http://eveboard.com/pilot/Qual is a perfect example of a 5 year+ old toon that would be beaten in 1 on 1 combat by a 3 month old who focused on combat skills

Anyone who played enough to truely understand eve would see that in very short order as this character is a highly skilled industrial toon , not a combat pilot :) 

My 5 month old logistics pilot has somewhere in the vicinity of  8 million SP more in combat related skills (i.e ones that will influence a fleet battle) than this toon even if its about 112 million SP less in industrial related skills and mining and probably close to 1/1000th of the income earning capacity :)))

This serves as a Perfect example of how you dont need to play for years to be more effective in a specific role than someone who has played 10 times longer and also of just how far you can go with specialisation

That is YEARS of specialised training and he barely scratched the surface when it comes to combat related skills aside from the many other skill areas he barely touched .

EvE is by its very nature a game which you can play the same character for years and *NEVER* have seen it all because the players drive the universe and the storyline ..A key difference between EvE and almost every other MMO on the market is that point , there is no spoon feeding of content in eve and very little hand holding .

Originally posted by adda_nz

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Qual is a perfect example of a 5 year+ old toon that would be beaten in combat by a 3 month old who focused on combat skills

Anyone who played enough to truely understand eve would see that in very short order as this character is a highly skilled industrial toon , not a combat pilot :) 

My 5 month old logistics pilot has somewhere in the vicinity of  8 million SP more in combat related skills (i.e ones that will influence a fleet battle) than this toon even if its about 112 million SP less in industrial related skills and mining and probably close to 1/1000th of the income earning capacity :)))

Perfect example of how you dont need to play for years to be more effective in a specific role than someone who has played 10 times longer .

I am certain on paper you are making a very good point. However, It's really hard to say for certain as I have known some serious EvE players who owned more than one account to maximise their potential, so to speak, within the game. Without knowing everything about the circumstances of a real player in a game you cannot really make a real comparison.

I get realy sad when I read post like this. First off you dont seam to get what EvE is about.

1. Its both a Economic and spaceship battle game. You play EvE against other players. When you talk about the things that you dont like its like complaining you dont think Chess has a good grafics or you dont like that there are black and white squares on the gaming board. EvE is not ment to be FUN, like a themepark adventure, where the makers have planed everything for you.
2. One server one world that is constantly chaninging depending on peoples actions. There is no other MMO like it on the market. 
3. Full loot system, harsh death penealties, Scams and godlike Drama, you can not get this in anny other game on the market today.

In your time playing EvE you kinda missed the hole point of the game. Its not about training times, Its not about sucky mechanics (because they make the game better and better each year, trust me you would have gotten a serious chock if you started playing in 2004 when I began)

THE GAME IS ABOUT PLAYING WITH OTHERS, WITH THEM OR AGAINST THEM. sadly 90% of the MMOS on the market today are SOLO PROJECTS, you dont need anyone to have fun ju can just sit alone at home playing by yourself. WoW, Lotro, AIOn, warhammer, AoC and all the rest are solo games where you level your toon and get items so you can Epen outside the ingame AHs.

Avrage age of EvE players are 27 years its a game for grownups not little kidds. Becausse most little kidds are Impatiant, Attention seekers who just want to go on the next thrillride. Its daddy daddy can I ride that rollercoster please... 

Originally posted by Illyssia

I am certain on paper you are making a very good point. However, It's really hard to say for certain as I have known some serious EvE players who owned more than one account to maximise their potential, so to speak, within the game. Without knowing everything about the circumstances of a real player in a game you cannot really make a real comparison.

My point stands ,

1vs1 a focused combat pilot of only 3-5 months old (6million- 10 million SP) would be at the very least equal in combat as that 123 million SP Industrial juggernaught (many kudos to the owner for using so much self restraint in NOT training many combat skills) .

SP isnt everything , its where you put those SP that count

I'm very sure that a 3 month old could also be a damn sight better at exploration and research than my 1 1/2 year old combat pilots are too :)

I agree serious eve players do tend to run multiple accounts (I run 4 currently) each character specialising in something complimentary to the other accounts .

However thats hardly relevant to the argument that a new player "just cant compete" in eve with older players as its clearly not true..its more a game of using the tools you DO have access to properly , than having more tools

Originally posted by Zlayer77

Avrage age of EvE players are 27 years its a game for grownups not little kidds. Becausse most little kidds are Impatiant, Attention seekers who just want to go on the next thrillride. Its daddy daddy can I ride that rollercoster please... 

 

Nothing wrong with thrillrides aka the Vagabond :))))))

When it's all said and done you have to respect what CCP has done with Eve.

Even if you dislike the game you can't deny the fact that Eve is different and not EQ clone # 10101212.

Give em credit for not creating another EQ clone.

We need more developers like CCP that are willing to think outside the box and add variety to this genre.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

 

Your link is one of the reasons why EVE is such a bad game...

Click on this link: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Qual

Now look at the amount of Level 5 skills, each one takes.. a couple weeks?  And there are what, like 50-100 level 5 skills that you have? 

How is it fair that someone who sits on their ass but keeps a subscription deserves to have such highly ranked skills?  That part makes no sense, and its too bad you EVE fanboys don't know how to respond to that argument.  Because in EvE time Invested is time well spent. and just having a toon with alot of lvl 5 skills wont help you mush, if you had played EvE for any extent of time you would know EVE is about ISK, those who want it, those who have it and those that have to mush... Skill treas are shallow dosent take long to get a Charecter competetive in the field you want to specialize in. Again if you have played the game beyond the trail you would know this... Also In EvE you get rewarded for playing; you get  more ISK, and that is the most important thing in EVE, as you can pay for your sub, get ships, pvp more and enjoy the game more if the bank is full of cash. Skills mean shit if you cant afford to pay for gear.

Do you really think your offline time should count for ANYTHING at all?  

If I ever played EVE I would feel that my character is garbage compared to complete newbies who have maintained a subscription longer, because they will obviously have higher level skills because they've maintained a subscription longer. Hmm realy dont get this at all, first off in about 6months time you would be dangerous in PVP, and if you played actively for those 6 months you would have alot more exprience and ISK then a person just AFK training for a year. He would probably need another 6 months to get the hang of things before he could keep up with you... AFK training is not good... but its usefull if you have to take a break from the game for a few months time. when you come back your charecter has gained rather then fallen behind like in every other mmo out there...

You guys complain that I said EVE sucks, are you really going to argue that it does not suck?  When its skill system is obviously there just for subscription money?  When you don't even have to invest any real time into an MMORPG to gain advancements?  You do know that by playing the game you can actually play for free right? Paying for Plex/gtc have been in the game for years now, so I dont realy see the conection beteween subscription money and training in EvE I realy do not. Second thing is If I played wow in 2004-2007 if I would come back now that toon would be totaly worthless you agree? I could just roll up a new one and level it to max, because all my Items would be outdated etc. So even if I had 150 dayes played it would be worth NOTHING! But if I would have played EvE from 2004-2007 and come back in 2009 that time investment and the money I had put in would still be worth something do you agree?

EVE isn't unpopular because it is difficult, or hard to understand.. EvE is hard my friend its hard on the Psyke, you have to want to have goals! and again little kidds dont have goals they want fun times and rollercosterrides. And EvE is not for kidds.

Most people probably quit because they see the idiotic skill system that favors people who have maintained accounts for very long periods of time.  The sad thing is you don't even need to play EVE at all to have a really good character.  Your skills can be maxxed and you don't have to do anything, as long as you buy the required skills and maintain a subscription long enough, your character can be good without even playing it. But what would be the POINT? Epen..? look at me I have a charecter that has 100m sp and Ive payed hundreads off dollars to train him in a game I never play? You reasoning is kinda strange...

Tell me why anyone should play a game that favors people who just sit on their ass and maintain subscriptions?  At least EQ and WoW and almost every other MMORPG allows people to catch up and play on a level playing field.  EVE is just carebear bullshit that favors people who stay subscribed longer... Im gona lett you in on a little secret, skills are not the End of PvP combat, mods, ships and fitting choise and playing to your strenghts has alot more to do with it then what SKILLS YOU HAVE... again if you had bothered to play the game you would have know this... Skills make up about 30% and equipment another 30% and the last 30% goes to tactics. how you fly the ship has an impact on the damged done and damged recived, so going in stright line towards your target would sustain you alot of damge for example. Smaller ships can hardly get hit by large guns etc etc... But again you havent played the game long enough to understand this...

If you didn't start EVE in the first few months, then there seems like there would not be a point in playing it at all, because other people automatically have better characters (through no effort of their own.) You realy must be dumb, im serious here! Do you even know how the game was back in 2003-2004... man we started with nothing... you had to work your way up from scratch, no jumping to 0m, bookmark was the king of kings, no skillpoints boost like you noobs get today. so train, train, train for weeks without implant helps. MAN I WAS SO GLAD AND PROUD WHEN I GOT INTO MY FIRST CRUISER lol... If you think the game is bad now hahaha.... you wouldent have lasted 20m in the old days...

Seems a bit artificial that they put such long real life limits on those skills as well.  Then they allow offline time?  Is the scam not obvious to you EVE players?  Maybe you've invested so much time (or maintained an account for so long) that you're in denial at this point. IM not paying for my sub mate? how can this be a SCAM? Havent payed for years now as I just get GTC and Plex for the ISK I earn ingame... You realy havent played this game have you...

If CCP abandoned their idiotic time-based skill system I think their game would be a bit more popular and would be taken seriously as an MMORPG.  But for now I consider it in the same class of games as mybrute or travian (wait x units of real life time before you can have this.) THIS IS THE LAST MMORPG... you know what its stands for right MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLLPLAYING GAME... all the new shit is singleplayer orientated with static worlds and your only mission is to grind for new ITEMS, who is getting scamed here exacly? 

 

/agree with the above post totally.

OP if you don't like it go back to Aion.

Originally posted by Eridanix

/agree with the above post totally.

OP if you don't like it go back to Aion.

The OP is a retard, I haven't played EVE and tbh from what I've read, even if I played EVE and thought "hey, this isn't my cup od tea" I wouldn't say it sucks since at least the dev team have come up with a pretty unique game. In fact, if stop playing WAR again I might give EVE a shot.

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 There were many times where I fell asleep while playing. Or I would set auto-pilot to take me somewhere for a Mission, and then I'd go make some food

 

That's your problem.  If you think that running missions is playing Eve your sorely mistaken.  

 

I think he eats his pizza with a fork TBH : 0

I am really curious about one thing, has an EVE player ever gone to the PUB or another forum and started a thread that said this game or that game sux???

I eat my pizza however I damn well please. what are you going to do about it?

 I find it utterly hilarious that EVE players, who are supposedly more grown up and intelligent than 99% of everyone else who plays MMORPG's(simply because they play EVE, no other reason), can't wrap their minds around the fact that perhaps someone doesn't think that the game is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

and no, they haven't gone to another forum and started threads. they just jump into other people's threads and tell everyone that they are a kiddie or a moron because they don't play the Almighty EVE.

stay classy.

Originally posted by metalhead980

When it's all said and done you have to respect what CCP has done with Eve.

Even if you dislike the game you can't deny the fact that Eve is different and not EQ clone # 10101212.

Give em credit for not creating another EQ clone.

We need more developers like CCP that are willing to think outside the box and add variety to this genre.

 

absolutely.

I just disagree with the EVE fanboy notion that any and everyone who doesn't like EVE is a brainless, unintelligent, moron kiddie. and that the only reason anyone could ever possibly dislike the game is due to lack of intelligence.

people like to act as if it takes some monumental amount of rocket-science level intellect to enjoy EVE, and I just don't think that's true. I got the gist of EVE quite quickly just from being able to pay attention to details, and I still did not enjoy it. Perhaps I could have done things a little differently , perhaps I could have went straight to Low-Sec. Perhaps I could have tried to join a Pirate Corp right off the bat. Perhaps I could have done any number of things , and it would have brought me more enjoyment, but I didn't. it is what it is. I don't fault the Game for this, i just didn't really have a lot of fun.

I don't think the game "sucks" like the OP does. I just wasn't entertained sufficiently enough for me to stay. that's all.

Maybe I just don't like the Sci-Fi genre, unless it is a Shooter.

I still maintain that a game with EVE's scope, Universe, game design, and such, but with a Fantasy setting and more twitch-esque combat would be near-perfection.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

Originally posted by metalhead980

When it's all said and done you have to respect what CCP has done with Eve.

Even if you dislike the game you can't deny the fact that Eve is different and not EQ clone # 10101212.

Give em credit for not creating another EQ clone.

We need more developers like CCP that are willing to think outside the box and add variety to this genre.

 

absolutely.

I just disagree with the EVE fanboy notion that any and everyone who doesn't like EVE is a brainless, unintelligent, moron kiddie. and that the only reason anyone could ever possibly dislike the game is due to lack of intelligence.

it smacks of sour grapes because people don't agree with the EVE-worship.

Indeed and until we can get off those dam ships I ain't going back.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

Originally posted by metalhead980

When it's all said and done you have to respect what CCP has done with Eve.

Even if you dislike the game you can't deny the fact that Eve is different and not EQ clone # 10101212.

Give em credit for not creating another EQ clone.

We need more developers like CCP that are willing to think outside the box and add variety to this genre.

 

absolutely.

I just disagree with the EVE fanboy notion that any and everyone who doesn't like EVE is a brainless, unintelligent, moron kiddie. and that the only reason anyone could ever possibly dislike the game is due to lack of intelligence.

it smacks of sour grapes because people don't agree with the EVE-worship.

With that said, you also have to look at the haters that say it sux.  To say the game is crap when it has a loyal fan base and subscriber base and yet because this one person thinks it is crap all People who Play EVE are devoted fanboys that could not play any other game if they tried.

So, I see your point.  Just keep it in mind that when a person makes an offensive statement to another you are going to get some backlash.  I ain't saying EVE is the best game out there.  I am just starting out in it and am finding it intriging at the moment.  Lots of new stuff to learn and paths to follow.

Originally posted by NovaKayne

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

Originally posted by metalhead980

When it's all said and done you have to respect what CCP has done with Eve.

Even if you dislike the game you can't deny the fact that Eve is different and not EQ clone # 10101212.

Give em credit for not creating another EQ clone.

We need more developers like CCP that are willing to think outside the box and add variety to this genre.

 

absolutely.

I just disagree with the EVE fanboy notion that any and everyone who doesn't like EVE is a brainless, unintelligent, moron kiddie. and that the only reason anyone could ever possibly dislike the game is due to lack of intelligence.

it smacks of sour grapes because people don't agree with the EVE-worship.

 

With that said, you also have to look at the haters that say it sux.  To say the game is crap when it has a loyal fan base and subscriber base and yet because this one person thinks it is crap all People who Play EVE are devoted fanboys that could not play any other game if they tried.

 

But its not 1 person.  Its MOST people who try Eve think it sucks.  Maybe not sucks exactly.  They just think its boring.  You REALLY think MOST people who try it STAY past the trial?  C'mon, get real?  However, compare it with say, WOW.  Most people who try WOW probably do stick around for a little while.  Numbers don't lie.   Of course you can say numbers don't mean anything.  But Eve is a boring game for most people and it has NOTHING to do with ones intelligence.

Again, Eve has a loyal fanbase eclipsed by MMOs released in 1998.   Is that supposed to impress anyone now?   EVERY game has a loyal fanbase.  Dark & Light and Horizons have a loyal fan base=)   Heres the thing.  If every response to a critical comment about Eve wasn't met with  "We're more intelligent than YOU" comments, I don't think anyone would care.  But thats the Eve playerbase.   Zealots.

Originally posted by Josher

 

But its not 1 person.  Its MOST people who try Eve think it sucks.  Maybe not sucks exactly.  They just think its boring.  You REALLY think MOST people who try it STAY past the trial?  C'mon, get real?  However, compare it with say, WOW.  Most people who try WOW probably do stick around for a little while.  Numbers don't lie.   Of course you can say numbers don't mean anything.  But Eve is a boring game for most people and it has NOTHING to do with ones intelligence.

Again, Eve has a loyal fanbase eclipsed by MMOs released in 1998.   Is that supposed to impress anyone now?   EVERY game has a loyal fanbase.  Dark & Light and Horizons have a loyal fan base=)   Heres the thing.  If every response to a critical comment about Eve wasn't met with  "We're more intelligent than YOU" comments, I don't think anyone would care.  But thats the Eve playerbase.   Zealots.

Kinda sorta maybe.

There's another way to look at it this. As far as I know, you're correct that EvE has a pretty low rate of new player retention; last I heard, it was about 10%. On the other hand it has an absolutely incredible old player retention: something like 25% of the players who were in at launch are still playing nearly 7 years later. So sure, 90% of those new players leave; the other 10% stay for a long, long time. That's why EvE's subscriber base has grown steadily over time;  the low rate of new subscribers is outweighed by the even lower rate of people leaving. It's actually an EvE-O forum cliche that no-one really leaves - they just try other games for a while.

I think that this is because CCP have stayed pretty much true to their original conception. EvE is what it is, and make no apologies or pretence otherwise. Now this lack of compromise means that a greater number of people than normal will be repelled, but it also means that for those whom it tastes good, it tastes really good. We fucking LOVE it, man, we really do. So there you have your EvE "zealots".

So that's why, when you see threads like this that suggest diluting what makes EvE different, you see furiously hostile responses from the players.

Now which do you think is better for the MMO scene overall: games that are "yeah, pretty good I guess" for 20-30% of the population, or games that are OH FUCK YES THIS IS AWESOME for 10%. I submit that as long as there are a good number of different games, it's better to be able to find that one FUCK YES game and have 4 or 5 Ok, I guess games.

So it's OK that you dont like EvE, it really is. There are hundreds of MMOs that have skillgrinding, level cap, quests for epics, revolve around character advancement and so forth. If that's what you want, then play those and more power to you. But dont try and suggest that the one MMO that doesn't do things this way should change; the EvE players have stayed with the game all these years precisely because it doesn't have those things. That doesn't make us "fanboys", it doesn't make CCP "stupid", and it doesn't mean that "EvE sucks". It makes us players who are committed to playing a game that makes no compromises, developed by a company who are committed to giving it's customers that have made it successful and profitable more of the same.

tl;dr: EvE is GREAT - at being EvE, and that's why we love it.

We cool now?

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

Originally posted by qazyman

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 There were many times where I fell asleep while playing. Or I would set auto-pilot to take me somewhere for a Mission, and then I'd go make some food

 

That's your problem.  If you think that running missions is playing Eve your sorely mistaken.  

 

I think he eats his pizza with a fork TBH : 0

I am really curious about one thing, has an EVE player ever gone to the PUB or another forum and started a thread that said this game or that game sux???

and no, they haven't gone to another forum and started threads.

Thank you for making my point! Exactly!!!!!
 

The only people saying things like this: " EVE players, who are supposedly more grown up and intelligent than 99% of everyone else who plays MMORPG's(simply because they play EVE, no other reason) " are people like you.

You have to say this to justify you bashing.

I have treated the OP with the respect he deserves. He starts a thread saying the game sux's then bash's everyone that say's otherwise. He dosn't deserve to be treated as a normal person with a normal point of view because he is not. He is an attacker and I have treated him that way.

I could care less what game you play and don't think any of the games out there sux, I just think EVE is better!

But then I don't start "this game sux" threads or bash other games on the forums. I'm not the one with a problem here LOL!

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by Josher

 

But its not 1 person.  Its MOST people who try Eve think it sucks.  Maybe not sucks exactly.  They just think its boring.  You REALLY think MOST people who try it STAY past the trial?  C'mon, get real?  However, compare it with say, WOW.  Most people who try WOW probably do stick around for a little while.  Numbers don't lie.   Of course you can say numbers don't mean anything.  But Eve is a boring game for most people and it has NOTHING to do with ones intelligence.

Again, Eve has a loyal fanbase eclipsed by MMOs released in 1998.   Is that supposed to impress anyone now?   EVERY game has a loyal fanbase.  Dark & Light and Horizons have a loyal fan base=)   Heres the thing.  If every response to a critical comment about Eve wasn't met with  "We're more intelligent than YOU" comments, I don't think anyone would care.  But thats the Eve playerbase.   Zealots.

 

Kinda sorta maybe.

There's another way to look at it this. As far as I know, you're correct that EvE has a pretty low rate of new player retention; last I heard, it was about 10%. On the other hand it has an absolutely incredible old player retention: something like 25% of the players who were in at launch are still playing nearly 7 years later. So sure, 90% of those new players leave; the other 10% stay for a long, long time. That's why EvE's subscriber base has grown steadily over time;  the low rate of new subscribers is outweighed by the even lower rate of people leaving. It's actually an EvE-O forum cliche that no-one really leaves - they just try other games for a while.

I think that this is because CCP have stayed pretty much true to their original conception. EvE is what it is, and make no apologies or pretence otherwise. Now this lack of compromise means that a greater number of people than normal will be repelled, but it also means that for those whom it tastes good, it tastes really good. We fucking LOVE it, man, we really do. So there you have your EvE "zealots".

So that's why, when you see threads like this that suggest diluting what makes EvE different, you see furiously hostile responses from the players.

Now which do you think is better for the MMO scene overall: games that are "yeah, pretty good I guess" for 20-30% of the population, or games that are OH FUCK YES THIS IS AWESOME for 10%. I submit that as long as there are a good number of different games, it's better to be able to find that one FUCK YES game and have 4 or 5 Ok, I guess games.

So it's OK that you dont like EvE, it really is. There are hundreds of MMOs that have skillgrinding, level cap, quests for epics, revolve around character advancement and so forth. If that's what you want, then play those and more power to you. But dont try and suggest that the one MMO that doesn't do things this way should change; the EvE players have stayed with the game all these years precisely because it doesn't have those things. That doesn't make us "fanboys", it doesn't make CCP "stupid", and it doesn't mean that "EvE sucks". It makes us players who are committed to playing a game that makes no compromises, developed by a company who are committed to giving it's customers that have made it successful and profitable more of the same.

tl;dr: EvE is GREAT - at being EvE, and that's why we love it.

We cool now?

 

/signed

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Kyleran 

 

Yeah, your brilliant solution is, instead of letting players influence how fast their character progresses, lets FORCE how long they progress.  That way, the people who bought the game on day 1 will always be on top.  People who bought EVE after that have characters that simply aren't as good, there is no way to have as many skills as the original players.

So it levels the playing field by making it so that people who bought it in 2003 will always be 6 years ahead of players who bought it in 2009.  That is great. 

OK, first of all, you are completely off base in this assumption (as so many are) and you don't even realize it.  Every ship (or career for that matter) has a finite number of skills that affect it, and those skills have a finite cap that can be reached in less than 6 months in almost every case.(I have a corp mate flying a Carrier (capital ship) with only 7 months played on that account. (though I question how good he is at flying it, but that's a different matter)

Smaller ships take much less time, and if a player specializes in a certain ship, with in just a few months time they can be flying an assault frigate with devestating effectiveness and could mop the floor with many players with 5+ years in the game, because they chose to focus on mining or industry instead of PVP. 

Being a veteran player means you can fly a much wider variety of ships, but at any one moment you can fly only one, and trust me, somewhere out there is a better pilot who can own your arse.

12-14 hours a day?  Let me tell you about my level of skill.  In my 1 hour of an MMORPG I get as much done as most people do in 4 hours.  I'm not a newbie who just can invest a lot of time into a game, nice try though..Not everyone who complains about a horrible time-based system aren't in that category either.  It's the fact that they can't influence the progression of their own character in any way.

  I'm pretty sure I can advance a character in any game you care to name within 10% of your speed, if not better.  There are finite levels on how fast you can level a character in any game (per hour) and I'm pretty close to max in all games. (unless you are referring to being powerleveled, I don't do that sort of thing)

But what I can't do is play the game more than 2-3 hours a night.  In a game like WOW , it wasn't a real big deal, but in Lineage 2 it was  a backbreaker and I had to drop out.

Other MMORPGS -> Invest time -> Advance your character - Absolutely true, for both character advancement/cash

EVE -> Longer Subscription Time -> More Advancements - Also true, but you do realize there are many things you can do to improve the speed which you advance, however like all games, there is a maximum cap.

And the point is?  That both systems are fine.  You may prefer one over the other, but it doesn't make one superior to the other, just different.

Yeah, leveling your skills isn't the main focus, sure.   Oh wait, you need skills to fly those shipsyou are going to spend your ISK on.  Want a nice ship?  Wait a couple years, until you have all the pre-requisites.  You're always going to be upgrading something so that you can eventually buy something with that ISK.  

Very true statement, 2.5 years in and I'm upgrading my skills this month to fly Marauder class ships (sub capitals) to improve my PVE efficiency, esp in wormholes.  (+100% to large lasers, whoo hoo) But it didn't take me 2.5 years to get here, along the way I trained up skils in pretty much every smaller ship hull for every race in the game. Just finally getting around to the bigger ships, so I think a dreadnaught will be next on the plate.

When I played EVE, the garbage skill system couldn't keep up with my ISK collection.  Sorry I don't want to have to play several years to have a decent character (and still be behind people who bought EVE in 2003.)

You are the exception, earning enough ISK to pay for everything is usually a challenge for most people, even me at this point. (no, 8B ISK just isn't enough for my plans)  Earning ISK is a mini-game in itself for most of us and we strive hard to be more and more effcient at it every month.

Btw, I guarantee that those lineage players, or WoW, or EQ players that you EVE people bash are a lot more skilled than the people who whine about time-investment affecting the progression of their characters. Any skilled person isn't going to be thrilled with a game that puts real-life time limits on skill training, because they think they are better than most people, and wouldn't want to progress at the same rate.  EVE only attracts the lazy player who can't invest any time into their character.  

Now see, you're doing it.  You'll chastise EVE players for talking down to people and saying they aren't as intellegent, but you have no problem classifying EVE players as lazy.  I have friends in EVE with 17 accounts, who play 12-14 hours a day, who tirelessly work to keep major alliances afloat and they are anything but lazy.  What they don't like though, is for their character skill advancement to be the core part of the game.  They'd rather focus on setting up a new station in 0.0, or building a new Titan, or running in a Merc fleet that terrorizes empire space whenever they can. 

You act like MMORPGs require some sort of time investment to get to the top, that is wrong.  Sure, there are initial grinds in EQ, and WoW.  But once you are at the end, you don't spend 12-14 hours a day raiding.  

 More modern MMO's like WOW are pretty easy these days, but it took me 16 days played to get my first Pally to 60.  Later on I got better and got my last character to 60 in 6 days played. 

But then there was the raiding. I used to assemble for raids at 8:00 pm and they would end around midnight on a good night (vanilla wow days) and sometimes at 1 or 2 (or even later if world dragons started spawning)

But games like Lineage 2....i defy you back when it first to come out to reach level 74 w/o a play time like I stated in anything under a year.  And it makes a difference in a PVP game like L2.... when I left I was level 52 after 6 months played, and I was totally destroyed by the level 70's (no 74' s back then) in a caslte siege.  I calculated my rate of advaancment and figured out it was going to take approximately another year to reach 70.  No thanks, not what I was looking for, and I went and played WOW. ( I regret that decision now)

Sorry EVE players don't want to play MMORPGs that require investing more than 5 minutes a week.   Anything more than 5 minutes a week of time investment is unreasonable for an MMORPG.

 I play EVE almost every day (unless I'm playing Aion) and I am very actiive to the limits of my available free time.  Over this past weekend one of our wormholes stations came under attack on Friday around 6 pm and I stayed up until 7 am the next morning in order to get out of my wormhole, fit a PVP battleship, and fly 32 hops through empire including 12 in lowsec, then hung around to bombard the enemies POS into reinforced mode before going to bed.  Sunday evening at 10l:30 pm I was back to help finish off the enemy POS since they had decided to give up the attack on our station.

You can call me lazy all you want, but you are wrong, i just don't care to spend my time leveling up my character. (OK, I'm lying; I do like to do that sometimes which is why I also play Aion)

 you know what? to hell with it.

5th time is the charm. maybe.

I'm gonna set EVE's client to download while I am at work. then I'm gonna go for the 14-day trial..again(unless there is a larger trial out there). *If* my connection can handle it (running Mobile Broadband for now, I'll be upgrading to Cable Modem within the next few months)

and this time, rather than just jumping in and flying around aimlessly looking for fun stuff to do. I'm gonna ask for some help. 

Obviously There is fun somewhere in EVE, and I've just been unable to find it. So I'm gonna ask you guys to do something that generally isn't done in this forum. Rather than telling me I am not intelligent enough and writing me off as a "kiddie" or whatever, do this:

Meet me ingame. Show me where the fun is. Don't "hold my hand", give me isk, or anything like that, but just show me some examples of what is so awesome and great about this game. give me an impromtu tour of cool shit. hell, just talk to me about it, and we'll take it from there. Tell (and show) me what I've been doing wrong that has led to me not enjoying the game.

I'll come back to this thread when I get home, to see if anyone is willing to take me up on this, and to tell you what race I decided to create, and my name, and so forth.

and then at the end of my 14 days, I'll come back to this thread, and give my updated thoughts on the game after finally "doing it right".

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by Kyleran 

 

 

You act like MMORPGs require some sort of time investment to get to the top, that is wrong.  Sure, there are initial grinds in EQ, and WoW.  But once you are at the end, you don't spend 12-14 hours a day raiding.  

 More modern MMO's like WOW are pretty easy these days, but it took me 16 days played to get my first Pally to 60.  Later on I got better and got my last character to 60 in 6 days played. 

But then there was the raiding. I used to assemble for raids at 8:00 pm and they would end around midnight on a good night (vanilla wow days) and sometimes at 1 or 2 (or even later if world dragons started spawning)

But games like Lineage 2....i defy you back when it first to come out to reach level 74 w/o a play time like I stated in anything under a year.  And it makes a difference in a PVP game like L2.... when I left I was level 52 after 6 months played, and I was totally destroyed by the level 70's (no 74' s back then) in a caslte siege.  I calculated my rate of advaancment and figured out it was going to take approximately another year to reach 70.  No thanks, not what I was looking for, and I went and played WOW. ( I regret that decision now)

 

 @Ginkeq  you can and do spend 12-14 hours raiding. Some of the new raids (UL25, TOC25) can take forever. Not to mention if your guild is still learning the strats and gearing out (like ours is) All MMO's take a time investment. EvE is no different. Sure, you can queue all your skills for a week and log off, but who the hell wants to do that? You can also log into WoW, run the H daily for 30 minutes, get your badges and honor and log off, but again, not everybody does that. Its not that EVE sucks because you have the option of being totally casual, its that its different than EQ or WoW and it fits the play style of a certain community. I though EVE was interesting when I checked it out, but ultimately not for me.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 you know what? to hell with it.

5th time is the charm. maybe.

I'm gonna set EVE's client to download while I am at work. then I'm gonna go for the 14-day trial..again(unless there is a larger trial out there). *If* my connection can handle it (running Mobile Broadband for now, I'll be upgrading to Cable Modem within the next few months)

and this time, rather than just jumping in and flying around aimlessly looking for fun stuff to do. I'm gonna ask for some help. 

Obviously There is fun somewhere in EVE, and I've just been unable to find it. So I'm gonna ask you guys to do something that generally isn't done in this forum. Rather than telling me I am not intelligent enough and writing me off as a "kiddie" or whatever, do this:

Meet me ingame. Show me where the fun is. Don't "hold my hand", give me isk, or anything like that, but just show me some examples of what is so awesome and great about this game. give me an impromtu tour of cool shit. hell, just talk to me about it, and we'll take it from there. Tell (and show) me what I've been doing wrong that has led to me not enjoying the game.

I'll come back to this thread when I get home, to see if anyone is willing to take me up on this, and to tell you what race I decided to create, and my name, and so forth.

and then at the end of my 14 days, I'll come back to this thread, and give my updated thoughts on the game after finally "doing it right".

Hit me up in-game if you're EU TZ

Originally posted by Malcanis

tl;dr: EvE is GREAT - at being EvE, and that's why we love it.

We cool now?

 

Totally.  I would never expect Eve to change.  Never suggested it.  Well, back in beta I suggested a lot to them, like a better UI, more interactive flight control(100X faster), more direction and story, better missions, more interesting crafting and mining, an actual tutorial, better ship customization graphically, more POI's and interesting things to see, a more interactive and varied environment, usable avatars and space stations to walk around in like Earth and Beyond, less travel time...basically everything that would make the game more user friendly and inviting, but that wasn't CCP's goal.   They wanted it confusing to be honest or they just have no clue how to make their game intuitive.  But it works for what it is.   It just wasn't for me and I knew it within minutes.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Malcanis

tl;dr: EvE is GREAT - at being EvE, and that's why we love it.

We cool now?

 

Totally.  I would never expect Eve to change.  Never suggested it.  Well, back in beta I suggested a lot to them, like a better UI, more interactive flight control(100X faster), more direction and story, better missions, more interesting crafting and mining, an actual tutorial, better ship customization graphically, more POI's and interesting things to see, a more interactive and varied environment, usable avatars and space stations to walk around in like Earth and Beyond, less travel time...basically everything that would make the game more user friendly and inviting, but that wasn't CCP's goal.   They wanted it confusing to be honest or they just have no clue how to make their game intuitive.  But it works for what it is.   It just wasn't for me and I knew it within minutes.

Heh funny enough... CCP have done or are about to release most of the stuff on your list. Mining will stay boring though :O)

Originally posted by Cephus404 

Same here. I even posted a list of things I hated about EvE and nobody has ever responded to any of them. They have insulted my intelligence however, but apparently none of these people can read and/or think about what's wrong with the game.

Go figure.

Now, you do understand, many of your complaints are simply how the game is designed, therefore its sort of hard to respond to them since they are simply statements of facts vs your personal gameplay preferences.  Not really possible to tell you that you are "wrong" for not enjoying a certain set of features or gameplay.

I played EvE for a while, hoping it would get better and it never did.  I think EvE is a collection of all the things I hate about an MMO.

1.  I hate PvP and especially detest ganking.  EvE not only permits ganking, the whole economy is based on it.  People have to keep losing ships or the entire economy would collapse.

What can I say, EVE is all about the PVP, and ganking is not only permitted, its encouraged since the PVP involves real risk vs reward.  Its more important in EVE to win than to have a fair fight.  If you don't care for this sort of world, EVE isn't for you, nothing will change this.  That said, many people survive and prosper in EVE w/o every getting ganked, or doing any PVP.  PVP is possible, even probable, but if you fly smart, you can avoid the worst of it. (not sure why anyone would want to, and hell, I'm a carebear)

2.  I hate not being able to get out of the ship with a passion.  I don't want to play a ship. -

I personally don't understand this, but you are certainly not alone in this preference.  Hopefully when ambulation comes it will make some folks happy, but I'm guessing there's other things about EVE you don't like that won't be wiped away by having an avatar.

3.  It really is a screensaver.  Most systems are extremely limited.  You've got a station or two and an asteroid field or two.  Otherwise, everything is just eye-candy.  Ooh, look at all the planets and moons you can never explore!

Well, they're working on this with the new DUST514 console game where you'll actually land on the planets in EVE and take control of them and its supposed to have some sort impact on the main EVE game.  We'll have to see how that goes.  There's so much more to a system than what meets your eye by the way, but you have to train up skills in exploration to find the various hacker sites, mining locations and wormholes that lead to W-Space.  And the next expansion in December is going to let players start being able to improve their systems and resources, making them really worth defending.  Again, jury is still out on what this really brings. As for being a screensaver, nonsense, go into battle with 200 other ships and see how much sitting around watching the fish float that you'll be doing.

4.  The travel system is just boring.  I don't want to spend all my time going somewhere, the fun isn't in the long, boring, monotonous journey, it's in actually arriving somewhere and doing something.  You spend far more time going somewhere than you ever do doing anything.

This is true to some extent.  Its part of the strategic element of the game and you have to plan your pve and pvp activities carefully to minimize it and use it to your tactical advantage.  But you know, few players realize the importance of training up skills (and  fitting modules)  which reduce the time it takes to align your ship. increases the speed which your ship warps through a system and the fact certain ships are much faster to travel in.

For instance, average ship travels at a warp factor of 3.  Shuttles travel at a factor of 6, and couple that with a 600kpm speed, make them great for afk warping long distances.  But..... Blockade running Industrial ships warp at a factor of 9, can warp while cloaked, and few ships outside of interceptors (which can be jacked up to like warp 12 I believe) can catch them.  I've got a ceptor fitted out to Warp 10 and i can really cover some ground quickly if I need to.

So don't assume travel time is a useless time sink, it serves a purpose and it is part of the core gameplay.

5.  The training system is ridiculous, but for the same reason a lot of training systems are.  You can spend your day mining and be training non-mining skills.  In fact, you can spend all your time raising skills you've never once used.  Seems ridiculous.

And I suppose wacking a tree 10000 times makes a lot of sense to raise your ax skill? (outside of a crafting purpose of course).  There's nothing realistic about training systems, we don't go to mage school to learn magic spells, so why not make it painless and just one of the many challenges a game throws at you. 

6.  I can honestly say I was never impressed by any of the corps when I was playing.  I never had any real interest in joining up with any of them, but without joining, you're pretty much toast when you're forced to fly through low-sec space and the pile of gankers hanging around the gates waiting to pick people off show up.  That's jst not fun.

Since you never joined any, you have no idea what you might have missed. I've been in at least 8-10 corps in my time at EVE (some corps are starting to think I'm a merc spy) and I just haven't quite found what I'm looking for. (perhaps because my goals keep changing, and few corps can specialize in every areas of EVE,  so I move around a lot)

That's not necessarily saying that EvE is a bad game, it's simply not one that I have any interest whatsoever in playing, any more than I'd play *ANY* game that had a similar set of characteristics I hated.

And of course, you are perfectly within your right to feel this way.  You have preferences, so do I, and we'll each play the games that cater to them.  I don't care for WOW, doesn't make it "suck", just means it has gameplay that isn't appealing to me for a variety of reasons.

I might post negatively about some features in WOW if someone starts a thread, (particularly  if it says "WOW is greatest game ever") but what you won't see me do is create a new thread that says, "WOW Sucks" because it just isn't true.

I tried my best to address your points the best that I can, but truth is, most of what you say is valid and I can understand why you might not care for it.

Originally posted by Zlayer77

I get realy sad when I read post like this. First off you dont seam to get what EvE is about.

1. Its both a Economic and spaceship battle game. You play EvE against other players. When you talk about the things that you dont like its like complaining you dont think Chess has a good grafics or you dont like that there are black and white squares on the gaming board. EvE is not ment to be FUN, like a themepark adventure, where the makers have planed everything for you.
2. One server one world that is constantly chaninging depending on peoples actions. There is no other MMO like it on the market. 
3. Full loot system, harsh death penealties, Scams and godlike Drama, you can not get this in anny other game on the market today.

In your time playing EvE you kinda missed the hole point of the game. Its not about training times, Its not about sucky mechanics (because they make the game better and better each year, trust me you would have gotten a serious chock if you started playing in 2004 when I began)

THE GAME IS ABOUT PLAYING WITH OTHERS, WITH THEM OR AGAINST THEM. sadly 90% of the MMOS on the market today are SOLO PROJECTS, you dont need anyone to have fun ju can just sit alone at home playing by yourself. WoW, Lotro, AIOn, warhammer, AoC and all the rest are solo games where you level your toon and get items so you can Epen outside the ingame AHs.

Avrage age of EvE players are 27 years its a game for grownups not little kidds. Becausse most little kidds are Impatiant, Attention seekers who just want to go on the next thrillride. Its daddy daddy can I ride that rollercoster please... 

 

The average age of WOW players is 28. Here is the info: http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001365.php. And I quote

"the average age of the WoW player is 28.3 (SD = 8.4)"

I guess WOW has a more mature audience, and WOW is MUCH better in getting players from this age group.