Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Yamota

Noone said you have to play WoW or MMORPG either, that is not the point. The point is that MMORPG devs are now starting to introduce subscriptions and RMTs and the only ones getting screwed will be us customers.

 

And what is anyone going to do about it? 

Absolutely.  Nothing.

Or...stop playing MMOs?  Best of luck to ya.

The rantings of people that are not only addicted to a genre of games, but when not gaming, must sit on forums discussing those games...they know when they got someone hooked.  And if someone isn't subscribed, and complaining about it...why would Blizzard care about non-customers? 

Well I would say that posting on a major MMORPG site and stating your opinion that this is a bad thing and that you need to stay away from MMORPG that does it I would say is doing something.

Creating a discussion can be more powerful than people think...

And what I am trying to say is, for you current and future WoW customers, think about what you are doing. Are you sure you want to support a company that made 2 billion profit last year but still are pushing for RMTs on their already subscription based models?

At some moment you as a customer needs to say No. And by quit supporting those companies is certainly a good way of saying No.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by TacBoy

Who gets to define who needs more of what? Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to make the best profit possible.  Simply because they have made billions, doesn't remove that responsibility.  Those who use emotional appeals to "greed" are entirely missing the objective of business.

 

Well, more the shareholders of Activision lest we forget that it was after that buyout that we saw more and more revenue streams for Blizzard.

Shareholders don't have "needs" they have "wants" and those wants are "As Much As Possible" which is why people say... it will not stop at this. And it won't.

I think what bothers a lot of people is deep down the tone has changed from "We will provide an accessible product with good quality for a fair market price" to "we are popular and have seen that people have even more cash and will pay it and so we want it, open your wallets."

PS. Companies do not have an obligation to shareholders to make the best profit possible. They like to, yes, but the obligation is to provide the best long-term value by making the company the best it can be. My personal opinion is alienating a portion of your base that will give you constant revenue of $15 a month and then some in exchange for a short term revenue stream of smaller one time purchases may look good on the books intitially but is a poor move over the long term.

 

 

NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line.  Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world.  No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them.  The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

No shit Sherlock.  Yes Corporations have a responsibility  to make profits.  That's usually done by making a good game.  Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this.  First vanity pets, second epic gear.  It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck.  Until you realize that you have a playerbase  based on a subscription based principal.  Not a Sub + RMT.  So it's all fine and dandy now.  Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there.  So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live.  It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it,  will be lost.

Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not.  Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

Nonsense. Gaming sites, like MMORPG.COM, live on ads. But if noone visit their sites (that is us members and other non members) then they wont be getting any ads.

Think one step ahead please...

Originally posted by TsukieU

Look at the bright side, Jon accomplished what he set out to do.

 

Made a controversial article about a very touchy subject on a popular item, and BAM!  Instant site flood.

 

All the lovely traffic, good for business.

Yes, I noticed that myself. Fiendishly clever that Jon is

Originally posted by Wraithone

Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not.  Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.

Then our "hysterics" is working then is it not?

Originally posted by Wraithone

Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not.  Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.

Will you quit if they do, or will you defend that as well?

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Wraithone

Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not.  Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.

 

Then our "hysterics" is working then is it not?

At providing entertainment to the rest of us? Certainly.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by lisubab

I am swearing because people are talking about some changes in a pricing model of a game, in such proportions as if it is the end of MMOs or even end of gaming.  High morals, greed, everything thrown into the pot, when all that actually have occurred is just one more company offering to sell something that everyone agrees is purely cosmetic.

Not everyone agrees with that. Pets do affect certain achievements.

I wonder, if, I mean IF, Blizz announces sales of an epic sword next week, the same whinners might carry a machine gun and seek out Blizzard's headquarters and ...

...and you getting upset about it prevents that somehow?

You see, I can understand people getting upset about the 500-pound gorilla changing his behaviour. It scares us that the game we enjoyed is going to hell, and might take most if not all, other MMOs with it.

I don't understand why people who don't mind the RMTs are getting upset. Unless they have a financial interest in how these games perform.

First I do not love a game, I played it, its just another game, like basketball, or grilling at the backyard.  Its off time activities.

WoW is a product by a company, if they change their pricing I examine it and see if I need to shop for alternates.  Much like new cars on sale, or new pricing/discounts.  Fact is, most likely it does not affect me, and I will not worry about the world coming to an end.

I am just annoyed at the wisdom of the big doomsayer, magnifying trivial incidents to world war status.  Frankly, the moment I shut down this browser and head out, nothing discussed here will be left in my brain.  All forgotten, same for WoW.  The moment I log out of WoW or any game, its end of a session.  The moment I finish my bodybuilding I go for a shower, and its over.

Ciao.  Logging off browser.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Wraithone

Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not.  Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.

Will you quit if they do, or will you defend that as well?

If they start selling weapons and armor? Sure. But I suspect pigs will fly long before then.

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Then our "hysterics" is working then is it not?

Good point.

There was a big stink about the cash shop in CO. I know - I was in the middle of it.

The only game-affecting item for sale so far is the retcon (respec). If such a big stink hadn't been made, there might well be more such items for sale.

PR works both ways. Aion removed Game Guard from the release version (well, de-activated it, really). After a big stink on the boards about it.

Originally posted by lisubab

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

 

Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.

Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.

When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.

 Blizzard is maybe the ONLY  large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.

Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.

There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Yes, I noticed that myself. Fiendishly clever that Jon is

He could have gotten big traffic by trashing the RMT shop, too.

Originally posted by egotrip

Meanwhile back in the tallest office of the Blizzard Tower a man wearing a labcoat and holding a blue dossier 3 inches thick makes his way past the endless cubicles that make up the legal division on this multi-floored building avoiding eye contact with any of those that inhabit them and thus not allowing them to even raise a suspicion on the contents of the dossier.

Reaching the end of the hall he finds a two gigantic doors that seem to be made out of solid gold with the Blizzard logo on one of them and the dollar on the other; he's pouring sweat as he very reluctantly reaches reaches for the button of the intercom but before he actually manages to ring it  a buzzing sound is heard from it and a deep booming voice is heard from it:

"ENTER !!!!! I've been expecting you......"

He tries to find some saliva to swallow but his mouth is dry, fear grips his heart and every ounce of his survival instinct tells him to run away as fast as possible but it's too late the doors open slowly, strngely enough without the slightest sound that a door this size might make ; he enters the office reluctantly like an animal that first enters an alien and foreign to it habitat of some superior being. And there past the various nefarious objects in the office,behind the mahogany desk with ivory decoratings on it desk, standing against the window the dark shape of the man in charge, the Blizzard CEO.

"S-s-sir i b-br-brought you the......"

The man in the labcoat muttered but before he has a chance to finish the booming and commanding voice of the CEO says

"I know...leave it on the desk and BEGONE !!!!!"

The man in the labcoat does so and then leaves taking a couple of graceful bows as he quickly makes his way to the exit before the giant seemingly golden doors shut and trap him inside.

Th CEO approaches his office pours himself a glass of the finest 15 year old scotch in his cabinet below the desk and takes a sip,lights a cuban cigar ,picks up the report and after finishing reading it says to a seemingly empty room

"Hmmmm,experiment #13567 has successfully began in the MMO industry ; actually offering people nothing in exchange for something........

Lets see how the subjects react................." *lightning flashes*  *thunder cracks*

 

To be continued..........................................

Lol. The entire idea of an MMO is we pay money for basically nothing in return then fairly mindless entertainment....

Originally posted by Uronksur

Lol. The entire idea of an MMO is we pay money for basically nothing in return then fairly mindless entertainment....

Unlike a movie, or cable TV, or going to a football game.

MMOs provide more intellectual stimulation than any of those.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Wraithone

Yes, I noticed that myself. Fiendishly clever that Jon is

He could have gotten big traffic by trashing the RMT shop, too.

No doubt. One must be well rounded. ^^

If I thought change came out of the blue and had no precedents I would have the views of Mr Wood.

But I do not, and predicting the future based on the present and past is what humans do. If you think it will stop at fluff I hope you are right but I think you are being naïve.

Excellent article, and very well put. The cinema analagy was a great way of illustrating your point.

Look on the brightside, at least you don't have to go to Blizzcon to get your 'special' pet anymore :)

 I agree with the article.  Blizzard isn't really doing anything new.  Buying TCG cards to get an ingame mount is the same idea.  But I do think that the uproar will stem (if any was planned) any unnerving microtransaction ideas.  Champions Online is a game that completely turned me away because of that fact.  When I have to pay real money to respec my character in WoW, then I will worry. =P

There is no way I'm reading 13 pages, sorry... but...

For me this whole discussion revolves around the reasons. Why move to an itemshop scheme at all? I know This is not what Bliz are doing, but the article accuses everyone of over-reacting, but I just don't see why there is a need to change the sub scheme at all. The most commonly used excuse is "because it makes things even, some people playing 2 hours a wekk pay the same as those playing over 50", I'm sorry (and please excuse the quote - thanks Rob) 'but the level of naivety required to beleive this is rarely seen outside of 70's porn films'. I'm supposed to beleive that the board of a company gives 2 shits about being fair to players, who are already paying them? Yeah I can see that meeting now - CEO "The thing is I think we are chargeing these people too much, they are giving us just too much money, we should work out a way to reduce their payment".

Itemshops/malls are just a way to make more money out of the players, it works exactly the same way as actual shops, it relies on people being thick and not noticing how much they spend to fleece them out of more of their cash than a static monthly sub currently does.

Having said that then, why have the pet shop? In this case they are still going to be charging a sub so it's a straight out revenue stream, well Bliz is a company it's function is to generate income. But think about it, basically they are adding content in a game that poeple bought and pay a subscription to and then they are charging for that content. Does that seem right to anyone? Sorry, but imo pick one payment plan or another, don't have them all that's just taking the piss. And to say this content is just fluff is ignorance, 95% of the game is fluff, it's about character progression and escapism not how much money you want to dump into your hobby. It's a slippery slope and imo this is already way too far down it.

Having said all that I don't and never will play WoW, so my opinion is completely null and void I guess.

Giving part of their newly discovered way of milking the cow to charity is only an attempt to prevent the loss of goodwill, but comes accross as cynical and causes them to loose even more goodwill. For some this may even be an eye-opener. Blizzard is no saint.

Glad to see that wow makes mmorpg.com users blood boil. It shows that most of us are former wow-junkies (or current) that has a huge grudge against the game :) Comon guys, is this really so bad? 

 When I saw this article I had some thoughts and then I saw that there were 35 pages of comments in reply. I'm not about to sit through and read all 35 pages of it so forgive my ignorance if the points I'm about to cover have already been discussed.

Much of what I think goes right along with mrwolf who posted before me. You paid for the box and you're paying a subscription fee, the front of the box says "xx Million Copies sold" or something to that effect (I've lost my box since I bought it and the cardboard disc holders don't say it (I just checked)). Now, if you multiply that $15 per month per player by the number of years the game has been out, I'm sure the amount of revenue generated has been more than enough to pay the development team, maintain upkeep of all game servers and helped the development team to put together subsequent expansion packs many times over. So why the need to use an item mall as an excuse to give money to charity?

Are to think that Blizzard isn't making enough money to maintain itself, it's servers, it's staff and it's other projects off of sales of their products (which are quite numerous especially with Diablo III rolling out)? If they feel strongly about the charity, why not just place a tag on boxes that states that a purchase of this game and subsequent payments of already existing subscription fees will, in part, go to x charity? 

I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that they (Blizzard) might have a genuine care for the charity but they are going about it all the wrong way. In effect, by creating an item mall containing any items whatsoever (vanity or progression) was an excuse to generate more work for developers, requiring more money to pay them, for no real purpose at all. It also would make the player without the extra cash to spend look rather heartless if they could not summon one of these cuddly pals from the item mall that is supposed to be there for charity. In essence, it creates a smokescreen effect. "If you want money to go to this charity, you'll buy the pet, if you don't, then you don't care and YOUR friends will see that you don't care."

In my honest opinion, it seems to be more of an uncaring company trying to look innocent. 

Originally posted by Conavar

Excellent article, and very well put. The cinema analagy was a great way of illustrating your point.

Look on the brightside, at least you don't have to go to Blizzcon to get your 'special' pet anymore :)

Oh, I'm sure they will still have those, too.

HEy all, give Blizzard a break, after all, they only have 10-12 million subscribers.  They are getting low on cash.  I swear, have a heart for this poor company.  Give more!!

Originally posted by Ruyn

No shit Sherlock.  Yes Corporations have a responsibility  to make profits.  That's usually done by making a good game.  Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this.  First vanity pets, second epic gear.  It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck.  Until you realize that you have a playerbase  based on a subscription based principal.  Not a Sub + RMT.  So it's all fine and dandy now.  Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there.  So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live.  It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it,  will be lost.

QFE, im not an eloquent man but this puts my thoughts on the "vanity items" excuse quite nicely