I also agree with this article . The pets are a vanity item , & a poor one at that . Even the associated title that it will help you achieve is a vanity title .

Though many see this microtransaction as the thin edge of the wedge , I am optimistic enough to believe that Blizzard are not fools . They have a huge money making MMO at stake . If they were to introduce RMT items that gave a gameplay advantage , then the stampede away from WoW would be thunderous .

The one niggling doubt that I have is that adding RMT of gameplay advantageous items to a subscription game has been financially successful in the past . CCP introduced PLEX ( a RMT bought timecard that could be sold to other players for ingame money ) into EVEonline & the game is probably more popular now than it has ever been . In EVEonline , having the best ship & implants that money ( ISK ) can buy & not having to worry about the cost of replacing them is a big advantage .

My optimism has waned to wishful thinking as my niggling doubt grows .

Originally posted by Tetters

 But does it really matter if someone bought their super weapon or went killed some boss to get it?

Yes, absolutely.

WoW is just a game, a bunch of pixels, what happens there is only fantasy, its not real life. Would it ruin my gameplay in all honesty ... no, not a jot.

I play online games the way I want to play them, I don't buy gold or in-game currency, I don't rush to maximum level, I just try and enjoy my time online. What someone else has or doesn't have, or how they achieved what they have, doesn't affect me in any way, my game is still the same. We can't always look around us and feel we have to have what others have, that erodes who we are.

Bragging is a big part of social interaction. In real life, and in an MMO. When you play an MMO, you do affect other players in at least a small way - unless you never group, never chat, and never use the AH.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

To be fair, use of "QQ" was good enough for the paid writer of the original article.

So much for standards.

Did you even actually READ the article? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I told people to pick their battles, not QQ. I don't use slang like that in any of my articles. If I was going to tell someone to go cry about it. I would say it in plain English.

No John you are trying to justify blizz jumping on the rmt bandwagon and even worse its a p2p subscription game. Thats is the point and what people are enraged about. Very good reason to cry "wolf" imo. And the stuff about next time...Well this is the next time in a long line of developments in the mmo industry to bleed the player base for rl money..

Interesting though that you are back handedly defending blizz. My guess is you are worried about not getting and interviwéw next time around blizz has something to say.

And as far as games for gamers well it was blizz that coined the term if i remember..

So your article is a horrible example to cover blizzes tracks into the wrip players off trend now going on from rmt to paid betas..

Grrr

bobm111

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Tetters

 But does it really matter if someone bought their super weapon or went killed some boss to get it?

Yes, absolutely.

WoW is just a game, a bunch of pixels, what happens there is only fantasy, its not real life. Would it ruin my gameplay in all honesty ... no, not a jot.

I play online games the way I want to play them, I don't buy gold or in-game currency, I don't rush to maximum level, I just try and enjoy my time online. What someone else has or doesn't have, or how they achieved what they have, doesn't affect me in any way, my game is still the same. We can't always look around us and feel we have to have what others have, that erodes who we are.

Bragging is a big part of social interaction. In real life, and in an MMO. When you play an MMO, you do affect other players in at least a small way - unless you never group, never chat, and never use the AH.

so what you are saying is that bragging is a key part of your MMO experience? I don't feel the need to brag in-game or in real life.

I play in a kinship in LOTRO and was always guilded in WoW.  I am not sure how I my kinmates and guildmates came by their equipment, but it doesn't affect my gameplay as much as how I came by my equipment affected anyone around me.

The only time RMT could be damaging to a pay-to-play MMO is when you can't reach a destination without paying to get there. If in LOTRO I couldn't access a town without having to buy a pass or such, I would have a huge issue with that. If it became restrictive that would be bad, but the choice to buy a pet or not, or worst case, equipment or not, to me just isn't important.

 46 pages on this thread and still going. Maybe people against this aren't really a "minority" if it generates this much discussion (at least in forums, and don't come up with the "true numbers" BS, otherwise we should be all retards that simply accept everything imposed to us without discussion), and I still remember 200+ pages of RMT discussion on CO's cash shop, and Cryptic is so small financially compared to Blizzard.

Selling virtual items for real money in a monthly subscription game is still a very hot issue, there's a reason we still pay a monthly fee when you have hundreds of "free-to-play" MMOs around.

Originally posted by Teala

Dude - there is like a bazillion post on this thread...OMG if I took the time to read all the responses I'd be in an old folks home cleaning my dentures!

I am honoured that you chose to read my post while ignoring all others, but you really should not have.

I disagree with this article.  You pay for a game and expect certain things.  Updates and new stuff. 

All this is, is to test the waters and see what the market will take.  It's asinine to expect people to sit on their laurels while paying for a game and then to get some new shiny stuff you pay extra.  I don't care if it's just fluff, you don't expect to pay extra when you're already paying monthly for that fluff.  If the customer doesn't show his/her dissatisfaction now, all it will do is show indifference.  I can promise you it won't stop as long as people sit back and 'take it'.

really the wrtier of this story pissed me off and i stopped reading ,,  he starts off and in the third paragraph or so he says its comparing apples to zebra's then 3  more paragraphs down he compares blizzard to huggies ... so anything written after that i did not read ,,,,, as far as blizzard goes ,, yeah i agree money hungry ... they have a huge subscription base .. and to say they are not making money you gotta be kidding me ... lets see how many celebratity comercial did we see last year and this year ...... ozzy , mr.t , the lil dude . and i know im forgeting some...anyways they advertisment spending is crazy even after the game is very well known ..... goodluck to all you wow players

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

To be fair, use of "QQ" was good enough for the paid writer of the original article.

So much for standards.

Did you even actually READ the article? Stop putting words in my mouth.

I told people to pick their battles, not QQ. I don't use slang like that in any of my articles. If I was going to tell someone to go cry about it. I would say it in plain English.

I apologize. I reread the article and could not find that term written there.

Originally posted by Tetters

so what you are saying is that bragging is a key part of your MMO experience?

Not mine, no. I don't even look up loot tables for instances. It is true for a LOT of people - even most.

 I don't feel the need to brag in-game or in real life.

I play in a kinship in LOTRO and was always guilded in WoW.  I am not sure how I my kinmates and guildmates came by their equipment, but it doesn't affect my gameplay as much as how I came by my equipment affected anyone around me.

 You never linked an item you just got off a boss?

The only time RMT could be damaging to a pay-to-play MMO is when you can't reach a destination without paying to get there. If in LOTRO I couldn't access a town without having to buy a pass or such, I would have a huge issue with that. If it became restrictive that would be bad, but the choice to buy a pet or not, or worst case, equipment or not, to me just isn't important.

It's damaging because it distracts the devs making new content away from subscribers to making new items for the cash shop. Do you think those two new pets would never have been added to the game if the shop hadn't existed? They would be in as quest rewards, likely, and everyone would have a chance at them - without paying extra.

As for paid content - wait and see. DDO is doing it, and we all know how Blizzard likes to copy ideas.

I can't believe this has reached 47 pages. Some of you are taking this way way too seriously. You are overreacting to such an extreme degree that it has long since past the point of being ridiculous...

Yes, Blizzard has adopted some minor RMT in their game. Yes, this could potentially lead to more RMT down the road. But you are taking this much too far.

Like it or not, RMT is eventually going to overtake all other payment models in this genre. It just makes more business sense for companies to allow more opportunities for profit. Those of you who are so adamantly opposed to it are going to be very disappointed in a few years when every game is doing it. So far, Blizzard has done something very very minor that does not effect gameplay or balance in the slightest. None of the items they are offering will give ANY advantage over another player. They have not taken the next big step and extended RMT to more objectionable items... yet.

Until they actually do something worth getting so pissed about, how can this ridiculous debate help anything? This is really no different from the RMT blizzard has already offered for character transfer and recustomization... all of it has absolutely no effect on the abilities of your character. It gives NO advantage of any sort. Like Jon wrote in his article, you are just crying wolf. No one is going to take the community seriously later on if everyone is this up in arms about something so trivial.

Come on people... stop freaking out so much. I think a lot of you need to take a step back and really think about this issue before you start flinging accusations and blindly hating on Blizzard for this. RMT is going to become more of a trend whether you like it or not. It is how each company implements it that is imporant. Blizzard, so far, has been nothing but reasonable in this regard.

Originally posted by EricDanie

 46 pages on this thread and still going. Maybe people against this aren't really a "minority" if it generates this much discussion ...

I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.

MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"?  Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by EricDanie

 46 pages on this thread and still going. Maybe people against this aren't really a "minority" if it generates this much discussion ...

I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.

MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"?  Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?

Who  knows what the future brings but having a completely optional pet shop for those who enjoy collecting such things that doesn't change the game one bit won't affect anything.

Originally posted by Gyrus

I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.

MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"?  Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?

Well, I never played SWG, but this does bear some similarity to what I have heard about NGE. The devs made a change they knew would drive some players away in order to increase profits.

Its amazing how on these forum so much hate is being thrown around and yet in the game itself pretty much no one gives a shite.

Originally posted by Rzep

Its amazing how on these forum so much hate is being thrown around and yet in the game itself pretty much no one gives a shite.

I see this less about hate and more about concern.  We will see how this turns out when the cash shop becomes so much more than just for vanity items.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Tetters

so what you are saying is that bragging is a key part of your MMO experience?

Not mine, no. I don't even look up loot tables for instances. It is true for a LOT of people - even most.

 I don't feel the need to brag in-game or in real life.

I play in a kinship in LOTRO and was always guilded in WoW.  I am not sure how I my kinmates and guildmates came by their equipment, but it doesn't affect my gameplay as much as how I came by my equipment affected anyone around me.

 You never linked an item you just got off a boss?

The only time RMT could be damaging to a pay-to-play MMO is when you can't reach a destination without paying to get there. If in LOTRO I couldn't access a town without having to buy a pass or such, I would have a huge issue with that. If it became restrictive that would be bad, but the choice to buy a pet or not, or worst case, equipment or not, to me just isn't important.

It's damaging because it distracts the devs making new content away from subscribers to making new items for the cash shop. Do you think those two new pets would never have been added to the game if the shop hadn't existed? They would be in as quest rewards, likely, and everyone would have a chance at them - without paying extra.

As for paid content - wait and see. DDO is doing it, and we all know how Blizzard likes to copy ideas.

I can honestly say that I have never linked an item I have won off a boss. Those that had an interest in my success were there at the time and played a major part anyway. I can also state that I have never said 'ding' when levelling, not once.

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't DDO free-to-play now? I thought I heard somewhere that it is ... If so, that would make it not a great comparison to WoW, as their way to make money is to sell content etc in the game itself?

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by Gyrus

Originally posted by EricDanie

 46 pages on this thread and still going. Maybe people against this aren't really a "minority" if it generates this much discussion ...

I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.

MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"?  Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?

 

Who  knows what the future brings but having a completely optional pet shop for those who enjoy collecting such things that doesn't change the game one bit won't affect anything.

You said it yourself - Optional thing that doesn't change the game ...  Would a real gaming company then put it into their game ?  No - Buisness company would....

Thats the thing.  BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming company - into a pure buisness company.  Where the experince of the gamer becomes second choise.  EXTRA money matters more.

Originally posted by Frobner

 You said it yourself - Optional thing that doesn't change the game ...  Would a real gaming company then put it into their game ?  No - Buisness company would....

Thats the thing.  BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming compnay - into a pure buisness company.  Where the experince of the gamer becomes second chose.  EXTRA money matters more for them.

This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.

Originally posted by Tetters

I can honestly say that I have never linked an item I have won off a boss. Those that had an interest in my success were there at the time and played a major part anyway. I can also state that I have never said 'ding' when levelling, not once.

LOL. Grats. I'm not being sarcastic. I mean that. I am so sick of people dinging. I only ding when maxed out.

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't DDO free-to-play now? I thought I heard somewhere that it is ... If so, that would make it not a great comparison to WoW, as their way to make money is to sell content etc in the game itself?

I believe it is optional - F2P (buying content) or full access with a subscription. At first glance, that seems a reasonable method. I still think it might cause biased choices in what content gets added.

Originally posted by Frobner

Blizzard has sold out - and at the same time changing the face of WOW forever.  Before WOW was a game where the GAMER could while playing get everything in the game.  This fundemental thing has now changed.  Some ppl are talkin about the card game pets beeing exactly the same.  Thats simply not true since ppl that bought the Card game were not nessiserily WOW players - they were buying a card game.  

You missed the bus buddy.  You can't get 'everything in game' just by playing.   The first collector's edition had an in-game EXCLUSIVE item, if you want to get that item NOW, you are looking at hundred's of dollars for a mint original WoW collector's edition.    Most people buy collector's editions and pre-order packs just to get in-game vanity perks.  Everyone does it, getting a perk from BlizzCon or the BlizzCon DirectTV stream is no different from buying a vanity item outright on their website, which is no different from buying TCG codes, which is no different from any other game that has 'pay us extra money and get an in-game bonus'.   The big difference here is ANYONE can buy the vanity pets in the store, you have to be in the right place at the right time, or pay extra money for exclusive items like Grunty, Mini-Diablo, etc.

Originally posted by Tetters

The only time RMT could be damaging to a pay-to-play MMO is when you can't reach a destination without paying to get there. If in LOTRO I couldn't access a town without having to buy a pass or such, I would have a huge issue with that. If it became restrictive that would be bad, but the choice to buy a pet or not, or worst case, equipment or not, to me just isn't important.

Isnt this EXACTLY how expansions work? They add new content area's... and to get there you have to pay.

The reality is that people have been paying for content since day 1... and then paying a monthly fee use that content (service charge). This is what P2P is all about, charging upfront for the content.

What we are seeing here, is the ability to unbundle the packages, and sell them as separate parts (singles vs albums). The album is a better 'deal' but only if you like all the songs. If only like 1-2 of them, then the singles are better.

Holy f*** WOW has a cash shop... Whoever decided to add this feature is responsible for the future ruination of this game. No game with a cash shop ever survives.