To Jon Wood - Bravo man well said, well said indeed.

And the popcorn example wasn't a very good one.

Blizzard has always given free popcorn with all their products so far - cause it increases the qualtiy of their games.  Now Blizzard has removed the popcorn and are charging for it extra. 

Thus John - youi are right.  Blizzard is nothing diffrent than all the others.   The point that many are making - is that they thought BLizzard was diffrent.  Cause they have always created games to maximise the player experience.

Now.... lets look at my example of the movies.

If I need to pee during a movie - I go to the WC and I expect it to be free.  I could ofc be charged and deside to hold it till I come home.  After all -Im there for the movie.

  Blizzard has just started charging ppl for desiding to pee during their "movie".  YOu can skip it.... but it will effect the quality of the enjoyment.  Thats just a fact.

Well, everyone I must get back to work so I leave you with this.

Blizzard may very well one day announce they will sell gear, and that day I will /quit.  until then I will continue to gain enjoyment from the conspiracy theorists.

anyway I'm out... remember to pick up your hat at the local grocery store.

edit: typo

Originally posted by jotull

Originally posted by Troneas

 

no it wasnt spot on

 

having a vanity pet improves your experience in the same way for some as having a vanity armor with the exact same stats than the one next to it but looks cooler. status is very important in an mmo.

and my analogy was spot on because popcorn, unlike the special goggles is consistant.

 

just like they can introduce a new vanity pet down the line, the cinema can introduce a new special goggle to replace the old one.

 

Yep I think this has been put into perspective now...this is the sentiment from an MMOfringe devotee...the same website that was formed simply to bash SOE by the Whineass  SWG vet community.  So folks if you are crying about vanity pets you are basically hitching your wagon to Internets  lunitic fringe

let me guess. you ran out of arguments?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Its amazing people are STILL going on with the irrational hyperbole.

 

It shouldn't.  If there's a few things I've come to learn about MMO gamers in general, is they have limitless free time, and an abundance of pent-up nerdrage, which they must share with the world via their fingertips. 

Now, if only they could clue in on how to edit quotes so they don't spam up half a page by replying...

Didn't we just go through all of this recently with Champions Online? What was the outcome of that thread? 

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

Originally posted by Scalebane

 Man so many only want to look at the negative of everything, no wonder nobody is happy around here.

here's the arguement-- they are just selling fluff items, argument against, but but but! they could do this and that and blah blah blah, until they do it i don't really care.  there here comes people --but if we don't cry about it now they will do whatever they want blah blah blah, guess what, they will do whatever they want anyways.

People have been screaming about what companies do with their mmo's for years now and yet no matter how much doom and gloom is spit out, they are still here, these companies will have enough people playing their games, the minority that hate RMT will just have to go back to buying single player games and paying for the extra content from the CE's..shh just don't tell them paying for extra content in a CE is basically like RMT.

What ever happened to the old argument about WoW not having any RMT because they thought it would ruin the game?  I don't care if it's a vanity pet or a max level raid geared character.  IT'S A GAME YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WIN THINGS NOT BUY THEM.  If they want to have vanity pets in the game FINE let me buy it with in game gold or a quest or something, wow.

LOL I can see it now, eventually all you freaks are going to be the only ones left in MMOs.   You're all going to rush to the store, buy the latest AAA at release day, buy the CE, activate your bonus items, buy a max level character, buy all the equipment and items in the game, buy all the achievements, and you'll all simultaneously meet in the center of town and talk about how you won the game on launch day for $6141.95, how epic.

Again, collectors editions are for fans who admire the game, respect the company who made it, are grateful for the experience and enjoyment they get from them.  Not for some crappy gimmick or item key.  And I can assure you that if CEs ever BECAME about item keys and in game rewards, then I would no longer consider buying them.

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

Actually, they are a huge part of Warcraft lore. I was surprised that the new races did not include them.

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

You cannot be serious  you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?

/facepalm

I want every MMO gamer to ask themself this.

Do these two vanity items add MORE to the game buying them through Item shops than if they were gotten ingame through quests and playing experience ? 

You all know the answer to this. 

And then you also realise that BLIzzard has sold out.  They have removed things FROM the gaming experience.  

Blizzard has changed the fundementals of their vision.  THey are now creating things - thinking about MONEY first - then the gamers.  Before ppl liked to think that gamers came first. 

BLizzard of old =  Gamers first - then money

Blizzard / Activision = Money first - then gamers.

Argue it all you like.  It doesn't have to be money first.  It never has been with Blizzard games.  Until now...

Originally posted by masterbbb26

By saying "There is no point in saying anything because the company wont listen and do whatever the hell they want" you think he is the positive one..........And i am negative for saying "if you dont like something it is good to speak up to let your voice be heard and hopefully the corporations will listen"

Are people this delusional??

 

Hey champ...hate to be the little bird of reason taking a dump on your idiocy parade...but I doubt Blizzard puts much value in the opinions of a bunch of bitter nerds whining on some unrelated forum.   You want them to pay attention?  You cancel your account, and list this reason as why.  Not a current subscriber?  Then they more than likely don't give a crap what you think, regardless.   The train will keep on rolling, and your opinion is a penny on the track. 

Originally posted by Bruwin

Originally posted by Troneas

Originally posted by thg7f

Originally posted by Troneas

 

you are completely missing the point jon.

BUT

 paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,

paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session

popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema

etc etc

a better comparison would be:

movie ticket : $10

buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1

you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you. 

besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.

next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...

i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.

 

 

 

No it is you that is missing his point.  He is saying yes there is a potential for all of this, but he still finds it unlikely.  Until it gets a little further along the slope, that getting upset is actually counter-productive to the masses that are mad.

 

edit:

And as far as adding more pets and accessories.  Once again, they did not, do not, and will not ever be game-affecting.  They are called non-combat pets for a reason, they give no stats, they don't let you into special dungeons, or fetch epic gear, they are bop so people wont sell them in game for ridiculous prices.   So if they add 1 pet or 1 million pets the differnce would absolute 0.

 

in-game houses also dont allow you into special dungeons, or have stats, or fetch epic gear.

 

how would you feel to have to buy an rmt house in your mmo?

 

the character and its immediate wears are NOT the only relevant posession in an mmo. the rest of the fluff is there for a reason, and if it werent they wouldnt be trying to sell pets would they?

 

Fluff is there for a reason. Would you care to know that reason? It's really quite simple...

 

People like fluff!

 

That's all there is to it. I know lots and lots of people who enjoy having things for the sake of having them. Status doesn't enter the picture. In wow, I stalked the time lost protodrake for 2 weeks, not because it would raise my status, but because I liked the model, and I think the gold and black coloration is the best combo for that model.

I'm really sorry that it's difficult for you to understand, but people really do enjoy having certain things for the sake of having them.

precisely my point

regardless of why they want them they want them.

now you pay a monthy fee to play and enjoy the game in the same way as the guy next to you.

then the other guy shows up in a new mount, or builds a new house, or has pimp clothes which you can only get by taking your credit card out.

regardless if you want them or not, the notion is that in game items are suddenly not available to all who play; but to those who purchase them seperately.

the feeling of playing a game fades as every time you see a new pet, or new clothes, or whatever  you see or think of $$$ .

then of course as i pointed out there is no knowing of where the line will be drawn. one thing leads to another until finally you find that the RMT player has tons of nice virtual items and you have nothing.

you will claim that that doesnt bother you but it does make you wonder if you are playing the same game as the guy who does buy RMT

Originally posted by Frobner

Argue it all you like.  It doesn't have to be money first.  It never has been with Blizzard games.  Until now...

Yeah, Blizzard always gave away their games for free until now!

Jon Wood there wasn't the need of an article you could have just posted like everyone else even mods post.

You are taking it too lightly you never know what others concerns think can happen or not in the future.

The example of the popcorn doesn't fit a game why? because you are tasting and eating the popcorn because you are hungry or want some "sweets" while watching the movie, as far as I know when your character ingame eats some meat or fish you don't taste what it's eating because it's virtual.

Like others said there are people that like to get every possible pet ingame and blizz will surely add more pets for sale It's obvious they will not waste all this whole time to create a shop with only 2 pets in it that would be stupid. The only way I would accept some of the pets in cash shop would be if the pets would look like bosses/world bosses then yes it would fit because it's something you would never think on getting in game like a baby gruul or magteridon lol.

If fans still think that the cash shop will have only rubbish that is only for show look at CO cash shop and tell me if it only has cosmetics or every single F2P every single one of them has stuff that can help you ingame or making it easier for you cosmetics and fluffs are not something that is bought a lot which shows why every single F2P has stuff that helps and even in many advantage on others.

Ps there's no need for name calling ppl keep it as a discussion wow is not something alive it's just a game don't take it personally.

Cheers.

Originally posted by thg7f

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

You cannot be serious  you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?

 

 

/facepalm

I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.

Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/

Originally posted by Yohanu

Originally posted by thg7f

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

You cannot be serious  you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?

 

 

/facepalm

I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.

Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/

What lore do you enjoy, Mr. Ialreadyhatewowandliketofindreasonstoreaffirmmypreviouslyheldbeliefsusinganythingicanfindevenifitissilly?

Originally posted by Yohanu

I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.

Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/

Warcaft 3 has a great lore but in world of warcraft it is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Yamota

The issue for which most people have, Jon, is something that seem to have eluded you entirely.

In MMORPGs there are two business models. One that wants you to pay a monthly fee and one that wants you to pay for items or other ingame stuff, so called RMTs.

What is slowly happening now, started with Champions Online, is that companies are now trying to do both. They want to both eat the cake (have monthly subscription fee) and have the cake (income from RMTs).

Nice speech about companies having to worry about their bottom lines but the fact is that games, most of games, charged only ONCE for the game and then never again. MMORPGs stretched that by requiring a monthly fee, allegadly for the infrastructure and other costs related to maintaining an MMORPG. But now they want all three, first a one time payment, then a subscription fee and now also RMTs.

Now you may try to convince us that this is "bussiness as usual" (maybe because MMORPG.COM lives on ad money from said companies) but anyone with half a brain realises that if games were profitable before then why do they now all of the sudden require all this extra income? Is it for surviving? Does anyone really think that WoW with its 11 million subscribers (with all the millions coming in every month from those people) are really hurting for money?

No, it is all about greed and about companies that have alot but wants more and more. Which coincidently is one of the reasons for why the world economy is in the state it is. Greed and more greed.

 I completely agree with this guy. One more thing: Seeing John in such a passionte post is indeed a rare sight. Not a signal of passion after the fallen earth review fiasco,or when EQ2 put RMT for exp scrolls and such gameplay-affecting items. But, to say blizzard need the profit as any other enterprise .Hmmm..almost any other. According to john,the indies don't need money for food. They just charge you the subscription to keep the game running. But Blizzard? Poor fellas. They need this new money income. Yeah,now it's for pet's only. It's a constant worry now that games charge for subs+RMT, and every release someone points at that. And the paranoids indeed were crying WOLF when EQ2 came with the initial RMT. Here comes blizzard. How's the kid credibility now?
 

 Thank you John for your well thought out and rational input. 

Originally posted by Stradden

Read Wood: WoW Pets and Boy Who Cried Wolf.

I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.

Originally posted by Euphoryk

Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous.

Again, who cares about how other people spend their money? If Blizzard wants to charge a $100 for a mini Bill Gates pet, people will buy it and you will get to see who has more money than brains. All this does is point out the suckers

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Stradden

Read Wood: WoW Pets and Boy Who Cried Wolf.

 

I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.

Ditto!

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Yohanu

Originally posted by thg7f

Originally posted by Yohanu

 I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)

You cannot be serious  you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?

 

 

/facepalm

I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.

Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/

 

What lore do you enjoy, Mr. Ialreadyhatewowandliketofindreasonstoreaffirmmypreviouslyheldbeliefsusinganythingicanfindevenifitissilly?

Non- combat pets stopped being about the "lore" years and years ago. Where was there a Mechanical Squirrel pet in the lore? How many Harley's were in the games and RPG?