Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Kaocan

Well then, I think we all have it figured out now, If the game we are discussing is EVE its a sandbox, if the game we are disccussing is ANYTHING ELSE than its not. So why again are we discussing this if its so OBVIOUS to at least one of us.

And I always wanted to say this - GO BACK TO EVE! (oops I mean graphical Trade Wars).

:)

 

 

Not at all, your just trying to generalize to prove some point.  I'm not exactly sure what that point is.  There are, and have been, several games that would be accurately described as a sandbox.  Someone listed them just a few posts ago.

I don't play Fallen Earth, I gave it a shot and found it lacking.  I simply take exception to people describing it as a "sandbox" on these boards.  People come to these boards for information on games they would potentially like to buy and sub to.  Saying this game has sandbox characteristics is very misleading, because frankly it doesn't.

Frankly that's your uninformed opinion. It's also wrong. Most of the features you claim exclude FE from being sandbox are also present in the games you're describing as sandbox. I still say it's the wrong question and asking the wrong questions doesn't give you right answers.

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Kaocan

Well then, I think we all have it figured out now, If the game we are discussing is EVE its a sandbox, if the game we are disccussing is ANYTHING ELSE than its not. So why again are we discussing this if its so OBVIOUS to at least one of us.

And I always wanted to say this - GO BACK TO EVE! (oops I mean graphical Trade Wars).

:)

 

 

Not at all, your just trying to generalize to prove some point.  I'm not exactly sure what that point is.  There are, and have been, several games that would be accurately described as a sandbox.  Someone listed them just a few posts ago.

I don't play Fallen Earth, I gave it a shot and found it lacking.  I simply take exception to people describing it as a "sandbox" on these boards.  People come to these boards for information on games they would potentially like to buy and sub to.  Saying this game has sandbox characteristics is very misleading, because frankly it doesn't.

I highlighted some interesting stuff you just wrote. It looks like (rather you admit it or not), that you are just another bandwagon troll jumping on the hate train.

Out of curiosity, what is the "sandbox" game you play?

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Kaocan

Well then, I think we all have it figured out now, If the game we are discussing is EVE its a sandbox, if the game we are disccussing is ANYTHING ELSE than its not. So why again are we discussing this if its so OBVIOUS to at least one of us.

And I always wanted to say this - GO BACK TO EVE! (oops I mean graphical Trade Wars).

:)

 

 

Not at all, your just trying to generalize to prove some point.  I'm not exactly sure what that point is.  There are, and have been, several games that would be accurately described as a sandbox.  Someone listed them just a few posts ago.

I don't play Fallen Earth, I gave it a shot and found it lacking.  I simply take exception to people describing it as a "sandbox" on these boards.  People come to these boards for information on games they would potentially like to buy and sub to.  Saying this game has sandbox characteristics is very misleading, because frankly it doesn't.

I highlighted some interesting stuff you just wrote. It looks like (rather you admit it or not), that you are just another bandwagon troll jumping on the hate train.

Out of curiosity, what is the "sandbox" game you play?

I no longer play fallen Earth.  Is that more clear?  I played the game in beta, I bought the game because I initially enjoyed it.  I got up to about lev 37 and ran out of steam.  The game didn't hold me.  That has nothing to do with how I'd categorize it as a game.

I've never said its a bad game, I said I believed it could have been much better if it has chosen a different play-style.

I'm not on the "hate train".  I'm not trolling.  I have experience with the game and I'm discussing whether it merits being called a "sandbox".  

You are acting like a fanboy.  Just because I'm telling you your game isn't a sandbox you automatically assume I'm putting it down and I'm trolling.  I'm not attacking your game, I'm just telling you its a themepark.  If you take exception to that, well that sucks.  I happen to enjoy a lot of theme-park games myself.

As for my "sandbox" games.  I've played UO, pre-NG SWG,  Darkfall, and Eve.  Out of those, Eve is the only one thats still worth playing, and I keep an active subscription to it which I play alongside other games(usually a themepark, currently Aion). 

Frankly that's your uninformed opinion. It's also wrong. Most of the features you claim exclude FE from being sandbox are also present in the games you're describing as sandbox. I still say it's the wrong question and asking the wrong questions doesn't give you right answers.

Uninformed?  Enlighten me how I'm uninformed?  I've probably spent more hours in FE than 95% of the posters on this board.  I've also played multiple games of both the "sandbox" and "themepark" variety dating all the way back to MUDS.

No game contains 100% sandbox elements, but several games contain enough of those elements that they can be accurately described as a sandbox.  FE is not one of those games.  Please try and tell me how FE could be considered a sandbox MMO w/out falling back on definitions that describe sandbox single player games... which are an absolutely different thing altogether.

I can't find your list of the "right questions".  Somehow I believe they have absolutely no bearing what-so-ever on whether a game can be classified as a sandbox. 

Sandbox is a label, and we label things defined on certain characteristics.   If something sounds like a cat, looks like a cat, walks like a cat, smells like a cat, and acts like a cat... well I'll be damned if its not a cat.  FE is a dog.

I just find it funny how this thread was started to find out what kind of gameplay the title contains, and for about the first 7 replies OP got a little constructive feedback. Looking at the thread now though you wouldn't know it since it was derailed into a semantics argument over the definition of what a sandbox is.

On topic though, I find it to have many free forms of progression.... hell I gained 3 lvls last night doing nothing but scavenging and crafting. The leveling seems to be a little slower than that of previously played MMO's (which is a breath of fresh air to me) and not once have I felt rushed to lvl. No predefined classes so you see less arguments over how you're supposed to play x class. Quests are much less linear than other games ( no finish questing here, then get a quest to move you to the next desired lvling area ) you can quest in several locations whenever you like. So far I've been able to craft 90% of all the gear I have equipped instead of having to quest for it. Haven't had to buy ANY crafting mats from a vendor because I have the drive to go out and get it for myself. When my 15 day trial ends I'm going to sub because I've had more fun in this game in 1 week than I have with months of gameplay from most of these others.

Sandbox = the ability of a player to do what they wish within the boundaries of the gameworld. It's no different from the real world, you can do whatever you want withing the limits of the law.

Some people refuse to see the sandbox elements of FE because they don't like FE.  It's really that simple.  FE has several elements that would clearly be defined as sandbox, yet the trolls keep claiming how thats not true.  In another thread I was told "not to use FE and EVE in the same sentence"  by that misinformed troll thats on this thread saying the same thing. 

One of the main components of a sandbox game is the tools or "freedoms" it provides to players.  In FE you can be any type of crafter you want, any type of hybrid player as well (which most of us will end up being no doubt), align yourself with any faction you want, and do any mission you want (so far at level 10 I have not found any mission line that I was forced to do).  The game has sectors based on the amount of skills one has developed however nothings stopping you from going where ever you want (you just may end up dead though).  All in all I find the game to provide me as a player alot of freedoms that I have seldom experienced in all my time gaming.

I am not sure what the obsession is with some people to deride FE.  Is FE pure sandbox? no it isnt.  Does it have important sandbox elements? Yes it does.  No one is saying its pure sandbox, and what game is? 

Can we build almost anything we can see? Can we make out own cities? Can we claim land and alter it? If not then it's not a sandbox. Although it could still have sandbox like elements in it.

Originally posted by Cochran1

I just find it funny how this thread was started to find out what kind of gameplay the title contains, and for about the first 7 replies OP got a little constructive feedback. Looking at the thread now though you wouldn't know it since it was derailed into a semantics argument over the definition of what a sandbox is.

On topic though, I find it to have many free forms of progression.... hell I gained 3 lvls last night doing nothing but scavenging and crafting. The leveling seems to be a little slower than that of previously played MMO's (which is a breath of fresh air to me) and not once have I felt rushed to lvl. No predefined classes so you see less arguments over how you're supposed to play x class. Quests are much less linear than other games ( no finish questing here, then get a quest to move you to the next desired lvling area ) you can quest in several locations whenever you like. So far I've been able to craft 90% of all the gear I have equipped instead of having to quest for it. Haven't had to buy ANY crafting mats from a vendor because I have the drive to go out and get it for myself. When my 15 day trial ends I'm going to sub because I've had more fun in this game in 1 week than I have with months of gameplay from most of these others.

Sandbox = the ability of a player to do what they wish within the boundaries of the gameworld. It's no different from the real world, you can do whatever you want withing the limits of the law.

Perfectly stated. You play FE like I do, and because of your play style you make it into a sandbox (as you define it - and I define it). Some others push to progress, from one town to the next, from one sector to the next, all in an attempt to get to max level as fast as they can. For them, they play it linear, and for that it is a theme park.

The only correct answer to OP in this thread is that FE has the ability to be either, depending on your own play style.

Originally posted by Broomy

One of the main components of a sandbox game is the tools or "freedoms" it provides to players.  In FE you can be any type of crafter you want, any type of hybrid player as well (which most of us will end up being no doubt), align yourself with any faction you want, and do any mission you want (so far at level 10 I have not found any mission line that I was forced to do).  The game has sectors based on the amount of skills one has developed however nothings stopping you from going where ever you want (you just may end up dead though).  All in all I find the game to provide me as a player alot of freedoms that I have seldom experienced in all my time gaming.

With the exception of the leveling system, you might as well have described Warcraft.  

The type of skill(or leveling) system present isn't the most important factor.  It's the manner in which that system dictates you advance.  In FE you are forced to kill mobs within a specific level range, which are located within specific zone ranges.  A to B to C.

And no, this thread isn't about a bunch of people saying "zomg Fallen Earth is a trash game! It sucks ass, I hate it!!! It's not a sandbox at all!".  It's just people explaining very clearly why its not a sandbox.  That's it, plain and simple.

 

Perfectly stated. You play FE like I do, and because of your play style you make it into a sandbox (as you define it - and I define it). Some others push to progress, from one town to the next, from one sector to the next, all in an attempt to get to max level as fast as they can. For them, they play it linear, and for that it is a theme park.

The only correct answer to OP in this thread is that FE has the ability to be either, depending on your own play style.

So you're just going to chill forever in zone 1, at level 20 something forever?  Your never going to be forced into going into zone 2 to continue leveling?

Playing a themepark game in a casual nature does not make it a sandbox.  It just makes you a casual player.

Hell I could wonder around the level 10-19 areas of Aion and craft crap gear for the next 10 years w/out ever getting past level 25.  That doesn't mean Aion is a sandbox.

Originally posted by emperorwings

Can we build almost anything we can see? Can we make out own cities? Can we claim land and alter it? If not then it's not a sandbox. Although it could still have sandbox like elements in it.

That's pretty much all we are saying. I don't think anyone here on this thread has claimed it to be a full blown sandbox game. You just have a handful of people here, for what ever reason, getting upset and not wanting to accept that the game has sandbox elements. Most of us have already conceded that there are thempark elements as well. It's as if the people who say ignorant stuff about game think THEIR game is the THE definition of a sandbox.  They don't realize that opinion does not equal fact. I personally don't care if people say FE is a sandbox with themepark elements or a themepark with sandbox elements. I know how the game plays. The only thing that has been making me post on this thread is to throw the bullshit flag when I see someone trying to pretend to be some sort of MMO classification expert. I feel partially bad being one of the ones to feed the trolls, but at the same time I have a feeling some potential players will see this thread, and if they can get past a lot of the bullshit, will be able to decide for themselves if it's worth playing.

I'm sure this thread will go on for sometime, and I'm sure I will keep reading it while shaking my head in disbelief. Hopefully I will be able to refrain from throwing anymore bullshit flags.

People just need to stop responding to threads like this because noone ever convinces anyone to change their minds... and most of the arguments revolve around semantics and accepted definitions of certain terms, that noone can fundamentally agree on anyways. It's pointless really... I'm starting really to despise reading the "Sandbox" and "Themepark" buzzwords, seriously.

Originally posted by Kaocan

And please, no need to respond to this to try and force me to believe your side further, because I really don’t care.

 

I'm sorry, did I forget to put this sentence in my last post? Maybe I did, I don't remember.

No, I was going to put stuff in this post again, but it's really not worth the effort obviously. Lets all just conceed to whatever this dudes name is and admit FE MUST be a theme park because he said so. Much easier than trying to convince him we really don't care.

Close the thread, we have a winner, FE is a theme park, and linear, no sandbox elements in it at all - it isn't EVE.

(edited to give up beating my head against the proverbial brick wall)

Originally posted by Darkholme

People just need to stop responding to threads like this because noone ever convinces anyone to change their minds... and most of the arguments revolve around semantics and accepted definitions of certain terms, that noone can fundamentally agree on anyways. It's pointless really... I'm starting really to despise reading the "Sandbox" and "Themepark" buzzwords, seriously.

This person is 100% correct.

This thread was to answer the question of whether or not Fallen Earth is one type of game or another. After some debate it became obvious that some people were not here to discuss the topic but to entice arguments (not discussions - if you are not willing to debate the topic - having a single stand point and attempting to force that on everyone else without compromise in a heated manner and without reason is an argument).

As I have no desire to play into their goats and argue with them, I have backed away from their attempts to do so and highly recommend everyone else do the same. The intention of some people can lead to nothing short or warnings and possibly bans for RoC violations. Please, do not let them use you to feed their need for attention.

Lets make the thread 20 pages long, then I can come back and say that I will go and SANDBOX it up in FE again and we can continue yapping about it for 10 more pages.

I'll just pop in every 10 pages to tell the clueless among us that:

Fallen earth feels much more sandboxy then EVE (I played EVE for 3 years off and on)... to ME... as in... I have much more freedom as to which play style I'm going to play for the day and how to progress my character.

EVE is so much more restrictive is not even funny, even though CCP devs like to claim their game is a sandbox, which is funny to me.

Now continue with your theories about why EVE is and FE isnt a sandbox while I go have fun playing one the most interesting and immersive game I've ever played (playing video games since early 80`s) I promise to come back and read them.

Originally posted by Benjola

Lets make the thread 20 pages long, then I can come back and say that I will go and SANDBOX it up in FE again and we can continue yapping about it for 10 more pages.

I'll just pop in every 10 pages to tell the clueless among us that:

Fallen earth feels much more sandboxy then EVE (I played EVE for 3 years off and on)... to ME... as in... I have much more freedom as to which play style I'm going to play for the day and how to progress my character.

EVE is so much more restrictive is not even funny, even though CCP devs like to claim their game is a sandbox, which is funny to me.

Now continue with your theories about why EVE is and FE isnt a sandbox while I go have fun playing one the most interesting and immersive game I've ever played (playing video games since early 80`s) I promise to come back and read them.

I agree with you... partially.

EVE Online sertainly is a sandbox MMO. You can do whatever you want. It just takes a shitload of time.

I agree today. When having to compete with people with well over 35million SP who played since launch. That you will have to specialize and restrict yourself in the beginning to be able to compete in PVP in not too long of a time. But after that, you can do whatever you like.

In FE it's pretty much the same. It just takes a little less time......... for now. As ultimately FE is suppose to get to having 150 levels. Wich is a lot.

And when it comes to that. Any new player joining then, will be in the same boat, as new players in EVE Online today.

They will have to restrict themselves in the beginning and specialize, so they can compete in not too long a time and then they can continue and do whatever they like.

Cheers

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Benjola

Lets make the thread 20 pages long, then I can come back and say that I will go and SANDBOX it up in FE again and we can continue yapping about it for 10 more pages.

I'll just pop in every 10 pages to tell the clueless among us that:

Fallen earth feels much more sandboxy then EVE (I played EVE for 3 years off and on)... to ME... as in... I have much more freedom as to which play style I'm going to play for the day and how to progress my character.

EVE is so much more restrictive is not even funny, even though CCP devs like to claim their game is a sandbox, which is funny to me.

Now continue with your theories about why EVE is and FE isnt a sandbox while I go have fun playing one the most interesting and immersive game I've ever played (playing video games since early 80`s) I promise to come back and read them.

 

I agree with you... partially.

EVE Online sertainly is a sandbox MMO. You can do whatever you want. It just takes a shitload of time.

I agree today. When having to compete with people with well over 35million SP who played since launch. That you will have to specialize and restrict yourself in the beginning to be able to compete in PVP in not too long of a time. But after that, you can do whatever you like.

In FE it's pretty much the same. It just takes a little less time......... for now. As ultimately FE is suppose to get to having 150 levels. Wich is a lot.

And when it comes to that. Any new player joining then, will be in the same boat, as new players in EVE Online today.

They will have to restrict themselves in the beginning and specialize, so they can compete in not too long a time and then they can continue and do whatever they like.

Cheers

I actually started playing EVE several months before I switched over to FE and stopped EVE because of that issue right there. I had done my research and loved the idea that EVE would give me the freedom to do whatever I wished, only to find out that as a 'noob' to the game I wouldn't have any freedom for months at least unless I first clawed my way out a specialized approach to dealing with the old timers. It basically had little to no freedom for a new player in its already built game world. Sad too because I love the potential and mechanics of the game too.

And your right, FE will probably fall into the same boat IF they don't take care to avoid it in the present. It may be why FE has those Theme Park features included in it that makes it a hybrid. It being more of a mix than a sandbox may be the one saving virtue of the game 4 years down the road for new players.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Benjola

Lets make the thread 20 pages long, then I can come back and say that I will go and SANDBOX it up in FE again and we can continue yapping about it for 10 more pages.

I'll just pop in every 10 pages to tell the clueless among us that:

Fallen earth feels much more sandboxy then EVE (I played EVE for 3 years off and on)... to ME... as in... I have much more freedom as to which play style I'm going to play for the day and how to progress my character.

EVE is so much more restrictive is not even funny, even though CCP devs like to claim their game is a sandbox, which is funny to me.

Now continue with your theories about why EVE is and FE isnt a sandbox while I go have fun playing one the most interesting and immersive game I've ever played (playing video games since early 80`s) I promise to come back and read them.

 

I agree with you... partially.

EVE Online sertainly is a sandbox MMO. You can do whatever you want. It just takes a shitload of time.

I agree today. When having to compete with people with well over 35million SP who played since launch. That you will have to specialize and restrict yourself in the beginning to be able to compete in PVP in not too long of a time. But after that, you can do whatever you like.

In FE it's pretty much the same. It just takes a little less time......... for now. As ultimately FE is suppose to get to having 150 levels. Wich is a lot.

And when it comes to that. Any new player joining then, will be in the same boat, as new players in EVE Online today.

They will have to restrict themselves in the beginning and specialize, so they can compete in not too long a time and then they can continue and do whatever they like.

Cheers

 

I actually started playing EVE several months before I switched over to FE and stopped EVE because of that issue right there. I had done my research and loved the idea that EVE would give me the freedom to do whatever I wished, only to find out that as a 'noob' to the game I wouldn't have any freedom for months at least unless I first clawed my way out a specialized approach to dealing with the old timers. It basically had little to no freedom for a new player in its already built game world. Sad too because I love the potential and mechanics of the game too.

And your right, FE will probably fall into the same boat IF they don't take care to avoid it in the present. It may be why FE has those Theme Park features included in it that makes it a hybrid. It being more of a mix than a sandbox may be the one saving virtue of the game 4 years down the road for new players.

It's just how it is with all RPG type games.

Be it Sandbox or Level-class themepark based.

When you now start WoW or EQ2. You will have to struggle through 80 levels to hook up to the existing playerbase. And soon with their upcoming expansions it will be 90 levels.

With EVE Online and FE it's the same. As MMO games grow and evolve over the years and for new players it will be harder and longer to catch up with the settled community.

So. Sandbox or not. It's a problem with all MMO's.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Benjola

Lets make the thread 20 pages long, then I can come back and say that I will go and SANDBOX it up in FE again and we can continue yapping about it for 10 more pages.

I'll just pop in every 10 pages to tell the clueless among us that:

Fallen earth feels much more sandboxy then EVE (I played EVE for 3 years off and on)... to ME... as in... I have much more freedom as to which play style I'm going to play for the day and how to progress my character.

EVE is so much more restrictive is not even funny, even though CCP devs like to claim their game is a sandbox, which is funny to me.

Now continue with your theories about why EVE is and FE isnt a sandbox while I go have fun playing one the most interesting and immersive game I've ever played (playing video games since early 80`s) I promise to come back and read them.

 

I agree with you... partially.

EVE Online sertainly is a sandbox MMO. You can do whatever you want. It just takes a shitload of time.

I agree today. When having to compete with people with well over 35million SP who played since launch. That you will have to specialize and restrict yourself in the beginning to be able to compete in PVP in not too long of a time. But after that, you can do whatever you like.

In FE it's pretty much the same. It just takes a little less time......... for now. As ultimately FE is suppose to get to having 150 levels. Wich is a lot.

And when it comes to that. Any new player joining then, will be in the same boat, as new players in EVE Online today.

They will have to restrict themselves in the beginning and specialize, so they can compete in not too long a time and then they can continue and do whatever they like.

Cheers

 

I actually started playing EVE several months before I switched over to FE and stopped EVE because of that issue right there. I had done my research and loved the idea that EVE would give me the freedom to do whatever I wished, only to find out that as a 'noob' to the game I wouldn't have any freedom for months at least unless I first clawed my way out a specialized approach to dealing with the old timers. It basically had little to no freedom for a new player in its already built game world. Sad too because I love the potential and mechanics of the game too.

And your right, FE will probably fall into the same boat IF they don't take care to avoid it in the present. It may be why FE has those Theme Park features included in it that makes it a hybrid. It being more of a mix than a sandbox may be the one saving virtue of the game 4 years down the road for new players.

 

It's just how it is with all RPG type games.

Be it Sandbox or Level-class themepark based.

When you now start WoW or EQ2. You will have to struggle through 80 levels to hook up to the existing playerbase. And soon with their upcoming expansions it will be 90 levels.

With EVE Online and FE it's the same. As MMO games grow and evolve over the years and for new players it will be harder and longer to catch up with the settled community.

So. Sandbox or not. It's a problem with all MMO's.

This is only an issue for players who prefer or like competitive gameplay.

For those that love the adventure and the RP part, it does not really matter at all. I'm in there for the journey, and I have no issues accepting that there were, and will always be players who are a lot more powerful than myself, and would beat the c**p out of me in PVP. I don't have the time, the dedication, but most importantly any mood to compete with them, so I do anything else I want - freeroam, scavenge, enjoy and follow the storyline, and sometimes socialize. Any game that gives me that : I would love it.

FE has the extra charms for me because of the setting, and because I love crafting in every game.

DB

Recap of last 12 pages

no its not

yes it is

no its not

yes it is

rinse repeat...

Originally posted by grunt187

Recap of last 12 pages

no its not

yes it is

no its not

yes it is

rinse repeat...

True. Even if it' now about 12 against 1 :D
 

DB

Well, there is a legal way to jump right in the end game in EVE for those that like to compete in PVP (even though the PVP is silly in EVE but that's another story) and that' s why the game is laughable to me even though i played it for 3 years and tbh I only played it as a second MMO and because the second you have a char that can do level 4 missions the game becomes free to play, you can make 300+mill  ISK in few days missioning and you set for a month, so no sub costs.

Now about the jumping to end game.

It takes two things to progress in EVE.

Time and ISK (game currency)

You can LEGALY buy both with real $$

Lets say i have money to burn.

First i go buy a lot of ISK (legaly through Game time cards sells) after which I buy a 50mill SP combat char (also legal).

Voila, I'm uber...

That's a good game for some? fine...knock yourself out.

I've been waiting for so long for a game where the ingame currency doesn't mater much or at all.

I finaly have that in FE.

Only players that need a lot of chips in FE are the people who dont like to craft at all and like to rush to level cap, so they'll be looking for RMT so they can buy their gear, weapons and ammo from AH.

For me... I dont ever use the AH and I'm very much against it but that's also another story.

It's funny to me to see people complaining about the "economy" in FE.

It's set up differently then any other MMO that's why it may seem "broken" to people that are not interested in playing the game but they just like to see their virtual bankroll grow through trading even though they wont be using the chips  for anything.

Hey, it's a play style, I understand that, but FE is not a game for that kind of game play.

The economy in EVE works well yes (it's not player driven economy though, some people are in denial about this) but it works well because the game is so much ISK dependant.

ISK is everything in EVE, you can't progress or even play the game without ISK so yeah, the economy will be interesting in that kind of game.

All right, i got caried away with this post so I'll end it here.

See ya all in game.

Here is my view. I feel the game is a sandbox based on what I consider a sandbox game. If you dont think its a sandbox, ok. All that matters honestly is if you enjoy the game for what it is or not. Doesnt matter if it fits into some unimportant label