Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Uronksur

Lol, or you can realize that it is Blizzard who is determining the business model, not you. So you can say "It shouldn't be there" all you want. That's just your opinion.

Nope. They're not getting my money anymore. They are losing. I don't just mean for WoW, either.

I'd like to point out that there's all those expansions you don't get paying the monthly fee either. I guess those shouldn't exist either.

You can start waving bye-bye to free content patches. They will be scaled back and you will see content offered for sale in some way. Keys to new dungeons, for example.

I'm sure they will be sly about it - like the charity PR move.

Wow! How long have you been able to see the future?! Thats really amazing man! Can you tell me what I'm going to have for lunch tommorow! Or can you help me win the lottery or somthing??!?!!?!?!? I mean, since you obviously know what Blizzard's going to do you can help me with the easy task of picking winning lottery numbers right!!!

Originally posted by Nesrie

These companies do not need millions of subscription fees ON TOP of retail priced games,remember most the mainstream games aren't giving their software away for free (initial release) OR the price of one month's "rent", to maintain their servers. What are we paying for if not  improvements and minor updates like this? This pay a full priced retail package + monthly subscription fee + expansion packs + microtrans and for some cases a premium for customer serivce is getting way out of hand. It's greed. There is a different between looking at the bottom line and going out of your way to see what you can get away with until someone says enough. Well I am saying it, enough. I don't pay microtrans on subscription fee based games. Period.

Good for you.  Take a stand if it's something you feel strongly about.  Don't pay for something you don't WANT....I get that.  However, to make the statement, "These companies do not NEED millions....etc, etc," is just silly.  Companies are in business TO MAKE MONEY.  I'm pretty willing to bet, that if anyone that was whining in these threads was the CEO of Blizzard....they'd do the same thing.  It's only annoying because it's someone else that's making all that money.

Blizzard has every right to make money with their products HOWEVER they choose.  And the consumer has every right to choose not to buy or TO buy, whatever they choose. That's how supply and demand works.  Simple economics.

See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it.  You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money.  BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things.  So where should the cut off line be?  How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......

Originally posted by Uronksur

Wow! How long have you been able to see the future?! Thats really amazing man! Can you tell me what I'm going to have for lunch tommorow! Or can you help me win the lottery or somthing??!?!!?!?!? I mean, since you obviously know what Blizzard's going to do you can help me with the easy task of picking winning lottery numbers right!!!

You're going to have to ask a lot more politely then that.

Actually an item shop arrangement has been going on in EQ2 for the last 3 odd years.

Funny how it only becomes news when Blizzard do it LOL.

As for the cost of the things, so what?

If people want something bad enough they don't care the cost, the ones who complain need to wake up to how the MMO world has changed over the last 8-9 years.

This is the wave of the future.

Pets are the ultimate vanity item after a fully stocked personal "virtual" residence and a mount.

Oops almost forgot about the Dressing Dolls faction, clothes or the "look" are very important to many mmoers.

And it is all part of the fun ;)

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by just2duh

 Save all your anger for when (or if) something truly game-breaking occurs.

 The outrage that a simple exclusive item (with semi-good intentions) is creating is absurd. All the rage seems to come from what everyone fears this 1 "cashshop" item might turn into, but surprize it hasn't happened yet and likely never will. So instead of quitting the game and ranting about what this action may lead to, wait and save your breath for when it actually happens!

 The WoW community never ceases to amaze me.. boycotting something that doesn't exist is truly amazing.

I'm going to be polite and simply ask why - since we have seen this slippery slope effect in other games - you think it won't happen in WoW?

 Who's to say it will or won't happen. It's just it hasn't happened yet, so all the insanity is kind of premature.

 Since everyone claims WoW to be the superb mmo, wouldn't it be safe to assume they are incapible of such a failure? ^sarcasm^

hmmm not that im saying this is right or wrong but if an mmo is enjoyable people will pay and play.

Look at most of the stuff that comes out single player now a days £40-£50 and about 8hrs gameplay altho its rich gameplay i enjoy mmos because i can play for hours and hours knowing im not going to just complete it and have nothing to do

If it means i pay £40 per month for a game so be it still alot more game time than my single player games.

Originally posted by girlgeek

See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it.  You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money.  BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things.  So where should the cut off line be?  How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......

 

Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.

Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.

Greed is not good.

Gold is not my God.

 It's not that you can buy pets.  I don't care.

I just think Blizzard's "crossed a terrible threshold," to use their own quote ...

Mark my words, they will be selling in-game gold for real money soon enough, and they will do it in the name of destroying the third-party gold-for-money market.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by girlgeek

See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it.  You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money.  BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things.  So where should the cut off line be?  How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......

 

Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.

Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.

Greed is not good.

Gold is not my God.

No, actually, we are not going to become socialist. You feel free to go ahead with that. Just realize that you hold a minority opinion.

And its nice that you won't stand for it. Quit. Of course, you'll be in a minority. There are always people, at EVERY PATCH who claim that something that has been implemented is game-breaking/betrayal and they are going to quit. I'm sure Blizzard has anticipated this. 

Greed is definitely good, and definitely God in a capitalist society. Welcome to the real world.

Look at the bright side, Jon accomplished what he set out to do.

Made a controversial article about a very touchy subject on a popular item, and BAM!  Instant site flood.

All the lovely traffic, good for business.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by girlgeek

See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it.  You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money.  BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things.  So where should the cut off line be?  How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......

 

Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.

Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.

Greed is not good.

Gold is not my God.

Actually, it IS perfectly fine with me. Where do you get the idea it isn't? I'm not the one that's throwing a fit in this thread...lol.  I think it's ABSOLUTELY fine to choose not to support a company that behaves in a way that is in opposition to what you feel is right.  HOWEVER....I'm also of the belief that the company has a right, within the law, to make money (however much they choose) for their products and to LEGALLY sell said product to consumers that DO want what they have to offer.  So MY QUESTION is:  Why is that not okay with YOU?

Frankly, I don't care what game people play or support.  They're GAMES.  In the grand scheme of things...they mean nothing.  Playing them or not playing them isn't going to change my life in any meaningful long-term way.  They're recreation....just like golf or crocheting, for that matter.

Greed is not good.  I agree.  But I don't feel it's my job to try to fix anyone else's "sin"  or moral shortcoming.  I have plenty to deal with just trying to keep mySELF on the "straight and narrow" to be bothered with policing anyone else.  People will buy what they WANT to buy, and they will NOT buy what they don't want.  It's really all fairly simple, and all of the hooplah over it...isn't going to make one iota difference.  If enough people leave WoW....WoW will go away.  And THAT....isn't a big deal.  On the other hand, if that doesn't happen....I don't find that a big deal in the grand scheme of REAL LIFE either.....

Originally posted by just2duh 

 

 Who's to say it will or won't happen. It's just it hasn't happened yet, so all the insanity is kind of premature.

The predictions aren't "insanity" if they turn out to be accurate. Calling them "insanity" is implying that they won't happen, so you are making predictions as well.

 

 Since everyone claims WoW to be the superb mmo, wouldn't it be safe to assume they are incapible of such a failure? ^sarcasm^

I would have said they were 'unlikely' to make such moves before they started all the account services for pay offers. Not  any of that should cost extra. Either it shouldn't be offered at all, or it should be included in the standard fee.

Originally posted by Thrawl

Your entire rant is ridiculous. If paying  10 bucks for a pet does not enhance your in game experience, than Blizzard would not be trying it and people would not be buying it. It doesn't matter if it's fluff or not. If you can't get it by paying your monthly fee and playing the game it shouldn't be there in the first place.

Now that is sweeping and royally wrong.

Blizz is trying to sell something for $10, no one in Blizz knows before the launch how many copies will be sold.  That is business.  You sell something, it would be hit or miss, or in between.  Blizz trying to sell it does not mean it must sell.  Or it must enhance .. what? what is in game experience.

Whether it enhance my or your ingame experience is something impossible to measure, what is ingame experience, what is the way to measure enhance.  Unless you use the circular reason, it enhanced experience so people buy, people buy b/c it enhance experience, that ppl buy proves it enhance business, circular round and round.

As for whether it should be there in the first place, that does not follow from your bunch of words before it.  Whether is sells or not, whether it is fluff or not, whether ppl have it from monthly fee or not, does not logically dictate whether Blizz should include it in game.  Should is a judgment.  Your judgment.  Blizz can and does have its own judgment.  Its their game, so their judgment prevails.

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?

PARENTS.

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.

Originally posted by girlgeek 

 

Actually, it IS perfectly fine with me. Where do you get the idea it isn't? I'm not the one that's throwing a fit in this thread...lol.  I think it's ABSOLUTELY fine to choose not to support a company that behaves in a way that is in opposition to what you feel is right.  HOWEVER....I'm also of the belief that the company has a right, within the law, to make money (however much they choose) for their products and to LEGALLY sell said product to consumers that DO want what they have to offer.  So MY QUESTION is:  Why is that not okay with YOU?

 

It is because they are being greedy, and greed is bad.

BTW, there are laws against profiteering in times of shortages, so no, greed isn't legally protected in all cases. Not that those laws apply to a gaming service, of course.

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by TacBoy

Who gets to define who needs more of what? Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to make the best profit possible.  Simply because they have made billions, doesn't remove that responsibility.  Those who use emotional appeals to "greed" are entirely missing the objective of business.

 

Well, more the shareholders of Activision lest we forget that it was after that buyout that we saw more and more revenue streams for Blizzard.

Shareholders don't have "needs" they have "wants" and those wants are "As Much As Possible" which is why people say... it will not stop at this. And it won't.

I think what bothers a lot of people is deep down the tone has changed from "We will provide an accessible product with good quality for a fair market price" to "we are popular and have seen that people have even more cash and will pay it and so we want it, open your wallets."

PS. Companies do not have an obligation to shareholders to make the best profit possible. They like to, yes, but the obligation is to provide the best long-term value by making the company the best it can be. My personal opinion is alienating a portion of your base that will give you constant revenue of $15 a month and then some in exchange for a short term revenue stream of smaller one time purchases may look good on the books intitially but is a poor move over the long term.

 

 

NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line.  Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world.  No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them.  The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

No shit Sherlock.  Yes Corporations have a responsibility  to make profits.  That's usually done by making a good game.  Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this.  First vanity pets, second epic gear.  It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck.  Until you realize that you have a playerbase  based on a subscription based principal.  Not a Sub + RMT.  So it's all fine and dandy now.  Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there.  So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live.  It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it,  will be lost.

Hmm so you suddenly conclude that WoW is not providing a good game, good conclusion.

If WoW does not provide good enough gameplay for its clients, and you believe that they can sell vanity pet in spite of this, you really need to get some help.

Big appeal to social revolution.  We are all responsible for supporting the biggest evil in the history of gaming development, and when this final evil boss pops up, we will have to send in a good team of 2 tanks, 4 healers and 25 DPS to try to kill him.  Oh great deal.  "hallow victory .. since the genre ... be lost".  Hmm you must be too deeply involved in fantasy and is bringing that into your RL.

Its a game, god damn it.  We will not lose our index finger when Blizz change its game.

Meanwhile back in the tallest office of the Blizzard Tower a man wearing a labcoat and holding a blue dossier 3 inches thick makes his way past the endless cubicles that make up the legal division on this multi-floored building avoiding eye contact with any of those that inhabit them and thus not allowing them to even raise a suspicion on the contents of the dossier.

Reaching the end of the hall he finds a two gigantic doors that seem to be made out of solid gold with the Blizzard logo on one of them and the dollar on the other; he's pouring sweat as he very reluctantly reaches reaches for the button of the intercom but before he actually manages to ring it  a buzzing sound is heard from it and a deep booming voice is heard from it:

"ENTER !!!!! I've been expecting you......"

He tries to find some saliva to swallow but his mouth is dry, fear grips his heart and every ounce of his survival instinct tells him to run away as fast as possible but it's too late the doors open slowly, strngely enough without the slightest sound that a door this size might make ; he enters the office reluctantly like an animal that first enters an alien and foreign to it habitat of some superior being. And there past the various nefarious objects in the office,behind the mahogany desk with ivory decoratings on it desk, standing against the window the dark shape of the man in charge, the Blizzard CEO.

"S-s-sir i b-br-brought you the......"

The man in the labcoat muttered but before he has a chance to finish the booming and commanding voice of the CEO says

"I know...leave it on the desk and BEGONE !!!!!"

The man in the labcoat does so and then leaves taking a couple of graceful bows as he quickly makes his way to the exit before the giant seemingly golden doors shut and trap him inside.

Th CEO approaches his office pours himself a glass of the finest 15 year old scotch in his cabinet below the desk and takes a sip,lights a cuban cigar ,picks up the report and after finishing reading it says to a seemingly empty room

"Hmmmm,experiment #13567 has successfully began in the MMO industry ; actually offering people nothing in exchange for something........

Lets see how the subjects react................." *lightning flashes*  *thunder cracks*

To be continued..........................................

Originally posted by lisubab

Its a game, god damn it.  We will not lose our index finger when Blizz change its game.

If it's just a game, why are you swearing?

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience. 
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people.  Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet.  As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this.  You should know this.  What share of the sub base care about the pets, what share of the sub base will buy?  Do you know for a fact?  Ok, granted someone will buy it.  What does that have to do with your gaming, or mine?  Nothing.  Your are just nosybody.

But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?  Who?  If you pay, you pay, if you do not pay, why do you care who pays for THEIR OWN pet?

PARENTS.  Proof?

Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.  Proof?

Yeah, start of a slippery slope here.  I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.  What else are you worried about.  Would you be worried about Blizz buying the whole US and nominating its own CEO to be the next president?

Security Token sales,pet sales...I think "IF" Blizzard was sincere about helping a charity and not some great PR move,they could have easily donated the ENTIRE cost to charity.If this was the case,i would say 50% it it was a sincere move and only 50% PR lol.Not the case,so there has to be eyebrows raised.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

I was being polite.  But yeah, I figured out where his interests were when MMORPG.com listed Travian and Evony.  :-(

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by lisubab

Its a game, god damn it.  We will not lose our index finger when Blizz change its game.

If it's just a game, why are you swearing?

I am swearing because people are talking about some changes in a pricing model of a game, in such proportions as if it is the end of MMOs or even end of gaming.  High morals, greed, everything thrown into the pot, when all that actually have occurred is just one more company offering to sell something that everyone agrees is purely cosmetic.

I wonder, if, I mean IF, Blizz announces sales of an epic sword next week, the same whinners might carry a machine gun and seek out Blizzard's headquarters and ...

Originally posted by Wizardry

Security Token sales,pet sales...I think "IF" Blizzard was sincere about helping a charity and not some great PR move,they could have easily donated the ENTIRE cost to charity.If this was the case,i would say 50% it it was a sincere move and only 50% PR lol.Not the case,so there has to be eyebrows raised.

Another sweeping personal judgment.

So by your argument, anyone thinking of donating to any charity should not stop at 50% of this measure or that.  What should they do, either no donation or 100%.

Charity is one consideration, business is another, shareholder interest vs clients vs charity vs competition vs ....  Everything is a compromise.  Giving everything to charity?  What will the shareholders say?

If you do not know the art of compromise, oh well ... be an extremist.  Except that, extremist never work well, except during extreme moments.  Blizzard charging $10 for a cosmetic pet is not yet world war 3.

Originally posted by lisubab

I am swearing because people are talking about some changes in a pricing model of a game, in such proportions as if it is the end of MMOs or even end of gaming.  High morals, greed, everything thrown into the pot, when all that actually have occurred is just one more company offering to sell something that everyone agrees is purely cosmetic.

Not everyone agrees with that. Pets do affect certain achievements.

I wonder, if, I mean IF, Blizz announces sales of an epic sword next week, the same whinners might carry a machine gun and seek out Blizzard's headquarters and ...

...and you getting upset about it prevents that somehow?

You see, I can understand people getting upset about the 500-pound gorilla changing his behaviour. It scares us that the game we enjoyed is going to hell, and might take most if not all, other MMOs with it.

I don't understand why people who don't mind the RMTs are getting upset. Unless they have a financial interest in how these games perform.