I thought Jon Wood was going to prove his sex or become gender neutral in this thread. Now I'm totally disappointed, and I will continue to be disappointed until I hear that Jon has become a Ken doll.

 Well MMO's are role-playing by nature so if  a guy wants to play as a women I really feel like I have no right to tell them they can't. I feel like the MMO companies are over stepping their boundries by telling people this. A huge part of these games are fantasy and role playing is even in the genre description so I feel like artificial limitations like that are kind of cheapening and unfair. Now I have never cybered in an mmo game so maybe that's one of the reasons I don't care but I can see female toons getting harassed if guys know they are in fact female and that gender ambiguity could work in their benefit. Like I said though, if two people want to cyber or live their online life as the opposite gender I don't feel like it is my place to judge. Hopefully they keep it in tells though as I'd hate to stumble upon that conversation :p. 

On a somewhat off topic side note I was doing an Iron Tower run in AOC recently with five female toons and myself. Four of which had mics so they were indeed women while the fifth claimed to have none so I couldn't verify one way or the other. The first boss you encounter is female and charms you and all five of them got charmed, with me just escaping in time. That's  six women against me if you include the boss chasing after me and beating on me for the duration of the charm which looked hilarious and opened up the dialogue for some very entertaining though sexist conversation between all of us with me certainly on the tale end  of all of their jokes and them getting the brunt of my humor. It really can be a wonderful thing to have exchanges and encounters like this with the opposite gender as women can sometimes bring a very different, and in this case very funny, perspective to such encounters. It is certainly a raid I will remember for a long time and they all seemed very nice, were funny and it's certainly the first time that it's happened to me in a video game. The key here is that everyone was respectful yet not very politically correct which is the, imo, ideal atmosphere for such things. Not raunchy or mean spirited but definitely not work place humor. Being the only guy certainly was fun, and to those looking for attention in the digital world, perhaps even enviable but I still think that people should be allowed to play how they feel.  Just my 2 cents.

Hah, so the Chinese are basically saying "Tits or GTFO"?

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Teala

So let's rag on the female gender as if this is our fault.    Also, what does playing a female toon, if you're a guy, have to do with gender specific issues.    Guys have been playing female toons like forever.   Any guys here ever play Tomb Raider?  Thought so.   Nobody thought anything of that did they.    So why make a big deal out of this.   If some frakked up company in China wishes to be stupid...let them.    All this article is is sensationalism.   Come on...this is not worthy of an article.     This is kind of writing is to just get people riled up.    ::sigh::

*ahem*

What?

Can I ask, honestly, whether or not you actually read the article?

No kidding guys have been playing female toons forever. I know I have. This article was written to point out how stupid this particular policy actually is. I'm making a "big deal" out of it because it's completely outrageous. Many news sites picked up on this story and I wanted to use my column this week to rant about how stupid it was.

I could see your complaint if the article had been written from the perspective of : hey, what a great idea... but it wasn't.

 

Why is it outrageous? Many things in life ask you to specify your gender, be it applying for a job or play amateure football. Why would a competetive video game be any different?

It is not politically correct but I dont see what is so outrageous about it.

It does not say that male, female, gay, straight, black, white cannot play. They simply say dont misrepresent/hide your true gender.

Well you see the problem with your view point is that you are not applying for a job or playing amateur football.  We are talking about mmoRPG. Yes the RPG stands for roleplaying game.  Set in on a real pen and paper rpg game session or go to a roleplaying game convention like GenCon and you will see that the whole thing of not allowing a player to play a character of an opposite sex is ridiculous.

  You are not misrepresenting anything because you are playing a roleplaying game.  Otherwise like other people pointed out you would be misrepresenting yourself by playing a mage when you don't really cast spells.  Or being an orc when you are not.

I think at the heart of the matter is that people for some reason think that these games double as an online dating service.   There are companies that are good at finding someone a date.  These people need to start going to those sites instead of soliciting other players. 

People really need to get a life and stop obsessing over what someones real life sex is.  I could care less.  If they are cool to group with and are nice in general that is all I care about.

About time they put this kind of thing into games, for far to long we have strayed for the word of the lord and people need to stop this perversion that if cross gender playing, we were made this way by our lord and this is the way we should be view by the world, I'm all for it perhaps DNA testing keyboards, or always on Webcams so there will be no taking pic of there girlfriend as a way around it.

Ok ok I'm joking someone get these guys a big cup of STFU and wave bye bye to there game as it sinks into the pit of games that will never get played.

The only reason for this is so that the CSR's can cyber knowing that it is a girl, I would LOVE to see the transcript of the guy that got burnt SO bad that they want to put this kind of ruling in :) 

Thanks for the LOL will spread this one far and wide :) 

Originally posted by Kalmarth

About time they put this kind of thing into games, for far to long we have strayed for the word of the lord and people need to stop this perversion that if cross gender playing, we were made this way by our lord and this is the way we should be view by the world, I'm all for it perhaps DNA testing keyboards, or always on Webcams so there will be no taking pic of there girlfriend as a way around it.

 

Ok ok I'm joking someone get these guys a big cup of STFU and wave bye bye to there game as it sinks into the pit of games that will never get played.

The only reason for this is so that the CSR's can cyber knowing that it is a girl, I would LOVE to see the transcript of the guy that got burnt SO bad that they want to put this kind of ruling in :) 

 

Thanks for the LOL will spread this one far and wide :) 

Lol good one you got me for a moment there I was about to pull out the claws and attack you. Yah that is a good point, honestly though its all about sexism and fear. Its about that macho idea "I don't want to hit on a girl and find out its a man," when in all reality they'd be lucky if any human being would reply to their advances rofl. Cross gender gaming is fine, if you need a relationship then get off your PC and go out and meet someone. Kudos to your post you got me for a second.
 

That company got it all wrong. It's all about Role Playing game.

If I want to play a role of a nice blond girl, so be it.

If I want to play as a horrible female green 1-eyed 8 feet Orc, should I also prove my idenity??

This is all ridiculous

Its not about gender but about sex...thats a concept many people still confuse ^^

And this a slap in the face for Transgendered people the most really....not as if its the first ^.^ :-\

Originally posted by Kalmarth

The only reason for this is so that the CSR's can cyber knowing that it is a girl, I would LOVE to see the transcript of the guy that got burnt SO bad that they want to put this kind of ruling in :) 

The story of Ceciliantas is a good example of why you shouldn't engage in cybering activities in an MMO

Originally posted by demarc01

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Heh, well China is still under communist rule.  Do I expect their government to be intrusive, bizarre, controlling?  You betcha.  Does that make it alright?  Of course not.  I'm just not surprised.

They haven't been neighbourhood bullies to the extent of other totalitarian states (Tibet aside), but they're sure a far cry from a free, democratic society.

 

You Sir are an idiot.

Communist in its purest form is the right way to go. China is what the "west" calls communist but really is as far from true communist as the American-capatalist state is.

True communist ideals are based on a classless society with no ruling class and equal say for all. This China is not.  Please do not use words unless you really understand them. "Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. A communist society would have no governments, countries, or class divisions" Sound like China? No? Thought not.

In its purest form Communisum is the ultimate form of free thought and progression for mankind. Of course thats not the case in the real world as its controlled by people and by thier very nature people are open to corruption.

Just because your history teacher in 3rd grade taught you that all "commies" are evil does not make it so. Get a world view then reply with something resembling free though. China is a totalitarian state yes ... and that is (IMHO) worse than the capataist system we in the west use ... dont be mislead into thinking that communisum is bad though .. if it could be really achieved without the flaws of man it would be a much better system than any we currently have. Democratic just means "majority rule" its not a free state as deffined by true communisum.

My third grade teacher never taught me that "commies" are evil.  In fact, I don't live in a nation or culture where the term "commies" is even used commonly.
 

I'm also not starting a political/philosophical conversation about the merits of any economic paradigm, communist or otherwise.  I was commenting on the application of communism in China, at present, and how this may impact the way Chinese companies handle issues like intellectual freedom and privacy.

I see the gender issue in this MMO as a breach of those two things specifically: intellectual freedom and privacy.  I agree with Jon that this is absurd.  I still think it highlights, for me, some of the freedoms that I can be thankful for here in Canada.

"Am I going to have to prove that I'm short and fat in order to play a Halfling? Give me a break."

...And your platted beard if you have a dwarf... ...Do I need a lobotomy if I want to change my stats/skills?

They will need to see your criminal record also if you intend to play that Halfling as a thief.

Can someone make another thread for this, I reckon some of us could keep this up all night.

some pick female characters because they look 'good' (you can partly 'blame' developers for this besides your own biological mind and culture)

some pick female characters because there's always some sucker which gives them free gifts or hesitates to kill them in pvp

during most of the years i've played games i always played male characters. it never even really crossed my mind to play a female character because i'm a man irl but about a year ago i have played a female character and the reason was trivial: humor. there was little else as funny as playing a brutal warrior with the smallest possible female character wearing the biggest possible axe. if it would have been reality that figure could never have wielded that axe and the contrast was funny in my opinion.

ever since that first time i just pick the sex for the character i'll play which i find appropriate for whatever reason i imagine at the time so it can be a male or female character.

mind you i'm not really acting girly or anything and i've never claimed in one of theses games that i'm a girl irl and in that situation the potentially most troubling part about cross-gender playing is not that you risk being 'harassed' in some way by other players (assuming you're not encouraging that yourself) but the 'wedding' policies in mmo's which rarely allow same 'gender' character weddings.

in game weddings don't interest me much -they're often only about cash anyway :p- but since most players are not role playing the whole time and usually start to talk about real life and such eventually it can matter what your sex is in real life, despite of the fact that there's little reason for genders to matter for the game itself.

combine that with the wedding policy in most games and what you get is a weird situation where you would have to marry a male character played by a hetero girl when you're a hetero man yourself but playing a female character or you're not able to have a virtual marriage at all between these characters. :p

Originally posted by MikeTheSaint

"Am I going to have to prove that I'm short and fat in order to play a Halfling? Give me a break."

 

...And your platted beard if you have a dwarf... ...Do I need a lobotomy if I want to change my stats/skills?

They will need to see your criminal record also if you intend to play that Halfling as a thief.

 

Can someone make another thread for this, I reckon some of us could keep this up all night.

Yup, and I like your examples.

From a sociology perspective this could be seen as a clear conflict between a collectivist culture and one that values individual rights and freedoms.

In more collective cultures (where the group is more important than the individual) you have a lot of prescribed roles.  Any deviation from these prescriptions creates an anxiety that the good of the "community" is being undermined.  This anxiety tends to express itself through various forms of social control.  Some are subtle (e.g. disapproving looks, comments), others are more overt (policies like this MMO company has introduced, and laws).

Generally speaking, cultures that find a happy median between the needs of the group and the needs of the individual thrive.  Extremes to either side of the spectrum tend to have negative outcomes, from a historical and sociological point of view at any rate.

I lean towards individual rights and freedoms, so this controlling method of regulating social norms is a shock to my senses.  Policing gender roles in a virtual environment is certainly an unwelcome extreme imo.

Maybe they are looking to start a "Your GF Pics" porn site and need material?

My favorite reason for playing a female toon:

"if you are going to spend hours looking at your toon's rear end, then it might as well be a rear end you like looking at!"

HAHA! I freaking LOVE it! Do it.

I think you men need to get over yourselves. Games are not just for men anymore and this just proves it.

I think it's assanine when men play female characters. It's so gay. Don't give me that crap about not wanting to look at a male toon's butt. How childish. It's pixels, not real life. Men who play female characters worry me. Are they cybering with other men getting off on it? That's dishonest and in the past, it has caused problems for others in real life.

That's my opinion and I think it is a fantastic idea! 

You can say it's a unique idea or a funny idea,but it's not a stupid idea at all,at least it's not stupid for selling thier game.

There are many boys in Taiwan or in mainland China playing mmorpg in oder to find some girls to talk to or even better :find a girlfriend.So there are many crappy mmorpgs introduced "mirrage" or "dating" system into them,if you are someone trying to find a gf on those games,a game with this "gender proving polocy" would be more attractive to you,even if you know it's hard to really prevent female characters been played buy dudes.

And also there are too many crappy mmorgs competing in this market,so you need some special features to get you more attention or free advertisement.Half naked female characters with huge boobs are not unique anymore,so you need something new like this,and yes they got many attention on their game,so it's not a bad idea at all even for the free ad only.

By the way,i am a chinese.Guys please dont use chinese words you dont know in your signature or avatar.

It's pretty funny for those who undersand the meaning of those words.

If your using an MMO as a dating site then your not only limiting your options but truly need to take a look at the internet and what it has to offer, with the advent of sites like (well not going to say them all but we have all seen the ads on tv) if you pick an MMO as your choice then you need your head read.

Thanks for the heads up on the using Chinese words I have seen it the other way around ALOT as I spend a lot of time in Japan and China, and some of the translations are truly funny and some so sick they should get awards :)

Originally posted by Shibari

HAHA! I freaking LOVE it! Do it.

I think you men need to get over yourselves. Games are not just for men anymore and this just proves it.

I think it's assanine when men play female characters. It's so gay. Don't give me that crap about not wanting to look at a male toon's butt. How childish. It's pixels, not real life. Men who play female characters worry me. Are they cybering with other men getting off on it? That's dishonest and in the past, it has caused problems for others in real life.

That's my opinion and I think it is a fantastic idea! 

Man this logic is so full of holes, it's hard to resist answering in kind...
 

Personally you are the one with a problem. it's not a question of want, it's a question of rather. Yeah, it's all pixels, so why are you so shocked that someone might chose to play a female toon. Maybe you are are really an elf/undead/dwarf in real life. I know I'm not.

As for thinking it's gay to play female characters, it just goes to show how immature you are, or how afraid of your own masculinity you are that you feel threatened by anyone playing a girl toon. I guess you never played Tomb Raider, No One Lives Forever or any of those games either. Next thing you know, you would be probably raiding your mom's closet and wearing her underwear.

And no, guys playing girl toons are not cybering other guys. But I would venture to say you once tried to cyber some cute girl elf, only to find out it was a 40 year old dude. Maybe that's where your trauma stems from. Either that or you tried to marry one or even showered some girl toon with all your money only to find out that you were suckered.

A basic rule of thumb is, always assume that that toon hottie is a guy. If you want to find a date, go to a dating site, or better yet, get a life.

is for me, If i rather play a toon that i consider easy on the eyes then that is my prerogative and does not lessen my manhood one iota to do so.  

---

Originally posted by Shibari

HAHA! I freaking LOVE it! Do it.

I think you men need to get over yourselves. Games are not just for men anymore and this just proves it.

I think it's assanine when men play female characters. It's so gay. Don't give me that crap about not wanting to look at a male toon's butt. How childish. It's pixels, not real life. Men who play female characters worry me. Are they cybering with other men getting off on it? That's dishonest and in the past, it has caused problems for others in real life.

That's my opinion and I think it is a fantastic idea! 

---

Ok lets start with working out what you really mean

gay
??/ge?/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [gey] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, noun, adverb
Use gay in a Sentence
See web results for gay
See images of gay
–adjective
1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.
3. given to or abounding in social or other pleasures: a gay social season.
4. licentious; dissipated; wanton: The baron is a gay old rogue with an eye for the ladies.
5. homosexual.
6. of, indicating, or supporting homosexual interests or issues: a gay organization.
–noun
7. a homosexual person, esp. a male.
–adverb
8. in a gay manner.

I assume that you are using it in the homosexual term and also trying to convey it as an insult of sorts, this would put you in the 6-14 age bracket as this is the most common insult they use after the age of 14 and puberty has started it is dropped for more hurtful terms.
Games have not been "JUST FOR MEN" for a very long time now, and if you took them as being that way it is just another indicator to your narrow world view.
Men playing women in an Role play game, well lets define Role play for you, anytime you take on a persona that is not your own you are role playing, on a conscious or subconscious level, (yes that means when you play Halo you are Role playing as a Spartan) now I will make a leap here and say that you do not want to be or have ever role played when not playing a game, (you don't dress up as master chief and run about shooting people) so if this is true they why do you make the assumption that anyone that plays a gender not there own (yes it goes both ways) wants to be the gender/Character in there day to day life?
As for cybering to get off as you put it, I can point you to thousands of sites that are far easier to meet people of the same sexual persuasion as your self (homosexual/lesbian or straight) to cyber in a game is kind of like pushing water up hill with a blindfold on, hard as hell and you never know what your getting.

Thanks for your very very narrow opinion on this subject and please seek some psychiatric help.

Originally posted by Shibari

I think you men need to get over yourselves. Games are not just for men anymore and this just proves it.

I think it's assanine when men play female characters. It's so gay. Don't give me that crap about not wanting to look at a male toon's butt. How childish. It's pixels, not real life.

You pretty much owned yourself.

Its pixels, its not real life - so why care about real life or even drag that subject into this in the first place?

Its pixels, not real life. Man you nailed it, that comment is so good. Unfortunate for you it can be turned against your silly little arguments.

 [Kamen Rider Zero]Let me say this to start![/zero]

I am a guy and i play girls. Got a problem what that? Then i got a problem giving your company my money.

I'm confused how picking an avatar gender opposite yours is "misrepresenting" anything. Say, I play a male tank class. And then I freely tell my guild that the planned raid time for next week has to be moved up an hour so I could pick my hubby up from the airport. Where is the misrepresentation? Say I play a female rogue but chat on ventrilo in baritone. You have to work to misrepresent yourself, gender or anything else. If you were going to put in the effort to deceive people, no amount of internet "failsafes" are going to do anything.

How people can say simply playing a female toon when you're a guy is being deceptive boggles the mind.

Ok you've won me over.  Male players can have female characters in-game BUT only if they castrate themselves and become eunics... problem solved.

Let me guess the real story behind this...some Party Official was playing this game and found out the chick he was cybering with was really a guy... news at 11:00