Originally posted by ferdie4

I think eve is more carebear then most games now. Not Carebear like WoW though.

Buy a few manuals, click a few times, then log back a week later and your skills have increased.

In most games you actually have to put up some effort to gain some skill progression.

Leveling skills isn't the "point" of Eve.  Making a place for yourself in the world is.

And as I said before, you could give a 100m skillpoint character to 90% of the people in this thread and throw them in a 3 billion isk ship... and someone with 10m skillpoints with a T1 ship fitting would dismantle them.

The combat system is sophisticated, based on advanced knowledge of game mechanics, situational experience, and intelligent and quick decision making. The tactical aspects outweigh any MMO on the market, and the game is designed so that a 2 week old character can fly in the same fleet as a  7 year old character, and actually contribute.

Being a basement dweller who spends 14 hours a day playing video-games doesn't automatically make you better than the player who plays 2 hours a day.  It's about who is more intelligent and who makes better decisions.   The only thing that spending excessive amount of time in this game does is make your more isk, which is beneficial enough within itself.  If your one of those people who have absolutely no life and want to powerlevel your way to the top... well that sucks... there are definitely no shortage of games that you can do exactly that in.  And you can always take the isk you make and buy a high SP character off the bazaar... your still going to suck until you get practical experience.

I personally think the design of the combat system and the skill system is damned genius.

Come and spend the night in Providence. I'll make sure to make EVE fun for all of you. :)

care bear? 

You have seriously no idea what you are talking about if you think that EVE is for care bear... Perm deaths, perm loses and such... yeah right. Ever lost a faction ship to a pirate?

I'll bite to be honest and defend EVE. EVE requires some patience, lots of planning and specially a lot of IQ. I admit that EVE has some boring moments and some downtimes compared to WOW but in EVE you can see fights breaking from 1v1 to 400 versus 400+ 

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by ferdie4

I think eve is more carebear then most games now. Not Carebear like WoW though.

Buy a few manuals, click a few times, then log back a week later and your skills have increased.

In most games you actually have to put up some effort to gain some skill progression.

 

Leveling skills isn't the "point" of Eve.  Making a place for yourself in the world is.

And as I said before, you could give a 100m skillpoint character to 90% of the people in this thread and throw them in a 3 billion isk ship... and someone with 10m skillpoints with a T1 ship fitting would dismantle them.

The combat system is sophisticated, based on advanced knowledge of game mechanics, situational experience, and intelligent and quick decision making. The tactical aspects outweigh any MMO on the market, and the game is designed so that a 2 week old character can fly in the same fleet as a  7 year old character, and actually contribute.

Being a basement dweller who spends 14 hours a day playing video-games doesn't automatically make you better than the player who plays 2 hours a day.  It's about who is more intelligent and who makes better decisions.   The only thing that spending excessive amount of time in this game does is make your more isk, which is beneficial enough within itself.  If your one of those people who have absolutely no life and want to powerlevel your way to the top... well that sucks... there are definitely no shortage of games that you can do exactly that in.  And you can always take the isk you make and buy a high SP character off the bazaar... your still going to suck until you get practical experience.

 

I personally think the design of the combat system and the skill system is damned genius.

 

EVE = Thinking Man's Game, then?

No wonder why people say it's too difficult/boring.

Originally posted by whpsh

I played EVE almost exclusively at work, windowed and behind what I was really working on. When I was home, I'd play it in windowed mode in a side monitor while I was playing an FPS or Empire: Total War.

BUT, I never did make it into a serious corp. And everyone says that if you EVE you gotta' CORP or its gonna suck.

Still, after playing for four or five months, I only had 2 or 3 million SP and CORPs that are worth anything (i.e. NOT The Ganking Douch Horde Corp) are looking for 10+ million SP.

If the only equipment on the playground is the jungle gym, it's easy to say the playground is cool when you're one of the people on it. Not so much when you have to play in the dirt until the cool kids stop kicking you off their toy.

Getting into a decent corp in EvE can be tough.  A lot of the better corps have training corps that have no requirements to join and only ask that you actively participate.  That's how I got my start when I was around 2-3 million SP.  If you prove to be a competent pilot they usually bump you into the main corp even if you don't meet the advertised skill requirements for an outsider.

OP if that's what you think EVE is about then you have not a clue what EVE offers. Can fly a dred in 5 months, build various components for ships, mine, trade, build faction rep corps for selling, transporting, mission running, smuggling, pirating, exploration, salvaging, reasearch and manufacturing.

Just because you don't understand the skill system does not mean it sucks or is wrong.

As far as traveling, DUH IT'S SPACE! It's supposed to be massive, the various regions are all different on what they contain.

So far it seems you have not run into the bad parts of space yet or else you wouldn't say that about traveling between sysytems.

The UI controls are over 7 years old, are you daft, don't understand that EVE is that old of a MMO, in it's time it has changed more than any MMO out today.

Maybe if you learned to fit your ship for whatever situation you go into you wouldn't get your butt kicked.

LOL!  Methinx the OP played Eve for like 5 minutes.

For one, you can't queue a weeks worth of skills, you can only queue within 24 hours.  i suppose if you're clever, you can queue a final skill that takes a week to train.  Oh, the horror... if it makes you feel better, there used to NOT be a skill queue; you had to pop off all those 10 minute skills manually.

Autopilot is the longest and most dangerous way to fly.  It leaves you wide open to attack, because you can only warp to within 15k of the gate.  If you fly manually, you land within jumping distance of the jumpgate, making travel safer and quicker.  It easily cuts your travel time in half to fly manually; much more if you're in a freighter or other slow moving ship.

You DO realize that a frigate is actually useful in a large scale space battle, right?  That different ships have different roles?  That you don't have to be in a Battleship, and that a battleship has a pretty hard time hitting a well equipped frigate?  You can root, you can mark targets, vamp shields, kill the drones from enemy player ships before they even touch your corps' battleships...

You're right though.  If zerging to 60 in two months was your fandom in other games, Eve isn't your game.  But it does explain why you're apparently bored with those games and are shopping for something different.  Your (likely) lack of patience for exploring and taking in the game world around you, and zerging to the "end" is what's making you bored, not the game itself.

Originally posted by decoy26517

you forgot that it's BORING. the combat is bad, the mining is bad, the back story is bad, the character creation is unnecessary, the vehicles look awful, the systems look look boring and are repetitive and the UI is one of the worst. I could go on and on but I've made my point.
I agree with everything else you've said though.
People say that the skill system isn't a level grind but it is a money grind.

That pretty much sums up my view of Eve.  I think a lot of the ships look cool, but you don't usually see them up close anyway.  This game is just a pretty, boring screensaver.  It's flying toasters 2.0. ;)

I hate this assertion that playing Eve requires more intellect than other games.  What it requires is a high tolerance for tedium, low standards for content and very little desire to actually play a game.... since most of the time you are just watching it play itself and waiting for skills to level on their own.  Why is it that any time someone says this game is boring, the fanboys read that as too difficult.  I guess they mean the game is so boring that it's difficult to make yourself keep playing it. :)

Originally posted by Krisevol

 

Yeah, a story how he went to burger king while his ship was on autopilot somewhere 20 hops away.

Or how he waited offline for 2 years until skills were unlocked so he could pilot a decent ship.

 

Not sure how you autopilot 20 hops w/o dieing... oh wait your a carebear.  Move along please.

He probably had AP set to safesec.  Which kinda blows his whole point.

As i read most of the post couple things come to mind.

1. Most of the people disliking Eve did not play or played very little. Some are mimicking complaints of others to they're star count filled up.

2. Most of the people who disliked Eve are the instant gratification crowd meaning that when you level up you instantly and miracuously gain knowledge.

Not liking the ship designs i can understand. Not liking the storyline I can understand. Not liking just being a ship I can understand.  Not liking the missions or the mining I can understand.....BUT.....

It always seems to come back to 2 things,  hating on the skill que system and the noob vs the veteran player which in my opinion is pathetic. Did you not take time to get your high school diploma, college degree, grow up, arrange your dates with girlfriend /boyfriend, plan a trip to an overseas destination...I could go on.....but I dont need to. On the topic of noob vs Veteran. A noob can take out a veteran especially if the veteran let his guard down or is in a opposing fleet and the noob gets the kill.

IMO the Op was doing nothing more than just hating on the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH attacks Jits system with massive plunger barrage..hears maydays in glee)

I played EVE for about 6 months.  I don't think it sucks but honestly I'd rather play a MMO where I can run around on foot exploring dungeons and worlds.

I wish EVE would get together with some kind of modern AO, make it so you can transport down to a planet surface and have a whole new set of skills available for out of ship activities.  That would be a world record in coolness for a MMO =)

I do have to agree about the skill training thing though.  I'd rather be in direct control over my rate of progress, but that by itself doesn't make the game suck, although I could see how it would suck if you did nothing but train a skill and then log off and play WoW.

Regarding the OP no I dont agree, EVE is much more than just the skills, but it is a valid concern and they have started addressing this when they disabled learning on expired accounts because you had literally ppl creating accounts and only paying for them when they had to put one more skill to learn.

Edit: Cant be arsed with arguing.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by decoy26517

you forgot that it's BORING. the combat is bad, the mining is bad, the back story is bad, the character creation is unnecessary, the vehicles look awful, the systems look look boring and are repetitive and the UI is one of the worst. I could go on and on but I've made my point.
I agree with everything else you've said though.
People say that the skill system isn't a level grind but it is a money grind.

 

That pretty much sums up my view of Eve.  I think a lot of the ships look cool, but you don't usually see them up close anyway.  This game is just a pretty, boring screensaver.  It's flying toasters 2.0. ;)

I hate this assertion that playing Eve requires more intellect than other games.  What it requires is a high tolerance for tedium, low standards for content and very little desire to actually play a game.... since most of the time you are just watching it play itself and waiting for skills to level on their own.  Why is it that any time someone says this game is boring, the fanboys read that as too difficult.  I guess they mean the game is so boring that it's difficult to make yourself keep playing it. :)

Bingo!  Tolerance is the key.  The game is just sloooooooooow and tolerating that has nothing to do with someone's intellect.  Honestly, a really smart person would see right through all the time sinks CCP mashed into the game and realize you're paying a monthly fee to mostly chat or do other things.  CCP made sure everything takes ages to accomplish to keep you paying longer and people bought into it.   Everyone knows to play Eve you're not really playing 1/2 the time.  You're watching something happening, chatting, or logged off.  You just have to pay a monthly fee and log in every once in a while and you're "playing".   Eve is the only MMO where everything thats considered tedious in other MMOs is considered deep and thought provoking game play.    But people like it and if they like it, thats good enough for them.

I played EvE for a while, hoping it would get better and it never did.  I think EvE is a collection of all the things I hate about an MMO.

1.  I hate PvP and especially detest ganking.  EvE not only permits ganking, the whole economy is based on it.  People have to keep losing ships or the entire economy would collapse.

2.  I hate not being able to get out of the ship with a passion.  I don't want to play a ship.

3.  It really is a screensaver.  Most systems are extremely limited.  You've got a station or two and an asteroid field or two.  Otherwise, everything is just eye-candy.  Ooh, look at all the planets and moons you can never explore!

4.  The travel system is just boring.  I don't want to spend all my time going somewhere, the fun isn't in the long, boring, monotonous journey, it's in actually arriving somewhere and doing something.  You spend far more time going somewhere than you ever do doing anything.

5.  The training system is ridiculous, but for the same reason a lot of training systems are.  You can spend your day mining and be training non-mining skills.  In fact, you can spend all your time raising skills you've never once used.  Seems ridiculous.

6.  I can honestly say I was never impressed by any of the corps when I was playing.  I never had any real interest in joining up with any of them, but without joining, you're pretty much toast when you're forced to fly through low-sec space and the pile of gankers hanging around the gates waiting to pick people off show up.  That's jst not fun.

That's not necessarily saying that EvE is a bad game, it's simply not one that I have any interest whatsoever in playing, any more than I'd play *ANY* game that had a similar set of characteristics I hated.

 People in this thread sitting there bashing EVE are the kind of people that make this genre as a whole continue to fail.

EVE Online is an MMO. It has lots of people, it has gameplay, even if it isn't something you personally like.

Me, I tried it once, didn't care for it. But, I can appreciate it's uniqueness in the way it approaches grind and skills and the social aspect of MMOs.

So, bash it all you want. It doesn't make you look very intelligent.

It's like, anyone who tries anything different in MMOs 'sucks' and then the ones that do common place things 'suck'. What, praytell, doesn't suck to you people?

Eve tries something, it sucks. War tries the same thing as WoW and other games, and it sucks.

Such blatant hypocricy.

Anyways. Eve is cool. Ride on, spacemen. Even if I'm not into it myself, Ride on.

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

No just means your not a moron like the people who start threads like this.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

The main problem I have with this game is the skill training queue.. 

That says far more about you than it does Eve Online.

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

I liked it when I played it a few years back.  The first thing I did when I got past the tutorial was look for a corp.  I found one that was helpful and showed me the ropes.  After that corp split up I went to a bigger 0 sector corp and had fun there, too.  I quit because like many, I wanted a more "in your face" experience, but I still recognize Eve for the terrific game it is.  It's one of very few MMO's that pulls off the epic scale battles that so many dreamed MMO's would have.

I can see why a person might not like it, but to say it sucks is just stupetastic. It was clear that the OP doubtfully even made it through the tutorial, and doesn't know what they're talking about.  It's a niche game, but it works very well for that niche.  I'm interested to see what they do with the Dust plantary shooter and how it will interact with Eve.

To OP

I understand your sentiment, but personally I think the skill over time is not that bad.

It helps the casual players ( as you pointed out unintentionally ), because I can log on an hour, do some stuff, setup my skills ok and be gone for a few days. When I get back I have all these new shiny skills.

Sometimes, when I play more, it can be a little bit of a pain having to wait for a certain skill to complete, on the other hand, there is so much to learn, so much to do, that I can really keep myself busy and skills complete before I know it.

I am and advocate of a hybrid passive / active skill gain system and would like to see a sandbox released someday with such a system, but for EVE it is fine as it is imho, it works, perhaps some tweaks are possible, but the basics should stay.

Furthmore, they go in the right direction, by allowing the vets to lose skills with T3, so the newbs can catch up.

And there is also the built-in catch up system, because the higer the skill you want to learn, the more time it takes. So the difference between 6 months and 1 year is alot bigger than the difference 1 year and 1,5 years.

The travel system, hmm, you should not always autopilot, but I think you did not play long enough to understand that yet :p

Systems, yah they very much look alike, but asteroid, complex and station layouts and placement differ. Also got Womhole space.

Anyway, it is not a game for everyone, but it certainly does not suck, even tho I am currently not playing it myself.

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

Funny enough I can never play EVE for more than a couple months specificly because I feel that it limits my intellectual goals too much.  Whenever I try the game again, I get all gung ho about the complex systems and end up developing my own spreadsheets, run simulations and really get my brain cells going.  Then as the second month nears, I start feeling 'intellectual claustrophobia'.   I start feeling trapped and it seems that everytime I want to expand my game interests in the directions that have the most appeal to me, the game is piling barriers in front of me.  The game seems to try and force me into PvP and corp politics, areas I do not find to be that intellectually stimulating. 

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

 

Funny enough I can never play EVE for more than a couple months specificly because I feel that it limits my intellectual goals too much.  Whenever I try the game again, I get all gung ho about the complex systems and end up developing my own spreadsheets, run simulations and really get my brain cells going.  Then as the second month nears, I start feeling 'intellectual claustrophobia'.   I start feeling trapped and it seems that everytime I want to expand my game interests in the directions that have the most appeal to me, the game is piling barriers in front of me.  The game seems to try and force me into PvP and corp politics, areas I do not find to be that intellectually stimulating. 

How are Corp Politics not intellectually stimulating or do you just lack the skills that are required to succeed in this.

Ah, yet another WoW fan gets confused because EVE does not hold his hand all the way through to the 'endgame'.

EVE has loads of faults, but it's still the best MMORPG there is. How so you ask? This genre sucks hairy ass, thats why.

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Borkotron

You either love or hate EVE Online. I personally love EVE Online and is my primary MMO. I pride myself on this fact since what it says about me as a gamer is that I lean more towards intellectual games. Those who can't get into EVE Online, well, yeah, there are plenty of lesser "hold my hand, mommy" games out there for you to play. :)

But why make a thread like this? I think so many other MMOs suck but I don't go around making threads about it. I just don't get it. Maybe I'm not so smart after all.....

 

Funny enough I can never play EVE for more than a couple months specificly because I feel that it limits my intellectual goals too much.  Whenever I try the game again, I get all gung ho about the complex systems and end up developing my own spreadsheets, run simulations and really get my brain cells going.  Then as the second month nears, I start feeling 'intellectual claustrophobia'.   I start feeling trapped and it seems that everytime I want to expand my game interests in the directions that have the most appeal to me, the game is piling barriers in front of me.  The game seems to try and force me into PvP and corp politics, areas I do not find to be that intellectually stimulating. 

How are Corp Politics not intellectually stimulating or do you just lack the skills that are required to succeed in this.

There is way too much personal drama, backstabbing and personal powerplays which I find just plain dumb.  It's too much like watching a bad soap opera.

I find it hilarious that the only response from the Eve fan base is: "OMG YOU DON'T LIKE OUR GAME! ZOMG YOU MUST SUK & B STUPID @ IT, GO BAK TO WOW NOOB!"

You'll probably find a more charitable community in a place like Xbox live or AoC.

Originally posted by decoy26517

I find it hilarious that the only response from the Eve fan base is: "OMG YOU DON'T LIKE OUR GAME! ZOMG YOU MUST SUK & B STUPID @ IT, GO BAK TO WOW NOOB!"

You'll probably find a more charitable community in a place like Xbox live or AoC.

I also find it hilarious that most of the stuff the OP complained about and alot of people complain are things that we EVE players find intuitive. I don't know about you but the UI is understandable, I dont know about you but I like Autopiloting 20 jumps so I can cook something for myself, I don't know about you but I like the fact that I can kick the ass of a person whose been playing longer than me. Seriously, if you can't understand the core gameplay of eve or what a sandbox is don't play the game. The OP sounds like he didn't know what eve was about and only checked it out to say if it sucked for him or not and he probably clicked that ad he was talking about and got played the game for only 14 days.

In eve if you focus and plan your time you will become successful, you can't let the game tell you what to do or else you will be bored, maybe what eve fails at is telling you the possibilties that are available to you from the get go and in that respect I agree.