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Hello Everyone, I've been a long time player and follower of this site. I am currently working on a presentation to an investor I’ve lined up who has financed my other entrepreneurial projects in the past with good results. With my project managing career coming to end (voluntarily) I am applying some of the money I made and money from outside investors to make a start up company (I have already done this twice) that develops MMORPG's. Some history: If you like, please list below, with a reasonable amount of detail, what you would like to see in a new game. Please be realistic in your requests (i.e. "We want free xp every month for subbing..."). This is a good way to get your voice heard early on. Who knows, you may be responsible for why the venture gets funded. I have a development team lined up, they are extremely talented at what they do. They will be reading this too. I will be using select posts in my power point presentation. Thank you for your replies. I will be checking back often. I want to lay the groundwork for a good rapport between the community of players and the company. Once I have a clearer picture from the community and the market research team, I will present my findings and presentation to the potential investors. If (when!) the game gets picked up... I'll let you know. Once again, I thank you for your input an helping me in the matter. I hope by doing this, we all benefit. |
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Risk. So that I will remain interested. |
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Events, PONIES, THE SKY SPLITTING UP WITH A THOUSAND DOOM-like whispers that keep going, 'lol no', and well... more cookies. played: lots |
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At our last meeting someone suggested that AC was not enough risk and DFO was too much. As a solution someone proposed we have certain quests which can make some items not drop on death, this could be completed say, twice a month. Game balance is our number one priority, so we are working out the details as to how to protect certain items. Certain items will not be "enchantable", in the sense that they cannot be immune to loss. Death will also include a temporary penalty in attributes and skills. They are currently working on the math to make it less "danger aversion" and more "calculated risk" in regards to players wearing items during quests etc. Any proposed solutions posted here would be great!
Keep 'em coming and thanks for the post.
Sal Parvini |
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Originally posted by heremypet
Agreed, there is practically no risk involved in current MMOs. One thing i would love is a meaningful guild experience. Risk on a larger scale would be appreciated. This gives guilds a reason for bonding other than to get thru an instance.
Also a need for politics would be nice. Sieging is a must and player built cities are of primary concern.
Sorry for the randomness of this, just typing as i talk to someone. |
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Originally posted by salardc
The first thing that comes to my mind when reading this post is a thread similar to this, oddly about a year ago I think? It mentioned a potential investor for an Asheron's Call style remake and he was seeking input from the community. Needless to say, it was a hoax but the thought (even for me) worked a lot of people into a frenzy. I get that same feeling of both curiousity, and quite honestly doubt, with this thread. |
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Originally posted by libranim
In regards to events, we plan on employing a full time staff to play certain key characters as perpetual live event. The game is designed so you do not feel as though you are playing an NPC. This will not be for "run of the mill" creatures, but as the story line unfolds, you will notice at least 5-10 staff members playing online. These characters will have special rewards for capturing and or defeating. I cannot divulge too much yet as we are all under NDA from our present investor, but that much I can tell you. Ponies: I assume you mean mounts. We have something special planned for mounts. Gone are the days of endless sprinting. The mounts will gain abilities and skills as the character's riding skill is increased. We have discussed game balance issues with this. I am assured that what the programmers have in mind is nothing short of extraordinary. As for the sky splitting open: I have no comment on this at the present time (mostly because I dont understand what you are asking for.)
Thank you for your input,
Sal Parvini
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Ok, what the hell. Some things that are important to me: Freedom--I don't want the game to direct me. When I log in I want to have to decide for myself what to do not be told what to do. This means most especially that I don't want quests to be the primary means of advancement. Mobs which put up a fight--I may be unusual in this regard but I don't like fights that only last a few seconds. When I fight something I want it to feel like a fight. If I attack a giant rat at level one I want that rat to have a chance to win and I want the fight to last at least 20 seconds or more, preferably more. And fights should only get harder and longer as I progress. I'm sick and tired of mobs which fall over and die at the mere sight of me. Don't pamper me---not mini-maps with glowing arrows leading me around. No monty haul philosophy dumping upgrades on me so fast I barely notice what I'm using before I get an upgrade. If I die punish me for my stupidity, I deserve it. Make a hard, cruel game to stand in contrast to all the candyfloss and bright colors we've been deluged with. Grouping--Yes, I want grouping to be important again. Soloing should be possible but slower and more dangerous. That way when I do solo at least I can feel some pride in it and when I want to group there will always be plenty of other people willing to group. I could thing of more things to say but that's enough for now. |
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What I would like to see is the following. No more high fantasy....people will disagre with me, ignore them, there are plenty of games for them to play. Sandbox with a story element for thoes who want it, and no short change in the story. Getting sick of the korean grinder type "In ancient times the beutiful godess created the 4 great dildo's of maximum power who created the world for no apparent reason e.t.c..e.t.c...e.t.c... yawn" There is a market for risk taking here just read the threads of any of these mmo sights and you will see growing numbers of people who are disalusioned with the current state of this industry and the broken promisies of developers. If you a opertunity to present something that hasn't been tackled yet in an mmo I think now is the time to go for it. Be it setting or game law or game mechanics. Mmorpg's at the moment are just stagnating or trying the same old formulas. There is little or no imersion or feeling that you are lost in another world....antill you need to go the toilet and drags you back into rl where you contemplate the merits of buying a bedpan.....ummm but I digress. |
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I think you are approaching this wrong. Your first step is to decide on your market. Then you can decide what risk is appropriate. Then the only thing you need to worry about is how many people will like what you like. There is no 'maths' for what is right. Many things will factor in including human psychology and the way all the elements of your game fit together. Having a talented dev team does not impress me. We have seen many talented dev teams turn out complete dogs lately. Oh, and don't forget community management. The instant you formally announce your game and a forum is created (make sure you launch your forum first or you will lose control right there) your community begins to form. It is that community and those community standards that will carry over into the game. So, if you allow your forum to be dominated by a bunch of 1337 talking fanbois then don't be surprised when those same people gank and zerg and smacktalk your customers away when (if) the game goes live.
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Originally posted by salardc
In regards to events, we plan on employing a full time staff to play certain key characters as perpetual live event. The game is designed so you do not feel as though you are playing an NPC. This will not be for "run of the mill" creatures, but as the story line unfolds, you will notice at least 5-10 staff members playing online. These characters will have special rewards for capturing and or defeating. I cannot divulge too much yet as we are all under NDA from our present investor, but that much I can tell you. Ponies: I assume you mean mounts. We have something special planned for mounts. Gone are the days of endless sprinting. The mounts will gain abilities and skills as the character's riding skill is increased. We have discussed game balance issues with this. I am assured that what the programmers have in mind is nothing short of extraordinary. As for the sky splitting open: I have no comment on this at the present time (mostly because I dont understand what you are asking for.)
Thank you for your input,
Sal Parvini
No, I didn't mean ponies as mounts. It's post-exam period for me and my brain is teasing out words that I don't want to utter freely. I would love to give a real constructive suggestion to your game, and I have plenty somewhere in my head... I just don't have the motivation right now, good luck on your project though. P.S: ponies rule. played: lots |
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I would like to make it clear that we do not plan on "remaking" Asheron's Call. Our intention is to develope a new game, based on the positive aspects of a wide variety of games. The similarities to Asheron's Call will be in spirit and feel, not content. Most of the team members we currently have, including the marketing staff, have been chosen based on the fact that they did not have prior experience in MMO's. We plan on implemeting many new features exclusive to out game. This is simply me starting a grass roots "fact finding mission". As the Project Manager for the Creative arm of the company's project, its my job to make sure that what you want implemented, within reason of course, is passed on to the actual development team. I myself have absolutely no part of the coding, graphical design, lore, marketing etc. As for the guild system, we have a special "proprietary" allegiance system in mind. Their will be certain bonuses for fighting with you guildmates. Playing with your monarch will amplify these bonuses. Your monarch, in return, gains bonuses for the amount guild members near him/her in battle. There will be more on this later as things develope. We are still working on balance issues with steamrolling through areas and pleliminary calculations show me that too much experience can be "passed up" too quickly. We however, do not want to penelize players for playing with guild members, so efforts are being put into balancing this aspect of game play. The monarchy system will be a major portion of the game, in regards to NPC city building, PC city/fortification building, crafting abilities and vendors. More on this later. Needless to say, it will behoov any guild to protect their king and castle.
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Originally posted by Angorim He first thing I thought of was that guy claiming to be from Element Games - "somethingELMT" was his handle? Marvin? Then he had a spit and claimed he had ADD and some other stuff. Then he vanished when we pointed out he was making himself look stupid. |
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Originally posted by salardc Forgive me for being a cynic (it's what I do) but there are some contradictions here. How far along development are you? |
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A completely player-ran economy. I hear Eve has that, but I don't currently play that and not sure how it works. And when I say completely ran, I mean completely. In other words, no "soulbound" or "attuned" items to a character. I mean, does it even make sense that an item won't work for someone else after you use it? I didn't think so. I can understand having something get damaged or broken beyond repair, and then having to be thrown away. Heck, maybe a persons character can learn item repair as a profession and do away with the repair NPC's altogether! I think to control an overflow of in-game items (whether they are player-created, earned, or found) there should be professions that can break down the items to make something new. I know a lot of games have this type of profession (in WoW it's disenchanting), but why are we still forced to have soulbound items?
If the above idea was used in a game and the economy started to take a dive, it would then force a new type of group in-game. It would be a server wide group to do what they can to fix the economy. It would also give more reason to have professions that break down items to make something else....if they don't break down these items, the market will become flooded with said items.
Heck, now that I think about it, why not make a game that after real life? I'm starting to get tired of Orcs, Goblins, Humans, Gnomes, Warriors, Rogues, Healers, and Hunter games. Like another poster said here "RISK"! Take the risk of creating a whole new MMO experience. If you make another WoW or Everquest clone, you will most likely not even be noticed. Even the space sci-fi mmo market is starting to fill up, followed up by superhero mmo's.
I'm a fan of all things unexplained or paranormal (yes, meaning ghost, ufo's, etc.). Maybe make a MMO with this kind of stuff in it. Maybe have a class that actually has psychic powers that can see an enemies special attack coming, and could even mentally pass on this information to groupmates so they can react to it as well. So yeah...go supernatural with it! Scratch my previous paragraph about a real life MMO, I like this last rambling I had even better! |
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I would like to see more games that reward you for surviving reather then Death penalties ALA Spellborn. Also I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to play an origanal Sci Fi title. I dont want to be a space ship, I want to own one! |
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Originally posted by spookydom
Oh yah and what Spookydom said! |
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Gyrus,
A certain amount of cynicism is healthy. To answer your question: We are currently at the "drawing board". By calculations I meant that the staff, quite litterally, were calculating on pen and paper and calculator hat would happen when a group 20 guild members ran through and clear an area (we will not have instances). They then ran the same calculations without the bonuses. We have not created a playable world yet if that is what it sounded like I was saying. Without further outside funding, we would never get to that point. Most of the things we calculate are theoretical, as we do not want to have to go back and recode things (as they have explained to me). We are still working on how to make certain aspects of our game "different" without making them too difficult to implement. The stage we are at now is basically fact finding, market research and preliminary calculations as to how many staff members we will need to begin the actual process next year. We are working on gathering all of our thoughts and ideas into a central "thought bank". We will then present a distilled plan to the investors. If we cannot convince the investors to further fund our company, we will not be able to continue. It's my job to present something to them that is different enough to justify them investing in an already "saturated" (to them) market. I hope I have satisfactorily answered your questions and cleared up any confusion my previous posts may have caused. Please continue to give us your thoughts on anything you think you would like implemeted.
Regards Sal Parvini
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Dont know if the thread is legit but ill bite since this is an interesting subject. STREAMLINE. Half finshed features are a hallmark of this genre. Whatever you plan to work on will get good rep if you work on quality. Plan for worse case scenarios when drawing your budget, dont try biting more than you can chew and dont feel tempted to promise absolutely anything to a player that you havent already worked on and know for a fact you can deliver. This alone would make your game stand out. If your project is ahead of schedule and running a surplus, work on polish and nothing else. Cut out the fat, dont put in extras that dont really add to the fun. Using the same mob for different ends, other than grinding, will always beat reskinning it multiple times to no purpose. Dont be cheap about using textures, no part of your game should look drab and uninteresting, and never sacrifice quality in either gameplay or animation. Other than that is better than your game becomes genius at doing a couple of things than mediocre at a dozen. Crafting is a good example. Ingenuity and creativity go a longer way in creating a good system than tons of cheesy icons. Your game will be better off with a simple but functional and fun way to handle this, than with the elaborate cookie cutter progression of dull tasks and uninspired mechanics. Sell your investor on the idea you can come up with better and more cost effective solutions than the industry norm and youll be halfway to getting your budget.
Just to make things clear... |
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Originally posted by salardc
Okay, then it's not the 20 guild members you should be worried about. It's the size of your world and the other players. No instances is a good design choice (for me anyway - I perfer a world without instances) but it also decides many other factors. World size and travel times should be part of your calculations... and world size will have a big influence on the size of the Dev Team you will need. You need to look at player density and (monster) respawn times too. You also need to decide how much PvE/PvP/RvR will be in game because this in turn will make choices for you. I trust your team have all read Bartle's Designing Virtual Worlds? If not - do. Many arguements in that book are still valid and make good points to remember. |
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I think you need to find out what players love the most from three different games,FFXI,Everquest 2,WOW.These 3 games have just about every possible angle covered in gaming. FFXI has a couple features that are automatic winners,their SUB CLASS system and the ability to play ALL class on the same player.The combat system is also second to none,you could implement the Everquest [copied by WOW] design of having tiered/ranked spells,that adds a little extra to the game.I do not believe for a second that grouping is the wrong way to go ,all a developer needs is to implement it properly,so that it does not become cumbersome for the player.The only reason grouping is shun is because players are either lazy or have no patience,you could still cater to them using good grouping mechanics. Wow is basically a design to achieve advancement through questing and repetitive questing.This is a very important choice to make in the initial game design,especially if you plan on allowing all class to be played on the same player.This is because each time they create a new class they would have to repeat those quests over and over until boredom sets in. I believe a game should be about enjoying every level,this is done by utilizing fun creative combat and utilizing ideas outside of the box.This would be achieved by making levels extremely slow to gain,after all the purpose is fun and not to see how fast you gain levels.This can be done in several ways ,without getting too creative.This is by using the stop xp gain,designed by Everquest and a combination of FFXI's weapon skill system.In FFXI you not only gain xp for levels but you must gain skill points for your weapon,otherwise it's damage and effectiveness is weak.You could further this by utilizing the same idea for armor as well. To make a VERY slow level grind work is to have things for players to need/want to do for each level.This design usually fails ONLY because games have nothing to give players at each level other than your basic "next" spell or ability.Some other ideas for level grind are again seen in EQ2.You give mobs the ability to spawn "tiered" mobs.This means that every time you clear a cluster of mobs there is a chance to spawn the "next" higher tier of mob.The end goal is to spawn the highest tier mob for either quest or rare loot.The idea i like is to have drops 'combine"to make a sort of super loot or super drop.This would be done by having individual drops from each level,so players that want to achieve these "super" drops would need to continue to kill at each level. My idea for a loot table is to implement the idea of turning off XP,so it gives players choice.With xp turned off you have a higher % to reach the best loot table drops.SO when you meet that Boss mob,he can give enormous xp or a better loot table the choice is yours. To further make a game intuitive is by utilizing a scalable mob system.This system could really get creative ,an idea is to scale the loot table and xp .So say if you solo,the top end loot table starts at 3% and each player up to a max of 6 you add,adds another 2% chance to the top end loot table.Each level a player is over the mobs level,you subtract 1%.Doing the math you can see how it is still advantageous to form a group of 6,yet the ability to solo is still there,this is a design that works for all players. There is basically too many things from those 3 games to mention in less than a 10 page essay,so you need to fully understand those 3 games and you can create a very good game. |
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Risk ruins Pug World PvP
So limit the risk, or be forced to deal with limited player base in World PvP.
WPvP is all about numbers. the larger the group, the more epic the battles. Dont mess that up with super high DP. You will scare away most players interested in WPvP |
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Assuming that you're gunning for a Fantasy based MMORPG, I'll toss out the bare bones wish list of what I'm looking for in my next game to play. Character Classes - I think the days of single roles attached to a class are done. While the holy trinity of tank-dps-healer may take a while to move forward, I believe World of Warcraft took a good step in letting classes choose through specialization with which role they would fill. I think Runes of Magic and Guildwars took it to better places with a main class+chosen subclass system. I also respect Final Fantasy's Sub Job system, so take your pick. Choose a path, but take classes away from the single role "locked forever" thing that Everquest and Aion offered. Class Levels - I prefer a skill based point system over using the tried and true level system. But if for game creation's sake you MUST go with having classes advance through leveing, take a note from Final Fantasy Online and City of Heroes. Both games allow players of higher and lower levels adventure together with meaningful rewards for the players invovled for doing so. This is the way of the future. Players will have different play schedules and time to commit to a game, but they will ALWAYS want to play with their friends. Enable them to do this via this mechanic, and I promise you that at least 25% of your game's being a success will be assured. If not more. PvP - Games that focus solely or almost solely on Player vs Enemy play, such as original Everquest and Middle Earth Online have drawn in their fair share of players, but properly thought out PvP brings in the biggest crowd. World of Warcraft had VERY solid ideas involving PvP with early zones being safe and later zones being contested. WoW's Battlegrounds were also pretty well thought of for the time too. Dark Age of Camelot provided much of the same, but really nailed things by including 3 antagonistic player factions. There is NO reason why a modern MMORPG can't cater to both crowds anymore - too much has been learned from past games for this excuse. Three factions seems to be the way to go in my opinion in stirring things up and dealing with faction population imbalance through mechanics that can be applied when players go to make characters on a current server. Endgame Goals - PvE endgame goals are incredibly simple. Raids. Group risk to gain rewards through coordinated Group accomplishments. Again, Dark Age of Camelot had the idea of PvP objectives being required to be taken and held by a player faction in order to unlock PvE dungeon raid content for desirable rewards, and this hasn't been effectively copied. I don't know why. It did a LOT to help promote a sense of community through several layers with the players in the factions, with respect being given both ways between those who enjoyed PvP and those who preferred PvP play. An MMORPG that allows players to destroy enemy faction towns and key NPC's will probably never see the light of day, but this form of objective system is especially effective in satisfying PvP players in feeling that what they're doing is worthwhile. That the goals are real. Player Crafting - If the very best loot can only come from the hardest Raids and the most expensive PvP reward system, then allow crafting to fill 2 niches, much like Warcraft provides for. Allow players to make high quality (even if it isn't the extreme top end quality) gear and weapons for the different tiers of leveling up... and make each profession produce 2 or more DISTINCT enhancement items that can ONLY be gained from tradeskills. Did your character just win a great new sword from a raid? Perhaps slotting gems from the proper crafter will make it that much better, an enchantment from an enchanter will enhance it further, or a Smith might be able to add a final touch of refinement and tempering to have it evolve just one step higher in performance. Mid-game rewards for crafting through the basics, End-game smaller but critical rewards for having put in the work to get there. Game Performance - Both Warcraft and Aion were built from the core up to work on a wide variety of systems, and while some may put down total graphic appearance on high end machines, they bet on the right horse with that philosophy when it came to making money. Do the same thing. BUT. IRON OUT YOUR GAME BUGS AND ANIMATIONS AND LAG before letting the game take it step into Open Beta. The player community has hit too many dead ends with half-assed finished products making it to game launch when it comes to performance, lag, and how their characters look when they fight. If you played Age of Conan and Warhammer Online at launch, you know what I'm talking about. Players WILL hold performance issues against the company very, very quickly. Make the extra effort. I would actually rather play an MMO based on something sci-fi at this point, like Shadowrun. Fantasy has been ground into the dirt by everyone else. But if you have to go the fantasy route, I think I kinda do speak for a lot of players with these points. Best of luck.
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Make what you want and don't listen to what people want, because people don't know what they want and they will just cause you to fail. It's happened more than once in the past.
Seriously. Make what you would enjoy. Then take player's advice with a grain of salt, once you make a product they can play.
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Originally posted by Gyrus
Quoting because it's worth repeating. Very good advice, Gyrus! |
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