So I come back form a 4 month ban (long story) and started posting on official forum.

One of the threads I start is

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!

I intended to start discussing maturity because the game is supposed to be for "mature people", and it's full of people who call everyone immature kids.

Also, the phrase "wow is full of kids, AoC is mature" has been heard a million times.

But I think it goes to far, caring so much about being mature IS immature, mature people get along fine with kids you know?

ANYWAY. 3 minutes after posting that, here the message I got

Dear SirPaco,

You have received an infraction at Age of Conan Europe Forums.

Reason: Spam
-------
Spamming is posting the same thing several times, or posting without any real content. "Bumping" (posting to move a thread up on the forum list) and cross-posting (posting the same thread in several forums) are examples of spam.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

What about the "hug thread" where everyone gives each other hugs (for 9 PAGES?????) what about the "3 word game" where everyone adds 3 words to previous 3 words posted???? (12 pages)

Now, obviously, questioning moderation on official forums is not tolerated. I don't know if it's tolerated to question another game's moderation on these forums (I didn't read the rules and before you go there, no one reads the rule you know?) but can we maybe discuss this problem?

The main issue is that the moderation is done by volonteers. That means that they are players, do you think it is normal?

I am pissed !

On what underforum did you post? Off topic?

And let me guess; those "hugs" are posted on Off topic right?

Just make sure you post in the right forum also when posting.

Calling the mods "noobs" because one of them banned you is a pretty big sign that we shouldn't be taking you seriously on the topic of maturity.

You might trying sending a PM to Famine on these forums (mmorpg.com) to see if he will look into it. If you want the matter looked into.

I posted in General :)

hug etc threads I spoke about are on Aquilonina and Fury related forum (which is general, but specific to a server)

Also, I didn't get banned, it was first day of posting after a ban! Just got warned, but omg still..

Finally, I won't bother with pm Famine, don't think he can do anything...

About the mods though, since 2 days, they seem to be less active. For months before though, the Fury forum was DEAD because only threads there were either closed down or removed entirely. 

No one wanted or even dared to post anything anymore.

Funcom uses those forums more for propoganda and advertising than information so unless you post positive information expect to be censored.

There is some negative slant on those forums, but considering how disappointing the game is the mods are miracle workers over there at censoring...is even easier now that so many peoples subscriptions ran out and they don't have to deal with new posters.

On a side note....how were you able to deal with subscribing to AOC for 4 months? you lose a bet? ;p

First, what forum were you posting in? Second outside of calling people immature what was your point going to be? It's not a good idea to start your first day back from a long ban, with something some mods would view as flamebaiting. Whether you were or not I can't say. That's for them to decide, but you have to understand where your topic could be viewed in such a way. Especially with how you worded your opening post.

LOL the part that caught my eye was the "SPAM" "No real content" part.I wish developers had to abide by that rule :D

I could come home drunk from a bar and have a more creative mind for content than probably 90% of the developers out there.

As to the topic about maturity.I think the op is taking too much of a defensive stance,yes maturity DOES matter and A LOT at that.It is not an aim towards age at all,one example that comes to mind was when i was playing RFO/RF? i think that's the initials lol,anyhoot i was hanging around with this player for quite a while ,a very mature minded player,no goofing off ,very serious person.I was shocked to find out he was only 14,i was like holy crap,he acted more mature than many adults i have gamed with.

My point is that do not automatically assume someone is relating immaturity to age.Geesh if i had to i could probably post some 50+ people in you tube that shows how extremely immature they are.Immaturity is such a big factor that i quit WOW about 2 days after release when i bought the game,it really bothered me that much.

The VERY little immaturity i witnessed in MANY years of FFXI,was more or less frustration with players than them actually being so immature it bothered me.When i play MMORPG's i have two goals in mind ,to play something relaxing and thoughtful.

I should imagine Funcom is enforcing a strict code of censorship, probably as more and more posters are pointing out the negatives of AoC and fewer are pointing out the positives (Due to the negatives growing with each patch as the positives diminish). As there are more posters being negative (with good reason) they're balancing the forums which is alot easier than say fixing bugs in siege warfare (which after 18 months they've failed to do in my opinion). So just delete enough naughty posts in order that there are more positive ones with a few token disgruntled posts that aren't to inflamitory.

However this is Funcoms right, they may do as they please with their forums and if they want to censor it inorder to make it look like players are happy that's fine. AoC and maturity? I'm sorry but any MMORPG that had the ability for women to get out their boobies, nipples and all was only ever going to go one way, or am I the only one that saw that coming?

As for the topic of maturity, one only has to look at any gaming fourm to see how mature some can be. Look at how people "discuss" things. Then you wonder why gaming communities can seem immature?

Originally posted by SirPaco

One of the threads I start is

---

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!  [/quote]

---

 Can I just check - was the above all that you posted on your opening post ?

If it was I can see why it was deleted - it means nothing and leads to no discussion so shouldn't have been posted in that form.  

If however you continued that opening post with a discussion asking for other players opinions and giving yours its a perfectly valid post imo but should have simply been moved to Off Topic where it belonged rather than general discussion.

Btw having never been banned, but having a couple of guildmates that have - may I suggest its not actually what you post - but how you post it that tends to lead to deleted posts - starting and finishing posts with f***k this and b***r that generally isn't the best start.

Originally posted by finaticd

 

On a side note....how were you able to deal with subscribing to AOC for 4 months? you lose a bet? ;p

I've been playing it steadily for over a year and still love the game :)

And yes, like many companies, they censor their forums A LOT (its why I got banned).

Originally posted by Malickie

First, what forum were you posting in? Second outside of calling people immature what was your point going to be?

First, read my other reply, I answered those 2 questions already.

Second, any sensible mod would have moved the topic to off topic if that was the real  issue.

The point I am making is that the mods are PLAYERS who probably KNOW ME IN GAME lol.

Originally posted by Wizardry

LOL the part that caught my eye was the "SPAM" "No real content" part.I wish developers had to abide by that rule :D

I could come home drunk from a bar and have a more creative mind for content than probably 90% of the developers out there.

As to the topic about maturity.

Funny post :))

About maturity, I would have discussed, if the topic had not been removed ^^

Start a topic here I'll discuss it here if you wish :p I honestly think that most people who are obsessed with maturity are kids trying to act old :))

quite a silly thread and its not the mods job to determine age or gender. However i dislike very much the fact that nazis can hi jack mmorpg at times and mods cant stop it..

bobm111

Originally posted by Agricola1

I should imagine Funcom is enforcing a strict code of censorship, probably as more and more posters are pointing out the negatives of AoC and fewer are pointing out the positives (Due to the negatives growing with each patch as the positives diminish). As there are more posters being negative (with good reason) they're balancing the forums which is alot easier than say fixing bugs in siege warfare (which after 18 months they've failed to do in my opinion). So just delete enough naughty posts in order that there are more positive ones with a few token disgruntled posts that aren't to inflamitory.

This is very true. Even though my post was about maturity and not the game itself, I've seen it happen many times ^^

However I guess they have a right to do that. But I've been wondering, as far as "rights" go, how can a player protect his rights?

I'm not saying it is the case, but lets imagine a Moderator goes bananas and bans you for no reason (again, this is a fictional example), what can you do about it? Is there any legal prescendent? :)

Do people have "rights" in a virtual world?

Originally posted by Solldara

Originally posted by SirPaco

One of the threads I start is

---

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!  [/quote]

---

 Can I just check - was the above all that you posted on your opening post ?

If it was I can see why it was deleted - it means nothing and leads to no discussion so shouldn't have been posted in that form.  

If however you continued that opening post with a discussion asking for other players opinions and giving yours its a perfectly valid post imo but should have simply been moved to Off Topic where it belonged rather than general discussion.

Btw having never been banned, but having a couple of guildmates that have - may I suggest its not actually what you post - but how you post it that tends to lead to deleted posts - starting and finishing posts with f***k this and b***r that generally isn't the best start.

Yup, this was exactly my opening post.

I see nothing wrong with it, I was hoping people would react to do it and take the discussion from there. Can I also say that it was done with a bit of humour (if you didn'r see that).

Again, all the mod had to do was move it to off topic forum if that was the problem.

Btw I know what gets you banned, and most of the time, it's getting warned for what you genuinely consider an unfair reason, then contesting the warning, then being warned again, then raging, then getting banned.

it"s how it happened to me and how it happened to many I know ^^

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

What about the "hug thread" where everyone gives each other hugs (for 9 PAGES?????) what about the "3 word game" where everyone adds 3 words to previous 3 words posted???? (12 pages)

 

Now, obviously, questioning moderation on official forums is not tolerated. I don't know if it's tolerated to question another game's moderation on these forums (I didn't read the rules and before you go there, no one reads the rule you know?) but can we maybe discuss this problem?

 

The main issue is that the moderation is done by volonteers. That means that they are players, do you think it is normal?

 

I am pissed !

My honest opinion on the thread is that I would label it as spam too. So I really don't have any disagreements there in that regard. The general discussion forum has a topic restriction and more so content requirements that haven't been posted a thousand times over and actually can be talked about. That's why you see such threads as the hug one in off-topic.

Questioning moderation is perfectly fine to do in private. You have the right to message the moderator and challenge the infraction. We just rather you not post it on the open forums as a way to get others to rally with you as if we can tell them the full details of why you received the infraction anyways (yes we do keep all your suspensions, bans, and infractions private in the sense we don't tell third parties the details of your issues).

We rarely ban anyone from the forums. We do however have temporary suspensions that are automatic based on the infraction system we have in place. Spamming and flaming are actually super low but over time can be a pain in the ass.

Hope this answers some of your questions. I wouldn't take a spam infraction too seriously. We all flame, troll, and spam sometimes! I know I would be moderated too.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

(()))

I am pissed !

 

My honest opinion on the thread is that I would label it as spam too. So I really don't have any disagreements there in that regard. The general discussion forum has a topic restriction and more so content requirements that haven't been posted a thousand times over and actually can be talked about. That's why you see such threads as the hug one in off-topic.

Questioning moderation is perfectly fine to do in private. You have the right to message the moderator and challenge the infraction. We just rather you not post it on the open forums as a way to get others to rally with you as if we can tell them the full details of why you received the infraction anyways (yes we do keep all your suspensions, bans, and infractions private in the sense we don't tell third parties the details of your issues).

We rarely ban anyone from the forums. We do however have temporary suspensions that are automatic based on the infraction system we have in place. Spamming and flaming are actually super low but over time can be a pain in the ass.

Label it as spam if you want then... what can I do?

See? this is why people WANT to talk about it in public, because obviously in the balance of power, YOU have it all, and the players got none. Bringing it to public, and, as you say getting others to rally with you, is a way of finding a way of excercising pressure.

It's a power game and as long as everything happens "in private" the player got no chance at all.

By the way, I got warned on Test Live and wanted to reply and justify what I posted but was not able to do so?

WIth regards to "private"  contestation, at the time, I tried to do so with Tahitoa many times and got no replies so gave up.

With regards to this particular case (which is not a big issue really, just a 1 point warn for what you consider a spam post), I replied while giving the link to this thread. ... and got no reply :)))

Do you honestly believe that a post like the one I did warranted a 1 point warning? Do you consider it malicious or with having bad intentions? 

Though you rarely permanently ban people (I don't know of any cases) you OFTEN give out temporary suspensions, as was the case with me. I called it ban by mistake "way of tongue" I sohuld have said it was "temporary suspension" :)

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

(()))

I am pissed !

 

 

Label it as spam if you want then... what can I do?

See? this is why people WANT to talk about it in public, because obviously in the balance of power, YOU have it all, and the players got none. Bringing it to public, and, as you say getting others to rally with you, is a way of finding a way of excercising pressure.

It's a power game and as long as everything happens "in private" the player got no chance at all.

By the way, I got warned on Test Live and wanted to reply and justify what I posted but was not able to do so?

WIth regards to "private"  contestation, at the time, I tried to do so with Tahitoa many times and got no replies so gave up.

With regards to this particular case (which is not a big issue really, just a 1 point warn for what you consider a spam post), I replied while giving the link to this thread. ... and got no reply :)))

Do you honestly believe that a post like the one I did warranted a 1 point warning? Do you consider it malicious or with having bad intentions? 

Though you rarely permanently ban people (I don't know of any cases) you OFTEN give out temporary suspensions, as was the case with me. I called it ban by mistake "way of tongue" I sohuld have said it was "temporary suspension" :)

It's a question for the ages really. Why would we have public debates on all infractions in the community? The same would still apply with no matter what the player would always be right and the moderation would be wrong. That is why we try to have a balance system where the rules are very clear for all to understand. 

The question however is if the context is really against any said rule. In example, is this really spam or isn't it? You can really say that about any post in the forums that has been moderated. Is this really a flame or is he or she just joking? We must be fair on all accounts and use the best judgetment we have to issue infractions. Otherwise there would be nothing but pure havoc with people running the streets killing other players with swords and rusty blades!

I've personally overturned dozens of infractions due to mistakes or misunderstanding either from my end (Funcom) or from the other moderators. They happen all the time and most of the time it's due to the player questioning the moderation. No one is perfect and mistakes will happen. That's why I advocate to message your moderator because you do have a worthy chance for a second review even if it ended in a suspension. No one ever gets bad marks for making mistakes on the moderators end.

Hope this helps!

while we are on the subject, and since you're reading this Famine, have a look at these

1. did sieges that were unplayable, lost and got a little pissed off so posted this (february)

I'm not gona rant, and I can't express how pissed off I am.

Why, after all this time waiting (when did the game come out?????)????

Why even after these patches we still can't do the damn sieges which are, you have to admit, one of the main attractions of this game...????

S.O.R.T I.T O.U.T

damn !:mad

result?

Dear SirPaco,

You have received a warning at Age of Conan Europe Forums.

Reason:
-------
Excessive Ranting

Hello

Warning for excessive ranting

Ranting is posting irate and normally non-constructive comments. It's normally used to let out frustration, but also as a form of trolling so please calm down and be considerate when posting on the AoC forums.

Regards

yes it WAS ranting but you make big mistakes in game and dont let your customers express themselves about them in game forums?

got another one for

Hi

12345

Yes it was not constructive, but can you not say hi on forum? And if you can't is it worht warning someone for it? lol

this one is funny

Reason: Flaming/Trolling
-------
Hello

Infraction for flaming and trolling

Quote:
Cazadores de Almas are hijos de putas!!!

they bring level 69s and 70 and gank in kesh omg how bm !

It was spanish guild and we were having a bit of fun. On this subject, how can you allow WTF (which means what the fuck) and not allow hijos de putas (which most people don't understand?)

Got a BIG one for this one

Hey,

I'm not an attention seeker, and I don't care for trolling, flaming or such. (as some people do on the UN-official Fury forum (((which by the way is fun to read)))

But this forum has almost been dead for the past few weeks, and this is supposed to be on one of the most populated servers?

There was quite a bit of activity today, (yes !!! omfg, at least 2 discussions with people replying in the same day!!!!)

Interesting discussion with members of fury interacting and having a bit of fun. I almost started to feel a sense of community.

Obviously, when someone gets his thread deleted, he gets frustrated, but this isn't about me, I honestly couldn't care less.

To be quite polite and respectfull of rules and regulations, I don't give an "intercourse".

But now I understand why hardly anyone bothers to post here anymore. And the unofficial forum, which I thought was a bit silly at first, well I totally understand why it was made.

Why did you delete the thread? You don't want people to know that fury players believe their server is empty?

Go warn me, or even ban me, it just means I'll do more work at the office.

And to the question ---> please send pm, I have a straight answer for you ----> you never answer them

Kind regards etc,
Paco

Then Funcom makes an anniversayr event and gets everyone to go to conan castly. Everyone deos that, in fact there are like 10 instances there full of people waiting and waitinf, then nothing happens and Funcom announces on official forums that they were expecting the anniversayr event to be held organised and run by the players.

Trust me MANY people got warned that day, including me

Reason: Flaming/Trolling
-------
Hello

Infraction for flaming and ranting on the AoC forums

Quote:
MAN, most stupid thing ever

You think all of us are role playuers and gona shoot fireworks with a 8 hour cooldown?

please excuse my flame but this really REALLY sucked

Next one, I was very pissed off but tried using humour

Dear SirPaco,
You have received an infraction at Age of Conan Bulletin Board.

Reason: Excessive Profanities
-------
-------
<Infraction Type>
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaco View Post
OK, you might think all I do is rant and get pissed off, but I do make posts when I appreciate things also.

However this is not, and I mean intercoursing not the case now.

Before the patch, the murder point distribution was pretty much fixed.

Now, lowbie attacks me, he turns red, I kill lowbie, I GET INTERCOURSING MURDER POINTS!!!!

I made a petition in game and have been waiting since it happened now (well playing but you know what I mean) for intercoursing over 5 hours now.

F I V E hours!

So I get this message

Which is nice, and thought it was ok for the FIRST 3 HOURS.

But 5 HOURS of waiting time is taking the urination. This is bull excrement, I'm almost a murderer for defending myself.

I don't think you're average player will stay connected that intercoursing long on a week night.

I hear there's a hotfix coming up soon.

Plz fix this ASA intercoursing P

edit ---->>

GM finally contacted me, here's message :

[Censored|Game Master]: I understand. I'm very sorry for the trouble. Thank you for reporting this issue to us.

last one that got me banned was warranted, I deserved to get banned for it

Originally Posted by SirPaco View Post
You're taking the piss, banning me because of that, I never used a profanity in the post you quoted.

YES I'm questioning moderation in public, YES I think you're an idiot, YES I KNOW I'm a gona get banned again.

NO I can't ****ing believe you used that lame excuse.

While I'm at it, let me show a screenshot of someone exploiting in pvp not caring about it because everyone in AoC uses 3rd party programmes and Funcom don't do a **** for it.

So what you going to ban me for now you ****s?

Take a pick

a) direct insult
b) questioning moderation
c) profanity
d) ranting
e) talking about exploiting in public

bitches you don't deserve any more respect than Tribunal zergers lawl

OK

So you going to ask me why I posted all of these? (and by the way there are a few I did not post because I was in the wrong :) )

To show you how it works.

You get a few warnings, ok whatever. Something gets messed up in game, you get angry about it and want to talk about it on forum, you get warned for it. That"'s where you start getting frustrated and angry. Not only is the game not working, but you can't even express it...

Then it's a vicious circle of frustration and anger which eventually leads to my last post.

And you wonder why there is such a high level of Fucom haters on these forums? Because most probably originally TRIED to be constructive, maybe did one or two mistakes but eventually got shut down.

Censorship and disregard breeds hate, you had it coming.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

(()))

I am pissed !

 

 

Label it as spam if you want then... what can I do?

See? this is why people WANT to talk about it in public, because obviously in the balance of power, YOU have it all, and the players got none. Bringing it to public, and, as you say getting others to rally with you, is a way of finding a way of excercising pressure.

It's a power game and as long as everything happens "in private" the player got no chance at all.

By the way, I got warned on Test Live and wanted to reply and justify what I posted but was not able to do so?

WIth regards to "private"  contestation, at the time, I tried to do so with Tahitoa many times and got no replies so gave up.

 

 

It's a question for the ages really. Why would we have public debates on all infractions in the community? The same would still apply with no matter what the player would always be right and the moderation would be wrong. That is why we try to have a balance system where the rules are very clear for all to understand. 

The question however is if the context is really against any said rule. In example, is this really spam or isn't it? You can really say that about any post in the forums that has been moderated. Is this really a flame or is he or she just joking? We must be fair on all accounts and use the best judgetment we have to issue infractions. Otherwise there would be nothing but pure havoc with people running the streets killing other players with swords and rusty blades!

I've personally overturned dozens of infractions due to mistakes or misunderstanding either from my end (Funcom) or from the other moderators. They happen all the time and most of the time it's due to the player questioning the moderation. No one is perfect and mistakes will happen. That's why I advocate to message your moderator because you do have a worthy chance for a second review even if it ended in a suspension. No one ever gets bad marks for making mistakes on the moderators end.

Hope this helps!

I tried PM many times, no answer and on Test Live you are not ALLOWED to PM the mods, they are entirely DISABLED.

Of course, why would we have a public debate about it, that is pushing it to the extreme, but like I said in my earlier post, your method is breeding much hate. I'm serious, people actually hate you and your mods.

I bet you HAVE over turned dozens of infractions due to mistakes. Your moderators are volonteers from the player base... it means they don't take responsability for Funcom, if they do what you tell them to do and that causes trouble, you can just say they were volonteers, not employees of Funcom ^^

So many people on my server became VERY frustrated at your company for this. We had a server forum which was dead. Seriously, hardly anyone posted anything.

To the other extreme, of course moderation IS necessary, in our case, I have a good example. Someone made a "unofficial" forum which promised NO MODERATION AT ALL. It became very successfull very fast but also got killed very fast by excessive flaming. No one posted there after that eitehr.

So it IS a question of balance, but for the past months, and currently, the balance is towards the Nazzi side of the scale if you ask me.

Originally posted by SirPaco

So you going to ask me why I posted all of these? (and by the way there are a few I did not post because I was in the wrong :) )

To show you how it works.

You get a few warnings, ok whatever. Something gets messed up in game, you get angry about it and want to talk about it on forum, you get warned for it. That"'s where you start getting frustrated and angry. Not only is the game not working, but you can't even express it...

Then it's a vicious circle of frustration and anger which eventually leads to my last post.

And you wonder why there is such a high level of Fucom haters on these forums? Because most probably originally TRIED to be constructive, maybe did one or two mistakes but eventually got shut down.

Censorship and disregard breeds hate, you had it coming.

Yeah it's always the case with forums. It's generally the only outlet to vent off about the game. A lot of people in the industry will agree that if players are happy then they are more than likely not on the forums talking rather than playing. :D

We understand people do get upset and want to vent about it on the forums. Then on top of that, if you're more of ranting guy like I am then you get moderated down to size. It's all typical stuff and very normal stuff. I never read a very long unconstructive rant and automatically put the player on some secret hate list. Yet that doesn't mean it belongs on the forums either.

This is another catch 22 when dealing with feedback in the official forums. How far should we take it until the point that every post is filled with longwinded jibberish hate filled rants on what's totally broken with the game or what we should be focusing on with the next updates before people stop reading the forums? It's a hard one to call because if you enforce constructive posting (i.g: nicer form of rant that has more structure and can be discussed civil) as we do then it makes posting and discussing a bit more accepting to everyone in the community.

I've done lots of research on this myself. I can say a number of communities within the industry are very restricting as well. It's very hard to find the true 'freedom of speech' type outlets where you can vent it all out to the organization. These have really been long gone now but replaced with a more accepting form of communication rulesets like constructive posting and structured suggestions.

In that, we will try to address anything you throw at us on the forums. The more constructive the better because it gives us a better understanding of the problem and a easier approach to addressing it.

Best advice I can give you is not to post. Do you really have to post on the AOC forums? I played for several months and never posted. Dont worry about what other people are doing and just play the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH The Raving Rabbid becomes a 1 man raid against Vistrix...and wins!)

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Best advice I can give you is not to post. Do you really have to post on the AOC forums? I played for several months and never posted. Dont worry about what other people are doing and just play the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH The Raving Rabbid becomes a 1 man raid against Vistrix...and wins!)

That's why I post here because I know you post here RavingRabbid.