Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by comerb

You have to look no farther than the title of this thread to understand why Eve players quickly turn to insults.  It's one thing to say "I don't like this game because..."  its another things to say "this game sucks because..."

But it's not just this thread, EvE players turn to insults in virtually every thread where anyone treats the game like it isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.  This is hardly a new occurence.   Like it or not, there are a lot of EvE players who come off like cult members.

every game has its fanboys, EVE isnt so different.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Malcanis

Imagine someone who had only ever known of one game in his life, and that game was American football. For him, the word "game" is synonomous with kicking a ball, with both sides having an equal number of players on the pitch, with all players able to access any part of the pitch (albeit with restrictions on permitted movement), with significant body contact, with a rectangular pitch that has goals at the opposing narrow ends, with a playtime of around an hour.

Now if that person one day encountered rugby football, he might be intrigued by the differences, but it would certainly be an activity he would recognise as a game. All of its basic concepts would be essentially familiar. He might even be excited to discover that there is a whole world of these games - not just American football, but Rugby League, Rugby Union, Gaelic Football, Australian Rules football. To him, these would all be different, but they would all be games.

Then, one day, someone takes him to watch a cricket match. (Or Baseball. Or Golf)

Great analogy.  The key difference being that a cricket, baseball, or golf fan will quickly relate to the person discrete ways the game is fun.  Whereas with EVE, all we get are these analogies and "you just don't get it", which frustrates the issue considerably.

"In short, if I posted that "LoTRO sucks because there's no FFA PVP and you can't get full loot, and my account got banned because I tricked someone fair and square and scammed him out of his magic sword, and oh god I wish all these RP dudes would stfu about this Tollkeen dude or whatever his name is, who cares about all these stupid NPC storylines, I just want to PvP and claim some resources and maybe build a fortune trading on the market with my other account" then you'd be perfectly within your rights to tell me that I didn't get LoTRO, and that I should gb2EvE. You wouldn't be an "asshat" for doing so, you'd just be speaking the plain truth."

The difference being that nobody "doesn't get it" with LOTR.  Whether it's your preferred game type or not, everyone at least sees how the game can be fun.  Not so with EVE.

*shrug* Judging by the furious posts about other games, it seems like plenty of people don't completely "get" them too. And if, as you say, EvE is the most commonly misunderstood game then that could also be evidence that it is qualitively different. 

EvE is fun because what you do in the game actually matters to all the other people in it, so I feel truly involved in the game.

EvE is fun because what everyone else does in the game matters to me, so I actually care about whate they're doing.

EvE is fun because it's astonishingly complex - there's never that "been there, done it all" feeling for me, even after 3 years.

EvE is fun because the PvP is "for real"; when you lose, you actually lose. The corollary being that when you win, you actually win. The first time I actually jumped out of hi-sec, I was literally shaking with excitement and fear. No game has ever come remotely close to providing that level of intensity. Whenever you see anyone trotting out that tired old "spreadsheets in space" line, you can be very sure they've never seriously fought other players in EvE.

EvE is fun because you can actually acheive something there; I'm in an alliance that has carved out a chunk of 0.0 for us, we've defended it, claimed sovreignty, invested in it. It's a piece of the map that's ours, in a way that could never happen in games like WoW and LOTRO.

(It certainly isn't fun because of the god-awful NPC experience. I await the day that CCP completely reworks ratting and missioning like a fundamentalist awaits the Rapture - with more faith than expectation)

The fact is a very large number of people do play EvE, so you can infer that there is something there for people, unless you're going to postulate that it's some kind of giant internet practical joke. I've heard plenty of people say that they simply cannot comprehend how watching or playing Cricket could be fun too, but the indisputable fact is that millions of people do enjoy it.

I suspect that people like you and the OP simply dont care about having the buttons that EvE pushes pushed, much like WoW leaves me utterly cold. And you know that's fine. You dont have to like it. But it would be nice if you and the OP and others like you stopped slating it for not being something it's never pretended to be. I dont go around whining about the crushingly restricted options for player interaction in WoW - to me that game barely deserves the title of "MMO" for that reason alone - I just accept that millions of people like the gameplay style it offers, and avoid it myself.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by Axehilt

 

*shrug* Judging by the furious posts about other games, it seems like plenty of people don't completely "get" them too. And if, as you say, EvE is the most commonly misunderstood game then that could also be evidence that it is qualitively different. 

EvE is fun because what you do in the game actually matters to all the other people in it, so I feel truly involved in the game.

EvE is fun because what everyone else does in the game matters to me, so I actually care about whate they're doing.

EvE is fun because it's astonishingly complex - there's never that "been there, done it all" feeling for me, even after 3 years.

EvE is fun because the PvP is "for real"; when you lose, you actually lose. The corollary being that when you win, you actually win. The first time I actually jumped out of hi-sec, I was literally shaking with excitement and fear. No game has ever come remotely close to providing that level of intensity. Whenever you see anyone trotting out that tired old "spreadsheets in space" line, you can be very sure they've never seriously fought other players in EvE.

EvE is fun because you can actually acheive something there; I'm in an alliance that has carved out a chunk of 0.0 for us, we've defended it, claimed sovreignty, invested in it. It's a piece of the map that's ours, in a way that could never happen in games like WoW and LOTRO.

(It certainly isn't fun because of the god-awful NPC experience. I await the day that CCP completely reworks ratting and missioning like a fundamentalist awaits the Rapture - with more faith than expectation)

The fact is a very large number of people do play EvE, so you can infer that there is something there for people, unless you're going to postulate that it's some kind of giant internet practical joke. I've heard plenty of people say that they simply cannot comprehend how watching or playing Cricket could be fun too, but the indisputable fact is that millions of people do enjoy it.

I suspect that people like you and the OP simply dont care about having the buttons that EvE pushes pushed, much like WoW leaves me utterly cold. And you know that's fine. You dont have to like it. But it would be nice if you and the OP and others like you stopped slating it for not being something it's never pretended to be. I dont go around whining about the crushingly restricted options for player interaction in WoW - to me that game barely deserves the title of "MMO" for that reason alone - I just accept that millions of people like the gameplay style it offers, and avoid it myself.

Excellent post! All I could see was someone saying this game sux’s and bashing everyone that tried to say anything different. I just couldn’t bring myself to take it seriously. My hat’s off to you M8

Originally posted by qazyman

 

 

Excellent post! All I could see was someone saying this game sux’s and bashing everyone that tried to say anything different. I just couldn’t bring myself to take it seriously. My hat’s off to you M8

*09:52:33 Malcanis is attemtping to warp scramble your hat

Malcanis>10M ransom or the hat gets it!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online

I'd be curious to hear awesome and excellent reviews from people who've just started the game and decided to stick with it. Lots of veterans say its great, but they've got the whole game figured out, the cash to buy the ships they enjoy and the gear to win in PvP. I want to hear from the guy who doesn't have all that stuff, isn't in a corp, get's beat down to zero ISK regularly, and proclaims loudly the awesomeness of EVEs starter area because s/he's on her sixth attempt at rebuilding his/er character.

I really think much of the problem between haters and fanbois is that the game is entirely different for someone that has played a year (or more) and someone that is just trying to start out. I think if you find, or fall into, or hang on the twelve months necessary to make the requirements into one of those awesome corps, its probably a great game. If you're one of the fodder that gets chewed up by them, not so much.

Originally posted by whpsh

I'd be curious to hear awesome and excellent reviews from people who've just started the game and decided to stick with it. Lots of veterans say its great, but they've got the whole game figured out, the cash to buy the ships they enjoy and the gear to win in PvP. I want to hear from the guy who doesn't have all that stuff, isn't in a corp, get's beat down to zero ISK regularly, and proclaims loudly the awesomeness of EVEs starter area because s/he's on her sixth attempt at rebuilding his/er character.

I really think much of the problem between haters and fanbois is that the game is entirely different for someone that has played a year (or more) and someone that is just trying to start out. I think if you find, or fall into, or hang on the twelve months necessary to make the requirements into one of those awesome corps, its probably a great game. If you're one of the fodder that gets chewed up by them, not so much.

 

When I started playing eve in 2004 there were 5k online average. Now what is it? 40k average?  This game is not for everyone but its been rolling down a hill like a snowball since its inception.

all I mean to say by this is there are plenty who like it.

And if you dont have a corp or isk to replace the ships you loose then you're playing the game wrong.

Basically the eve players falls into two camps

pvp player with alts for every need

pve player who tries to make a life in a pvp world.

Originally posted by whpsh

I'd be curious to hear awesome and excellent reviews from people who've just started the game and decided to stick with it. Lots of veterans say its great, but they've got the whole game figured out, the cash to buy the ships they enjoy and the gear to win in PvP. I want to hear from the guy who doesn't have all that stuff, isn't in a corp, get's beat down to zero ISK regularly, and proclaims loudly the awesomeness of EVEs starter area because s/he's on her sixth attempt at rebuilding his/er character.

I really think much of the problem between haters and fanbois is that the game is entirely different for someone that has played a year (or more) and someone that is just trying to start out. I think if you find, or fall into, or hang on the twelve months necessary to make the requirements into one of those awesome corps, its probably a great game. If you're one of the fodder that gets chewed up by them, not so much.

 

Maybe I could get one of my buddies to post here.

He's been playing three weeks and flies a tech 1 frigate (rifter) with us all the time.

his first week of playing He mission ran solo for a couple days and built up enough isk for about ten pvp fit rifters (about 400k isk each) And joined the Minmatar FW.

He logged in and whenever someone started a fleet he would toss up an "X" in FW chat and go to low sec with them.

By his second week he left FW with a good amount of pvp experience and joined my Corp.

I made a post a couple of days ago about flying in a 20+ stealth bomber fleet with a few tacklers, he was one of the tacklers.

That's a three week newb flying with 30-100 million SP pilots and having a great time.

He wasn't forced to grind up skills for months before he could do this, he didnt only mission run expecting Eve to have an imaginary endgame that he could power level to like the OP.

In Eve you set your skill train and make the best with what you have.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by metalhead980

Eve would suck so much with an active skill system. Imagine needing to shoot a lazer a million freaking times to upgrade that skill? Or taking enough EM damage to armor to raise that resist?

Op what your asking of Eve would destroy the game.

I understand your deal, You want to have an advantage in game over casuals  because you can log in most of the day. EQ has you thinking Time played equals win.

In EQ you would log in over what 15 hours a day? level up super fast and have a massive advantage over all the people that had lives.

Roaming around owning people with your super hardcore guild in EQ was just as Ezmode as a person playing WoW on a pve server.

I'm sorry but thats freaking carebear shit.

You don't get Eve because you want it to be EQ.

EQ still exists go play it and stop trolling a game you know next to nothing about.

 

 

Is EVE the only MMORPG you've ever played, that you have this shallow a viewpoint of the potential ways the skill system could be improved?  Here are some methods with just 20 secs of thought put into them:

 

XP Investment style.   Doing stuff gets you SP.  Spend SP on skills.

Because then I would be forced to actually do sometype of repetitive skill grind.

Class Style.  Predefined classes exist.  Doing stuff gets you XP.  Leveling up gives you a predetermined set of skills based on your class.   (Alternatively, you choose 10 skills that gain significant amounts of SP each time you level - often ranking up each time you level.)

So you want eve to turn into a bunch of shitty levels? no thanks.

Purchase style.  Skills just cost money.  Naturally many of them are expensive enough that it takes many weeks/months of playing to afford them (or much shorter if you're particularly money-savvy.)

Yes lets give players that can play all day an advantage, dont we have enough mmos like that?

 

You're dumb to continually insist he wants an "advantage over the casuals".  This is purely about wanting a connection between one's actions and one's advancement.  Even in games that are totally not about progression your actions often translate into a score.

Eve is different, The op is pissed because he decided to be a mission runner, raised standings hardcore and didnt have the SP to fly the ship for those missions. Well to fucking bad because Eve is not about power leveling. He thinks he should have an advatage because he can play all day and in Eve everyone affects everyone else. So yes he wants an advantage over casuals.

Even an EVE fanatic like yourself would probably concede that the solitary actions of a non-corp-aligned pilot are utterly meaningless -- more meaningless than actions in perhaps any other game. :P

Everyone matters, even the lone Npc corp mission runner and miner due to the way the market works.

Your just another player that doesn't understand. You bitch about the skill system. Well that time based system keeps eve from being a shitty meaningless skill grind. I play enough games where I grind up Xp and place skill points, Eve is different.

I don;t want to log in and my one and only goal is raising my Laser damage or hitting that next skill level so i can distribute points. I want to log in and just play the way I want. Do a bit of pvp, exploration and maybe even a mission.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by metalhead980

Eve would suck so much with an active skill system. Imagine needing to shoot a lazer a million freaking times to upgrade that skill? Or taking enough EM damage to armor to raise that resist?

Op what your asking of Eve would destroy the game.

I understand your deal, You want to have an advantage in game over casuals  because you can log in most of the day. EQ has you thinking Time played equals win.

In EQ you would log in over what 15 hours a day? level up super fast and have a massive advantage over all the people that had lives.

Roaming around owning people with your super hardcore guild in EQ was just as Ezmode as a person playing WoW on a pve server.

I'm sorry but thats freaking carebear shit.

You don't get Eve because you want it to be EQ.

EQ still exists go play it and stop trolling a game you know next to nothing about.

 

 

EVE should just require some effort in terms of leveling skills up.  How would requiring that destroy the game?  Do you really think the fact that skills level up while offline makes any sense?  What's the point in an MMORPG that you don't have to play? 

You understand my deal?  I work, I can't play all day.  But when I do play an MMORPG, I want to actually have one where I have to play it and invest time in it.  In EVE I would just be waiting around for the sluggish skill system to catch up to me.  Sorry the dumb EVE developers couldn't foresee someone progressing through their content faster than 1 skill-up per week.   I had enough ISK to afford like 10 of the ships I couldn't even fly because of the time requirements.  How is that fun?  Think I want to fly a newb ship around?  Keep my account for a year or so maybe, and I will be at the same level as those casuals who barely log in and actually play the game.

EQ is better than EVE.  In EQ, you log in and you actually play the game.  You explore new zones, and level up, and you don't gain levels while being offline.  You actually have to put some effort into leveling.  In EVE it doesn't matter.  It's the ultimate carebear, casual game.  All they care about is how long you have a subscription to their game, they don't even care if you play it.  It's the ultimate scam.

So you're saying people who like MMORPGs that require time investments don't have lives now?  Yeah, some people like games they invest things into.  Unlike EVE, other MMORPGs require that players invest some PLAYED TIME rather than OFFLINE TIME.  At least playing other MMORPGs I affect the rate at which I can progress.  

WTF am I gonna do with EVE?  Keep a subscription for 2 years and get skills I want, then after 2 years I will log on and play it for a week to get enough ISK to buy what I want and actually be able to use it.  

Sorry Carebear EVE doesn't support hardcore players like me.  It supports people who put in a couple minutes every day, maybe that is their audience.  Apparently you can't continuously play MMORPGs, playing an MMORPG 2-3 hours per day would be totally messed up according to CCP.  EVE players only play 5 minutes per week maybe, do a quest, set up queue, log off.  

Don't even try to compare the Zek servers to the carebear EVE game.  On my server, you'd be lucky to pull off a raid without having someone on another team drop trains on you.  

Unlike EVE, the server I played had PvP everywhere, it doesn't matter what zone you are in.  You can make a level 1 character and someone will kill you right inside of town, and just grief you for hours.  

Think you EVE people have it rough?  Insurance? Lol..  Think there is insurance in EQ? No.   If your raid gets trained, come back in a week.  I guess EVE people dont understand raids, because they just like doing meaningless kill this pirate quests over and over.

EVE just doesn't offer a level playing field.  You never have a chance to catch up to people who have always had accounts, their skill queue has been going for several years now.  Good luck catching up with that.  Think they had any skill to do that? No.  They just had a subscription for a long time.   At least in other games you can catch up.  

Cheap subscription scam..  The game wasn't even fun when I played it.  All you do is run ISK missions.  There probably isn't anything like a raid in that game either.  What do people look forward to?  Having some skill train in as little as 2 years?

Sorry you EVE people don't want to play an MMORPG that requires some actual effort and time investment.  You choose an easy MMORPG that just requires offline time and then try and pass it off as being a hardcore MMORPG that the rest of us can't understand. 

Everything I highlighted proves you know shit about Eve online.

Your never being able to catch up, insurance and Raid complaint show how much of an inexperienced eve player you are.

It's simple you want to "WIN" eve through hardcore play and that's not how Eve works.

Originally posted by whpsh

I'd be curious to hear awesome and excellent reviews from people who've just started the game and decided to stick with it. Lots of veterans say its great, but they've got the whole game figured out, the cash to buy the ships they enjoy and the gear to win in PvP. I want to hear from the guy who doesn't have all that stuff, isn't in a corp, get's beat down to zero ISK regularly, and proclaims loudly the awesomeness of EVEs starter area because s/he's on her sixth attempt at rebuilding his/er character.

I really think much of the problem between haters and fanbois is that the game is entirely different for someone that has played a year (or more) and someone that is just trying to start out. I think if you find, or fall into, or hang on the twelve months necessary to make the requirements into one of those awesome corps, its probably a great game. If you're one of the fodder that gets chewed up by them, not so much.

 

I can tell you for an absolute fact that EvE is much easier on new players than it was when I started playing. And I thought EvE was awesome from day 1. I didn't waste any time at all fretting that every other player was more capable and powerful than me. I was too busy revelling in the immensity and complexity, enjoying learning new stuff every time I logged in, making friends and enemies, building my assets and knowledge and skills.

Here is a short list of ways that EvE is easier on new players than when I started in september 06:

(1) Multiple CONCORD buffs

(2) Salvage - with a few easy skills this hugely increases even a very new player's earning power

(3) LP store: learning implants are considerably cheaper and more widely available, also increases the earning potential from missioning.

(4) Player organisations that exist specifically to help new players like EvE university and Agony Unleashed are widely advertised

(5) 100% training boost up to 1.6M SP; I started out with 60k SP or so and no boost.

(6) Basic Learning Skills only need to be trained to level 4 and then you can train the advanced learnings, so newer players can more quickly get to optimal SP/hr. This makes a big difference

(7) 2 free Stat respecs for new players. Again, this makes a HUGE difference to the rate of skill advancement early on.

(8) Much higher empire population meaning that there is a more developed market, both for buying and selling. New players can more easily and cheaply buy things, and get better prices for the stuffs they sell.

(9) The Tutorial has been hugely expanded, and the starter mission arc will leave the new player with several ships and millions of ISK.

(10) ...well I think you get the idea. there are more but the list is long enough already: New players have a whole rack of huge advantages compared to those who started 3  years ago. Small wonder that veteran players are somewhat impatient with the unfounded assertion that "EvE is too hard on new players". EvE is hard on new players who try and play it as something it's not, always has been and hopefully always will be.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Lol...

I listed a bunch of facts about EVE and now I don't understand the game?

EVE isn't even a tough game to learn.. What do you have to do besides search for missions then hit autopilot.  Hit a couple buttons to turn your weapons on then go shopping?

What is it I don't get?  Figuring out how long you need to train skills before you can fly the ship you want?  Maybe figuring out the 5 different pre-requisites that are required for a skill, then waiting a couple of months offline while your character magically skill ups.

I'm stupid because I don't like the skill system?  Really?  At least I can see through why EVE has a time-based skill system.  God forbid players ever accumulated the skills they wanted, then they realize that there is nothing to do in EVE.  If their skill queue finished in EVE, they would just sell their character.  I'm sure someone would buy a character just for their skill queue which could take several years of playing to obtain.

Tell me how you "casuals" who don't even play MMORPGs at all deserve to have better skills than someone who puts in time and actually plays a game? 

EVE 

 -> 1 minutes per week -> x skills

 -> 1 week straight -> x skills

I guess EVE is good if you fall into the 1 minute per week category.  But then why even play an MMORPG if that is how often you are going to play it. 

EVE is bad because you can't influence your character by playing it.  You just run these meaningless quests (which are the same) for ISK all day.  Well you can buy ISK online I bet..  No control over your skill training rate, online or offline.

You act like EVE isn't linear.. get real.  You are going to just do quests over and over.  Get Mission -> Complete Mission -> Get Isk -> Repeat.  Is that somehow non-linear now?  Just because there are 5 trillion of the same quest in EVE doesn't mean it is any different.  

Does EVE even have PvE Raiding?  Or do you just mindlessly collect ISK all day while you wait 1  year to fly a decent ship.  I wasn't sure what to do in EVE besides the bland missions of killing pirates and rescuing people or delivering stuff...

EQ and WoW are just way better though, at least there wasn't any quests in EQ, and WoW didn't overdo quests to the extend EVE did.  I could actually level to 60 in EQ and WoW in a reasonable amount of time.. Tell me how people who play 1 minute per week for a year deserve to have a much stronger character than someone who puts in a couple hours a week for a month?  

EVE is just a cheap browser based time-sink game, they want subscription money so that is the only reason for those idiotic time limits

 

This is a classic example of what I was talking about earlier. You are explicitly, in your own words, trying to play EvE as "WoW in space".

"What do you have to do besides search for missions then hit autopilot. Hit a couple buttons to turn your weapons on then go shopping?"

"EVE is bad because you can't influence your character by playing it."

"Does EVE even have PvE Raiding? Or do you just mindlessly collect ISK all day while you wait 1 year to fly a decent ship. I wasn't sure what to do in EVE besides the bland missions of killing pirates and rescuing people or delivering stuff..."

Let's be explicit: EvE completely fails at being the kind of game you are trying to play. What you're failing at is understanding that it's trying to be a different kind of game altogether.

In your own words: "What is it I don't get?". This is what you dont get: In WoW, character advancement, gaining epics and gold are the game. That's what you play WoW to do: gain levels, get gear.

In EvE, skills and equipment are merely tools to achieve your goals. The PvE content is very poor; no-one's disputing that. You will never, ever in a million years understand or enjoy the game unless you understand that this is because of one fundamental fact:

THE PLAYERS ARE THE CONTENT

This was one reason I never tried EVE. I did not like the idea that time subscribed has an effect on your character in the game. I prefer games where time played is the only thing affects your character, not just time subscribed.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Even an EVE fanatic like yourself would probably concede that the solitary actions of a non-corp-aligned pilot are utterly meaningless -- more meaningless than actions in perhaps any other game. :P

I have so many posts to respond to, but I'll start with your's since its the shortest.

Last week a corp mate of mine took a transport ship into Jita (major trade hub) filled with about 2.5 billion ISK in sleeper loot.  He got one shotted by a lone Tempest who used his alt account to pick up the loot. (fortunately, most of it was destroyed, but the victor did walk away with about 350M ISK, so he made a decent profit)

That loss actually hurt.  Not severely, though I've flown with people who've been sucided ganked for up to 6B ISK, and trust me, no one wants to lose that sort of loot.

No, one person can make a impact in EVE, no matter what their affiliation.

But I will grant, you should join a corporation / alliance if you really want to be able to influence the EVE universe, heck, its possible for you to take over all of free space.  Few games outside of DF or Shadowbane offer that sort of opportunity to control the game world.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

This was one reason I never tried EVE. I did not like the idea that time subscribed has an effect on your character in the game. I prefer games where time played is the only thing affects your character, not just time subscribed.

 

 

Oh hey, thanks for another short  one, and segues right into one of the OP's main complaints.

See, I take a totally different viewpoint, I think MMORPG's greatest failing as a genre is the design that rewards players who play more than others.  I think time subscribed is an excellent way to level the playing field and EVE's system does exactly that. 

Sure, the OP doesn't care for it, he sounds like a Lineage 2 player btw, and some of those folks had no problem playing 12-14 hours a day to get to the top.  I'm afraid my lifestyle doesn't pemrit that sort of time committment and I'm sure glad there's a game that doesn't relegate me to 2nd class citizenship simply because I can't play it all the time.

I can understand why you and the OP wouldn't care for that design, that's fine, its just a different philosphy and while a valid reason not to like playing EVE, it doesn't translate to... EVE sucks!!!

Leveling your skills isn't a core focus of EVE, earning the ISK to pay for ships that you will eventually have blown out from under you is the design focus, and while its possible to avoid PVP for the most part, the world is entirely designed to support the model. 

But that will be discussed in another post.

The only reason you don't like Eve is because you don't have the intelligence to play it.  Why not just admit the truth and move on.

A few points.... A lot of the negative threads about EVE are made by people who simply don't understand the concepts and don' t take the time to learn them.

The grind in Eve is an isk grind not a skills grind, OP take note.

Other than that it is the same as any other game, it can not please all the people all the time, in other words

It is OK if you don't like it!!! Just find something you like, simple.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

The only reason you don't like Eve is because you don't have the intelligence to play it.  Why not just admit the truth and move on.

Doesn't take any more intelligence to play this game than anything else on the market it just takes the common sense to pay attention to the tutorial so you know what your doing.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by Ozmodan

The only reason you don't like Eve is because you don't have the intelligence to play it.  Why not just admit the truth and move on.

 

Doesn't take any more intelligence to play this game than anything else on the market it just takes the common sense to pay attention to the tutorial so you know what your doing.

I don't agree. The tutorial only scratches the surface of the main 3 paths you can take within EVE. It doesn't even get anywhere in depth in any of it however. I never knew how to probe, I had to figure that out on my own and yes it does take some kind of intelligence. Hell I'll bet half the trolls on this thread didn't even know about it or can't even do it. Research and Invention is another thing I had to find out a little bit on my own and I still have yet to explore it even just a little bit. Combat goes beyond just flying in circles and firing weapons, there is a bit of navigation involved that resembles something like fighting with naval ships in water, again, another aspect of the game that takes a while to learn about and perfect not taught in tutorial. Fittings is also half the game and learning about the proper fittings to get the job done also takes a bit of research and time.

This game may not reward the time  you invest into the game, however it does reward proper strategy and knowledge. Knowing what your doing is more important than the skills you have. It's definitely not a game for everyone and it is a bit slower paced. And for the people that say there isn't much to do in this game, tell me what can you do in all the other games.

Take WoW for example, you also just sit there, make money and farm instances for gear. Once you hit level 80, there is no more progression in terms of your skill and it takes most people about 1-2 months to get there. All the progression is left is farming gear and usually in instances that are rehashes of old instances that have already been released, look at the latest ToC was pretty much rehashed version of VH which is a rehashed version of BM.

At least in EVE, I'm not restricted to just combat and a subpar crafting system, I can do combat, crafting, trade, politics, scamming and stealing (I'm sure there's more but I don't have the time to think of every single thing). You could argue you can do those things in other MMORPG's, but EVE provides more depth into each of those things than most other MMORPG's. The economy is the most complex to date as far as I know in any MMORPG. It also provides more potential for the future and it has been long for about as long as WoW and does still leave things to be excited for unlike woW with its announcement in Cataclysm which sounds like more of a cheap trick to rake in more cash before they finish their next MMORPG project. 

Ultimately, I think EVE is just misunderstood (and its slow pace isn't suited for everybody) and most people that have to use over-top-comments to try and make it look bad obviously haven't even given it much of a chance and are probably better off not playing EVE. The community is one of the best I have experienced and I would hate for it to be tainted by the likes of the OP. I'm sorry its a sandbox, you have to actually think for yourself to determine what you want to do and if all you do was autopilot and get blown up, then maybe you should stick to less intelligent games ;) Theres plenty to do and a lot of it gets missed because of people's shortsightedness. 

Originally posted by tvalentine

 

every game has its fanboys, EVE isnt so different.

EvE's just tend to be more vocal and fanatical than most, at least IMO.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by tvalentine

 

every game has its fanboys, EVE isnt so different.

EvE's just tend to be more vocal and fanatical than most, at least IMO.

And every game has it Trolls, Eve is no different.

Eve's Trolls just tend to be more vocal and their hate seems greater(due to their ignorance no doubt) than most, at least IMO.

 honestly man...I tried to get into EvE.

I've tried it at least 4 times. I mean really, really tried it. and I just couldn't get into it. To me, it was boring.  not "too hard" or "too smart" or "requiring too much intellect", just not entertaining.

a MMO should hook you within the first few weeks you play it, and EVE just never did that for me. There were many times where I fell asleep while playing. Or I would set auto-pilot to take me somewhere for a Mission, and then I'd go make some food. I have honestly had more fun in the 2 days I've been playing Free Realms than I did in WEEKS of playing EVE. 

I'm not saying EVE is a bad, horrible game. It isn't. It's quite good, well designed, and polished. You can see the quality and the appeal of EVE, for certain people. It's just not the type of game for everyone. I'm just saying it was boring, TO ME.

It may be God's Gift to Gaming to everyone else, and that's fine. I disagree, however, with the blanket generic "the game is too intelligent for you" responses that EVE fanboys parrot anytime someone doesn't like their game. it is a load of elitist crap.

EVE isn't horribly difficult. It merely requires paying attention. That's not that hard and doesn't require the brain of a rocket scientist. so please quit acting as if it does. EVE isn't for everyone, I'll agree with that. But placing this artificial wall of "intelligence" that determines whether EVE is for you or not is stupid. Not liking the Game doesn't necessarily mean you are not intelligent, contrary to what the average EVE fanboy will tell you. It merely means you didn't enjoy the game. I don't understand how EVE fans with their vastly superior Intellect (compared to everyone who doesn't play EVE) don't seem to be capable of considering this.

that said, for me, EVE isn't very fun. and by "isn't very fun" I don't mean "it's too hard" or "I don't understand it", I mean "it's boring." If there were any specific things I could point out that makes the game boring to me...it'd probably be the flight system and the combat system. I understand that Mining is 'sposed to be boring...but the Combat bored me too, and that shouldn't happen.

If I could get EVE Online-style sandbox with real-time movement and combat(i.e. not Point and Click), it'd be pretty awesome.

I dunno, maybe I just don't have the patience to wait a few months to build up to the point where I can start having fun. maybe I'll give it one more shot sometime down the road, and this time just go straight to low sec or 0.0 from the get go instead of staying in high sec until I build up my skills enough to be able to survive out there. and perhaps I'll find more fun that way.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

If I could get EVE Online with real-time movement and combat(i.e. not Point and Click), it'd be pretty awesome.

That is the thing that surprised me when I tried the game as it does market itself as a spiritual successor to the Elite space trading games, which simulated space flight (not point-and-click) and, I guess, also had a space trading system, I am thinking the trading is what they are referring to. I am surprised that you tried EvE four times, I think it is a testament to the marketing of game that it was able to tempt you in this way. I think most players can get an idea of whether they want to try the game and progress with it from the trial and watching the space battle videos EvE players post on the net. 

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 honestly man...I tried to get into EvE.

I've tried it at least 4 times. I mean really, really tried it. and I just couldn't get into it. To me, it was boring.  not "too hard" or "too smart" or "requiring too much intellect", just not entertaining.

a MMO should hook you within the first few weeks you play it, and EVE just never did that for me. There were many times where I fell asleep while playing. Or I would set auto-pilot to take me somewhere for a Mission, and then I'd go make some food.

I'm not saying EVE is a bad, horrible game. I'm just saying it was boring, TO ME.

It may be God's Gift to Gaming to everyone else, and that's fine. I disagree, however, with the blanket generic "the game is too intelligent for you" responses that EVE fanboys parrot anytime someone doesn't like their game. it is a load of elitist crap.

EVE isn't horribly difficult. It merely requires paying attention. That's not that hard and doesn't require the brain of a rocket scientist. so please quit acting as if it does.

that said, for me, EVE isn't very fun. and by "isn't very fun" I don't mean "it's too hard" or "I don't understand it", I mean "it's boring." If there were any specific things I could point out that makes the game boring to me...it'd probably be the flight system and the combat system. I understand that Mining is 'sposed to be boring...but the Combat bored me too, and that shouldn't happen.

If I could get EVE Online with real-time movement and combat(i.e. not Point and Click), it'd be pretty awesome.

I dunno, maybe I just don't have the patience to wait a few months to build up to the point where I can start having fun. maybe I'll give it one more shot sometime down the road, and this time just go straight to low sec or 0.0 from the get go instead of staying in high sec until I build up my skills enough to be able to survive out there. and perhaps I'll find more fun that way.

Well your looking for a twitched based combat MMO which Jump Gate or BP will offer. The way the game differs is often the reason why some people find it boring.

------------------------------------------------------------

As others have said you either like it or you hate it, but either way it still is a entertaining MMO that hundreds of thousands still enjoy.

Played many MMO's that i find lacking for my type of gameplay, but you won't find me making usless and crap post about how crappy i think they are.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 honestly man...I tried to get into EvE.

I've tried it at least 4 times. I mean really, really tried it. and I just couldn't get into it. To me, it was boring.  not "too hard" or "too smart" or "requiring too much intellect", just not entertaining.

a MMO should hook you within the first few weeks you play it, and EVE just never did that for me. There were many times where I fell asleep while playing. Or I would set auto-pilot to take me somewhere for a Mission, and then I'd go make some food. I have honestly had more fun in the 2 days I've been playing Free Realms than I did in WEEKS of playing EVE. 

I'm not saying EVE is a bad, horrible game. It isn't. It's quite good, well designed, and polished. You can see the quality and the appeal of EVE, for certain people. It's just not the type of game for everyone. I'm just saying it was boring, TO ME.

It may be God's Gift to Gaming to everyone else, and that's fine. I disagree, however, with the blanket generic "the game is too intelligent for you" responses that EVE fanboys parrot anytime someone doesn't like their game. it is a load of elitist crap.

EVE isn't horribly difficult. It merely requires paying attention. That's not that hard and doesn't require the brain of a rocket scientist. so please quit acting as if it does. EVE isn't for everyone, I'll agree with that. But placing this artificial wall of "intelligence" that determines whether EVE is for you or not is stupid. Not liking the Game doesn't necessarily mean you are not intelligent, contrary to what the average EVE fanboy will tell you. It merely means you didn't enjoy the game. I don't understand how EVE fans with their vastly superior Intellect (compared to everyone who doesn't play EVE) don't seem to be capable of considering this.

that said, for me, EVE isn't very fun. and by "isn't very fun" I don't mean "it's too hard" or "I don't understand it", I mean "it's boring." If there were any specific things I could point out that makes the game boring to me...it'd probably be the flight system and the combat system. I understand that Mining is 'sposed to be boring...but the Combat bored me too, and that shouldn't happen.

If I could get EVE Online-style sandbox with real-time movement and combat(i.e. not Point and Click), it'd be pretty awesome.

I dunno, maybe I just don't have the patience to wait a few months to build up to the point where I can start having fun. maybe I'll give it one more shot sometime down the road, and this time just go straight to low sec or 0.0 from the get go instead of staying in high sec until I build up my skills enough to be able to survive out there. and perhaps I'll find more fun that way.

Just curious. Did you get involved in the pvp aspects of Eve? I only ask because you said you've tried the game 4 times. That means there's something there you're that might appeal to you. If you haven't, when you load it up for the 5th time. Go try it. Join a newbie corp, or try out factional warfare.