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Originally posted by Anubisan
Just because he plays WoW that means he likes to Solo? Sometimes I wonder if people have even actually played WoW. The entire end-game consists of raids and other instances which ALL require GROUPs. Not my point. I should have been more clear. "There are better games out there I can play without a subscription", does he mean SPRPGs? If so I already said what I think about this. Soloing in a SPRPG =/= Soloing in a MMO.
Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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maskedweasel
Elite Member
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
Again, not sure where all the fuss is coming from. Devs already said this game will have both types of content, and scalable missions. Theres no real reason to debate it as we have little in terms of actual evidence to what extent the content will be solo friendly or forced group content. Sounds to me there will be a cool medium.
The real shame in the OP is that he said FE failed. Thats what the real argument should be over.... Fallen Earth Rocks! |
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FFXI (despite it's glaring flaws) had pretty good forced grouping. You COULD NOT level up without a group. Now, I'm not saying that is ideal. (To me, the ideal is offering players the choice of soloing for a reasonable amount of XP, or grouping for substantially more XP than they could solo in the same amount of time). What did happen in FFXI, though, is that people learned the game through leveling up. It was rare to find someone at higher levels that did not know how to do their job in a group. The other thing that system bred was a sense of accomplishment. I can only speak for myself, but after leveling 6 toons to the level cap in WoW (2 were 60, 2 were 70, 2 are 80) there is very little challenge at all in order to make you feel like you did something worthwhile. Take a genre where reaching endgame always takes a long time, remove any challenge, and all that is really left is timesink. I honestly think that unless you enjoy reading the lore, the entire WOW leveling experience is shallow, boring and although there are a lot of tools for making it faster (up to 30% xp bonus from BoA items now) it is nevertheless nothing but a grind. Personally, I can not say there is a single game out there that has hit this balance I speak of. WoW is so polished, and is a great game for those who still enjoy it. I can't say anything bad about the solo-friendly model towards people who truly enjoy it. However, for me, and anyone else seeking a challenge that doesn't start at the level cap, seeing more MMOs shift to group-oriented (but solo-friendly) designs would be a welcome change. ------ |
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The only thing that bugs me with most group only content in games is that it always leaves a part of the game unexplorable or unseen due to a playstyle. I dont see why most mmo's that have instanced dungeons, dont have those dungeons scale with the group size. So no matter how many people go in, it will be a challenge. Blizzard did this with Diablo, so I dont know why they didnt with WoW. It's like buying a ticket to go into a themepark (a fitting analogy) and not being allowed on the best rides unless you showed up at the park with 5 other friends to ride with or talked 5 other random people in the crowd to ride with you. Even though everyone paid the same price to get into the park.
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Except 1-80 is pretty much an entirely solo experience. Azeroth is almost completely barren of people. So I have to ask, have YOU actually played WoW? |
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maskedweasel
Elite Member
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
Originally posted by rodingo
See, as much as scalability is great, I dislike it greatly... sure its great to always have a challenge, but one thing I don't like is it feels like it kills progression for me.
I like to be able to see my progress and power throughout the game... it kind of adds to immersion in both group and solo play for me. As a solo player its kinda cool to know that one particular quest or monster absolutely needs a group. As much as it would be cool to solo that monster, it wouldn't make sense story wise to say it took 4 other people to kill the same monster that I came in and killed by myself.
Thats just me though.... |
Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero Fix'd But you're right. Really people can say what they want, but.....in WoW, anything you can do grouped I can do solo. Even end game is soloable in a certain way. "Like these epic shoulders you waited to drop in Naxx? ty AH."
Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by rodingo
because of a playstyle? no thats a play choice and its YOUR problem that you don't see all the content. my wife is an uber casual player but because she doesn't pout and cry every time she has to join a group (like most soloers) she has seen almost all the content in EQ2.
the developers are not excluding content from you... YOU are excluding content from yourself with your self righteous "I only solo in games!" atttitude. |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
because of a playstyle? no thats a play choice and its YOUR problem that you don't see all the content. my wife is an uber casual player but because she doesn't pout and cry every time she has to join a group (like most soloers) she has seen almost all the content in EQ2.
the developers are no excluding content from you... YOU are excluding content from yourself with your self righteous "I only solo in games!" Spending the night grouped for 6 hours to down a boss for teh phat lootz with 20 idiots is not my idea of "choice". It's not a solo players fault. Instances should scale, where one player can clear the place. He receives loot that is not close to matching group loot, yet he sees all the content. Happy solo player. But you think what you want. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Well, to imagine a SWTOR gameplay you just have to look at classes. I mean what was the main reason to give a heavy armor to Jedi Knigt? I'm almost sure he is planned to play a main tank role for guild raids. So yeah, perhaps there will be alotta solo content, but we all know what content will be the most desired. Perhaps there will be instanced PvE vs faction bosses (kill that sith lord for good guys or that Jedi Master for bads), perhaps they will need raid to kill that crayt dragon beast, but SWTOR will be another raiding social-network-like MMO crap. |
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Originally posted by greed0104 Spending the night grouped for 6 hours to down a boss for teh phat lootz with 20 idiots is not my idea of "choice". It's not a solo players fault. Instances should scale, where one player can clear the place. He receives loot that is not close to matching group loot, yet he sees all the content. Happy solo player. But you think what you want.
or maybe they are the only idiot there for not finding another guild. And it is a choice not like there is only one guild per server. you don't like the guild your with go join another guild with better people.
oh but thats right they are soloers, so cant see past thier own soloing nose and realize they aren't that friggen special. |
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Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
1-80 can be achieved through boring solo-grind in 2 weeks. Most players are already 80. His 21 hours of WoW were likely spent raiding ... The real problem with WoW can be seen in my last paragraph - you're either leveling (boring, grind) or raiding (cool the first few times, gets old, then gets really old ...), or playing BGs. The world itself is boring once you've seen it all. Crafting is nearly useless. Nothing is challenging solo, unless you're just trying to solo group content 10 levels below you ... Overall ... boring. And I've played for 5 years (just unsubbed 3 weeks ago) ------ |
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Originally posted by chrisel
i understand where you coming from but i think its ass backwards. WOW is the only game that has had a ton of solo content and has been that successful. nothing else has come close, not even the clones. The only other game that hits the millions is FFXI with 2 million last i checked and it is the absolute opposite of WOW. |
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Originally posted by Ravanos Spending the night grouped for 6 hours to down a boss for teh phat lootz with 20 idiots is not my idea of "choice". It's not a solo players fault. Instances should scale, where one player can clear the place. He receives loot that is not close to matching group loot, yet he sees all the content. Happy solo player. But you think what you want.
or maybe they are the only idiot there for not finding another guild. And it is a choice not like there is only one guild per server. you don't like the guild your with go join another guild with better people. Push that panic button some more. Why are you against letting people see content? It make you sad somebody got to see the dragon fall over dead by themselves? You're seriously a moron, and I say that without being an asshole, just truth. What exactly makes you believe solo players are not in a guild? Lots of solo players join guilds, but prefer to follow their own path, without anybody to distract or lead them. Giving the person the option to solo content while receiving less then amazing rewards is the best idea for a game like this. Anyways, idiot, you keep choosing to be carried. Because you actually suck at the game you play. : ) Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
because of a playstyle? no thats a play choice and its YOUR problem that you don't see all the content. my wife is an uber casual player but because she doesn't pout and cry every time she has to join a group (like most soloers) she has seen almost all the content in EQ2.
the developers are not excluding content from you... YOU are excluding content from yourself with your self righteous "I only solo in games!" atttitude. Jesus, relax. Elitist much?
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Originally posted by greed0104
im not, and they can see all the content if they get over their "groupaphobia". no content is excluded at all from anyone.
theres 4 pillars of a MMO, Solo, group, Raid and crafting .... if you don't partake in some of the pillars thats your problem not the developers.
why are soloist so elitist that they think all content should be catered to them? |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
im not, and they can see all the content if they get over their "groupaphobia". no content is excluded at all from anyone.
theres 4 pillars of a MMO, Solo, group, Raid and crafting .... if you don't partake in some of the pillars thats your problem not the developers.
why are soloist so elitist that they think all content should be catered to them? Hilarious, now it's a phobia, are we playing this little game now? So what does that make people that like to group, afraid to be a lone? Content is excluded from solo players, see that "Solo Players", that generally means a players play style is to be his own man, do his own things, without the distraction of you if he so chooses. It's not a phobia, it's quite a normal thing. There is 5 pillars to this mmo, one being story. Excluding SOLO PLAYERS from seeing story is a bad thing, allowing them to down a boss by themselve and witness the story is a great thing. We aren't elitists, it's you that are the elitist here. I already said content should be soloable with less then amazing rewards, you being in a group still allows you to see the content, and still allows you take gather far better rewards. But that's not cool with you, everybody must group, everybody must spend hours in a place with 20 people barking over vent. Look we can do this all day, you will lose though, bro. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
I applaud the irony here. Anyone who doesn't want games to be easy and completely soloable is labeled an "elitist" by people who want everything to be handed to them for nothing but a few boring hours of solo-grinding that could be done more efficiently by a bot ... ------ |
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Originally posted by greed0104 Hilarious, now it's a phobia, are we playing this little game now? So what does that make people that like to group, afraid to be a lone? Content is excluded from solo players, see that "Solo Players", that generally means a players play style is to be his own man, do his own things, without the distraction of you if he so chooses. It's not a phobia, it's quite a normal thing.
there is no such thing as SOLO players, just like there is no such thing as Raiders (those who ONLY raid) and Groupers (those who only group). there are Players, thats IT. those who raid and those who group know that sometimes those aren't going to happen so they move on to other pillars to get by but for whatever reason the "soloer" feel they should be able to do everything without moving into the other pillars at all. So phobia or being a hermit or maybe they just suck at games but its THEIR issue not the game. |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
Sure thing, no such thing as groupers (people that prefer to group) or soloers (people that prefer to solo) makes sense ( not really). If you have not noticed, the entire time you have been answering with absolutes, so I started doing the same. Let me answer this with a truthful answer. Soloers do not see themselves entitled to much, actually most if not all understand why groupers have access to better equipment. Equipment makes your character stronger, better and helps you help your teammates further. Solo players just want gear to help them get through things by themselves, something that wont make them all powerful, something that will allow them to see everything with there own eyes, they don't need super gear or anything crazy. They wan't to experience the game as a whole by themselves or with 3-4 friends, some of them feel they don't have the time to group, some just prefer to play with a handful of friends, some just prefer playing a lone. And most if not all would love to see the end game content, but don't have the access or feel like grouping to see it. It's fine you prefer to group, nobody is bashing you for that, but you have to understand, some actually want to solo, it's there calling it's how they enjoy the game. And restricting them from seeing where the game is at the end is a bad move. So my suggestion was to allow solo players "in a game like this" (story based) to experience end game story alone if they choose. They get mediocre gear but they experience the game completely. While a Grouper can still see end game, he still enjoys the company of others, and still receives better rewards.
Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by greed0104
Sure thing, no such thing as groupers (people that prefer to group) or soloers (people that prefer to solo) makes sense ( not really). I said ONLY group or ONLY raid for a reason, because thats in line with the elite soloer. the MAJORITY of the soloers ONLY Solo. thats why its a choice and not a playstyle If you have not noticed, the entire time you have been answering with absolutes, so I started doing the same. Let me answer this with a truthful answer. Soloers do not see themselves entitled to much, actually most if not all understand why groupers have access to better equipment. Equipment makes your character stronger, better and helps you help your teammates further. Solo players just want gear to help them get through things by themselves, something that wont make them all powerful, something that will allow them to see everything with there own eyes, they don't need super gear or anything crazy. They wan't to experience the game as a whole by themselves or with 3-4 friends, some of them feel they don't have the time to group, some just prefer to play with a handful of friends, some just prefer playing a lone. And most if not all would love to see the end game content, but don't have the access or feel like grouping to see it. It's fine you prefer to group, nobody is bashing you for that, but you have to understand, some actually want to solo, it's there calling it's how they enjoy the game. And restricting them from seeing where the game is at the end is a bad move. You and the solo union should get your stories straight, because in every other forum you say "soloers should get loot to help them but nothing powerful" and you will get flamed to high heaven. Many Soloers want raid quality loot from soloing. So my suggestion was to allow solo players "in a game like this" (story based) to experience end game story alone if they choose. They get mediocre gear but they experience the game completely. While a Grouper can still see end game, he still enjoys the company of others, and still receives better rewards.
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Originally posted by chrisel First off, Fallen Earth wasn't remotely a failure, its turning into a very large success.
Second, if you want solo playing, don't play an MMORPG? |
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Originally posted by Ravanos
Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by SignusM
Direct him to a SPRPG with a persistant world, the ability to interact with massive amount of players in one area or take part in PvP. Me:You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses, what happened here? |
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Originally posted by greed0104
Direct him to a SPRPG with a persistant world, the ability to interact with massive amount of players in one area or take part in PvP. It's called a single player game with a chat room built in. Try Oblivion.
This game does not have a persistant world, because persistant worlds are not instanced. You will never see massive amounts of people because instances don't allow everyone in the same instance. PvP means absolutely nothing if its boxed into its own little FPS server zone with no impact on the actual game world. |
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