Originally posted by WSIMike

Wow... how many times am I going to have to repeat this. 

People are resorting to strawman arguments now and it's ridiculous.

We are talking about the concept of *playing* the game rather than *paying* to avoid playing it, but still be successful. Thus, how much a ball player is paid in this analogy has nothing to do with it. It's about how the game itself is played.

It has nothing to do with how highly paid the players are... They still have to play, and play well, in order to win. Ball games aren't won in a bidding war by who ever writes the higher check. It comes down to *the players themselves*, not *how much money is being spent*. 

What you aren't getting is that analogy is flawed, but the argument makes sense IF the RMTs sell items to enhance the skills of your toons. xp pots don't count as it's just levels, not skill that's being affected. Vanity pets also fall useless in your argument.

What's left?!

Like I said previously, when and where items being sold can change a player skill ingame, then I'll concede the point. For the most part they have not yet, else link me where it does, and I'll agree that game will not be worth playing.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by mothelm

Originally posted by Horusra

But if the market says that people would rather pay money than pay with time who are you to tell the market it is wrong? 

 

since it seems you missed how about this ..from same type of paying model as MMO's and i assuming you are male here please excuse me if you are  not

You subscribe to Playboy for the last 2 years....this month your playboy shows up with all the articles but none of the pictures...and a small letter that says ...if you would like to get the pictures please send us and extra 20 $per month on your subscrption...now you mag says playboy on the cover..has articles written by playboy staff ...so it is playboy but is it the playboy you paid for ?

 

 

That is the most ridiculous analogy yet. Nothing has been removed from any game with RMTs. They add something...

at a price.

 

The analogy is about a game that starts P2P and then ads RMT, if I understand it correctly.

In other words, what you originally paid for, is not what you get.

If the game is RMT to begin with, then you are correct.

 

I understand your point, though adding fluff items is trivial, and until they items that can change the player's character's skills, the point is all moot. I'll completely agree when RMTs being added to a P2P game makes skill altering boosts to characters.

XP pots, really? That's just jealousy of having someone pay to level faster, sure won't help them play later on at max lvl and others see how little they know of their class.

Pets? Again jealousy at not being to get the same pet for free.

 

 

Yes, XP pots. I like ot play a game where all characters are equal because they all did the same content.

XP pots allows you to skip content, which means characters are not equal.

But it evens out in the end, as at max lvl the ones not using xp pots will undoubtedly be better at their class.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

With the recent introduction of the pet store in WoW and other RMT schemes in other MMOs there seems to be an uproar amongst the community that i don't quite understand.

What is the problem with it?

This already exists in all(most) games with Gold sellers, the only difference is that is now controlled by the game producers?

Surely this is a good thing, at least your credit card will not get scammed and It would also go someway to eliminate the gold sellers no?

As such I cannot see why anyone would oppose, it unless of course it would impact your own gold selling buisness ;-)

 

The only real problem with RMT/Cash Shop/ Item Mall (whatever you want to call it) is because all the companies that do it right now, royally screw it up. Most of those games (I say most only because I haven't played every single game with RMT) don't charge for vanity, nifty, shiny etc items. They charge you for the items you need to actually play and be competitive in the game. And it's not just small asian companies. The huge companies are just as guilty. Go take a look at SOE's Free Realms. Yes, it is mostly a kids game and no, you don't have to buy anything...unless you actually want to win at something in the later levels.

I am waiting on Blizzard to make WoW F2P with RMT as their income. They are one of the few companies that won't completely screw it up. Why? Because they have yet to completely screw over their players. Yes, alot of people bitch and whine about this change and that change to WoW, but those changes were based upon "majority rules". IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP 11 MILLION PLAYERS 100% HAPPY 100% OF THE TIME. Anyways, as I was saying, they have never screwed over their players and will do a fantastic job changing a game to a F2P with RMT. Because of this, many other companies will follow suit with their up and coming F2P games. They'll take it from "Buy this epic gear to succeed" to "Buy this pet cause it just looks freakin awesome".

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by WSIMike

Wow... how many times am I going to have to repeat this. 

People are resorting to strawman arguments now and it's ridiculous.

We are talking about the concept of *playing* the game rather than *paying* to avoid playing it, but still be successful. Thus, how much a ball player is paid in this analogy has nothing to do with it. It's about how the game itself is played.

It has nothing to do with how highly paid the players are... They still have to play, and play well, in order to win. Ball games aren't won in a bidding war by who ever writes the higher check. It comes down to *the players themselves*, not *how much money is being spent*. 

 

What you aren't getting is that analogy is flawed, but the argument makes sense IF the RMTs sell items to enhance the skills of your toons. xp pots don't count as it's just levels, not skill that's being affected. Vanity pets also fall useless in your argument.

What's left?!

Like I said previously, when and where items being sold can change a player skill ingame, then I'll concede the point. For the most part they have not yet, else link me where it does, and I'll agree that game will not be worth playing.

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by mothelm

Originally posted by Horusra

But if the market says that people would rather pay money than pay with time who are you to tell the market it is wrong? 

 

since it seems you missed how about this ..from same type of paying model as MMO's and i assuming you are male here please excuse me if you are  not

You subscribe to Playboy for the last 2 years....this month your playboy shows up with all the articles but none of the pictures...and a small letter that says ...if you would like to get the pictures please send us and extra 20 $per month on your subscrption...now you mag says playboy on the cover..has articles written by playboy staff ...so it is playboy but is it the playboy you paid for ?

 

 

That is the most ridiculous analogy yet. Nothing has been removed from any game with RMTs. They add something...

at a price.

 

The analogy is about a game that starts P2P and then ads RMT, if I understand it correctly.

In other words, what you originally paid for, is not what you get.

If the game is RMT to begin with, then you are correct.

 

I understand your point, though adding fluff items is trivial, and until they items that can change the player's character's skills, the point is all moot. I'll completely agree when RMTs being added to a P2P game makes skill altering boosts to characters.

XP pots, really? That's just jealousy of having someone pay to level faster, sure won't help them play later on at max lvl and others see how little they know of their class.

Oh, how ironic. 

So wait... when players with less time to play complain about how terrible it is that they can't progress as fast as others with more time to play, it's a legitimate gripe. Asking for faster leveling, easier-to-obtain gear and such is a valid and reasonable request...

Yet... when xp potions - introduced, ostensibly, to help "level the playing field" - are called into question by someone else, it's suddenly because of "jealousy" that others might level faster?

Wow... hypocritical much?

Pets? Again jealousy at not being to get the same pet for free.

Again with the hypocrisy!

He's on a roll, folks!

So, when people complained that they couldn't get better pets, or gear, or anything like that because they didn't have the time to play that others do and how *unfair* it was... .adding them as item mall items was a fair decision.

But when someone who would rather *play* the game to obtain those items complains that there is no option for obtaining them besides buying them - you know... such as actually playing the game to get them (novel concept, I know, just try and wrap your head around it this one time) - it's "jealousy".

Classic. Absolutely classic.

 

Consider this,

1) Expansion packs are a form of RMT, don't have enough money to buy the expansion then sorry no lvl 80 for you, no extra races, no extra content etc for you. Although packaged differently it still consitutes a real money transacation.

2) Although many of these games do not have a relaistic economy, RMT go some way to destroy economies. For example, I am an enchanter, and then all of a sudden they introduces an RMT into my game that sells enchants, my profession immediately gets diluted.

Just some thoughts.

Originally posted by mothelm

 

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

 

 

Yes, it'd be a bummer if you were a pet collector, but how is that like removing pictures from a magazine you subscribe to and asking for those removed things? It makes no sense, it'd make more sense had you said, pay 5$ more for extra pics of November's centerfold. I mean, if you really wanted them, you'd pay..no? maybe not.

How is this related to the argument that these items makes you a better player? Having a stronger, faster character, or better at crafting, PvP, endgame raiding?

Too many people crying over how it changes but no show of which of these items do this. Just analogies with no bearing on this discussion.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by mothelm

 

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

 

 

 

Yes, it'd be a bummer if you were a pet collector, but how is that like removing pictures from a magazine you subscribe to and asking for those removed things? It makes no sense, it'd make more sense had you said, pay 5$ more for extra pics of November's centerfold. I mean, if you really wanted them, you'd pay..no? maybe not.

How is this related to the argument that these items makes you a better player? Having a stronger, faster character, or better at crafting, PvP, endgame raiding?

Too many people crying over how it changes but no show of which of these items do this. Just analogies with no bearing on this discussion.

B/C i am not arguing a specfic game or what it is doing i am using a genral example of how this can (and in my dealing with the corp. america ) and will end up ...listen the velvet rope idea for video games is just wrong on so many levels..it hard to pick just one so my point is that when theese things really start changing gameplay in big way (and yes they will its only a matter of time..please refer to John Smedly and his speach about the velevt rope and where its going) that it will cause a major turn in how theese online gameds are done

...for an example of this refer to Xbox-live or playstaion network...how come i didnt get the content when i payed 60$ for this game...ohh wait thats right xbox wants another piece on live account and the game devolper wants another piece for DLC...all i should have gotten with the purchase of the console and the the game  its double dipping pure and simple
 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

I understand your point, though adding fluff items is trivial, and until they items that can change the player's character's skills, the point is all moot. I'll completely agree when RMTs being added to a P2P game makes skill altering boosts to characters.

XP pots, really? That's just jealousy of having someone pay to level faster, sure won't help them play later on at max lvl and others see how little they know of their class.

Oh, how ironic. 

So wait... when players with less time to play complain about how terrible it is that they can't progress as fast as others with more time to play, it's a legitimate gripe? Asking for faster leveling, easier-to-obtain gear and such is a valid and reasonable request...

Yet... when xp potions - introduced, ostensibly, to help "level the playing field" - are called into question by someone else, it's suddenly because of "jealousy" that others might level faster?

Wow... hypocritical much?

Pets? Again jealousy at not being to get the same pet for free.

Again with the hypocrisy!

He's on a roll, folks!

So, when people complained that they couldn't get better pets, or gear, or anything like that because they didn't have the time to play that others do and how *unfair* it was... .adding them as item mall items was a fair decision.

But when someone who would rather *play* the game to obtain those items complains that there is no option for obtaining them besides buying them - you know... such as actually playing the game to get them (novel concept, I know, just try and wrap your head around it this one time) - it's "jealousy".

Classic. Absolutely classic.

 

 

LOL  You can disagree with me on my points, but you have not a debating fiber in your bones by calling me a hypocrite. You obviously don't know the definition of the word, since I never contradicted myself, or shown any proof of the opposite of what I have said. It's all my opinion and you have yours, calling me names only reduces you to a sore loser, getting frustrated at someone you can't beat verbally. Keep up the good work.

I didn't introduce the xp pots, so using them might be a hypocritical thing to do if I did use them, but since you have no proof of this, then this makes you a liar.

And yes, by leveling faster than you in game, and you get angry...that's jealousy. Maybe you can get your head around that, it's a normal feeling to have. Nothing evil or abnormal about it. Is assaulting me for saying it really going to vindicate your views on RMTs? If it does, then I;m happy to help with your mental health.

Originally posted by mothelm

 

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

 

 

Just gonna say this here.  My nephew is 13 and he actually started going around to the neighbors looking for odd jobs till he got his 10$ for the pandaren.  So its not like its an insurmountable amount of money... and as far as it goes, if you are going for the achievement, its perfectly reachable w/o these 2 pets.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by mothelm

 

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

 

 

 

Yes, it'd be a bummer if you were a pet collector, but how is that like removing pictures from a magazine you subscribe to and asking for those removed things? It makes no sense, it'd make more sense had you said, pay 5$ more for extra pics of November's centerfold. I mean, if you really wanted them, you'd pay..no? maybe not.

How is this related to the argument that these items makes you a better player? Having a stronger, faster character, or better at crafting, PvP, endgame raiding?

(psst.... it's called an analogy, not a literal 1-to-1 comparison)
 

Too many people crying over how it changes but no show of which of these items do this. Just analogies with no bearing on this discussion.

Ahh so not only are you hypocritical, you're dismissive as well.

So... when people "can't" get something because they "don't have enough time to play" - such as, a pet - it's a legitimate gripe, and adding them to the item mall is a valid and reasonable action.

Yet... when people who would normally enjoy doing the quest - or whatever other activity required - to obtain that same pet (you know... actually playing the game), however long it takes, lose that option because it's now an item-mall only item... they're "crying" about it.

Wow... your true character is coming through more and more with every post... and it's not painting a very flattering picture.
 

 

Originally posted by thg7f

Originally posted by mothelm

 

ok then so are the pic the reason you ordered playboy or the articles ? cause you have just hit the nerve of my point ...all RMT effect's someone's gameplay in someway ..what you consider fluff i may not...what if i am a pet collector and wanted thoose pets they are selling but cant afford them ...should i not have a way even if itis  very difficult to aquire them without shelling out money ? keeping in mind i have already paid the cost of the game expansions and suscrption fee ?

 

 

Just gonna say this here.  My nephew is 13 and he actually started going around to the neighbors looking for odd jobs till he got his 10$ for the pandaren.  So its not like its an insurmountable amount of money... and as far as it goes, if you are going for the achievement, its perfectly reachable w/o these 2 pets.

Hehehe Sorry you hit the end of the topic the ampounts of money arent really and issue here its the idea of already paying subscrption and being charged again for in-game stuff i cant get in another fashion
 

ohh i havent played WoWo in good while btw i was just using this a a platform =_)

Originally posted by mothelm

B/C i am not arguing a specfic game or what it is doing i am using a genral example of how this can (and in my dealing with the corp. america ) and will end up ...listen the velvet rope idea for video games is just wrong on so many levels..it hard to pick just one so my point is that when theese things really start changing gameplay in big way (and yes they will its only a matter of time..please refer to John Smedly and his speach about the velevt rope and where its going) that it will cause a major turn in how theese online gameds are done

...for an example of this refer to Xbox-live or playstaion network...how come i didnt get the content when i payed 60$ for this game...ohh wait thats right xbox wants another piece on live account and the game devolper wants another piece for DLC...all i should have gotten with the purchase of the console and the the game  its double dipping pure and simple
 

Look, Xbox and PS3 are not the same thing as an mmo, you're talking content, not items to increase your character's skills. And if they did that for single player games, then that's a different debate altogether.

I don't play asian grinders so i can't list all of what RMTs sell or don't sell. My first iteration of RMTs were for WoW's vanity pets and fluff items. When they get more character boosting, then I'll have to re-evaluate my pov.

Until they get there, I understand the argument made but I don't subscribe to it.

This is not necessarily true if you look at Asian vs Western markets. I think RMT may be more popular than subs in Asian markets, however in Western markets I think subscription games are more popular than RMT games.

I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that Lineage 2 and FF XI are the biggest MMORPGs in Asia (not counting WoW). And they are all subscription based.

By big I dont mean number of subscribers, because RMT games can have millions of registered users that does not pay anything (or even play), but rather how much money they bring in every month.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

I understand your point, though adding fluff items is trivial, and until they items that can change the player's character's skills, the point is all moot. I'll completely agree when RMTs being added to a P2P game makes skill altering boosts to characters.

XP pots, really? That's just jealousy of having someone pay to level faster, sure won't help them play later on at max lvl and others see how little they know of their class.

Oh, how ironic. 

So wait... when players with less time to play complain about how terrible it is that they can't progress as fast as others with more time to play, it's a legitimate gripe? Asking for faster leveling, easier-to-obtain gear and such is a valid and reasonable request...

Yet... when xp potions - introduced, ostensibly, to help "level the playing field" - are called into question by someone else, it's suddenly because of "jealousy" that others might level faster?

Wow... hypocritical much?

Pets? Again jealousy at not being to get the same pet for free.

Again with the hypocrisy!

He's on a roll, folks!

So, when people complained that they couldn't get better pets, or gear, or anything like that because they didn't have the time to play that others do and how *unfair* it was... .adding them as item mall items was a fair decision.

But when someone who would rather *play* the game to obtain those items complains that there is no option for obtaining them besides buying them - you know... such as actually playing the game to get them (novel concept, I know, just try and wrap your head around it this one time) - it's "jealousy".

Classic. Absolutely classic.

 

 

 

LOL  You can disagree with me on my points, but you have not a debating fiber in your bones by calling me a hypocrite. You obviously don't know the definition of the word, since I never contradicted myself, or shown any proof of the opposite of what I have said. It's all my opinion and you have yours, calling me names only reduces you to a sore loser, getting frustrated at someone you can't beat verbally. Keep up the good work.

I didn't introduce the xp pots, so using them might be a hypocritical thing to do if I did use them, but since you have no proof of this, then this makes you a liar.

And yes, by leveling faster than you in game, and you get angry...that's jealousy. Maybe you can get your head around that, it's a normal feeling to have. Nothing evil or abnormal about it. Is assaulting me for saying it really going to vindicate your views on RMTs? If it does, then I;m happy to help with your mental health.

 

Nice try, but sorry... that dog won't hunt.

Nothing "sore loser" about me. I have made, and stand by, my argument many times on this very topic, a few times in this very thread.

My response to you was merely to call you out on your blatant hypocrisy... which is exactly what it is. Spin it, paint it or back-pedal away from it however you wish.

As for "name calling"? Funny how people use that defense when something about themselves that they don't like is exposed.

How is that "name calling", because I said you were being hypocritical? That's not a "name". It's an adjective, describing your behavior/attitude. That said, someone who demonstrates hypocrisy, especially multiple times, is duly referred to as being hypocritical. If the shoe fits.... If the term bothers you so much, then perhaps you should change the behavior?

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by mothelm

B/C i am not arguing a specfic game or what it is doing i am using a genral example of how this can (and in my dealing with the corp. america ) and will end up ...listen the velvet rope idea for video games is just wrong on so many levels..it hard to pick just one so my point is that when theese things really start changing gameplay in big way (and yes they will its only a matter of time..please refer to John Smedly and his speach about the velevt rope and where its going) that it will cause a major turn in how theese online gameds are done

...for an example of this refer to Xbox-live or playstaion network...how come i didnt get the content when i payed 60$ for this game...ohh wait thats right xbox wants another piece on live account and the game devolper wants another piece for DLC...all i should have gotten with the purchase of the console and the the game  its double dipping pure and simple
 

 

Look, Xbox and PS3 are not the same thing as an mmo, you're talking content, not items to increase your character's skills. And if they did that for single player games, then that's a different debate altogether.

I don't play asian grinders so i can't list all of what RMTs sell or don't sell. My first iteration of RMTs were for WoW's vanity pets and fluff items. When they get more character boosting, then I'll have to re-evaluate my pov.

Until they get there, I understand the argument made but I don't subscribe to it.

Where do you think the idea came from for DLC content...and ohh what is content...?.....in a video game its lines of code that add to game play in some fashion be it vanity pets or a dungeon or new raid mob its all the same
 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

Yes, it'd be a bummer if you were a pet collector, but how is that like removing pictures from a magazine you subscribe to and asking for those removed things? It makes no sense, it'd make more sense had you said, pay 5$ more for extra pics of November's centerfold. I mean, if you really wanted them, you'd pay..no? maybe not.

How is this related to the argument that these items makes you a better player? Having a stronger, faster character, or better at crafting, PvP, endgame raiding?

(psst.... it's called an analogy, not a literal 1-to-1 comparison)
 

Too many people crying over how it changes but no show of which of these items do this. Just analogies with no bearing on this discussion.

Ahh so not only are you hypocritical, you're dismissive as well.

So... when people "can't" get something because they "don't have enough time to play" - such as, a pet - it's a legitimate gripe, and adding them to the item mall is a valid and reasonable action.

Yet... when people who would normally enjoy doing the quest - or whatever other activity required - to obtain that same pet (you know... actually playing the game), however long it takes, lose that option because it's now an item-mall only item... they're "crying" about it.

Wow... your true character is coming through more and more with every post... and it's not painting a very flattering picture.
 

 

 

I'm dismissive? About the pets? Yes it's a gripe, but i don't see is as one. You might and that's fine. I don't. My opinion..see how this works?

If we're going to argue with your line of logic, then how are you different by calling into question my opinions by saying I'm a hypocrite, dismissive, and showing my true nature, whatever you read in that, huh?

Whatever, I'm done arguing about this.

All my points were made and I have nothing else to say on the matter. Have a good day all.

and our chat was just gettign interesting

Anf still no one has answer the question is it still the playboy you ordered or not ?  haha

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

I understand your point, though adding fluff items is trivial, and until they items that can change the player's character's skills, the point is all moot. I'll completely agree when RMTs being added to a P2P game makes skill altering boosts to characters.

XP pots, really? That's just jealousy of having someone pay to level faster, sure won't help them play later on at max lvl and others see how little they know of their class.

Oh, how ironic. 

So wait... when players with less time to play complain about how terrible it is that they can't progress as fast as others with more time to play, it's a legitimate gripe? Asking for faster leveling, easier-to-obtain gear and such is a valid and reasonable request...

Yet... when xp potions - introduced, ostensibly, to help "level the playing field" - are called into question by someone else, it's suddenly because of "jealousy" that others might level faster?

Wow... hypocritical much?

Pets? Again jealousy at not being to get the same pet for free.

Again with the hypocrisy!

He's on a roll, folks!

So, when people complained that they couldn't get better pets, or gear, or anything like that because they didn't have the time to play that others do and how *unfair* it was... .adding them as item mall items was a fair decision.

But when someone who would rather *play* the game to obtain those items complains that there is no option for obtaining them besides buying them - you know... such as actually playing the game to get them (novel concept, I know, just try and wrap your head around it this one time) - it's "jealousy".

Classic. Absolutely classic.

 

 

 

LOL  You can disagree with me on my points, but you have not a debating fiber in your bones by calling me a hypocrite. You obviously don't know the definition of the word, since I never contradicted myself, or shown any proof of the opposite of what I have said. It's all my opinion and you have yours, calling me names only reduces you to a sore loser, getting frustrated at someone you can't beat verbally. Keep up the good work.

I didn't introduce the xp pots, so using them might be a hypocritical thing to do if I did use them, but since you have no proof of this, then this makes you a liar.

And yes, by leveling faster than you in game, and you get angry...that's jealousy. Maybe you can get your head around that, it's a normal feeling to have. Nothing evil or abnormal about it. Is assaulting me for saying it really going to vindicate your views on RMTs? If it does, then I;m happy to help with your mental health.

 

Nice try, but sorry... that dog won't hunt.

Nothing "sore loser" about me. I have made, and stand by, my argument many times on this very topic, a few times in this very thread.

My response to you was merely to call you out on your blatant hypocrisy... which is exactly what it is. Spin it, paint it or back-pedal away from it however you wish.

As for "name calling"? Funny how people use that defense when something about themselves that they don't like is exposed.

How is that "name calling", because I said you were being hypocritical? That's not a "name". It's an adjective, describing your behavior/attitude. That said, someone who demonstrates hypocrisy, especially multiple times, is duly referred to as being hypocritical. If the shoe fits.... If the term bothers you so much, then perhaps you should change the behavior?

 

Then you truly lack th definition of hypocrisyfriend, but good luck in your future endeavors. I need not point your obvious flaw at reading comprehension about what I posted, but keep believing hat you will.  You're the artist here, spinning what you wish with words not contextually said.
 

And I still think you're a jealous whiner.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

Yes, it'd be a bummer if you were a pet collector, but how is that like removing pictures from a magazine you subscribe to and asking for those removed things? It makes no sense, it'd make more sense had you said, pay 5$ more for extra pics of November's centerfold. I mean, if you really wanted them, you'd pay..no? maybe not.

How is this related to the argument that these items makes you a better player? Having a stronger, faster character, or better at crafting, PvP, endgame raiding?

(psst.... it's called an analogy, not a literal 1-to-1 comparison)
 

Too many people crying over how it changes but no show of which of these items do this. Just analogies with no bearing on this discussion.

Ahh so not only are you hypocritical, you're dismissive as well.

So... when people "can't" get something because they "don't have enough time to play" - such as, a pet - it's a legitimate gripe, and adding them to the item mall is a valid and reasonable action.

Yet... when people who would normally enjoy doing the quest - or whatever other activity required - to obtain that same pet (you know... actually playing the game), however long it takes, lose that option because it's now an item-mall only item... they're "crying" about it.

Wow... your true character is coming through more and more with every post... and it's not painting a very flattering picture.
 

 

 

 

I'm dismissive? About the pets? Yes it's a gripe, but i don't see is as one. You might and that's fine. I don't. My opinion..see how this works?

If we're going to argue with your line of logic, then how are you different by calling into question my opinions by saying I'm a hypocrite, dismissive, and showing my true nature, whatever you read in that, huh?

Whatever, I'm done arguing about this.

All my points were made and I have nothing else to say on the matter. Have a good day all.

Dance, baby dance!

... nevermind... you're not very good at it.
 

Anyone know the address for the eq2 ingame store? After all this debate I have some fact checking to do.I've seen it said that they offer just about anything and everything, from weapons to fully lvl'd characters. IS this true? I ask this to anyone who plays, I have googled it twice haven't seen anything but illegal rmt links. Can you only access it from in-game?

i think you are looking for station exchange or something like that check EQ2player.com

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

Then you truly lack th definition of hypocrisyfriend, but good luck in your future endeavors. I need not point your obvious flaw at reading comprehension about what I posted, but keep believing hat you will.  You're the artist here, spinning what you wish with words not contextually said.
 

And I still think you're a jealous whiner.

LOL... and yet again with the hypocrisy! 

You accuse me of name calling... which I never did, incidentally. And yet here you are doing exactly that... Yes... calling someone a "whiner", is, in fact, name calling. See? You're being hypocritical again.

Go ahead... get those dancin' shoes on again and try to deny it. 

And... yes... I do know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, thank you very much. Though... let me double-check... just to make sure its meaning hasn't changed...  Yep... still has the same meaning it always has, and I am using it properly.

I agree... I think this little "boxing match" of ours has long since outlived its fun.... Thanks for playing, though.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by whisperwynd

 

Then you truly lack th definition of hypocrisyfriend, but good luck in your future endeavors. I need not point your obvious flaw at reading comprehension about what I posted, but keep believing hat you will.  You're the artist here, spinning what you wish with words not contextually said.
 

And I still think you're a jealous whiner.

LOL... and yet again with the hypocrisy! 

You accuse me of name calling... which I never did, incidentally. And yet here you are doing exactly that... Yes... calling someone a "whiner", is, in fact, name calling. See? You're being hypocritical again.

Go ahead... get those dancin' shoes on again and try to deny it. 

And... yes... I do know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, thank you very much. Though... let me double-check... just to make sure its meaning hasn't changed...  Yep... still has the same meaning it always has, and I am using it properly.

I agree... I think this little "boxing match" of ours has long since outlived its fun.... Thanks for playing, though.

 

Are this much hard-pressed to 'win' this debate? LOL

The fact you saw this as a game just means you had no intention to debate, just debase. Your 'insinuations' of my hypocrisy are what? The fact I said if items were sold in RMTs that gave a visible advantage to the skills of a toon were in fact a gripe but xp pots are not makes me that? LOL ok...people who say such are allowed and just because I see what they mean does not mean I have to agree with them.

I said I saw the argument but didn't agree, hence the 'crying' over it, and I still stand by that.

The name calling as you call is also simply an adjective describing your insistence at trying to provoke me with ridiculous attempts of baiting without showing where you see these hyprocritic sentences.

So, whatever else you see as anything but giving my opinion is simply slander on your part, and your little game will never get under my skin m8, you just aren't that good.

I'll take my consolation prize since I didn't best you in your mind... 

Originally posted by VultureSkull

With the recent introduction of the pet store in WoW and other RMT schemes in other MMOs there seems to be an uproar amongst the community that i don't quite understand.

What is the problem with it?

This already exists in all(most) games with Gold sellers, the only difference is that is now controlled by the game producers?

Surely this is a good thing, at least your credit card will not get scammed and It would also go someway to eliminate the gold sellers no?

As such I cannot see why anyone would oppose, it unless of course it would impact your own gold selling buisness ;-)

 

The problem is what is an RMT and what is not. Real Money Trading (or RMT) is the act of play real life money for virtual money. RMTs are your gold sellers and buyers. Their damage to the economy of a game is well documented and if you want to see why they are bad you can look for examples on your own and I'll warn you: there is a big deal there. The problem is the MMO community as a whole have no idea what they are talking about most of the time. Point in case here.

Saying Blizzard is an RMT because they are charging you for something is just plain ignorant. This is a group of people who want what the company is selling, but believe they are entitled because they play the game. This is totally wrong. I have not played WoW in a long while now, but from my understanding of this particular situation you are getting an in-game pet for a donation to a charity? Please correct if that is wrong. What is going on here you are getting a bound item that you cannot trade or profit off of for real-life money. This is an almost direct correlation to XBOX Live's avatar system or PlayStation Home's Market Place. You are purchasing virtual items with real life currency to make you avatar pretty. It is nothing more than that.

If you are looking at some game changing weapon you are purchasing for real money then you'd have a slight argument since it is a direct benefit to someone by having it and thus a hindrance to anyone who doesn't have it. Even then Blizzard would not be RMT they would be implementing a microtransation system and that item would probably be bound to you and unsellable (or sold at an extreme nominal price). Why? Because you could buy 100 of these items sell them or trade them for other goods that you could sell and get gold that you could sell for something you really want. That WOULD mirror what an RMT does and then you have the right to complain about it.

As it stands now Blizzard (or any company) has the right to charge you for what they want to charge you. If you are going to complain about the option of buying a virtual pet then then you could be complaining about almost requiring to buy Cataclysm when it comes out. Monthly fees, expansions, character transfers, race changing (are you charged for that?) ... things you need to pony up the dough for, but the outrage over a non-beneficial virtual pet it sickening. Where is the outrage about the mini-diabolos pet you got for purchasing the collectors edition of the original game. You paid an extra $10-$15 to get that that too. It is the same deal as these new virtual pets (I'll just assume you get at least a thank you letter out of game). Yeah, y'all forgot about that one didn'tcha?

If you don't feel you should be nickel and dimed for every piece of game gear, then don't buy it; I wouldn't personally. Look at my XBOX Live and PlayStation Home avatars, they have clothes that were defaulted. It isn't important to me so I won't get it. If you feel that Blizzard is sinning against you by charging you money don't pay them. If getting every little pet in this game is your thing then pony up the dough. If you are like me and honestly don't care: frankly stfu and stop spreading this vile bullshit because ignorance breeds ignorance and I'm tired of dealing with ignorance.