Originally posted by Astralglide

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Kyleran 

 

 

You act like MMORPGs require some sort of time investment to get to the top, that is wrong.  Sure, there are initial grinds in EQ, and WoW.  But once you are at the end, you don't spend 12-14 hours a day raiding.  

 More modern MMO's like WOW are pretty easy these days, but it took me 16 days played to get my first Pally to 60.  Later on I got better and got my last character to 60 in 6 days played. 

But then there was the raiding. I used to assemble for raids at 8:00 pm and they would end around midnight on a good night (vanilla wow days) and sometimes at 1 or 2 (or even later if world dragons started spawning)

But games like Lineage 2....i defy you back when it first to come out to reach level 74 w/o a play time like I stated in anything under a year.  And it makes a difference in a PVP game like L2.... when I left I was level 52 after 6 months played, and I was totally destroyed by the level 70's (no 74' s back then) in a caslte siege.  I calculated my rate of advaancment and figured out it was going to take approximately another year to reach 70.  No thanks, not what I was looking for, and I went and played WOW. ( I regret that decision now)

 

 @Ginkeq  you can and do spend 12-14 hours raiding. Some of the new raids (UL25, TOC25) can take forever. Not to mention if your guild is still learning the strats and gearing out (like ours is) All MMO's take a time investment. EvE is no different. Sure, you can queue all your skills for a week and log off, but who the hell wants to do that? You can also log into WoW, run the H daily for 30 minutes, get your badges and honor and log off, but again, not everybody does that. Its not that EVE sucks because you have the option of being totally casual, its that its different than EQ or WoW and it fits the play style of a certain community. I though EVE was interesting when I checked it out, but ultimately not for me.

 

 

I would not use the word "sux" but the PROBLEM of EVE is that it does not accommodate many play styles, unlike WOW. If you like PvE and you want good combat mechanics from the start, you are out of luck.

Combat in WOW is much much more interesting, and more depth than EVE in the early game, and in PvE. I tested Eve for 21 days and I never have to do much more than get into range and firing missiles. By day 21, you will have many different abilities in WOW, and the enemies have varying abilities that you have to be careful with, and you have to be careful of how you pull your mobs.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I would not use the word "sux" but the PROBLEM of EVE is that it does not accommodate many play styles, unlike WOW. If you like PvE and you want good combat mechanics from the start, you are out of luck.

Combat in WOW is much much more interesting, and more depth than EVE in the early game, and in PvE. I tested Eve for 21 days and I never have to do much more than get into range and firing missiles. By day 21, you will have many different abilities in WOW, and the enemies have varying abilities that you have to be careful with, and you have to be careful of how you pull your mobs.

On the account of PvE combat, you are right. WoW have more valid play styles than EvE here. This is mostly be course the AI sucks (though the new AI for the Sleeper race is huge improvement) and many combat options really dont have the great effect on PvE combat.

If you said the same of PvP I would not agree. EvE shines in the PvP department. Here the full range of weapons and modules come into play and opens up for depths that EvE's PvE side simply dont have.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 you know what? to hell with it.

5th time is the charm. maybe.

I'm gonna set EVE's client to download while I am at work. then I'm gonna go for the 14-day trial..again(unless there is a larger trial out there). *If* my connection can handle it (running Mobile Broadband for now, I'll be upgrading to Cable Modem within the next few months)

and this time, rather than just jumping in and flying around aimlessly looking for fun stuff to do. I'm gonna ask for some help. 

Obviously There is fun somewhere in EVE, and I've just been unable to find it. So I'm gonna ask you guys to do something that generally isn't done in this forum. Rather than telling me I am not intelligent enough and writing me off as a "kiddie" or whatever, do this:

Meet me ingame. Show me where the fun is. Don't "hold my hand", give me isk, or anything like that, but just show me some examples of what is so awesome and great about this game. give me an impromtu tour of cool shit. hell, just talk to me about it, and we'll take it from there. Tell (and show) me what I've been doing wrong that has led to me not enjoying the game.

I'll come back to this thread when I get home, to see if anyone is willing to take me up on this, and to tell you what race I decided to create, and my name, and so forth.

and then at the end of my 14 days, I'll come back to this thread, and give my updated thoughts on the game after finally "doing it right".

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, if you cannot get into the game why not simply try some of the other SciFi mmo, some of these are coming out early next year too. You aren't the only one to find EvE hard to get into, remember the game failed to catch on in China, so clearly it does not appeal to everyone.

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I would not use the word "sux" but the PROBLEM of EVE is that it does not accommodate many play styles, unlike WOW. If you like PvE and you want good combat mechanics from the start, you are out of luck.

Combat in WOW is much much more interesting, and more depth than EVE in the early game, and in PvE. I tested Eve for 21 days and I never have to do much more than get into range and firing missiles. By day 21, you will have many different abilities in WOW, and the enemies have varying abilities that you have to be careful with, and you have to be careful of how you pull your mobs.

 

On the account of PvE combat, you are right. WoW have more valid play styles than EvE here. This is mostly be course the AI sucks (though the new AI for the Sleeper race is huge improvement) and many combat options really dont have the great effect on PvE combat.

If you said the same of PvP I would not agree. EvE shines in the PvP department. Here the full range of weapons and modules come into play and opens up for depths that EvE's PvE side simply dont have.

Nope. I didn't NOT say that for Eve PvP. The primary reason is that i haven't done any PvP during my trial (and PvP is not my focus anyway).

Actually I bet good AI is not that difficult to code (how hard it is to ignore the threat list, and target Mage/healers first?) but AI in MMOs are intentionally dumbed down to enable more fun combat. Plus a lot of scripting can/should be used.

It is a shame there is no good PvE space game Hopefully that will change soon with BP, JGE & STO.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Actually I bet good AI is not that difficult to code (how hard it is to ignore the threat list, and target Mage/healers first?) but AI in MMOs are intentionally dumbed down to enable more fun combat. Plus a lot of scripting can/should be used.

It is a shame there is no good PvE space game Hopefully that will change soon with BP, JGE & STO.

I will say the sleepers are a whole new cup of tea.

The AI isn't up to roaming gangs and smacktalk yet but the sleepers will spank you if you don't think through your fleet, fitting, and tactics.

The Capital instant response vaporization squad is a nice touch too...

EvE far from sucks,

1. it has 300k subs.

2. It has a decent PvP focus.

3. It is a form of sandbox game.

4. It has a large core loyal fanbase.

True its PvE is lacking compared to mainstream MMO,s such as WoW or EQ, but this hardly makes it a game that sucks.

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

If this is the case he should probably win some kind of award : )

The "Forum Primary Award for Massive Eve Fanboy Aggro"

Yeah, I said it.  I'm an Eve Fanboy and I don't give a damn who knows it...

But its not 1 person.  Its MOST people who try Eve think it sucks.  Maybe not sucks exactly.  They just think its boring.  You REALLY think MOST people who try it STAY past the trial?  C'mon, get real?  However, compare it with say, WOW.  Most people who try WOW probably do stick around for a little while.  Numbers don't lie.   Of course you can say numbers don't mean anything.  But Eve is a boring game for most people and it has NOTHING to do with ones intelligence.

More peoples play checkers than chess too.  I suppose you think its because checkers is so amazing and chess is so dull.

Originally posted by comerb

But its not 1 person.  Its MOST people who try Eve think it sucks.  Maybe not sucks exactly.  They just think its boring.  You REALLY think MOST people who try it STAY past the trial?  C'mon, get real?  However, compare it with say, WOW.  Most people who try WOW probably do stick around for a little while.  Numbers don't lie.   Of course you can say numbers don't mean anything.  But Eve is a boring game for most people and it has NOTHING to do with ones intelligence.

 

More peoples play checkers than chess too.  I suppose you think its because checkers is so amazing and chess is so dull.

(misquoted but I hope the point is understood)

Well, most people don't play MMOs because they find it boring. Does that mean they suck?

Anyway the game while may not have an explosive population growth like WoW had (not really possible to mention a second example of that explosive growth), it has faced a constant playerbase growth all over these years and has a pretty solid sub number, probably the biggest sandbox of the genre.

It's all about demand, and if EVE continues to grow and generate more money than before, it certainly means it does not suck economically, and that's all it needs to stay alive and fuel this thread... because apparently if a game sucks for some it means it needs to die.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

If this is the case he should probably win some kind of award : )

The "Forum Primary Award for Massive Eve Fanboy Aggro"

 

Yeah, I said it.  I'm an Eve Fanboy and I don't give a damn who knows it...

You guys wish this was some sort of troll..

The problem with EVE specifically is their skill system.  Without it their game wouldn't be complete shit.  

It's funny how every response to my complaints about the skill system are:

Oh it only adds versatility, makes your character more general, etc.  It's not useful at all to have 5-10 years worth of skill investments.  The fact is, that you will never catch up to other players in EVE, because CCP are morons who made an MMORPG that has nothing to do with investing effort into your character.

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

And who wants to collect ISK all day on meaningless missions that are not challenging at all?  EVE's whole system would be like if you made people in WoW repeat those low level quests for several months straight.  Go kill 5 wild boars.. Go kill 5 orcs, etc.  Imagine that being all there is to do in a game, just to collect ISK on meaningless missions that have NO CHALLENGE.

Or you can always make ISK while being AFK through mining..

So the person who plays 5 minutes a week won't have as much ISK, but they will be able to fly better ships once they are playing again, and will have a better character than someone who invested a lot of time at once.

In any case, they could just buy the ISK with real money, which is fine in EVE because it's a game for lazy players so clearly buying ISK online is fine and so is having a skill system that works while offline.

Their game is just slanted to people who don't want to invest any time into MMORPGs.  And the sad thing is you can't catch up to these players.  They might be total newbs and your character will never be as good.  You might fly better, but the idiotic skill system gave them more points for maintaining a subscription longer.

So restating my argument->

Person with 5 minutes/week for 6 months > Person with 24 hours/day for 5 months

Person A 2 HOURS

Person B 3600 HOURS

Yet person A has a character that is more capable than Person B, and Person A can just buy all the ISK he wants on ebay, or get some from people he knows in game, whatever.

A person who plays 1800 TIMES LONGER has a worse character than the person who never plays, only in a lousy game like EVE

TL;DR

I think we've pretty much beaten this dead horse into a meat waffle.

Be free, New Eden releases you.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

If this is the case he should probably win some kind of award : )

The "Forum Primary Award for Massive Eve Fanboy Aggro"

 

Yeah, I said it.  I'm an Eve Fanboy and I don't give a damn who knows it...

  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something.

Yes, this is a terrible idea. But, it is the only idea in all of Eve that I think is a bad one. Everything is flawless. However, that alone is enough to keep me from playing it. I just disagree with the idea of using real time to determine in-game power. I just hope WoD does not work this way. I do not think it will, because your avatar will not be hooked up to a computer that is uploading information to your brain.

Is anyone even responding to this Ginko Biloba fool anymore? Obviously he'll never understand the basics within MMORPG industry (sandbox vs theme park) and what he is crying about is actually a defining feature in many sandboxes. So anyways, how is everyone else enjoying EVE? Great sandbox and would like to see similar implementations in other settings. Could use more twitchy for perhaps fantasy but would like to see strategy retained. Wait is this thread still capable of intelligent discussion between 2 sides still? Wasn't sure, could of sworn we won this one.... =x  

Dear Ginkeq,

I read with interest this thread generated by your OP, thank you for making this thread.

May I humbly offer an alternative to waiting for a toon to skill up, namely, you can buy one! CCP has a sanctioned method for buying toons from other people so your wait is over. CCP also have a method for you to gain isk using real life money, so grinding for that pesky dreadnaught will not trouble you if you are rich enough, in real life.

I hope these two small facts will make your EVE experience richer and more fulfilling.

cheers!

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

I really have to say, that after some thought...

This is my favorite eve thread ever.

I love the title, it's got a ton of funny stuff in it.  Lots of fear and loathing, lots of unapologetic worship.

Pretty much the quintessential Eve thread, with an ideal amount of "kiss my ass" thrown in.

Thank you Gink.  Seriously, thank you.

 bleh. I'll need a better connection before i try this game again.  maybe in another month or two.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 bleh. I'll need a better connection before i try this game again.  maybe in another month or two.

Drop us a line when you're ready to give it another shot.  Fly safe amigo 07

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

I suspect the OP is just trying to troll.

If this is the case he should probably win some kind of award : )

The "Forum Primary Award for Massive Eve Fanboy Aggro"

 

Yeah, I said it.  I'm an Eve Fanboy and I don't give a damn who knows it...

You guys wish this was some sort of troll..

The problem with EVE specifically is their skill system.  Without it their game wouldn't be complete shit.  

It's funny how every response to my complaints about the skill system are:

Oh it only adds versatility, makes your character more general, etc.  It's not useful at all to have 5-10 years worth of skill investments.  The fact is, that you will never catch up to other players in EVE, because CCP are morons who made an MMORPG that has nothing to do with investing effort into your character.

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

And who wants to collect ISK all day on meaningless missions that are not challenging at all?  EVE's whole system would be like if you made people in WoW repeat those low level quests for several months straight.  Go kill 5 wild boars.. Go kill 5 orcs, etc.  Imagine that being all there is to do in a game, just to collect ISK on meaningless missions that have NO CHALLENGE.

Or you can always make ISK while being AFK through mining..

So the person who plays 5 minutes a week won't have as much ISK, but they will be able to fly better ships once they are playing again, and will have a better character than someone who invested a lot of time at once.

In any case, they could just buy the ISK with real money, which is fine in EVE because it's a game for lazy players so clearly buying ISK online is fine and so is having a skill system that works while offline.

Their game is just slanted to people who don't want to invest any time into MMORPGs.  And the sad thing is you can't catch up to these players.  They might be total newbs and your character will never be as good.  You might fly better, but the idiotic skill system gave them more points for maintaining a subscription longer.

 

So restating my argument->

Person with 5 minutes/week for 6 months > Person with 24 hours/day for 5 months

Person A 2 HOURS

Person B 3600 HOURS

Yet person A has a character that is more capable than Person B, and Person A can just buy all the ISK he wants on ebay, or get some from people he knows in game, whatever.

A person who plays 1800 TIMES LONGER has a worse character than the person who never plays, only in a lousy game like EVE

You're priceless, man, Never stop posting. "Learn EvE in a week"? Hahaha!

Originally posted by pepsibottle

 Eve is an advanced screensaver, operated by reading an encyclopedia upside down in broken English.

HAHA ADVANCED?? most of EVE is 2D.Screen savers can and do have a lot of animation,EVE has almost NONE,so no sorry CCP has a lot of catching up to do to match the tech of modern screen savers.

DUST will actually surpass it finally and allow CCP to be a part of the modern gaming world,somewhere along the lines CCP went from Dinosaur to riding around in an Acura.No they won't reach sports car status ,but hey it's a big jump moving from a Flinstone car to an Acura.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by pepsibottle

 Eve is an advanced screensaver, operated by reading an encyclopedia upside down in broken English.

 

HAHA ADVANCED?? most of EVE is 2D.Screen savers can and do have a lot of animation,EVE has almost NONE,so no sorry CCP has a lot of catching up to do to match the tech of modern screen savers.

DUST will actually surpass it finally and allow CCP to be a part of the modern gaming world,somewhere along the lines CCP went from Dinosaur to riding around in an Acura.No they won't reach sports car status ,but hey it's a big jump moving from a Flinstone car to an Acura.

Shouldnt you actually play the game before criticising it? Since you dont even know whether you have to buy the expansions or not, it's obvious you haven't. Only someone completely ignorant of the game could claim that it's "mostly 2D".

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3197925

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by pepsibottle

 Eve is an advanced screensaver, operated by reading an encyclopedia upside down in broken English.

 

HAHA ADVANCED?? most of EVE is 2D.Screen savers can and do have a lot of animation,EVE has almost NONE,so no sorry CCP has a lot of catching up to do to match the tech of modern screen savers.

DUST will actually surpass it finally and allow CCP to be a part of the modern gaming world,somewhere along the lines CCP went from Dinosaur to riding around in an Acura.No they won't reach sports car status ,but hey it's a big jump moving from a Flinstone car to an Acura.

Dust 514 is a console mmo fps based in the EvE universe that is supposed to compliment EvE online, yet both games are played separately. This is how CCP describes it:

"Dust 514 is the infantry, and an Eve Online player can contract a Dust team to go in and take control of a planet. The fleet does the flying, the infantry does the dying."

I think they are looking for players from their current 300K more than anything else. I would have thought it would be a bit of a burden, though, for serious EvE players to have to play part of their game through a console as well. Not certain how this will actually work out.

I must say after reading 25pages and laughing abit this post shows some real troll skills, and i must say to the author, a real immature and not so well written post.

Dont like it dont play it simple as that. either that or bitch about a game you dont play on some crappy forum oh wait you allready did that