With the recent introduction of the pet store in WoW and other RMT schemes in other MMOs there seems to be an uproar amongst the community that i don't quite understand.

What is the problem with it?

This already exists in all(most) games with Gold sellers, the only difference is that is now controlled by the game producers?

Surely this is a good thing, at least your credit card will not get scammed and It would also go someway to eliminate the gold sellers no?

As such I cannot see why anyone would oppose, it unless of course it would impact your own gold selling buisness ;-)

Originally posted by VultureSkull

With the recent introduction of the pet store in WoW and other RMT schemes in other MMOs there seems to be an uproar amongst the community that i don't quite understand.

What is the problem with it?

This already exists in all(most) games with Gold sellers, the only difference is that is now controlled by the game producers?

Surely this is a good thing, at least your credit card will not get scammed and It would also go someway to eliminate the gold sellers no?

As such I cannot see why anyone would oppose, it unless of course it would impact your own gold selling buisness ;-)

 

Nah not at all first off your post suggests that selling "pets" is going to stop gold selling, how?  Gold is a denomination used as currency in WOW and seems to have no effect on this pet mart.  Also your post seems to assume that we all buy gold for our games.  I have never bought currency from a gold seller for any game I've played so I can't see your point the wya you put it.
 

  And again until the MMO companies begin to offer us currency for RMT your point is hollow and totally moot.

I highly doubt most gamers care at all that fluff is sold through RMT. However, a small and vocal minority is violently opposed to it, and for them it is a huge deal and may even be game-breaking.

That's my opinion, and if you don't like it, I have others.

Not again..

Because some of us think that paying for the box+expansions+monthy sub should be enough.

This has nothing to do about gold selling... Its about greedy companies who are doing everything do nickle and dime their fans.

It is about people that have more time that money complaining that they will no longer be at the top of the game.  Their fun is based on being better than others in a video game.  Thus if someone with less time can come in and buy something that they would once have grinded 20 hours to get and show off to others they are mad.  they will try to hide it as something else, but they are worried they will lose their top spot in MMO's.

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

There are many ways to implement RMT, some more benign than others. 

Fluff pets are no concern to me, but if you want to see what people are really afraid of, go play Runes of Magic.  Its what WOW could have been if they had designed it around an RMT model.

And ROM isn't the worst offender, at least there everything you can buy can be obtained by hard work in the game, there are some RMT games where that isn't true and you can only get certain game impacting gear/potions/upgrades by purchasing from the cash shop.

Ultimately, I think most MMORPG's will evolve into sort of a cable-TV model, where you get the basic game (channels) for a set monthly fee, and then they'll be all sorts of extras you can add (like HBO, Showtime) for perhaps an addition to the basic feel coupled with one-off deals (Pay per view) in cash shops.

Sure, some folks will quit playing MMO's, but for the most part the customer market base will accept these changes.

Fact of the matter is, MMORPG's are costing more and more to make (some are rumored to be up in the 150M range now) and companies are exploring ways to ensure they recoup their investment.

Ultimately, they will adopt a payment model that maximizes revenues, because that's why they make games.

Originally posted by Horusra

It is about people that have more time that money complaining that they will no longer be at the top of the game.  Their fun is based on being better than others in a video game.  Thus if someone with less time can come in and buy something that they would once have grinded 20 hours to get and show off to others they are mad.  they will try to hide it as something else, but they are worried they will lose their top spot in MMO's.

I can understand that, And  I can do that already by buying gold can i not?

RMT just takes the black market out of it and makes it all above board.

Thanks for your point Kyleran, selling things in a shop that are not available elsewhere in the game is a valid point for disapproval of the RMTs.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

RMTs are not limited to gold selling and most MMORPGs are not build on the concept that you can buy gold with real money, it is an illegal activity.

If MMORPGs start to support RMTs and subscriptions then you as a user will need to pay more to access content that you used to be able to access with your subscription fee.

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

Originally posted by Yamota

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

In other words - I don't want Bill Gates winning The Indy 500 or the Olympic marathon because he's the richest man on the planet.

Originally posted by Kyleran

There are many ways to implement RMT, some more benign than others. 

Fluff pets are no concern to me, but if you want to see what people are really afraid of, go play Runes of Magic.  Its what WOW could have been if they had designed it around an RMT model.

And ROM isn't the worst offender, at least there everything you can buy can be obtained by hard work in the game, there are some RMT games where that isn't true and you can only get certain game impacting gear/potions/upgrades by purchasing from the cash shop.

Ultimately, I think most MMORPG's will evolve into sort of a cable-TV model, where you get the basic game (channels) for a set monthly fee, and then they'll be all sorts of extras you can add (like HBO, Showtime) for perhaps an addition to the basic feel coupled with one-off deals (Pay per view) in cash shops.

Sure, some folks will quit playing MMO's, but for the most part the customer market base will accept these changes.

Fact of the matter is, MMORPG's are costing more and more to make (some are rumored to be up in the 150M range now) and companies are exploring ways to ensure they recoup their investment.

Ultimately, they will adopt a payment model that maximizes revenues, because that's why they make games.

If people dont buy said games then they will make no profit. Would you play, or watch, a sports game where it was not the skills of the player involved who decided the outcome but rather how rich they are?

Games are not like TV shows, games are interactive in the sense that you engage in them, like any other games. When and if the outcome is based not on your skills but the size of your wallet then you can bet alot of competetive people, like me, will stop playing them and hence less profit to the companies.

Companies cannot ignore their consumer base, unless they have monopoly, and fortunately that is not the current case in MMORPGs.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Yamota

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

In other words - I don't want Bill Gates winning The Indy 500 or the Olympic marathon because he's the richest man on the planet.

Correct, I want the one with most skills to do that. Indy 500 is an unfourtunate example because in that sport the hardware makes a huge difference and hence money is a big factor. But if you take a sport like tennis, football then 99% of the outcome is based on the players skills and not their equipment.

Where as now in games only those with crap loads of time can access all the content instead of people with more cash able to access more content.  Face it.  RMT is not worse or better for your limiting content than using time to limit it.  The market is moving away from the time model because there are not enough unemployeed or people with part time jobs to make them enough money.  Instead they are moving to the real market which is casual players with more cash and the desire to see all the content of a game.  Hummm...who would I sell to?

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

RMTs are not limited to gold selling and most MMORPGs are not build on the concept that you can buy gold with real money, it is an illegal activity. Hence the introduction of RMT would make it legal.

My point about gold being in most games already means that if I can already buy any item on the auction house after using real money to buy Gold, then it is the same as buying something from an RMT with real money.

If MMORPGs start to support RMTs and subscriptions then you as a user will need to pay more to access content that you used to be able to access with your subscription fee.

It depends what is sold in the RMT, if it just things that already sold in the auction house then this will not be the case.

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

And this does not aready happen with people who buy Gold from gold sellers?

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

I agree 100% but if people are already cheating in this way by buying gold then it makes no difference if an RMT is introduced

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Yamota

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

In other words - I don't want Bill Gates winning The Indy 500 or the Olympic marathon because he's the richest man on the planet.

Correct, I want the one with most skills to do that. Indy 500 is an unfourtunate example because in that sport the hardware makes a huge difference and hence money is a big factor. But if you take a sport like tennis, football then 99% of the outcome is based on the players skills and not their equipment.

Pro team sports are about paying the cash to put the team together that beats the under funded team.  The Bad News Bear teams are very very rare and are the exception not the rule.
 

Originally posted by Horusra

Where as now in games only those with crap loads of time can access all the content instead of people with more cash able to access more content.  Face it.  RMT is not worse or better for your limiting content than using time to limit it.  The market is moving away from the time model because there are not enough unemployeed or people with part time jobs to make them enough money.  Instead they are moving to the real market which is casual players with more cash and the desire to see all the content of a game.  Hummm...who would I sell to?

People who earn stuff by playing the game are providing content to other players - by grouping with them, selling them drops they have won, crafting items for them, and chatting with them.

Buying your stuff from a RL shop doesn't do any of those things.

Originally posted by Horusra

Pro team sports are about paying the cash to put the team together that beats the under funded team.  The Bad News Bear teams are very very rare and are the exception not the rule.
 

Huge exaggeration. The game still has to be played. The trophy isn't automatically awarded to the team with the highest payroll.

You know nothing of sports if you think the highest payroll is anything like a guarantee of victory.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

RMTs are not limited to gold selling and most MMORPGs are not build on the concept that you can buy gold with real money, it is an illegal activity.

If MMORPGs start to support RMTs and subscriptions then you as a user will need to pay more to access content that you used to be able to access with your subscription fee.

It will create division between so called premium members, who can spend alot of money, and normal players that spend only the subscription feel. The premium members will then get the upper hand, not for anything done in game, but rather depending on the size of their RL wallet.

I dont know about you but when I play a computer game I dont want the outcome be decided on who has spent more money on the game but rather the skills, and time spent, of the people involved.

I approve of this description.

Also on a sidenote, you need to be clear on this aspect. Buying pets and stuff in a game is MICROTRANSACTION and is supported by the developers, you are covered for any problems

RMT is Real Money Trading and is giving you details to an unknown entity, you have no comeback if something happens, your Credit card details are stored and can be used for fraudulant activities and also used to open accoutns and conduct illegal activities ingame.

Being caught doing MT will normally result in enhancing your gameplay while RMT will normally result in your previous pixels being deleted, your account banned and loss of your enjoyment.

Many MMO are designed to have a 'Grind' in it to ensure players remain engaged in the game as long as possible, allowing the developer to maximise the cash intake from Subscriptions. by willing allowing RMT in a game this encourages players to buy gold and skip hole swathes of content (for example, why do a massive raid to obtain some gear when you can jsut pull out youor credit card and have it)

It would require a re-working in game mechanics to find something else to appease gamers, and it also results in a divide between gamers as some players dont want to be forced to have to pay cold cash in order to gain an advantage over other players.

CCP have done this quite well though but this could be due to the difference in teh gameplay where money is constantly required to build ship and buy stuff, as opposed to most MMO were a players acheive the 'best' gear and dont need to replace it.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

Ok lets put it this way:

I pay tax so the police can stop drug dealers, I dont pay tax so the police can sell drugs instead...

How is selling a drop content?  In what popular game besides Eve is crafting really any good (and Eve sells Isk) and really used at the top level, that people are scared RMT's are going to ruin.  All the chatting I have done in game is in guilds or corps.  As to grouping unless it is end game most people group to complete some quest or dungeon/instance.  Now unless you are saying that a game is just going to let you pay to get an instant finish I still fail to see your issue.

Even with xp potions, pets, mounts, etc.  I fail to see how that effects any of the issues you point out.  I do not see any game succeeding that would sell the end game items to people for cash.  People would stop playing.  You have just removed any carrot from the end of the game.  That is stupid and Blizzard is not stupid about making money. 

Face the fact the age of the hardcore is almost over.  There is not really market for it compaired to the casuals.  The casual does not want to waste 1 year grinding thousands of gold to buy a mount.  They will buy the gold from your chinese farms.  Why because in a game that is 70% casual focused they will pay to do the other 30% because they like the game.  That is the market and games providers will fill it.  Why waste 30% of their revenue to other companies.

Originally posted by Papadam

Ok lets put it this way:

I pay tax so the police can stop drug dealers, I dont pay tax so the police can sell drugs instead...

That is a very good analogy.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Horusra

Pro team sports are about paying the cash to put the team together that beats the under funded team.  The Bad News Bear teams are very very rare and are the exception not the rule.
 

Huge exaggeration. The game still has to be played. The trophy isn't automatically awarded to the team with the highest payroll.

You know nothing of sports if you think the highest payroll is anything like a guarantee of victory.

It is a hugh exaggeration to say you can get the skill on your team without the cash to buy it.  Yankees anyone.

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

 

Ok lets put it this way:

I pay tax so the police can stop drug dealers, I dont pay tax so the police can sell drugs instead...

You may taxes, and a part of that may be viewed as paying the police. However, in no way do have any say in what law they enforce. Nor can you dictate their breaks or their wage.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Papadam

Ok lets put it this way:

I pay tax so the police can stop drug dealers, I dont pay tax so the police can sell drugs instead...

 

That is a very good analogy.

Good till a government makes drugs legal to collect the tax revenue from them.  Aka...RMT.

Originally posted by Papadam

Originally posted by VultureSkull

My point is that if you can already buy gold in almost all games, how is RMT any different?

Explain please.

 

Ok lets put it this way:

I pay tax so the police can stop drug dealers, I dont pay tax so the police can sell drugs instead...

That is one point of view.

Another is legalise drugs and then the police can go after other things(and your tax will not be wasted on that but would go to fighting unrelated drug crime) , crimes are reduced overall as the price of drugs will drop and become affordable etc.

Drug violence usually stems from robbery etc to obtaimn funds to get drugs. Drug use in itself does not  prepetrate violence, apart from alcohol consumption (which is legal) ironically!

Another thing is that some says that time should be the measure  of what you can achieve in a game, but we all know that time is money.