I blame all the people who steal games of off torrents, companies gotta recoup that money some how.

stupid ignorant thieves ruining things for everyone.

Originally posted by Geriden

 I gotta agree at this stage the mmo genre has turned sour complete lack of regulation in standards is to blame in my opinion. Releasing half ass unfinished buggy game's , Terrible customer service (looking at you funcom / Ncsoft) Now this monthly fee + RMT its a total farce i stopped playing mmo's all together now it's a waste of money the companies have gotten so greedy and dishonest and seem to think they have the right to rip us off sick of it and im done it i hope the genre die's because it deserve's to. 

Agreed. No regulation means they can do whatever they want and get away with it if people buy into the idea. People need to remember that as customers they have the final say. If they do not want the sub+rmt then boycott it. DO NOT buy their games and canel their subscriptions to send a message across to developers. We are not walking ATM machines to feed devlopers pockets 24/7.

Have you ever considered visiting a doctor about your OCD?  Seriously, you people make me laugh.  It's really not that big of a deal.

However, look at things on the bright side.  If every mmo starts using rmt, then there *will* be a market segment (admittedly small, but a decent sized segment none the less) of people looking for a "pure" game.  You might actually get a developer interested in making a game for your segment. 

I think the moral of this thread is Change is Automatically Evil and that we should reject it out of hand rather than carefully weighing the pros and cons of what may merely be a different style of paying for services rendered.

Thank you heremypet, for being such a guiding light to us all.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Geriden

 I gotta agree at this stage the mmo genre has turned sour complete lack of regulation in standards is to blame in my opinion. Releasing half ass unfinished buggy game's , Terrible customer service (looking at you funcom / Ncsoft) Now this monthly fee + RMT its a total farce i stopped playing mmo's all together now it's a waste of money the companies have gotten so greedy and dishonest and seem to think they have the right to rip us off sick of it and im done it i hope the genre die's because it deserve's to. 

 

Agreed. No regulation means they can do whatever they want and get away with it if people buy into the idea. People need to remember that as customers they have the final say. If they do not want the sub+rmt then boycott it. DO NOT buy their games and canel their subscriptions to send a message across to developers. We are not walking ATM machines to feed devlopers pockets 24/7.

Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.  :)  The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1)  successful and 2) rmt infested.  In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game.  The numbers simply don't lie.  You guys against rmt are an extreme minority.  When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket.  All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills.  Sorry.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

 

Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.  :)  The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1)  successful and 2) rmt infested.  In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game.  The numbers simply don't lie.  You guys against rmt are an extreme minority.  When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket.  All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills.  Sorry.

Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.

Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.

Originally posted by TheHatter

Originally posted by zaxxon23

 

Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.  :)  The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1)  successful and 2) rmt infested.  In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game.  The numbers simply don't lie.  You guys against rmt are an extreme minority.  When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket.  All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills.  Sorry.

 

Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.

 

Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.

I'm talking RMT in general.  Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions.  If you've played any popular NA mmo (WoW, EQ, SWG, etc), you have played a rmt game.  More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.

Eve is not "pure" rmt.  Even when it's clear you relate rmt to f2p microtransaction mmos, eve isn't even remotely close to those kinds of games.  Heck, it's so far off as to be shameful to include eve in the same breath as those f2ps.

Originally posted by TheHatter

Originally posted by zaxxon23

 

Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.  :)  The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1)  successful and 2) rmt infested.  In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game.  The numbers simply don't lie.  You guys against rmt are an extreme minority.  When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket.  All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills.  Sorry.

 

Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.

 

Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.

EVE is a great example of subjective RMT. IMO it isn't selling virtual stuff as it is the virtual form of a monthly subscription - 30 days of game time, that can be traded in-game, while it crosses the line for many. It's kind of interesting though as that game design gives huge (aka efficient) benefits for people playing more than account.

My subjective line gets crossed at the moment in-game items get directly sold on some kind of virtual store that uses a currency based on real money - while that same item could pretty much be available via in-game means if that store never existed, and that includes vanity stuff.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

 

I'm talking RMT in general.  Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions.  If you've played any popular NA mmo, you have played a rmt game.  More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.

Ahhhh. Ok. I see what you're saying. You're right, but it's really something different than if the game itself supports RMT and the benefits really help out a character.

A farmer needs to put up an investment to get the items they use for RMT, but on the other hand a game itself is able to create said items out of thin air.

Please, this RMT QQ only feeds Robert Kotick's insatiable hunger.
 

Coming from a developer standpoint, of which I am.

This only opens the market to a wider audience of players, some who may have hesitated due to subscription fees on top of a box fee. The point of a company is to make as much as money as possible, if they are product based, they do this by making their product accessible to the largest market possible. Currently, for MMO players it is for those who will pay $15 a month, which is a very small portion of the gaming community to virtually every PC and some lucky XBOX/PS3 players.

Look at the population of Korea, a very large percentage of the population plays video games. Not only that, but they do this with ONLY micro-transactions clearly a sign that it works and that the gaming industry over their is flourishing. I mention Korea they more technologically advanced in terms of internet (1gb/s by 2012) - 14 out of 15 million inhabitants have access to internet in their homes . Internet gaming is huge, there are approximately 20,000 internet cafes in South Korea, which is slightly larger than the state of Indiana.

Don't judge the quality of RMT games from Korea to those of the future that emerge from the West. Games are tailored fort he population of which they are created for. In many cases we see Korean games localized to English for Western audience. While many players on the MMORPG.com forums may not enjoy them or think they are lacking is a point of perspective that is unnecessary. These games are clearly profitable enough for them to continue localizing and if they are profitable, clearly people are playing them and buying items or other services.

So whether you like it or not RMT will inevitably become the future, CCP sees it for Dust514 (and already has a form of it in EVE), Blizzard sees it (already has some too), BioWare has some for Dragon Age: Origins, ArenaNet has some for GuildWars. Don't you make yourself look stupid for thinking otherwise.

Originally posted by Axehilt

I think the moral of this thread is Change is Automatically Evil and that we should reject it out of hand rather than carefully weighing the pros and cons of what may merely be a different style of paying for services rendered.

Thank you heremypet, for being such a guiding light to us all.

Great. Would you like any salt with your conclusions?

And just what are these supposed "services rendered" anyway?  I didn't think winning in video game was a service that some company provided.  No, I'm pretty sure that winning in a video game is something the player does. 

"I don't win the pet I buy it, because winning is now a service rendered". LMFAO  You can't possibly be serious.

The worst part about RMT are the people who support it, you really gotta wonder if these people work for the game companies... 

But no that's not it.. you know what?  I am now fully convinced that the MMORPG genre is home to biggest group of loser gamers in existence!  People who suck at games so badly they can't amount to jack SQUAT unless they hop on an MMO and start grinding!!  HAHA!! That's it isn't it??!?!   LOL!!  How's that for salt?!! HAHAHAH!!!!!

"OH! But grinding was taking too long! now even that was too hard!  Now we want to win with even less and less effort!" 

"Now It's ultra easy, but I can't win STILL!!   I need to buy my wins from EBAY!" 

"But now that I've spent so much money WINNING AT VIDEO GAMES ON EBAY big companies caught the sent of all that money!"

"Now with RMT I can finally win at games again! YAY!!!"  Pathetic.  There is no excuse, just pathetic.

Goodbye and good riddance!!  You losers can have the genre!! ENJOY WINNING WITH YOUR CREDIT CARDS!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!  FREAKING LOSERS!!!

- Heremypet

I'm riding with you for the most part it will happen but I'm going to always have a problem with a game that expects both a monthly sub and RMT.  Which also kind of invalidates your first point about how RMT will make the games more accessible because some don't want to pay the monthly fee because most of these games are still charging a monthly fee on top of the RMT.  I have no problem with a company trying to build up it's bottom line but I won't contribute to this particular system as long as they are charging a monthly I'm not playing a game that includes RMT's sure I'll give a game I want to play a shot but I won't go past say the first month.

In the last couple of years I've been forced out of several games I've played from launch, namely EQ2 and Vanguard thanks to Cash Shops or RMT. I've also beta tested but then not bothered even purchasing the likes of Champions Online (Cash Shop). I'll admit that some games I just cancelled because they were rubbish: Warhammer, AoC, Aion. And now with WoW and TOR going Microtransaction/RMT, well it's game over man, game over.

I used to have 3 or 4 active subs going at once to various games, I'm now down to just a single subscription to Fallen Earth and I think this will be my last MMO after playing this genre since the days of EQ and UO :(

Maybe it's an age thing, as an older gamer I resent the whole Microtransaction/RMT/Item store model, especially the current trend for companies to charge in the west for box+sub+mt. I know younger people are more used to this kind of thing thanks to the likes of iPhones etc, and they seem to embrace it more readily. Heck, maybe there isn't a place for old codgers like me who just want a simple monthly subscription for access to everything in a game. But then having said that, I have no problem paying for new songs on Guitar hero, or addon packs for Fallout 3, and I know some people see these as very similar but they are not imho, these are single player games with no monthly sub and I see these addons as adding aditional content above the already ample content that was provided with the core game.

So I'm going back to playing single player RPG's, probably starting with Dragon Age Origins. At least that way I'm not paying a monthly fee ontop of any DLC I may decide to purchase. Do I hope the MMO genre dies ? nope, but it is turning into something I no longer get enjoyment from thanks to these new fangled finance models so I guess the time is fast approaching to bid farewell to the genre and let the new iStuff generation have at it :(
 

lol deleted account.  Way to make a stand!!

Funny thing is he actually has some good points, but he correlates them incorrectly.  Just because a mmo is easy doesn't mean it uses rmt, and just because a mmo allows rmt doesn't mean it's easy.   There is a balance, but radicals like him just can't see it.

Great mmos *will* be made again, and odds are they will *not* support rmt like a f2p game.  But I personally expect that at some point we will get a great mmo that supports player to player rmt.  IMO, that game will be the next big thing. 

Originally posted by markt50

In the last couple of years I've been forced out of several games I've played from launch, namely EQ2 and Vanguard thanks to Cash Shops or RMT. I've also beta tested but then not bothered even purchasing the likes of Champions Online (Cash Shop). I'll admit that some games I just cancelled because they were rubbish: Warhammer, AoC, Aion. And now with WoW and TOR going Microtransaction/RMT, well it's game over man, game over.

I used to have 3 or 4 active subs going at once to various games, I'm now down to just a single subscription to Fallen Earth and I think this will be my last MMO after playing this genre since the days of EQ and UO :(

Maybe it's an age thing, as an older gamer I resent the whole Microtransaction/RMT/Item store model, especially the current trend for companies to charge in the west for box+sub+mt. I know younger people are more used to this kind of thing thanks to the likes of iPhones etc, and they seem to embrace it more readily. Heck, maybe there isn't a place for old codgers like me who just want a simple monthly subscription for access to everything in a game. But then having said that, I have no problem paying for new songs on Guitar hero, or addon packs for Fallout 3, and I know some people see these as very similar but they are not imho, these are single player games with no monthly sub and I see these addons as adding aditional content above the already ample content that was provided with the core game.

So I'm going back to playing single player RPG's, probably starting with Dragon Age Origins. At least that way I'm not paying a monthly fee ontop of any DLC I may decide to purchase. Do I hope the MMO genre dies ? nope, but it is turning into something I no longer get enjoyment from thanks to these new fangled finance models so I guess the time is fast approaching to bid farewell to the genre and let the new iStuff generation have at it :(
 

Holy crap, from start to finish my thoughts exactly. I even left the same exact games for the same exact reasons, and playing fallen earth and am about to start Dragon Age. I was also looking forward to TOR but not after learning about microtransactions.

Wow...he deleted his account. We'll always remember you heremypet.

I guess it's probably because I'm still new to MMOs that I'm still getting a lot of enjoyment from them. I completely and utterly disagree that the MMO genre needs to die, because there are still people who do get enjoyment out of it, like me for example. If you don't like it, then you don't have to follow the genre. And that, I think is extremely fair.

I'm with the OP.   MMOGs are dead now..  I'm out.

Originally posted by Deleted User

I'm with the OP.   MMOGs are dead now..  I'm out.

Dead? Really? 20 million + is dead?
 

I would be a hypocirit to say I didn't state my gripes about this newest news to the MMO masses. However I must say I find it freaking hilarious it's being taken this far. I've seen multiple long time users take the dive and erase their presense here. Over two stupid looking pets and peoples opinions of them lol. It sucks that people are losing interest in long term hobbies, I still can't help but getting a bit of a chuckle out of this.Sorry if that seems cruel.