example eve online give 3 milions trials and have 300k subscriptions

if darkfall give trials how may of them will remain in game on your opinion ?

5-10%. Minimal. Retention rates will drop after that, too. Why? Well, most people who try it will be those dreaded, hated, stupid anti-WoW nerd kid noobs who don't belong in Darkfall anyways. Those few who decide they like it or those who don't come from WoW and enjoy full-loot FFA PvP (and who can stomach lame graphics/models/animations) will stay. When Mortal Online, Earthrise, and other similar games come out, lots of people will jump ship. They're only playing Darkfall because there's nothing better.

Originally posted by cosy

example eve online give 3 milions trials and have 300k subscriptions

 

if darkfall give trials how may of them will remain in game on your opinion ?

One thing to remember as well with the numbers you used above.  A good number of EvE players started playing the game without a trial.  They either bought the box at release, or just started playing it from a recommendation from a friend.

So, even in EvE's case the 3 million trials didn't = 300k subscriptions.

If I had to guess, I would think the real retention rate for trials (no matter what MMO) is around 5%.  That might not sound like a very high figure, but it a pretty good return on investment for a MMO once they've developed the basics for the trial.

They just need to tweak the trial from time to time and do other promotions that get the name out there for people to recognize.

Despite the resistance from some DarkFall fans (both here and on the official boards) I too think that a trial is only a matter of time.  Aventurine would be extremely stupid to never offer a Free Trial.  It's been a proven MMO mechanism for delivering new players. 

All MMOs need new players.  DarkFall is the same as any other MMO in that regard. 

My estimation would be that the %of people that are gonna keep playing Darkfall past the free trial are less than the % of rainy days the Sahara desert has within a year.

But i might be over-exaggerating a bit.......there might not even be that many left in the end.

EDIT: Still that doesn't mean that the trial is a bad idea altogether ; from what i see it's a pretty sensible way but then again Aventurine isn't known for it's close affiliation with logic.

Originally posted by egotrip

My estimation would be that the %of people that are gonna keep playing Darkfall past the free trial are less than the % of rainy days the Sahara desert has within a year.

But i might be over-exaggerating a bit.......there might not even be that many left in the end.

Careful, Darkfall fans may come in and claim (with genuine, undeniable evidence, of course!) how the Sahara will turn into the tropical Rainforest in a couple of years because of all the (imminent!) rainfall.

Ahhhh you ninja'd me while i was editing

Originally posted by egotrip

Ahhhh you ninja'd me while i was editing

Doesn't matter, the trial is a good idea. But the rainfall comment was too juicy not to be left unanswered.

How play of them stay in game? Ermm well as the question doesnt make any sense at all, the only suitable answer I can think of is "Lots of game in play avatars much"......or you could just jumble those words up into some other order if your prefer.

i say if darkfall get trials  the rate will be next to 0,5-1%

plain trials in darkfall whit out buddy thing or some kind of limitation can be deathly for the game

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

If they did that then the retention rate would be 0%, there is nothing else to do besides roaming around and kill goblins. I dont really get the DFO fans, they boast so much about how great the PVP is and the first oportunity to show it to other ppl they want it blocked for 20hours lol.

On the other hand what you are saying is, "lets shield the real game for 20hours (the endless gank fest that would keep away any sane person) then when they get sucked in show them how it really is". Also 20hours is not one day for most mmo gamers to some ppl it could be the entire duration of a 14 day trial.

I say have it as it is, no need for new quest areas or special things if its really that good ppl will play it as it is no need to change anything, unless ofc you have been lying to ppl all along.

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

Would that not defeat the purpose of having a trial in the first place?

Throw them in the deep end of pool from the get-go. To do otherwise would be disingenuous.

To hear most of the fans tell it, any player that can't "hang", isn't wanted in the game anyway.

i misread the title and thought that df had trials now, i was dissapointed :(

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

that is not the best solution imo in my opinion AV need to find one why ppl leaving and what things make the ppl leave and fix that issues in order to keep new player in game and the game remain on the same track

this good fixes take time need to be based on ingame statistics (you know Av track everything ) not on forum post or polls

numbers beat any assumption and logic

i am not tasos but if i was in it place i was demanding a excel sheet each week whit data from player stats to reagents on clan banks

If they had a trial some ppl will sub to the game...but as it stands now Adventurine hasnt figured that out yet. Hope they see the light as i'd love to try out the game.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH fires plunger at Tasos'a office window with note saying....Trials please)

Originally posted by Comnitus

5-10%. Minimal. Retention rates will drop after that, too. Why? Well, most people who try it will be those dreaded, hated, stupid anti-WoW nerd kid noobs who don't belong in Darkfall anyways. Those few who decide they like it or those who don't come from WoW and enjoy full-loot FFA PvP (and who can stomach lame graphics/models/animations) will stay. When Mortal Online, Earthrise, and other similar games come out, lots of people will jump ship. They're only playing Darkfall because there's nothing better.

Call me a fanboi or w/e you want but tbh if people dont want to play DF because of the graphics/animations theyre kinda missing the whole point of the game. A free trial would be incredibly hard to intergrate to avoid trial accounts just being made and used for resource gathering etc. There is also the fact that the first month of darkfall is a test of nerve - seeing how many times you can lose everything and still keep playing.

After you get over the initial pain of darkfall its really quite fun. Tbh graphics are the last thing your thinking about when your killing someone eh?

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

sorry for double post but i agree.

There needs to be some sort of newbie island type thing separate from the main df world to give people a taste of how darkfall is but without dropping them straight in at the deep end. This would make free trials work as then people cant start accounts just to use as alts for mining/logging.

Would also give new players a chance to make friends/guilds before they are dropped into the "real world"

Originally posted by cosy

example eve online give 3 milions trials and have 300k subscriptions

 

if darkfall give trials how may of them will remain in game on your opinion ?

It depends.

AV needs to make the game newby friendly................and by that I don't mean to carebear the PVP
What I mean is to add more stuff to do for the first few months, until the players starts becoming competitive in PvP (against the veterans).

As it is now, new players cannot really PvP successfully for the first few months, and if they cannot do that, there is little else they can do to keep their interest in the game.
The only alternative is to get in a clan, but not everyone like to play in a clan.
Most of the people like to play alone, so something needs to be done for them.

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

 

If they did that then the retention rate would be 0%, there is nothing else to do besides roaming around and kill goblins. I dont really get the DFO fans, they boast so much about how great the PVP is and the first oportunity to show it to other ppl they want it blocked for 20hours lol.

On the other hand what you are saying is, "lets shield the real game for 20hours (the endless gank fest that would keep away any sane person) then when they get sucked in show them how it really is". Also 20hours is not one day for most mmo gamers to some ppl it could be the entire duration of a 14 day trial.

I say have it as it is, no need for new quest areas or special things if its really that good ppl will play it as it is no need to change anything, unless ofc you have been lying to ppl all along.

MO is doing a 20hr pvp invuln shield that can be deactivated by the player. Its done so a person can get a feel for the game first, without having to worry about getting ganked on top of learning the game. Darkfall and MO have UI that is drastically different than what most people are used to, FFA PvP isn't something most people are used to, and neither is full loot. Its the nature of the game. Hell, even EvE has a newbie zone. If a newbie zone/invuln shield will get people to actually stay subbed to the game rather than quitting the day they buy the game I'm all for it, although I don't want people who will quit becuase they die a lot. I can understand people who quit becuase they die a lot and can't learn the game. Gotta get your feet wet first before diving in. It was ok to not have the newbie zone/pvp invuln shield when the game was new and everyone was low level.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by xpiher

The only way trials would actually retain a % of players that produces profit is if AV eases noob/newbies into the game with tough kid gloves. Something like a 10hr-20hr PvP invulnerability shield, or the questing area that eve has, etc

 

If they did that then the retention rate would be 0%, there is nothing else to do besides roaming around and kill goblins. I dont really get the DFO fans, they boast so much about how great the PVP is and the first oportunity to show it to other ppl they want it blocked for 20hours lol.

On the other hand what you are saying is, "lets shield the real game for 20hours (the endless gank fest that would keep away any sane person) then when they get sucked in show them how it really is". Also 20hours is not one day for most mmo gamers to some ppl it could be the entire duration of a 14 day trial.

I say have it as it is, no need for new quest areas or special things if its really that good ppl will play it as it is no need to change anything, unless ofc you have been lying to ppl all along.

 

MO is doing a 20hr pvp invuln shield that can be deactivated by the player. Its done so a person can get a feel for the game first, without having to worry about getting ganked on top of learning the game. Darkfall and MO have UI that is drastically different than what most people are used to, FFA PvP isn't something most people are used to, and neither is full loot. Its the nature of the game. Hell, even EvE has a newbie zone. If a newbie zone/invuln shield will get people to actually stay subbed to the game rather than quitting the day they buy the game I'm all for it, although I don't want people who will quit becuase they die a lot. I can understand people who quit becuase they die a lot and can't learn the game. Gotta get your feet wet first before diving in. It was ok to not have the newbie zone/pvp invuln shield when the game was new and everyone was low level.

what about a newbie zone/island where goods/items are not transferable to the rest of agon to give players a change to figure out how the game works before theyre dropped in with the vets?

I don't think AV would be able to give out free trials.  The servers wouldn't be able to handle it.  A free trial would draw in thousands that just want to see one of the more notorious games out..  They would want to see what the controversy is all about.  If they ever did release a free trial, it would have to be on a limited basis, kind of like the launch. 

Originally posted by Comnitus

5-10%. Minimal. Retention rates will drop after that, too. Why? Well, most people who try it will be those dreaded, hated, stupid anti-WoW nerd kid noobs who don't belong in Darkfall anyways. Those few who decide they like it or those who don't come from WoW and enjoy full-loot FFA PvP (and who can stomach lame graphics/models/animations) will stay. When Mortal Online, Earthrise, and other similar games come out, lots of people will jump ship. They're only playing Darkfall because there's nothing better.

No. Mortal Online is definitely unable to compete with Darkfall unless they push the release date back. It's already November and the game is absolutely horrible. Everything in this game is buggy or extremely unpolished. The ideas in it are good but they aren't implemented properly (either bugs affecting it or it just sucks). The game can be considered alpha because there are barely any features in MO. Let me explain why it is still crappy (vaguely so I don't spill everything)

- Harvesting not completed

- Recently added housing is basic and boring

- Rocky combat animations and nasty monster AI/ movement

- All basic things are buggy including the UI, buying items from vendor

- Nothing to do except walk around, look at boring landscapes

- Tons of unoptimized areas (laggy)

- Archery sucks

- Magic sucks

- You have to download the entire client again when they release new content (it gets annoying)

-

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

 No. Mortal Online is definitely unable to compete with Darkfall unless they push the release date back. It's already November and the game is absolutely horrible. Everything in this game is buggy or extremely unpolished. The ideas in it are good but they aren't implemented properly (either bugs affecting it or it just sucks). The game can be considered alpha because there are barely any features in MO. Let me explain why it is still crappy (vaguely so I don't spill everything)

- Harvesting not completed

- Recently added housing is basic and boring

- Rocky combat animations and nasty monster AI/ movement

- All basic things are buggy including the UI, buying items from vendor

- Nothing to do except walk around, look at boring landscapes

- Tons of unoptimized areas (laggy)

- Archery sucks

- Magic sucks

- You have to download the entire client again when they release new content (it gets annoying)

 

-

I'll be a monkey's uncle if the highlighted parts in red weren't the exact same ones that everyone (fanbots excluded) complained about when Darkfall released (and still do for some of them housing,char,animations, UI , archery-melee-magic not implemented correctly or unbalanced) and the part in yellow is were Darkfall actually meets MO

Originally posted by junzo316

I don't think AV would be able to give out free trials.  The servers wouldn't be able to handle it.  A free trial would draw in thousands that just want to see one of the more notorious games out..  They would want to see what the controversy is all about.  If they ever did release a free trial, it would have to be on a limited basis, kind of like the launch. 

i dont see that a problem in eve online the max trial accounts log-in on same time is 3000(dunno if increased) limiting the trials log-in is a good idea

ITT: ppl cant stay on topic about trials and they must flame about features if you want to talk about feature make your own threads or you dont know how to start one ffs  n00bs

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

 No. Mortal Online is definitely unable to compete with Darkfall unless they push the release date back. It's already November and the game is absolutely horrible. Everything in this game is buggy or extremely unpolished. The ideas in it are good but they aren't implemented properly (either bugs affecting it or it just sucks). The game can be considered alpha because there are barely any features in MO. Let me explain why it is still crappy (vaguely so I don't spill everything)

- Harvesting not completed

- Recently added housing is basic and boring

- Rocky combat animations and nasty monster AI/ movement

- All basic things are buggy including the UI, buying items from vendor

- Nothing to do except walk around, look at boring landscapes

- Tons of unoptimized areas (laggy)

- Archery sucks

- Magic sucks

- You have to download the entire client again when they release new content (it gets annoying)

 

-

I'll be a monkey's uncle if the highlighted parts in red weren't the exact same ones that everyone (fanbots excluded) complained about when Darkfall released (and still do for some of them housing,char,animations, UI , archery-melee-magic not implemented correctly or unbalanced) and the part in yellow is were Darkfall actually meets MO

exactly......but thats his point. Darkfall fixed the problems it had at launch now and MO still has these problems (ie darkfall is always going to be a step ahead of MO)

personally if u say that darkfall has no features

(The game can be considered alpha because there are barely any features in MO. >> part in yellow is were Darkfall actually meets MO) then i dont believe you've played the game...

Clan conquest.... player housing... villages... naval fights, 100s vs 100s fights... unique crafting (like enchanting for example).... FFA Full loot pvp... where to stop?