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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter I have already crossed off SC2, D3, and the next Blizzard MMO, unless this move is backed away from.
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either. |
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Originally posted by Papadam
Hey I'm a Canadian and if anyone cannot see that any company who makes it big is not powered by money and greed they need to sit back and think a long while on the things that are called stock markets and investors. eg. company no make big money, company no investors, no investors, company go broke and close. Yep there it is ABC or 123 it is not that hard to understand just some cannot grab the concept that the guy in front of you at a convention or on a forum that says we will never do this does not call the shots and they have no more say in if it will be done than the guy who is still only thinking about buying the game. |
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The main issue that Mr Wood fails to understand is that charging us for extra items on top of a subscription is what gets us players so upset. In a game like DDO, which is now F2P, I have no problem with them charging me to buy "points" which in turn buys various ingame items. After all, they are getting no money from me on a regular basis, so need some way to gather some funds. Yet Blizzard charges you to buy the game, charges you to buy the expansions, charges you money to continue playing AND now wants to charge you even more? THAT is what gets players so upset. Especially considering the enormous amount of money they get monthly from subscription fees alone. |
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Why are people condemning Blizzard (well vivendi, Blizzard are the developers, vivendi are bankers) for something they have not done, and You cannot buy gear, xp bonuses or characters on the store, just 2 vanity pets. Just because you think something will happen does not mean it will. Ill be the first in line to burn an effigy of Blizzard IF they add gear and game changing items, but as im 99.9% sure it wont ever happen Im not running around in a full NERGRAGE. Blizzard/vivendi are a business, their #1 goal is to make money just like Turbin,SOE,NCSOFT and any other developer/publisher you care to mention. Blizzard are not charity and just because they have more money than other developers it does not mean they have to give it all away to charity, have lower subscription fees or free Expansions. They are develping WoW,SC2,D3,Bnet2.0 and the mystery MMO it all takes money folks and the quality blizzard demand if not cheap. Get over it.
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Originally posted by Stradden You're making pretty far reaching assumptions here. I mean, sure I suppose this COULD be leading to something more, but I don't think that just because that possibility exists that everyone should assume it to be the case. Looking rationally at this and the other RMT that Blizzard offers like the various change to character options that players have, a pattern seems to indicate that the company's plan is to offer aesthetic options only. Your statements, said rationally and in an informed way as they were, about the possibility existing that companies might take advantage of something like this are perfectly valid. You said it, you backed it up and made people aware of a possibility. you didn't rage at the top of your virtual lungs. using the boy who cried wolf analogy: You said - hey guys, there might be wolves in this area so watch out. You didn't say - Sweet jebus, a WOLF! RUUUNNNNN!!!! I'm not saying that Blizzard won't turn around one day and open a full blown cash shop. I'm just saying that the time to bang on pots and pans, hit panic buttons and scream as loudly as possible hasn't come yet and the more often people do all of those things on this subject, the less effective it becomes.
Yeah, and I can agree that as it is those two items don't seem like they affect gameplay thus my conservation of my limited "sweet jebus'", lol. That said, and knowing full well that game companies do not prioritize customer wants over what they perceive will elevate their bottom line (and I'm not judging that fact; it's just a fact), it's up to us to exam all angles of possibility from certain actions. To sit idly and without analytical thought (and not the Jamestown paranoia) on what those action could turn into and then evaluate what our own response would be should that happen seems a justifiable course to me. I know that I personally would play a game with RMT at this point (that's not meant that I might change my mind but instead to show that I have previously played such a game) and working out my actions, even if on a forum, isn't a etiquette faux paux if voiced in a reasonable way. I get what you mean about all the "sky is falling" and "end of MMO gaming" posts, though. Those would be better suited if they just read "Well, if Blizzard starts selling "useful" items I'll cancel" or "This action concerns me and I'm going to cancel". People love the dramatic, though. Asheron's Call. The one open world, classless progression, live team content oriented game that ALL game sites and developers show little respect for as a template to pattern future MMOs after.
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Originally posted by SaintViktor
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either.
BNet 2.0 is 100% free to play on. However Blizzard will be adding an "app style store" where map and mod developers and chose to add a fee to their creations of which blizzard will take a %. I was wary of this when they said it but then they showed the games that can be made with the SC2 engine, they has a FPS (SC:GHOST) and a Top down R-Type style game. video: http://diablo3x.com/starcraft-2-editor-video-preview
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Originally posted by DrowNoble
Dear lord, they are VANITY PETS. They are extras. Just DON'T BUY THE PETS, your experience will be exactly the same. |
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Originally posted by coffee Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price... How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now. If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
If WoW = The Beatles |
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Originally posted by nkryptik
Hey I'm a Canadian and if anyone cannot see that any company who makes it big is not powered by money and greed they need to sit back and think a long while on the things that are called stock markets and investors. eg. company no make big money, company no investors, no investors, company go broke and close. Yep there it is ABC or 123 it is not that hard to understand just some cannot grab the concept that the guy in front of you at a convention or on a forum that says we will never do this does not call the shots and they have no more say in if it will be done than the guy who is still only thinking about buying the game. Yea, im from Mexico, ever heard of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs? Unlike most RMT games which rely on high turnover, WOW depends on keeping a loyal customer base. Yea, few people will quit over this (although there'll be some) but the slow drip of players will continue. If bussiness is bottomline then why go through the trouble of introducing a cash shop just to sell a couple of pets? Oh, but you people seem to be alright with vanity items so a whole zoo shouldnt make a difference. Yea, Blizzard will continue to try and squeeze every red cent they can out of you and you dont realize that by consenting to this youre killing your precious WOW. Theyre gonna milk this cow before it goes to slaughter. Just to make things clear... |
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Originally posted by Caleveira Yea, im from Mexico, ever heard of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs? Unlike most RMT games which rely on high turnover, WOW depends on keeping a loyal customer base. Yea, few people will quit over this (although there'll be some) but the slow drip of players will continue. If bussiness is bottomline then why go through the trouble of introducing a cash shop just to sell a couple of pets? Oh, but you people seem to be alright with vanity items so a whole zoo shouldnt make a difference. Yea, Blizzard will continue to try and squeeze any red cent they can out of you and you dont realize that by consenting to this youre killing your precious WOW. Theyre gonna milk this cow before it goes to slaughter.
Don't support item shops in sub based games unless you want them to milk you for more money and more items continue to not be included in your sub fee box purchases. Support games that don't have item shops. If this hurts them and does not help them, this practice will end. Don't accept extra charges when you don't have to, send the message with your wallet. |
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Originally posted by Papadam Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price... How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now. If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
These pets don't effect gameplay in any way. Stop whining. |
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Originally posted by SaintViktor
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either.
I second this. |
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Originally posted by Papadam Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price... How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now. If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point? Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
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Originally posted by Frobner
Blizzard has always been known for creating top quality games above all. True dat! The amount of profit was irrelevant. Doubt that. Profit = new game development. More profit = more, better game development. These changes are made to create EXTRA money. According to many ( many = greater than 0, less than infinity? So... 3? ) - these changes do not effect game enjoyment. I thought we were worried about "gameplay". There is no doubt these changes effect "enjoyment", else why would people pay for them? And Blizzard of old would then have not accepted things like that into their games. Maybe because no one had ever thought of doing it way back in those mystical mythical times when games were free to make and devs didn't need to eat. The only purpose of this vanity items is to make EXTRA money. Uh, yeah. "EXTRA" money? You're a socialist, aren't you? Extra money = profit = new game development. Blizzard of old would never have allowed that. Close personal friends are you? Cause true gamers (mythical creatures that loathe money) would add it into the game as part of GAMEPLAY - not to pay extra to enhance gaming enjoyment. You know this because you worked with them on the dev. team, right? RIGHT? I have always respected Blizzard for their products and I still do. That on the other hand does not mean that the FUTURE products from Blizzard will get my respect. Cause a line has been crossed ( LOOK OUT! DON'T TRIP! ) where EXTRA money has been made more important than the enjoyment of the gamer.
If you haven't noticed, the cost of living is constantly going up. Things are more expensive to produce these days, including software. So, instead of jacking up the monthly sub fee and raising box prices, Blizzard is getting creative and adding new optional items you can buy and services you can use, to help game development. I guess you'd rather pay more per month?
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Oh well, so much talk about this issue, might as well as give my opinion that is also on the no-RMT-in-my-P2P side. A cash shop is still a cash shop, it offers two simple vanity pets, yet it's still a cash shop, currently called the "Pet Store". It may be just these forums increased hating issues, or there's still people that play the P2P over F2Ps for a reason, but if chaos also happened on social networks and other forums, it means the feeling is there, the P2P genre still exists for a reason that is the people that dislike RMT for virtual goods on a game (another reason why gold selling is illegal in most if not all P2P games and I do not consider EVE's plexes a RMT for that effect, it's an exchange of game time for game money and not simple generated stuff). Anyway what will make them decide is the lost subs comparison (that they consider lost due to this) over money earned from the pet store. Potentially for every 3 pets sold they can afford the loss of 2 subs. I don't know how the actual player base reaction is (and no, Blizzard forums are not a valid meter as they can and do delete posts that contain negative feedback and they have a very strong moderation presence), especially if it raised an uproar over there too. You can even sell your pet redeeming code for in-game money. |
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Originally posted by Wraithone
Your first sentence applies to you as well... Neither do I for that matter. Blizzard is a multi BILLION dollar corporation at this point. They have demonstrated that they have a very keen sense of what makes them money. Losing a small percentage of players over something trival like this, isn't even going to show up above the normal churn for them.
touche', My writing is better than Jon Wood in my own recognition though.' And I do agree with you that making some extra money out of an old game at the cost of a small player base is not out of question for Bliz. |
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Originally posted by coffee
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point? Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet. There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes. If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it. If WoW = The Beatles |
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Looks like MMORPG is being paid to help the cause of these MMOs. If you let this slide it only gets worse. Pretty soon ALL cosmetic stuff in games will be "extras" that you have to pay for. Do not support these games with your wallet. Say no and play games that do not do this. Jon Wood is obviously biased. The truth is those items would have been given in the game somehow if the item shop wasn't there for them to drop it in. Jon gives a analogy with Huggies and Wipes .. . well Jon those diapers never came with wipes in the first place. Those are an additional product. What Blizzard wants is people to start paying extra for items they gotten previously for their sub fee and box purchases. Totally different and people should not support it. Cancel your accounts to show you don't approve. These are tough economical times and we don't need to support the corporate greed. Guess what if this works well for Blizzard it will only spread to every game and no cosmetic items will be obtained in game. Go to games that still do not support item shops. Cancel now. |
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Originally posted by Papadam
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point? Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet. There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes. If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it.
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As an EQ2 player: Muahahaha! Welcome to the club. Selling cosmetic stuff for real money in a P2P game is a ripp off. Blizzard if anyone should afford to add features like this for free. It seems like MMO companies all over are getting more and more greedy, but adding stuff like this is actually dangerous. If both F2P games and P2P games have RMT shops, why would anyone prefer P2P? The P2 games are still more solid but some games like DDO will be the real winner here. Guildwars 2 will dominate the market if the other publishers keeps acting like this.
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To be honest I do not think I have ever seen this much bitching about people bitching. For every minute You are angry , You lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson |
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Originally posted by MMO_Doubter I have already crossed off SC2, D3, and the next Blizzard MMO, unless this move is backed away from.
You and other like minded individuals comprise a TINY percentage of the player base. In the grand scheme of things, your presence and money will not be missed. This is trival, and if you allow it to deprive you of the enjoyment of the next few games, you have only yourself to blame. |
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Originally posted by Papadam
Perspective is indeed the key here. But make no mistake about it, certain aspects of the American economy are every bit as socialist(or in some cases fascist) as those of Europe. This hysteria about a trival matter is just another example of symbolism over substance, Not to mention I have yet to see someone supply a non subjective definition of "greed". It almost always translates to either "you have more than I do" or "You have more than I believe you should have". Neither are valid, and rely on appeals to emotion rather than reason. |
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Originally posted by Malickie
And people bitching, about the people who are bitching, about the people bitching here? |
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Originally posted by Papadam
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point? Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet. There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes. If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it.
That made me laugh. Blizzard can do whatever they want. It isn't somehow wrong for Blizzard to make bonus content and actually charge money for it, its just a business decision. If you don't like it, quit. You aren't somehow entitled to extra content that doesn't affect gameplay. |
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