aren't complete garbage and allow people to invest time/effort into their characters for gains.  

Aren't you up past your bedtime?  Give it a rest, you've lost the argument.  (heck, you don't even know what the argument is about)

People do invest their skill points into the skills they want, they just don't have to hit a tree to do it.

Give it up already.

You got totally owned in this thread.

The only reason this thread has any heat is because you broke the rules and posted this in General forum.

If you had placed this post in Eve forums you would have been dismantled in 30 posts or less.

You know nothing of Eve, You can't wrap your head around it's mechanics and why people like it.

So give up and dream about your glory days in EQ.

Have fun "Beating" your mmos, whatever that means.

I'm glad Eve turned away another "Power gamer".

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by comerb

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

 

I'll admit I didn't play the game for 5 years, because the skill advancement system drove me off.  I remember having to wait at least a week for skill-ups just to fly a certain ship (which I could have bought 4 times over).  

What is too exasperating?  Too bad whenever EVE fans try to respond to my argument they don't respond with an actual argument, instead they either call me a troll, a newb, stupid, etc. 

I'd say the people who are stupid are the ones who can't even put up a decent argument for why that skill-advancement system makes sense.  All you guys do is ignore the fact that CCP are idiots and put it an idiotic skill system only there for casual carebears who are willing to maintain subscriptions for very long times (without having to actually play the game.)

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.  I was farming AQ40 when most people were wiping in molten core.  You think you are a better player than me?  You who are playing a game that does not even require any time investment at all.  A game that just bases everything off of length of subscription.  And I'm the stupid one?  Lol.

And when player A can fly 10 ships just as well as player B can fly one, I would say player A has a better character.  Even if B can fly at the same level as A in only 1 ship, player A is more versatile and their character is better.  Their character is better only because they have a subscription 10 times as long as you.  

Sorry EVE players can't handle games that require logging in and playing. 

And yeah you can stop responding to me, because you lost the argument.  EVE does have an intelligence threshold like you say, but it's probably not the people above that threshold who are playing it.  I certainly wouldn't play an MMORPG where you investing time and effort into your character is not as important as having kept a subscription for several years.

First, I will admit the game starts slow(the first month specifically).  I'm not a fan of learning skills, and I think a lot of the core skills should probably be trained to a respectable level (say level 2) when you generate a character. However, that doesn't change the fact that within 3 months you can be directly competing with veteran players in several different important ship-classes(if you specialize your training).  And within a single week, you can be contributing to a fleet thats filled with veteran players.  I don't know of a single other game that has such a quick turnover to allow players to get involved in real action.

Now, I'll comment on a couple of your points.

1) You can't beat Eve. You're taking a skewed WoW player perspective and trying to attach it to Eve.  And yes, I at one point had a full T6 geared hunter in WoW, so your arm pumping means nothing to me.  I know how many bad players we carried all the way through Kil'jaeden.  It hardly matters anyway, because qualities that make a good WoW raider have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a good Eve player.  Again, you show your ignorance.

2)   You can't blindly say "the only argument Eve players give is that other players are stupid" while ignoring a large post I made explaining to you, in detail, exactly why the skill system works.  Just because you want to ignore content ladden posts because addressing them would make your look like an ass, doesn't mean they don't exist.

3)  Who the hell cares if player "A" can fly eleventy billion ships.  When your both staring down the barrel at each-other, you'll be on level playing field.  Hell, player "B" is actually at an advantage because he probably uses his ship of choice enough that he's simply a better pilot in it.  I don't understand your obsession with SP totals, it must be a power-gamer thing.  Is it really that important to wave your e-peen around?

 

Just keep on ignoring posts that explain why the system works the way it works.  It makes your inane "nobody can give me a reason" argument much more believable that way.

Lol @ Tier 6.  Tier 6 is after they nerfed the game several times because almost every guild was getting beaten by trash mobs in BWL and MC.

Anyway

1) Who cares if the EVE and WoW endgame are different?  EVE is based off of subscription times, and amount of money you give to CCP.  It has nothing to do with time/effort investment

2) I understand the system perfectly well.  The longer you maintain a subscription, the better your character is, regardless of playtime

3)  I do care, why does some newbie deserve to have a better character just because they played the game longer?  That doesn't mean they are good.  Sometimes people who play MMORPGs heavily suck at them.  Should they be given the best, most capable characters in the game?  CCP is suhc a stupid company, they couldn't put in a system that would weed out bad players, so they just give everything to people based on subscription lengths.

Anyone starting EVE now would be like having a permanent level 50 in a game where there are 60 levels.  Always be behind, no matter how hard you try.. because some lazy player had a subscription longer and CCP sucks