Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

I don't think I'm dumb but this reads like one of those posts where you are trying to sound super smart but not really saying anything.....

Maybe you're not dumb but you're clearly can't be too sharp if you think I'm not saying anything. Maybe my normal intelligence seems like super intelligence to you because its so far beyond you, or did you deliberately miss my point just to have an transparently pointless excuse to attack me?

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

With the exception of Ultima Online, I can't really think of a game where a player just starting out can make their way to or through almost every area of the map.  This is just the nature of games where character advancement is made through levelling.

 If you're playing LoTRO, and you're not doing the storyline quests, I think you should really question WHY you are playing LoTRO given how central the story is to the whole experience. "phat lewt" should not be something that need to bait you with. 

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

 

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Yes I know that I dont need to do them solo. But that is not the problem you see. I for one plays mmo becuse I want to team up and when we have a game that offers a solo or group solution we all know what option most guys will pick.

And my experince with pugs is diffrent than yours. The friends Ive found in the game is by doing random stuff in pugs and then Ive teamed up with the same players later on in the game and slowly we have gotten to know each other as players. And thats mostly becuse Im fun to play with and most pugs do need a kind healer. So our game experince is diffrent and its fun to see that becuse then you can play the game with two diffrent mind sets- we have options in the game. 

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

 With the exception of Ultima Online, I can't really think of a game where a player just starting out can make their way to or through almost every area of the map.  This is just the nature of games where character advancement is made through levelling.

I don't mean to say you should be able to make your way through the whole map on your own. Clearly a low level char should get eaten alive in Moria. But in LoTRO you couldn't even be escorted through. The areas are locked out to lower levels. And if that trend continues you have a stratification of the playerbase.The difference between LoTRO and other games is that in LoTRO we weren't given a world map that's been added onto with new stuff. We were given a small part of a whole map that most are probably familiar with. The potential problem (assuming things contintue the way they have) is that later areas due to lore that are probably a hell of a lot more awesome than Bree, but are (presumably) non-combat community centers, for example, Gondor are going to be shut out for a significant % of the playerbase due to level restrictions. And that seems a shame. To me at least.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Thillian

 You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth?
 

 

I get the impression that you find it absurd that a mage would ride a goat. This has me curious - for the sake of understanding your reality - what do mages ride in your world? The reason I ask is because if I saw a mage riding past me on the street I probably wouldn't be saying, "That's odd. That mage was on a goat," I'd be saying "Holy shit, I just saw a fucking wizard!"

The fact that he's a wizard wouldn't probably be as obvious as the other fact, that well someone is riding a goat at 2pm on a street. So my first thought would definetly be, wow there's a lunatic riding a goat, which makes weird gestures with his fingers.

Originally posted by pb1285n

I'm sorry but for most of you Turbine can do no wrong. Giving people options isn't always a good idea. LOTRO may as well be a single player game with some online capabilities because that is all it will be if they allow players to solo through most of it.

They may as well admit defeat and say they have no solution to these problems. Who's going to bother looking for a group when you can just do it on your own?

I suspect that if they did what you might suggest, I will have seen them to do great wrong.

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

Originally posted by Phry

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

This is ONLY for the book quests.

If LOTRO was a single player offline game, it would be the greatest single player RPG of all time.

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Drockarius

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

 

You know, just because something is soloable doesn't mean you have to do it solo.  Just find some friends and do it as a group.  Or watch for people who are wanting a group for quests you've already done and help them.  Not everyone in the group has to have the quest, so if you're just looking for group activity then it should be easy to find.  I've found that most of my lotro friendships have come not from getting into a PUG for whatever group quest I happen to be on, but from questing with the same people over a long period of time.

Yes I know that I dont need to do them solo. But that is not the problem you see. I for one plays mmo becuse I want to team up and when we have a game that offers a solo or group solution we all know what option most guys will pick.

And my experince with pugs is diffrent than yours. The friends Ive found in the game is by doing random stuff in pugs and then Ive teamed up with the same players later on in the game and slowly we have gotten to know each other as players. And thats mostly becuse Im fun to play with and most pugs do need a kind healer. So our game experince is diffrent and its fun to see that becuse then you can play the game with two diffrent mind sets- we have options in the game. 

well this is interesting - i see only 2 possibilities:

either most (or at least really significent portion) of the (particular) mmorpg players feel this way, then i dont understand, how you could have problem finding group, when most (or at least really significent portion) of the players also prefer to group over playing solo

or

most (or at least really significent portion) of the (particular) mmorpg players enjoy playing solo (and it has not to be all the time) and in that case you are minority which is trying to FORCE their play style on majority of players

as for myself - i am really glad for this - i stopped playing lotro few months after it got out since i in those days enjoyed playing other games more and didnt have time to play also lotro. i came back like half a year back and i had/still have BIG problems to find groups for epic book quests (and also for my champion class quest in moria :( ).

I think that story quests and class quests should be playable solo, so anyone can enjoy them.

On the other hand, some people on MyLotro made (in discussion under Orion's blogpost) interesting point that I also agree with - middleearth and lotr always was about friendship, cooperation and "divided we fall" feeling. therefore part of the story quests should be group ones - but if you cannt (or simply dont want to) get group, you should have option to run these quests with some NPC group. (which of course would mean much more developement work, but maybe we will once get this option instead of heroic buff)

Originally posted by ghettobooste

If LOTRO was a single player offline game, it would be the greatest single player RPG of all time.

It would be crap, just like any single player game that tries to use MMO mechanics. However, it would be slightly better, as it has a story. That parts true.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Phry

i did try playing LOTRO several months ago, and it really is a good game, in the end though, i did leave because finding groups, as a new player, was just too frustrating. the solo option, is perhaps one answer to this problem, but its not one that i would find acceptable. i dont choose to play a mmo, to end up playing what amounts to being a single player game, grouping is what makes a game fun, lack of it quickly becomes boring. i really think a mentoring option would have been a more realistic solution.

 

This is ONLY for the book quests.

the lack of grouping at the admittedly low level i was, was general, it meant i couldnt progress through the 'books' either. i dont find solo grinding stuff fun either funnily enough, whether its the book quests or general adventuring outside of the instances.

Great idea. One of my biggest pet peeves that I had with this game is never being able to do most story quests because I could never find a party who wanted to do them. No one cared enough to even help or group up.

I am very happy to read this. I am a complete soloer. I have made it through level 38 so far and parts of the epic but it will be great to do more of it! Thank you Turbine.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Thillian

 You've got mages riding goats all over the Middle Earth?
 

 

I get the impression that you find it absurd that a mage would ride a goat. This has me curious - for the sake of understanding your reality - what do mages ride in your world? The reason I ask is because if I saw a mage riding past me on the street I probably wouldn't be saying, "That's odd. That mage was on a goat," I'd be saying "Holy shit, I just saw a fucking wizard!"

 

The fact that he's a wizard wouldn't probably be as obvious as the other fact, that well someone is riding a goat at 2pm on a street. So my first thought would definetly be, wow there's a lunatic riding a goat, which makes weird gestures with his fingers.

Good point.

Honestly, I dislike this solution for a great many reasons.

I would *much* rather they changed two things:

1. If you've done the story chapter on any character, you are credited it for *all* characters (Not exp and items, but in terms of deeds and unlocks - having to do the "story" over and over on multiple characters just sucks)

2a. Made all the old content (pre-moria), available from say a storyteller series in Bree-->Rivendell/Evendim that let you play through all the old encounters in flashback mode to get storyline/deed credit for them.

or!

2b. made all the old group story credit accessible from storytellers in rivendell/moria/lothlorien and updated the "assist" system so you could earn the same tokens dropping from the skirmish or 60th+ dungeon system for helping others complete them.