Originally posted by girlgeek

Good for you.  Take a stand if it's something you feel strongly about.  Don't pay for something you don't WANT....I get that.  However, to make the statement, "These companies do not NEED millions....etc, etc," is just silly.  Companies are in business TO MAKE MONEY.  I'm pretty willing to bet, that if anyone that was whining in these threads was the CEO of Blizzard....they'd do the same thing.  It's only annoying because it's someone else that's making all that money.

 

Blizzard has every right to make money with their products HOWEVER they choose.  And the consumer has every right to choose not to buy or TO buy, whatever they choose. That's how supply and demand works.  Simple economics.

 

See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it.  You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money.  BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things.  So where should the cut off line be?  How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......

 

One of the better posts in the thread.

For me, RMT takes away that "at play" feeling. An MMO is supposed to be a game you play with others, and there will always be a sense of competing/comparison about how far you progress your character, how you do at collecting things, combat etc. RMT means that the in-game world is affected by out-of-game wealth, and I simply lose interest in being involved. I'd go so far as to say the concept leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not that I can really explain why.

Originally posted by Strap

For me, RMT takes away that "at play" feeling. An MMO is supposed to be a game you play with others, and there will always be a sense of competing/comparison about how far you progress your character, how you do at collecting things, combat etc. RMT means that the in-game world is affected by out-of-game wealth, and I simply lose interest in being involved. I'd go so far as to say the concept leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not that I can really explain why.

Because it's not fair or sporting to determine the winner of a game by how thick his wallet is.

Since Jons popcorn anology was so stupid Im going to try one myself...

This is like going to McDonalds and buy a Bicmac for $10 and then they charge you an extra $5 to get salt for your fries! And guess what ? We are giving $1 to charity so its OK! :)

IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE $10 !

You want a straw for that coke? Another $5!

You want a napkin? Another $5

You want a chair to sit on? Another $5

Damn Mcdonalds could make a fortune on this and nobody would complain because being greedy is GOOD!

I wuv the nerdrage here. Soon 16 pages and I belive it will be much longer when the day is over. Blizzard sees a way to earn som more money. Give em a break or do you guys something against a company trying to earn more money from their customer?  You will understand their doings when you are in the same position. More mmoney (see what I did there) makes the company and stock holders happier.

ROFLMAO.

The popcorn analogy was way off.  Popcorn has nothing to do with the movie at all.  A correct analogy would be to equate the pets as the 3d glasses when watching a 3d movie.

RMT has no business with subscription based games when charging at a premium price.   If Blizz wants to add a " Cash Shop " then drop the price to $7.99 

 I really don't get the misdirected anger here. A company puts something in a game that they know some people want and is willing to pay, AND a part goes to a good cause, do not require to buy it and people whine about having it there?

Because, "Down the line, it MIGHT get worse?!"

1. Deal with if and when it arrives to that.

2. You think because you pay a monthly fee for a game you can play WITHOUT any ill effect by said items gives you some right of ownership that you can have a say? Riiight...

You want to start a change? Stop paying for the game, get other like-minded ppl actually playing the game do the same and maybe you'll see something lean towards your way.

IMO however, you won't see anything like this because:

1. You're all too lazy to actually make any commitment to generate a change towards your loudly spoken goals.

2. Many of you probably do not even play the game but like to jump on the 'hate' wagon and justify your dislike of <insert topic here>.

3. Too many people will still play and even pay for said items and that's why they are there....there's DEMAND for them. Just like gold sellers. It's STILL a billion dollar business because as of right now there is still a demand for it, like it or not.

Originally posted by astrob0y

I wuv the nerdrage here. Soon 16 pages and I belive it will be much longer when the day is over. Blizzard sees a way to earn som more money. Give em a break or do you guys something against a company trying to earn more money from their customer?  You will understand their doings when you are in the same position. More mmoney (see what I did there) makes the company and stock holders happier.

And less money for us makes us less happy. See how that works?

Put a label on the box warning potential buyers that there are additional costs to experience the entire game.

Or be honest and up front and charge $20 a month all included.

With its unique position that is nothing less than a monopoly in the western market, blizzard has more responsibility than any other company. They have the right to do whatever they want, no one denies that, but there is the question of ethics and reprecussion in the rest of the genre. If it is okay for blizzard to introduce cash shops, if blizzard with its 6 milion subscribers (not counting asia) cannot make enough of a profit, how is a company with 100k subs going to to the same? 50k ? When Cryptic introduces a cash shop, you could say it is a policy of one company. When blizzard does the same, it starts to affect the whole genre. Everybody will be allowed and inclined to do it because "the most popular game does it too". There is nothing to stop them but ethics.

What is infuriating about this is that things start to get blurry, you are no longer sure what you are paying a subsctiption for. Everybody used to get the same thing by paying a subscription (that is, maintenance and content updates), but what is now happening is that developers are using your funding to produce content they intend to sell back to you. That is the dirty and sneaky truth about the subscription + cash shop combo. You dont need the minipet - but you paid for its creation and you cant have it unless you pay more. This is totaly not the same as popcorn in the movies. You didnt pay the popcorn twice.

I will stop right there, i dont want to make this too long for i believe i am writing in vain. No one of any importance in the gaming industry will listen to me (certainly not from blizzard) + there are now over 300 comments and i am unsure if mine will even be read by anyone.

I've read it.

Yes, of course MMORPG.com, the bastion of corporate worship, ardent believer in the Church of Record Profits and high priest of consumerism is fully behind the idea of the largest MMO in the world doing everything they can to squeeze every penny out of their loyal subscribers.

How about some tad less obviously slanted biases in opinion pieces and articles. Oh, I guess that's impossible for the website where every available square inch is jammed with advertisements and every front page article is "Brought to you by Dragon Age." (Real smart by the way: Let's plaster the articles on MMOs at this site with a huge distracting advertisement for a rival product! If I owned an MMO production company, I'd tell my marketing department to never deal with this website ever again and to pretend it doesn't exist.)

This website is a freaking joke.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by astrob0y

I wuv the nerdrage here. Soon 16 pages and I belive it will be much longer when the day is over. Blizzard sees a way to earn som more money. Give em a break or do you guys something against a company trying to earn more money from their customer?  You will understand their doings when you are in the same position. More mmoney (see what I did there) makes the company and stock holders happier.

And less money for us makes us less happy. See how that works?

Put a label on the box warning potential buyers that there are additional costs to experience the entire game.

Or be honest and up front and charge $20 a month all included.

You havent lost anything. The thing they are selling is a cosmetic item and will not affect the gameplay, you dont need to buy it to enjot the game. If you are not a collector and want to catch em all- but then you have made your choice. So your point is not binear as you are saying. So your post is plain wrong.

Originally posted by Xasapis

I've read it.

thanks :D

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

If this is true, then put your money where your mouth is and do away with your corporate sponsorship for just one day. Show us that you aren't ruled by the companies that pay your ad dollars.

I bet you can't do it. I bet there's no way you will ever do it and you and your co-workers are standing around the office sniggering at this post.

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

No the article was out of touch for the vocal minority that already for the most part hated WoW.  The majority agree and keep playing the games.

Man.  Some of the comments about economics, politics, and other topics truly defy reason or common sense.

Let's see.  We've managed to compare this RMT thing to everything except other games at nearly every turn (with a few notable exceptions), including comparing the running of an online game to the running of a fast food joint.  We've suggested that we should change our entire government and/or economic system in order to limit the pricing of the products and/or salaries of the personel involved.  And as always, every contrary opinion or position has called into question a person's relative intelligence, education, and even moral philosophy, so that we can judge a person wholly by their attitude about this one, singular issue.

Congratulations, folks.  I think you've just about reached the proverbial gutter of debate here.  Please, do not allow me to stop you, though.  The sheer amount of hate and stupidity being flung like so much feces from one side of that ditch to the other has blotted out the sun, in true Battle of Thermopylae style.  It is becoming awe-inspiring the depths to which this whole thing has sunk, and the speed with which it got there.

If anyone else wants to sit a ways off and have some popcorn, I'm currently taking bets on how long it will take until someone makes a cliche reference to a certain historical facist organization, on either side of the argument.  Unless someone already did that, in which case we can see how long before out-and-out character attacks against posters start that require moderator action.

/popcorn

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.

Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
 

You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.

Keep up the great work! 

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

The problem with the article was that you are telling everyone who disagree with you to QQ... There are alot of good reasons to be upset about this and using stupid anologies is not a good way to argue with us.

Originally posted by Horusra

No the article was out of touch for the vocal minority that already for the most part hated WoW.  The majority agree and keep playing the games.

I didn't hate WoW. I wasn't playing anymore, because I am completely bored by it due to the difficulty in grouping. I had every intention of buying SC2, possibly D3, and had great interest in what their new MMO would be.

That's all over now.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.

Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
 

You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.

Keep up the great work! 

Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.

Originally posted by Papadam

The problem with the article was that you are telling everyone who disagree with you to QQ... There are alot of good reasons to be upset about this and using stupid anologies is not a good way to argue with us.

Indeed. One would expect a 'journalist' to use somewhat better rhetoric than that typical of a forum poster.

"QQ" indeed. Very childish from someone paid to write.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o

To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)

Originally posted by Jairoe03

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

 

You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o

To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)

Yeah, anyone who disagrees with an opinion on this site only does so because they want that writer's job. Any more pathetic justifications for this article?

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.

LOL If you even knew anything about the field, you'd know that "letters to the editor" did very little to the inner workings of the actual editing of the newspapers.  It took real journalists to weed out those other journalists because of shoddy research and such, not the people reading it.

I'd say your version of reality is as skewed as your failures in it.