This is really getting old.  The people of the US do not want this, but it still comes up on the ballot to vote on. 

Give it a rest already.

 Domestic Partnership is fine, but not Marriage.

Maine had one of the better written Gay Marriage bills.  It was a lot closer then California's who had a worse version.  I still think the best way around most of this is just taking the symantics out of it.  If they changed the word they used for this type of union at the state level, you would atleast get a bit more people in favor of it.

Originally posted by Cleffy

Maine had one of the better written Gay Marriage bills.  It was a lot closer then California's who had a worse version.  I still think the best way around most of this is just taking the symantics out of it.  If they changed the word they used for this type of union at the state level, you would atleast get a bit more people in favor of it.

I agree.  Keep the term marriage out of it and they will get allot further. 

Gay marriage has now lost in 31 states where it has been put to a popular vote.

Sounds to me like people are acting like a bunch of 12 year olds because they don't want to share a word.

They seem to want separate but equal......hmmm where have I heard that before...

Sabiancym, what I said isn't seperate but equal.  Its simply equal.  In the eyes of the State, all marriages would be considered something like a Civil Union despite if its a straight marriage or not.  This would leave marriage which comes predominantly from religion as a religious word.

This is probably the dumbest conversation I've ever heard.

Let's give them marriage, but not call it marriage. It's like trying to keep sex a secret from kids. They're still going to have sex, they're just gonna call it something and not realize that they're actually having sex.

It's the same thing here. You're insisting that we not call it marriage, even though it would have the same rights and responsibilities as marriage,  becuase it would make you feel better.

At first it seems that I'm just picking nits here, we call don't call war "mass murder" even though the two terms mean roughly the same thing for instance, but I seriously can't find any justification for adding a term to the lexicon just becuase it earmarks homosexuality.

Or am I missing the point? Is the idea to keep homosexuals seperate and alienated from mainstream society? Is the idea to make it a point of seperating and alienating homosexuals from mainstream society? Is the term "civil union" meant to remind homosexuals that they are not, and will never be a part, of the larger society while re-enforcing in heterosexuals the strange otherness of homosexuals?

I'm venturnig to guess that the answer to all of those questions is yes.

As Maine repeals the change to the statue that allowed for same sex marriage I am left wondering was Jesus was a hippie that hated homosexuals?  The same Maine voters that repealed this change to the law of same sex marriage and passes expanding medical marijuana use.  I heard that they will be teaching this to our children in their schools!

How can people vote on what others should do in their private life? What gives people the right to tell others what to do when they don't want to be told what to do themselves? How can we be the land of the free when we get to vote on what people do in their private lives? How can you be a conservative when you vote to put restrictions on other peoples personal business?

Originally posted by Briansho

How can people vote on what others should do in their private life? What gives people the right to tell others what to do when they don't want to be told what to do themselves? How can we be the land of the free when we get to vote on what people do in their private lives? How can you be a conservative when you vote to put restrictions on other peoples personal business?

.... and deny them the same rights as married heterosexual couples.  I often find that many are the same people that tout indivdual "freedom and liberty"; I guess what they really mean is as long as your are not gay.  Formal religion does not own the rights to the term "marriage" and there is a difference between a marriage ordained by the church and a secular marriage.  The double standard supported by the "people" on this issue is laughable.

Originally posted by Briansho

How can people vote on what others should do in their private life? What gives people the right to tell others what to do when they don't want to be told what to do themselves? How can we be the land of the free when we get to vote on what people do in their private lives? How can you be a conservative when you vote to put restrictions on other peoples personal business?

I would say that the main problem is, as almost always the case, one of socialism. If we allow gay marraige, then private business owners will be forced to accept it even if it goes against their religion. They will have to pay for spousal insurance coverage and things like that.

there is no such thing as private life under socialism -- that is one of the inherent contradictions in the non-libertarian viewpoint. All private life has an economic component and all economic life involved personal choice.

Now personally of course, I support gay marriage, but not forcing business owners to insure anyone.

However I see the main problem as one of where people, no matter what they choose "privately," eventually use the power of the state to pay for it.

We see the same problem with abortion and socialized medicine, and illegal immigrants. No matter how you try to stop it eventually government money is going to go to these things.

Socialism always ends up making the private public.

10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is "Wrong"

1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can’t marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

---

Seriously people, get over it.  I have never seen so many people turn SO chickenshit and SO hateful as they do when overcome by homophobia. If god has a problem with homosexuality, then why in the hell did he make so many people gay?  One day people will look at debates on the gay marriage issue the same way we look back at debates about whether or not the earth was flat.  Although there are some backwards-ass people in here that probably still think the earth IS flat so never mind....

In my experience the people that are the most freaked out by homosexuality are the ones with their own gender identity issues.  You aren't in the throes of a homosexual panic, are you OP?

For god's sake, gay people deserve the same rights as heterosexuals.  And yes, even calling it by a different NAME qualifies as "separate but equal."  If you don't like it, tough shit.  No one said living in a democracy was easy.

But this post was about how people are democratically rejecting gay marriage, Enkindu (remember I favor gay marriage, just arguing against the point you made at the end).

Originally posted by Fishermage

But this post was about how people are democratically rejecting gay marriage, Enkindu (remember I favor gay marriage, just arguing against the point you made at the end).

Point taken.

I would argue that outlawing gay marriage is unconstitutional and should never show up on a ballot in the first place.

But yes, I know all too well that people can and do vote for unmitigated disaster.  Hell we had to bear the horror and embarrassment of the shrub for 8 years.

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Cleffy

Maine had one of the better written Gay Marriage bills.  It was a lot closer then California's who had a worse version.  I still think the best way around most of this is just taking the symantics out of it.  If they changed the word they used for this type of union at the state level, you would atleast get a bit more people in favor of it.

I agree.  Keep the term marriage out of it and they will get allot further. 

Gay marriage has now lost in 31 states where it has been put to a popular vote.

Ok First.

Make Marriage a Meaning less title handed out by the Church.

Second.

Make EVERYONE get Civil Unions through the state. Make it Between 2 Concenting Adults only. No Crazy things like Kids can get married with Parent Consent...

If were supposed to Have seperation of Church and state like so many liberals on these boards want us to Belive this is the only answer.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Cleffy

Maine had one of the better written Gay Marriage bills.  It was a lot closer then California's who had a worse version.  I still think the best way around most of this is just taking the symantics out of it.  If they changed the word they used for this type of union at the state level, you would atleast get a bit more people in favor of it.

I agree.  Keep the term marriage out of it and they will get allot further. 

Gay marriage has now lost in 31 states where it has been put to a popular vote.

 

Ok First.

Make Marriage a Meaning less title handed out by the Church.

Second.

Make EVERYONE get Civil Unions through the state. Make it Between 2 Concenting Adults only. No Crazy things like Kids can get married with Parent Consent...

If were supposed to Have seperation of Church and state like so many liberals on these boards want us to Belive this is the only answer.

Actually that's a good point.

From my point of view Marriage is a legal contract anyway, so any religious concerns were superfluous from square one.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Originally posted by outfctrl

Originally posted by Cleffy

Maine had one of the better written Gay Marriage bills.  It was a lot closer then California's who had a worse version.  I still think the best way around most of this is just taking the symantics out of it.  If they changed the word they used for this type of union at the state level, you would atleast get a bit more people in favor of it.

I agree.  Keep the term marriage out of it and they will get allot further. 

Gay marriage has now lost in 31 states where it has been put to a popular vote.

 

Ok First.

Make Marriage a Meaning less title handed out by the Church.

Second.

Make EVERYONE get Civil Unions through the state. Make it Between 2 Concenting Adults only. No Crazy things like Kids can get married with Parent Consent...

If were supposed to Have seperation of Church and state like so many liberals on these boards want us to Belive this is the only answer.

Actually that's a good point.

From my point of view Marriage is a legal contract anyway, so any religious concerns were superfluous from square one.

Thats the main Problem for Most people in America. Most of those that want gay marrige want it for Legal reasons. Most that Dont, Dont want it for Religious ones. Split them and all will be better VERRY Quickly. Sure there will be a few assholes on both sides But the Majority will agree with what I posted.

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

 
 I wonder if the opposition showed this video outside polling areas .Hehe.

  *(warning sensitive adult content)*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4LnfkdJDM

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

 

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

Also a world wherein limitation of disease, increased lifespan, improvements in infant mortality, and increased availability of high quality food can quickly lead to overpopulation.

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

Good thing not everyone is gay then (and by the way being gay doesn't limit procreation).

Interesting you bring up this BS argument because I have always thought that homosexuality was a genetic switch that is thrown during development by some environmental cue related to population density.  My reasoning is pretty straightforward: you give humans sex drive to ensure procreation, but every natural system needs a safety valve to prevent overpopulation.  Can't turn off the sex drive because it is too strong.. so mother nature enables the homosexuality gene.  I wonder if a real study has ever been done correlating homosexuality rates with population density...

 Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

This whole paragraph is stupid and insulting.  People who are gay do not make a "choice" to be gay.  They are born that way.  The rest of the crap... bestiality, incest... that stuff is wrong for very real reasons.  If you are trying to have sex with your cat please see a therapist soon.  Your cat will need a therapist too.

 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

I have VERY strong social standards.  They do not include hating people because of the way god made them.  Neo-monarchism???  WHAT are you smokin!!!!  Sounds like you'd be down with bringing back the inquisition and witch trials too.

Leave your cat alone.

And go see a psychiatrist.

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt?

I have to say the cat would be rather sore.

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

 

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

 

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

 

Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

Shall we ban those who choose not to have kids or have vesectomies too?  After all, a world with 100% people who don't want to have children is doomed. 

I had a hard time coming up with a comparison to your original post due to the extreme moronitude (had to make up a new word) of it. 

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt?

I have to say the cat would be rather sore.

 

I think your Over estamating his Dongle Size.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

 

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

Also a world wherein limitation of disease, increased lifespan, improvements in infant mortality, and increased availability of high quality food can quickly lead to overpopulation.

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

Good thing not everyone is gay then (and by the way being gay doesn't limit procreation).

Interesting you bring up this BS argument because I have always thought that homosexuality was a genetic switch that is thrown during development by some environmental cue related to population density.  My reasoning is pretty straightforward: you give humans sex drive to ensure procreation, but every natural system needs a safety valve to prevent overpopulation.  Can't turn off the sex drive because it is too strong.. so mother nature enables the homosexuality gene.  I wonder if a real study has ever been done correlating homosexuality rates with population density...

 Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

This whole paragraph is stupid and insulting.  People who are gay do not make a "choice" to be gay.  They are born that way.  The rest of the crap... bestiality, incest... that stuff is wrong for very real reasons.  If you are trying to have sex with your cat please see a therapist soon.  Your cat will need a therapist too.

 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

I have VERY strong social standards.  They do not include hating people because of the way god made them.  Neo-monarchism???  WHAT are you smokin!!!!  Sounds like you'd be down with bringing back the inquisition and witch trials too.

Leave your cat alone.

And go see a psychiatrist.

 

I choose to be straight, rather than choosing to be gay. I choose to be straight as there are no reasons to be gay. I wish to complete my purpose by having a natural family and continue my lineage so I choose to be straight. If I identified that I needed to be gay in order to complete my purpose, then I would choose to be gay. Saying that we don't have a choice in the matter is saying we don't have freewill. Sexuality is not a lightswitch: unlike you race  and gender, sexuality is a choice that you make. There is no essential reason to not be gay, however, so there is no pressing need for homosexuals to re-choose to heterosexuality except for the laws of our nation.

Neo-monarchism is a term I just invented meaning the return to classical monarchies of the past, a statement I firmly endorse. I'd enjoy bringing back the Spanish Inquisition. It would be completely unexpected. :D

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

 

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

 

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

 

Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

 

 

Shall we ban those who choose not to have kids or have vesectomies too?  After all, a world with 100% people who don't want to have children is doomed. 

 

 

 

I had a hard time coming up with a comparison to your original post due to the extreme moronitude (had to make up a new word) of it. 

 

I say yes. If we have to brainwash people with religion to create nuclear families, then I say we brainwash people with religion. It's a worthy tool to control people since it can't be disproven ^^

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by zchmrkenhoff

Heterosexuality > Homosexuality

 

A world populated with 100% heterosexuals is a world where reproduction happens, the nuclear family exists and the forces of nature work properly and efficiently.

Also a world wherein limitation of disease, increased lifespan, improvements in infant mortality, and increased availability of high quality food can quickly lead to overpopulation.

A world populated with 100% homosexuals is a world where humanity dies after that generation dies.

Good thing not everyone is gay then (and by the way being gay doesn't limit procreation).

Interesting you bring up this BS argument because I have always thought that homosexuality was a genetic switch that is thrown during development by some environmental cue related to population density.  My reasoning is pretty straightforward: you give humans sex drive to ensure procreation, but every natural system needs a safety valve to prevent overpopulation.  Can't turn off the sex drive because it is too strong.. so mother nature enables the homosexuality gene.  I wonder if a real study has ever been done correlating homosexuality rates with population density...

 Homosexuality is only pardoned in the present time as we're not experiencing underpopulation and what not. In my opinion, the proto-anarchy that American has been becoming since the late 60's, anybody should be able to do whatever they want and really give a meaning to a free country. Sure, let's let people marry the same sex, their dog, their mom, whatever they want, who cares! Anarchy! If I want to go home and have sexual relations with my cat, who cares! Is anybody getting hurt? Is it wrong? 

This whole paragraph is stupid and insulting.  People who are gay do not make a "choice" to be gay.  They are born that way.  The rest of the crap... bestiality, incest... that stuff is wrong for very real reasons.  If you are trying to have sex with your cat please see a therapist soon.  Your cat will need a therapist too.

 

Yes. You live in a society. A society is supposed to be a united place with common morals and social standards that are followed by everybody for the betterment of that society and individual moral growth. Go ahead, marry your brother, dog, or same-sex co-worker. You will only contribute to the inevitable demise of America by total social and moral anarchy and will further encourage neo-monarchism and a return to the strong societies of the past that I personally see as superior in so many ways to this.

I have VERY strong social standards.  They do not include hating people because of the way god made them.  Neo-monarchism???  WHAT are you smokin!!!!  Sounds like you'd be down with bringing back the inquisition and witch trials too.

Leave your cat alone.

And go see a psychiatrist.

 

Additionally, you mention God. If that be the case of your belief and you believe God made people homosexual, I can't really argue with you anymore on account of faith.