Originally posted by outfctrl

Just an quick interjection here.

Research indicates that the rate of molestation at the hands of homosexuals is higher than among heterosexuals.

Now, you wonder why Gay marriage keeps being shot down.  Adoption of a child by a Gay couple?

 

That is pretty damned easy to explain.

Sexual behavioral pathology comes largely from pathological sexual DEVELOPMENT... frequently associated with guilt and shame.

Because homosexuals are (almost by definition) victims of institutionalized emotional abuse in most cultures, they are probably statistically more likely to have pathological SEXUAL development and therefore a greater likelihood to become abusers.  Catholic priests have it EXCEPTIONALLY bad.. since they are absolutely not ALLOWED to be gay (I'm pretty sure the priesthood is a desperate refuge for many gay Catholics).  Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if there were ANY gay Catholics without some diagnosable history of emotional abuse.

You will find EXACTLY the same likelihood of abuse in heterosexuals that were victims of sexual or emotional abuse associated with pathological sexual development.

In short, religion and stigma are probably the two greatest root causes of molestation on the planet.

 Edit- actually, adoption of a GAY child by a same sex couple would probably be much LESS likely to produce an abuser than that same child raised with heterosexual intolerance.

2nd Edit- I have to admit that I answered this post in seconds because the GLARING flaws in the logic of any such study would render it essentially useless.  If my post offended anyone unintentionally I apologize.  All of the research I've done since I first made this post indicates that sexual behavioral pathology IS correlated to small degree with emotional trauma, difficulty with intimacy and trust issues, and difficulty forming social relationships among other things. 

Here is information from the APA:

Does Stigma Still Exist About Homosexuality?

Yes. Fears and misunderstandings about homosexuality are wide spread. They present daunting challenges to the development and maintenance of a positive self-image in gay, lesbian and bisexual persons and often to their families as well. “Homophobia” is a term that refers to the irrational fear and prejudice against homosexual persons. Public opinion polls in the United States show that in the past twenty years, feelings toward gay men, lesbians and bisexuals have moved in a significantly positive direction. Nevertheless, when compared to other social groups homosexuals are still among the most stigmatized groups in the nation. Hate crimes are prevalent. Gay men and lesbians are still banned from serving openly in the US military service. Child custody decisions still frequently view gay and lesbian people as unfit parents. Gay and lesbian adolescents are often taunted and humiliated in their school settings. Many professional persons and employees in all occupations are still fearful of identifying as gay or lesbians in their work settings. Gay relationships are not widely recognized in any legal way.

What Position Has the American Psychiatric Association Taken Regarding This Stigma?

In 1992, the American Psychiatric Association, recognizing the power of the stigma against homosexuality, issued the following statement:

“Whereas homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgement, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities, the American Psychiatric Association calls on all international health organizations and individual psychiatrists in other countries, to urge the repeal in their own country of legislation that penalized homosexual acts by consenting adults in private. And further the APA calls on these organizations and individuals to do all that is possible to decrease the stigma related to homosexuality wherever and whenever it may occur.”

Such organizational recognition of homophobia has been important in changing attitudes about homosexuality.

Is It Possible To Change One’s Sexual Orientation (“Reparative Therapy”)?

There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of “reparative therapy” as a treatment to change one’s sexual orientation, nor is it included in the APA’s Task Force Report, Treatments of Psychiatric Disorders. More importantly, altering sexual orientation is not an appropriate goal of psychiatric treatment. Some may seek conversion to heterosexuality because of the difficulties that they encounter as a member of a stigmatized group. Clinical experience indicates that those who have integrated their sexual orientation into a positive sense of self-function at a healthier psychological level than those who have not. “Gay affirmative psychotherapy” may be helpful in the coming out process, fostering a positive psychological development and overcoming the effects of stigmatization. A position statement adopted by the Board in December 1998 said:

"The American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as “reparative” or “conversion” therapy, which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder, or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/ her homosexual orientation.”

What Do the Parents of Gay Men/Lesbian/Bisexuals experience?

When a person “comes out “ to their parents, it can be a very emotionally trying experience for all involved. Most parents are concerned for the welfare of their children, recognizing the difficulties posed by being a member of a stigmatized group. Often parents also fear rejection by their own family, friends, religious, or social groups. Fortunately, support exists for parents who are struggling to come to terms with their child’s homosexuality. PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) is an organization comprised of the families of gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals that provides information and assistance to parents and families. Family or individual psychotherapy can be very helpful in dealing with questions and concerns about a gay child.

How Do the Children of Gay/Lesbians Parents Fare?

Many gay men and women are parents and some conceived their children in prior heterosexual marriages. Recently an increasing number of gay parents have conceived children and raised them from birth either as single parents or in committed relationships. Often this is done through alternative insemination, adoption or through foster parenting. Numerous studies have shown that the children of gay parents are as likely to be healthy and well adjusted as children raised in heterosexual households. Children raised in gay or lesbian households do not show any greater incidence of homosexuality or gender identity issues than other children. Children raised in nontraditional homes with gay/lesbian parents can encounter some special challenges related to the ongoing stigma against homosexuality, but most children surmount these problems

And from Stanford: (READ this carefully it took me hours to track this down and shows some interesting "holes" in research)

Homosexuality and Mental Health

As I wrote in a previous blog entry, homosexuality was only taken off the WHO’s list of illnesses in 1991. This fairly recent de-classification of homosexuality as pathology, combined with widespread homophobia throughout most of the world, results in increased rates of mental illness among homosexual populations. Studies from various developed countries all show that there is a strong correlation between homosexual identity and poorer mental health in the developed world. Yet again, no studies are available regarding this topic in developing nations, but seeing as many developing countries have laws against homosexuality, I am comfortable assuming that such trends in mental health are truly global. It is important to recognize that being homosexual does not itself result in mental illness, rather, social stigma surrounding homosexuality results in negative psychological consequences.

Some global trends

Every country that actually studied mental health trends in homosexual populations found a strong correlation between sexual orientation and mental health. An internet survey of Japanese gay, bisexual, or questioning men found that 15% had attempted suicide, 70% had high levels of anxiety, and 13% had clinical depression. History of verbal harassment correlated strongly with later attempted suicide (1). A Dutch study observed that gay and lesbian participants had poorer general mental health (2). The Geneva Gay Men’s Health Study notes a general increase in disability and decrease in quality of life of homosexual men, compared to heterosexual men with 19.2% of gay men studied suffering from major depression and 16.7% reporting alcohol or drug dependence (3). In New Zealand, LGBT youth are four times as likely as their heterosexual peers to have major depression, and 6.2 times as likely to attempt suicide (4).

What is causing these patterns?

In many cases, social stigma and shame surrounding homosexuality result in low self-esteem, and in gay people concealing their feelings from others. As a result, they lack social support, which (as a tradeoff for minimizing discrimination) exacerbates distress. An American study found that the degree of internalized homonegativity among gay men predicts poor metal health (5). In short, gay people tent to have generally poorer health because of internalized negative perceptions (determined by cultural, social, and religious expectations) about who they are. Especially anti-gay cultural norms amplify this distress. For example, the Japanese study stressed the fact that in Japan, homosexuality brings shame on the family, and there is a strong cultural emphasis on honor and avoiding shame (1). In this case, homosexuals in Japan would feel even more pressure to stay closeted, which would lead to even more psychological turmoil. As one researcher at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health explained, “the old advice to gay men to fight, deny, or minimize their homosexuality likely only increases depression, greater isolation, and poorer sexual health. In short, viewing homosexuality as a disorder is not only inaccurate, it may be harmful as well.” (5).

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Originally posted by outfctrl

Just an quick interjection here.

Research indicates that the rate of molestation at the hands of homosexuals is higher than among heterosexuals.

Now, you wonder why Gay marriage keeps being shot down.  Adoption of a child by a Gay couple?

 

 

I'm 1000% against homosexual child adoption, even more so after reading this article ^^

Sorry, not biting on the trollbait today.

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Originally posted by outfctrl

Just an quick interjection here.

Research indicates that the rate of molestation at the hands of homosexuals is higher than among heterosexuals.

Now, you wonder why Gay marriage keeps being shot down.  Adoption of a child by a Gay couple?

 

 

I'm 1000% against homosexual child adoption, even more so after reading this article ^^

Proof positive that the religious fanatics will believe anything that follows their beliefs despite the source being a putrescent pile of biased cow entrails.  They are sheep... mere sheep.... Which is how the religious leaders want them to be:  Easy to control and manipulate.

There is no factual proof that Homosexuals are worse off than Heterosexuals.  Thus, there is no factual reason to actually ban Homosexual marriages.  Yet, the religious fanatics continue to come up with outlandish and blatantly made-up reasons to sway the lesser-minded populace to keep the ban on Homosexual marriages on majority of the states. 

Luckily, though, many people are now seeing through the religious fanatics bull crap and are now finding the truth.  Which is prevalent with the states that now have Same-Sex marriages.

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Originally posted by outfctrl

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

The Gideons started it.  I wonder what Christian activists would do if the Nation of Islam started putting a Koran in every hotel room.

Anyway, from what I understand people have been using pages from hotel Bibles to roll joints for almost 50 years. 

Originally posted by Vato26 

Proof positive that the religious fanatics will believe anything that follows their beliefs despite the source being a putrescent pile of biased cow entrails

 

What's proof positive is that anyone against homo marriage is considered a religious zealot. I believe an atheist posted his disagreement with it within this thread.

Personally, I don't care. I don't support either side. I'm completely neutral on the subject. It doesn't affect my life at all, so, in short, I don't give a shit.

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Vato26 

Proof positive that the religious fanatics will believe anything that follows their beliefs despite the source being a putrescent pile of biased cow entrails

 

 

What's proof positive is that anyone against homo marriage is considered a religious zealot. I believe an atheist posted his disagreement with it within this thread.

Personally, I don't care. I don't support either side. I'm completely neutral on the subject. It doesn't affect my life at all, so, in short, I don't give a shit.

You're right, he did say that he is an atheist.  I must admit that did surprise me a little when I read it, but it proves that the issue is not divided strictly down religious lines.  Even though critics of those against gay marraige routinely frame it that way.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by outfctrl

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

 

Anyway, from what I understand people have been using pages from hotel Bibles to roll joints for almost 50 years. 

and everyone of those people are going to Hell, too.

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by outfctrl

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

 

Anyway, from what I understand people have been using pages from hotel Bibles to roll joints for almost 50 years. 

and everyone of those people are going to Hell, too.

You're going to hell for not capitalizing the first word of that sentence.  I was told by god himself that it is a sin not to.

I'm writing a book now with rules that god has given me and will pass it down for many years to come.  I'm on chapter 2 and can't think of a good opener.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Vato26 

Proof positive that the religious fanatics will believe anything that follows their beliefs despite the source being a putrescent pile of biased cow entrails

 

 

What's proof positive is that anyone against homo marriage is considered a religious zealot. I believe an atheist posted his disagreement with it within this thread.

Personally, I don't care. I don't support either side. I'm completely neutral on the subject. It doesn't affect my life at all, so, in short, I don't give a shit.

 

You're right, he did say that he is an atheist.  I must admit that did surprise me a little when I read it, but it proves that the issue is not divided strictly down religious lines.  Even though critics of those against gay marraige routinely frame it that way.

Hate and prejudice are certainly not limited to the religious.  I think the religious get more press because they claim that God loves you and is sending you to hell anyway.

Zin, I had begged out of this debate and you asked for direct response which I provided..

Can I expect a response from you or have I finally secured my position irretrievably beneath your contempt?

Originally posted by outfctrl

Just an quick interjection here.

Research indicates that the rate of molestation at the hands of homosexuals is higher than among heterosexuals.

Now, you wonder why Gay marriage keeps being shot down.  Adoption of a child by a Gay couple?

 

Bahaha!  What a credible source of information... take a look at the sidebar on that site at some of the other stories.  Again, LMAO!!!  Why you link that hateful dung just boggles the mind.  Here is a more credible article  that is based on research done by actually MH proferssionals in the field and all of their studies can be traced to published medical journals and scientific research studies. 

Originally posted by Fishermage 

The Holy War was started against us in 1979 (well way before that, but that was it's official start in most recent years). Any wars we have been involved in a reaction to that war. Now, one can argue whether or not these actions were wise or handled properly, but we didn't start this in any way, shape or form.

Now as to what caused the economic meltdown or spending, it had little to do with any war. It had to do with domestic and monetary policy over the past few decades. It is entitlement programs that are bankrupting us, and monetary policy that is creating booms and busts, as well as destroying the dollar.

I agree with you about God though, and disagree with Zind. His selective Christ died for some sins and not others, or so it seems.

No Fisher, you are guilty of mischaracterizing me as well.  Just as you were when you claimed I was putting words in Christ's mouth on Enkindu's thread, "Why I reject organized religion."  I didn't respond to that post because it's obvious that you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue, and so I feel it's best to amicably disagree on it.

However, whether or not it is your intention to provoke the matter, I will respond this time.  On the other thread, you quoted from I Timothy 4:9-10.  I have no argument that Christ is the Savior of all men.  He is.  On this we agree.  Where we part is that you believe every human being who has ever lived from the beginning of time up to the present day has gone, is going or will go to heaven upon their death.  I do not believe that and it's not because I don't want to believe it, it's because I have to take the scriptures at their word.  The overwhelming amount evidence in the Bible clearly points to separation of humans into two places at the end of their lives.  That is not my opinion, that is God's Word.

Salvation is available to all, God is not a selective God, He freely grants salvation to all those who accept God's gift of forgiveness for their sins.  But does that mean that all will be saved?  My opinion is that it is you who must selectively choose those verses you like in order to arrive at that conclusion and ignore the mountain of verses that seem to contradict that.

We don't have to confine oursleves to the Book of Revelations or even the entire New Testament for that matter. In the Book of Daniel, the prophet Daniel is given a glimpse of what lies in store for the human race at the end of time.

Daniel 12:1-2, "But at that time your people - everyone whose name is written in the book - will be delivered.  Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

If all are automatically saved simply by Christ's death, how can you explain that verse?  How can there be shame and contempt in heaven if everyone is going there?

Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter through the narrow gate.  For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few will find it."

If there are two gates and only one leads to life, how can you conclude that the other gate, which is destruction, leads to anything other than death?

Matthew 25:31-34,41, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels come with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritence, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Then he will say to those on the left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

How can you reconcile your belief in automatic universal salvation and that passage?  Because, I think it's easier to explain how your apparent passages which point to automatic universal salvation, actually do not, than it is to somehow dismiss these passages as anything other than two destinations after death.  Again, you and I agree that salvation is universally available to all, we disagree that it is universally found by all.  Also, you and I agree that nobody can work to achieve their salvation, but that does not mean that God does not give us free will to chose whether or not to accept or reject God's gift of eternal life.

Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."  Asking to know God's will, seeking it out and knocking at the door which leads to eternal life is not working for ones salvation.  Not in the sense of doing a certain number of good tasks in ones life and expecting it earn your salvation.

And another question I would ask you, is if we are all saved automatically, why is that not clearly stated in the Bible or come out of Christ's mouth himself?  I do not believe that God is a God of mystery.  I believe that His will is plain for all to see.  If all are automatically saved, I don't understand why Christ wouldn't say somewhere in the scriptures, "Hey, I'm going to die for all mankind and that is the end of your spiritual struggle.  You don't have to accept it, you don't have to acknowledge it, you don't have to do a thing.  Just go about your lives as you normally would and when you die, you will be pleastantly surprised that you were saved without even knowing it."

Now as far as God's love goes compared to His wrath, I would refer back to that sermon I shared with you by Tim Keller.  A God of love can only be a truly loving God by handing out judgement for the transgressions that have been committed against Him.  Each person can either pay that price themselves or they can ask Christ to do it for them, which he gladly will.  But you have to ask him to.  I's not that hard.

To go back to another child example.  Suppose you have a son who commits a murder.  Can you still not love your son while at the same time understanding that he deserves to be punished for him crime?  If I had a son who did that, I would accept the fact that he should serve a punishment for his crime, but I would not stop loving him.  Love and judgement are not irreconcilable.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Zin, I had begged out of this debate and you asked for direct response which I provided..

 

Can I expect a response from you or have I finally secured my position irretrievably beneath your contempt?

Sorry, I was busy responding to Fisher's post.  And it took awhile.  I do plan to respond to yours as well, but I need to take a break and do some other stuff.  Hang in there, I'll get to it when I get a chance.

Originally posted by Teala

For you people that still do not understand.   Insurance companies, hospitals and such will not recognize the rights of a couple unless they are married, that means that a gay couple that is together unless they are legally married do not qualify for the same rights as a heterosexual couple.   What exactly does that mean?   For instance the insurance company can charge a different rate and deny claims because they are not legally "married", that also means that if one is lying on their death bed the hospital can deny the partner visitation rights because they are not married!   So many things can be denied a couple that is not married because states say you must be married to obtain certain privileges and rights!   Do you not get it!    Seriously...what the fuck do you not understand?

Pisses me off that people fail to understand these basic things.    The sanctity of mariage will not be jeopardized if two women or two men get married.   It is stupid and and very arrogant that some people cannot see past their own judgemental behaviors that according to some of your very own beliefs is left to God to pass judgement - not you!

Thank you Teala.

To All those who are against gay marriage based on their particualr religion, I have one question: How does gay marriage affect your relationship with God?

For me, another person's life is precious and their happiness is important to me. Providing any minority with the same legal rights as the majority is not only American, it is the right thing to do.

As a Christian, I am appalled at the uproar against people wtho just want to be able to express their love and have the same rights as everybody else. We, as a community of faith, are committing blasphemy by using hateful language against these people in His name and are forgetting Christ's greatest commandment: "To Love One Another, as I have Loved You".

Originally posted by outfctrl

Just an quick interjection here.

Research indicates that the rate of molestation at the hands of homosexuals is higher than among heterosexuals.

Now, you wonder why Gay marriage keeps being shot down.  Adoption of a child by a Gay couple?

 

Of all the ignorant things I have heard. You sir, are either a liar or incompitent. Research shows that there is no corralation whatsoever between sexual preference and being a child  molester. Please read this article from UC Davis, and please quit spreading your biggoted, small minded filth around, you make real Americans who believe in freedom and equality look bad. Move to Iran or Afghanistan, you share their beliefs in common.

Oh, and by the way. the link you included from the Dakota Press is NOT A RESEARCH FIRM. It is a conservative hype machine. Using it as a reference just shows that you have no mind or independant thought

outfctrl subscribes to the "bizarre obscure pro-conservative journal newsletter" so he can bring us all of these fine articles from world class journals like the "Dakota Voice."

Observe these other fine, unbiased articles:

UN Climate Treaty in December 2009 a Threat to US Sovereignty

Now Six Planned Parenthood Clinics Caught in Statutory Rape Coverup

NASA Study Shows Sun Responsible for Planet Warming

It’s Begun: Liberals Invoke Specter of 'Hate Crimes' to Eradicate 'Hate Speech'

Nationwide Push to Overturn State Bans on Embryonic Stem Cell Destruction

Congressmen Accuse Muslim Group of Spying on Congress

Speaker of the House Embraces Unconstitutional Government

News Organizations Stand with Fox News Against Obama

Evolution: A Theory Headed for Extinction?

Phyllis Schlafly: Obama Makes Polygamy a 21st-Century Issue

Census Bureau Data: Abstinence Education Reduces Teen Abortion Rate

Embryo Adoption Web Site Adds New Videos to Promote Saving Days-Old Unborn

Obama Science Advisor: Newborn Baby Not Yet a Human Being

I had to stop before i got to "Devil worshipping communist wolf-boy found in Obama's basement" lol...

outfctrl I do see where a lot of your ideas come from now.

Just wanted to note that I added a lot of

Relevant information

in my response/ post 101 above.

Originally posted by outfctrl

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 19:

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Leviticus 21:

16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy. [e] ' "

Leviticus also tells us that eating pork products, lobster, shrimp, catfish, or any other animal with a cloven hoof or a bottom feeding sea creature is forbidden and that we must be cast our of society for doing so. It also tells us to put people to death for committing adultery and that it is forbidden to marry a woman who is not a virgin or who has been divorced.

So, which of these laws do you follow?  

Originally posted by Astralglide

Leviticus 19:

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Damn it.. I KNEW Supercuts was a bad idea.  Looks like I'm toast.

Originally posted by Astralglide

Originally posted by outfctrl

This is Royal.  You have got to be kidding me.

The openly gay 'Lord of the Rings' star admits to a habit of tearing out the Bible passage that condemns homosexuality -- Leviticus 18:22 -- every time he finds one in his hotel room. The passage: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 19:

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Leviticus 21:

16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy. [e] ' "

Leviticus also tells us that eating pork products, lobster, shrimp, catfish, or any other animal with a cloven hoof or a bottom feeding sea creature is forbidden and that we must be cast our of society for doing so. It also tells us to put people to death for committing adultery and that it is forbidden to marry a woman who is not a virgin or who has been divorced.

So, which of these laws do you follow?  

 

They follow none of them.    Christians, so called Christians, like to say that the bible is their book of rules and laws and regularly bring up what God supposedly said and that this and that ...and yet, when you confront them on the other things that God said and what he says they should do regarding certain things they simple change the subject or interrupt the words to mean something other than what was said or even further just come right out and say that that does not apply to today's society...weird I know...but it is amazing how many Christians only follow the rules that they feel need followed and the rest are totally neglected.
 

Originally posted by Astralglide

Leviticus 19:

it is forbidden to marry a woman who is not a virgin or who has been divorced.

Hell, no one likes to own a used car.

Originally posted by Zindaihas

Originally posted by torerik5

Originally posted by Zindaihas

You know, the thing is that it's not so much that I am against gay marraige.  Perhaps in principal I am not when it comes to the government saying who can and cannot marry.  It's more the reality that our society has devolved (yes, devolved) to the point that the people even have to consider the issue.  It's an ominous sign for the future of our country.  As recently as two decades ago if anyone of note had publicly proclaimed support for gay marraige, that person would have been regarded as a loon and relegated to the fringe of society.  Government didn't have to consider the matter because no more than a handful of individuals even thought it was a tenable position.  Today it's an issue that is splitting the country.

And you don't just have to look at that issue to support my position that morally, America is in big trouble.  Many of our parents love to talk about how when they were kids, they didn't even have to lock their doors because there was no need to feel unsafe in their own house or their own neighborhood.  Today we've got 15-year old girls being gang raped in public and crowds of people looking on without doing anything.

So perhaps, it's not whether the government has a right to say who should be allowed to get married; perhaps the issue is whether or not America's future looks promising.  You can take all the factors, add them up and say, "I'm not so sure."  You and I may agree that we are destroying our country economically, but we may differ on whether or not we are falling apart morally.  And I would venture to guess that the difference stems from the difference in our faiths.

If you believe that God at some time in the past destroyed the earth by a flood because of mankind's behavior (which I do) and you believe God destroyed a couple of cities in the past named Sodom and Gomorrah because of mankind's behavior (which I do), then why must I and others like me be vilified for seeing signs we find troubling and worrying that it's possible that our country could find itself in similiar dire circumstances at some point in the future if this country continues on the road that it's on?

Is it really hateful to be concerned about the well-being of our country when we see signs, both morally and economically, which may point to its eventual demise, and would likewise, be willing to give up our lives to not see that happen?

When the f... did the US or other countries for that mather have moral???? the moral is only placed by those who think they one on the right side! who are "We" too say what moral or not???? I think , these guardians off moral, is a bucnh off biggots, who should take a looke on their own lives and how they live it and so on, instead off making a law on how gay people should live! havent the people off the US learned from their own history, what did your forefaders fight for???

 

Again, more mischaracterization.  Nowhere did I say that I or "we" decide what is right and what is wrong.  I do say that God decides those things.  And who are we to say otherwise?  I didn't make up what is written in the Bible, it was around long before you or I were ever here.

And looking at examples from the Bible, there is precedent for destruction based on behavior.

Genesis 6:5-6: "The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.  The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain."

Why is such a large portion of man's history filled with wars?  Why are our prisons filled to overflowing?  Why is there so much corruption in government and on Wall Street and just about everywhere else you can think of.  I'm not making this stuff up, it's right in front of your eyes.  Just open them.

Why history is filled with wars!?! its beacause of religion an politics! And stopp using the bibel, thats too cheap, using bibel quotes does not give any man the right too decide whats right or wrong! I do not belive in any god, but that is my right as a free man! i dont pass judgement on u, beacause u belive, its your right! thats beacause i see it as right for any man too live as they like! Dosent it say in the bible that all man are equal! (Sorry my bad english). Now i think in this is discussion, where religion should be put aside, and normal common sense should rule out of respect for all man kind! Soo using the bibel or any holy bok is only going too make it messy! But as i say i respect your belife, but u should put it aside, a try too look at it in another way! Now ask your self this!?! does gay marriage hurt u in any way or any of us?
 

Originally posted by torerik5

Why history is filled with wars!?! its beacause of religion an politics! And stopp using the bibel, thats too cheap, using bibel quotes does not give any man the right too decide whats right or wrong! I do not belive in any god, but that is my right as a free man! i dont pass judgement on u, beacause u belive, its your right! thats beacause i see it as right for any man too live as they like! Dosent it say in the bible that all man are equal! (Sorry my bad english). Now i think in this is discussion, where religion should be put aside, and normal common sense should rule out of respect for all man kind! Soo using the bibel or any holy bok is only going too make it messy! But as i say i respect your belife, but u should put it aside, a try too look at it in another way! Now ask your self this!?! does gay marriage hurt u in any way or any of us?

We have tried this argument for many weeks in English to no avail.

Try some Norwegian on him : )

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by torerik5

Why history is filled with wars!?! its beacause of religion an politics! And stopp using the bibel, thats too cheap, using bibel quotes does not give any man the right too decide whats right or wrong! I do not belive in any god, but that is my right as a free man! i dont pass judgement on u, beacause u belive, its your right! thats beacause i see it as right for any man too live as they like! Dosent it say in the bible that all man are equal! (Sorry my bad english). Now i think in this is discussion, where religion should be put aside, and normal common sense should rule out of respect for all man kind! Soo using the bibel or any holy bok is only going too make it messy! But as i say i respect your belife, but u should put it aside, a try too look at it in another way! Now ask your self this!?! does gay marriage hurt u in any way or any of us?

We have tried this argument for many weeks in English to no avail.

 

Try some Norwegian on him : )

Naaah! he might be scared by my black metall looks and language!  The only fail i see here is the total ingnorance too how the world around him works! this is 21 century not the dark ages!