I just wanted to add that I am still in the game I havent quit it may have read that way in my post.

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

Originally posted by Thillian

Hard to find a group for this and that? Well don't play it's optional. Don't like the crafting? Don't craft, it's optional. Don't like the gating system which forces you to grind to see the content? Well, skip it then, it's optional. Don't like the leveling system? Avoid it, roll a PvMP, because well leveling is optional. Don't like the combat? Don't worry, just ignore it, stay level 1 and dance in the Bree auction hall. Don't like to see mages raiding on goats all around Middle Earth? What's the problem man? Just turn off the graphics, because graphics are optional. Don't like the classes? Don't play any. Just stay on the login window, because logging in, is well .. optional.

Ummm, yeah.....what?

I have no idea what your argument is or why you are against this.  Do you even play the game?  More options give players more ways to play the game.  If they like to play the storyline in a group, then they can.  If they want to play solo, then they can.  I think more MMO's should offer more options to their player base.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

Solution to the problem that people have hard time finding a group for the content is not to make everything soloable. The solution is to motivate people to "help" others or to give them bigger pool of players to group up with (cross-server LFG system).

But that's too many man hours for too little profit, let's just make it all soloable, and pull out another paid expansion.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

Every book is self contained and optional, you can leave this "path" and skip, complete, rejoin any time you want. You do not, and never have had to do them in order, ever.

And they were thinking they were going to make an awesome PVE MMO that was story based and episodic. They were right. 

 

Read my post more clearly and you'll see I'm specifically talking about the story-driven dynamic COMBINED with the parcelling out of the map over time. A strange dynamic I think specific to LoTRO in that they didn't give a whole map, then added to it, but gave only part of a whole map that many are familiar with. And also my point was that the combination of the two would lead to a stratified playerbase.

I'm not knocking your precioussss game. I was addressing the problem that the devs, obviously, in introucing the proposed solution in the article are aware of as well.

 

 

Middle earth is a big place, they are simply working their way west.... How else would they do it?

 

They could do it in a way that doesn't force players into stratified level bands across the game world. So far new lands have been for the highest level players only.  If this trend continues then as the game progresses, some of the parts of the map which should be the most dynamic (like Gondor for example) will be only for the very highest levels.  And by tying the story line to the rollout of new lands it also means as time goes on more and more players will be playing much different parts of the story at the same time which also in a way helps disjoint the player community.

Not all of the new zones have been only for high level. Infact most of the new content in SOM is for 30 - 65.

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

Oh, right! I'm sorry, you want others to be forced to play with you. I see.

 Great idea. One of the main problems that I had with this game is never being able to do story quests because I could never find a party.

Originally posted by junzo316

Me ignoring you is non-optional, now...

 

Obviously it's not if you replied to me 5 minutes after that.

My post was a reaction towards the other guy who said that "well don't play epic books, it's optional".

Btw, doesn't one of the moderator over at AoC EU forums have the same avatar picture as you?

Originally posted by Thillian

Solution to the problem that people have hard time finding a group for the content is not to make everything soloable. The solution is to motivate people to "help" others or to give them bigger pool of players to group up with (cross-server LFG system).

But that's too many man hours for too little profit, let's just make it all soloable, and pull out another paid expansion.

Right! why didn't they think of that?!?!

Its not like skirmishes are group based content that can be entered through a new GUI window that you can join from anywhere in the world or anything.

That would be silly.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Thillian

These were the last bits of group content in Lotro.

 

No, it wasn't, and also, they are still there.

 

Its options they are giving people.

Why do you hate fun?

 

 

 

It was nearly impossible before to find a group to do these. Now it's gonna be fully impossible.

Group content is more fun than solo content.

Until they make a mentoring system or cross-server LFG for instances, there's still gonna be problem with finding a group in a game oriented for end-game.

You assume then that LOTRO  contains absolutely no players who enjoy grping?

Is there a problem with having additonal modes added to any MMO to ensure that all playstyles are catered for.

I've been back and forth with LOTRO and to be quite frank it's never been impossible to find book grp's, I suspect that those who tell us it's "Impossible" just aren't really trying, or perhaps prefer to be asked rather than do the asking.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by junzo316

Me ignoring you is non-optional, now...

 

 

Obviously it's not if you replied to me 5 minutes after that.

My post was a reaction towards the other guy who said that "well don't play epic books, it's optional".

Btw, doesn't one of the moderator over at AoC EU forums have the same avatar picture as you?

Lol...no idea.  Have never played AoC.  Maybe he has the same Avatar as me.  =)

Grouping outside of kins in lotro seems to be kind of a pain to me. Most people only group to do quests and it is rough because rarely do people have all their quests lined up so you constantly have an influx and outflux of group member movement.

I personally can't really stand grouping in lotro because it trivializes everything you come across. I like the challenge of going it alone or with a single partner. I get the chance to use the moves i want and the strategy i want.

Making it possible to solo the earlier books in my opinion is a fantastic idea.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

 

So your first answer was pointless or just agreed with something I didnt wrote? Im getting quite confused here. So I put my words in a diffrent way. I want more group mechanisms in my mmo, that is why I like them. I see why Turbine are doing what they do with their game and I dont like it. 

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by astrob0y

And here Im hopeing that the trend in AAA mmo´s would sooner or later shift to a game mechanism that would condur player to group and make new friends. Not every new option is a good one.  Oh well, time to dust of my cute hobbit and do the last books solo then, dosent sound to much of a fun ride but I will do it for the lore and to pwn some orcs :)

And yeah. I know that the trend is moar solo stuff in mmo´s but I dont want anything with that. I want to be apart of a grand team and have a important role in large and smaller battles against the enemy of my avatar.

And you still have that option.

That I dont like at all. I know that Ive that option tyvm.

 

edit: I dont fully understand your point now when I read it again. What option do you point at. To play a game, make a grand team, solo, not play, pwn orcs? 

You just said you wanted to group, what is stopping you from being social, making some friends, and doing the content in a group? Like everything you said in your post?

The answer is nothing.

 

So your first answer was pointless or just agreed with something I didnt wrote? Im getting quite confused here. So I put my words in a diffrent way. I want more group mechanisms in my mmo, that is why I like them. I see why Turbine are doing what they do with their game and I dont like it. 

 

You still have the option to do everything in your post, even more so now with skirmishes.

The only way to not have new areas only open to highest level players would be for each area to have its own low level, mid-level, and high level areas.  Each of these areas would also have to have their own epic quest lines.  (You could not, under this system, have a Gondorian man have to start outside of Archer, a town he would never have heard of).  Each area would also have to have the same types of appropriately levelled resource nodes.  In other words, each area would have to the "content density" of the original areas.

Now, let us consider what areas the game is expected to provided.  So far, we have Eriador, which has a dozen or so large map areas.  So, the devs would have to create Gondor and Rohan with at least that many areas.  Also, if the devs want to, they could expand the game world to include Northern Mirkwood and points east (Iron Hills, Erebor, Lake-Town).

So, to give everyone the same access to all areas would require Turbine to essentially construct and go public with 3 or 4 entire MMOs at the same time.  That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Hyperbole, And missing the point.

Those jerks at Turbine are gating me from the Grand Stair.  I pay for the game just like everyone else, so I think my 10th level character should be able to do any of the instances I want!  Why does a level 60 have access to more of the game than I do?  We both pay the same money!!!

Also, why does Turbine make my character have to use a weapon when I fight?  There goes Turbine again, forcing their will on me...

Not only that, why do they make me log in in order to play my character?  Now it's exposed... just another linear gameplay WoW copy... Log in... Select a server, select a character, wait for a load screen.  JUST LIKE WOW. 

So tired of the linear gameplay.  Why can't I start at level 60 and work my way to level 1?  Forced progressive play... feh!!!  Why won't they let me play the game the way I want to play it????//????/?????/?/???

They're Nazi's I tell ya!  Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Hyperbole, And missing the point.

Those jerks at Turbine are gating me from the Grand Stair.  I pay for the game just like everyone else, so I think my 10th level character should be able to do any of the instances I want!  Why does a level 60 have access to more of the game than I do?  We both pay the same money!!!

Also, why does Turbine make my character have to use a weapon when I fight?  There goes Turbine again, forcing their will on me...

Not only that, why do they make me log in in order to play my character?  Now it's exposed... just another linear gameplay WoW copy... Log in... Select a server, select a character, wait for a load screen.  JUST LIKE WOW. 

So tired of the linear gameplay.  Why can't I start at level 60 and work my way to level 1?  Forced progressive play... feh!!!  Why won't they let me play the game the way I want to play it????//????/?????/?/???

They're Nazi's I tell ya!  Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!1!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!!!!!

The jerks!

Yeh but only, if its optional.

It's obvious from the upcoming Skirmish system and other developer notes that the future direction of LOTRO is scalable content, from solo player up to 12-man groups. Turbine has already stated that the upcoming Book 9 will be scalable this same way. The upcoming solo-only "super-buff" for the earlier book quests is just a band-aid so that they don't have to revisit the early content just yet, IMO.

Originally posted by Skooma2

The only way to not have new areas only open to highest level players would be for each area to have its own low level, mid-level, and high level areas.

That is not the only way :) A option I would like is that I had the option to create a avatar at max level. That is a option that is good for players, but not so good for Turbine.

Originally posted by dhayes68

You have to wonder what they were thinking when they made an MMO that is so story-centric and story-driven (especially given the wide familiarity of the story) combined with having parts of the map delivered over time and restricted to the highest levels.  It leads to a very linear progression that stratifies the playerbase.

I wonder if this solution will accomplish what it is intended too, or will it further dilute the 'community'.

 

I don't think I'm dumb but this reads like one of those posts where you are trying to sound super smart but not really saying anything.....

I don't want to overly dramatize it, but if there are crucial moments in which developments at large are changing, it is this. Sorta like D-Day for Europe, this is a bit of a water margin for MMOs. Why? Simple: we have seen a huge rise in Soloability, and story is still a relatively fresh and new element in MMOs, and - at least until SWTOR hits - something not yet fully developed. An element in its infancy.

Now what we see is, by and large that more and more people want to decide by themselves whether they want to solo or group in a MMO, something that so far was pre-set by the quests and mobs. This might be a turning point. A first step, in which at the end MMOs generally leave the choice in quests. This is so vital, because story will be the mayor innovative factor in MMOs in the coming decade. The one thing which differs old gen MMOs of "kill 20 of X" from really Role Playing MMOs.

This decision is both logical and regrettable. it is regrettable, because experiencing a story in a group is way more fun and excitement than alone. What is the heroic, triumph, what is the tragedy worth, when no one is there to share the moment with you? I think it cheapens those moments, when you have no one to remember it together. On the other hand, it is logical. I have tried to play the stories VERY meticiously in LOTRO, for one because I liked them a lot, and they are what makes LOTRO other than so many MMOs. The book quests. Its what attaches me to my char, and why in LOTRO unlike other MMOs I have only one really played out char. I am one hero in Middle Earth, feeling connected by the book stories. However, in the later days I too had GREAT difficulties to find people for the book quests, especially the more difficult and demanding ones, those which take a long time and much work. So I came to a point in Book 2 where I was forced to wait or skip. So it is, alas, a necessity, which will make it even more difficult to find people for book quests, because as experience shows, what CAN be soloed WILL be soloed by most. Its a bad circle.

For good or ill, I think this is the margin of a paradigm change.