Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

 

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.

 

Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things. 

 

There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox.  Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.

 

Ehh... settle down?

 

Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it

How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.

But I'll bite anyways,...the game as  a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.

 

Yeah, I played till level 19.

 

I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different. 

 

Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market. 

 

That's a crazy twist and interpretation of what I have been saying. No where did I write that sandbox is better then non-sandbox. How you got that is beyond me. Also your last sentence seems to come from left field as well. Did you already have these responses on MS Word, ready to copy and paste?

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".

Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:

Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.

Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.

For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".

 

Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:

 

Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.

 

Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.

 

For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.

You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.

No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.

It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.

Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.

The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.

Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".

 

Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:

 

Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.

 

Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.

 

For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.

You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.

No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.

It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.

Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.

The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.

Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.

I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.

Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid".  And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.

And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".

 

Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:

 

Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.

 

Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.

 

For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.

You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.

No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.

It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.

Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.

The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.

Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.

 

I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.

 

Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid".  And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.

 

And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.

I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.

Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".

 

Well, I disagree with your last sentence. I think it's working like this:

 

Sandbox people: I think it's a sandbox because a dev on the FE team said it was. I also just feel like it is.

 

Non-sandbox people: Here are the reasons why this game is not anywhere near a sandbox. Please tell me why it is a sandbox.

 

For instance, you have not named one in game element that makes this game a sandbox. And you won't because, "It's not your job." Well, I think it's because you can't.

You...lol, ok, if you're going to lie, I'm going to call you on it. Lee Hammock never stated the game was a sandbox. Again, you're blinded by wanting to be right. Listen to the interview. He says it's a hybrid in very clear American English.

No, you're damned and determined not to process the words I wrote and fixate only on little bits that help your carry on your argument.

It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid. It's a Hybrid.

Don't know how else to type that out for you to understand what I'm saying.

The game focuses on player crafted items being the best gear a player can get. That's a sandbox element. I'm not going to type out a list of others, not because I can't, but because even if I did you'd find some "out there" argument to argue why it wasn't a sandbox element and do so with each one on the list.

Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.

 

I disagree. If a game does not have any sandbox elements in it, it can not be called a hybrid. That is silly. Read it again. If a game does not have a sandbox element in it, it can not be called a hybrid.

 

Having the best gear in the game come from crafting does not make it a "hybrid". That has nothing to do with a "hybrid".  And to top it off, the best gear in the game can be crafted using vendor bought mats where the price is determined completely by the Devs. That is the opposite of sandbox and makes the crafting area less hybrid sandbox than WoW.

 

And why should I not argue with you if your points lay flat and are often false. This is not a hybrid in any way.

I guessed as much. And you still didn't even acknowledge your lie about what Hammock said. Nope, you just drive on and try to find other little nit picks to trump up. That tells me all I need to know, and arguing for the sake of arguing isn't my bag.

Good luck with the rest of your forum "crusade". I'm gonna go...oh, play the game.

Um, if I "lied," it wasn't on purpose. He said that it was a sandbox/theme park hybrid.

There is no crusade going on. I'm not a troll. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. You have not presented anything at all that justifies calling this game a hybrid. I have layed out things that justify that it's not. 

The reason why arguing isn't "your bag" in this case is because you don't have a leg to stand on. My perception of you is that you are the one on the crusade. Because I see that you have no logical reason to believe the way you do. And you refuse to submit logical reasons as to why you think the way you do. And even when you do submit a reason, it doesn't support your argument. Instead of coming up with good reasons why this game should be considered a hybrid, you tell people they argue for the sake of arguing and say that they are crusading for something (what, I have no clue). 

It's time to accept the truth and move on. It doesn't hurt. There is nothing wrong with it being a theme park MMO.

Instead of arguing about it, why not try to list the elements of FE and catagorize them as TP or SB? That way, we as a community can decide for ourselves.

As someone that isn't really familiar with sandbox type games (played EVE but very briefly a long time ago) I would find it very interesting and insightful if we could all agree to do this.

It doesn't have to be one way or another but it would help newbies like myself to better understand what FE might actually be according to those that play it.

I have no idea how to start it off but figured that it couldn't hurt to make the suggestion as this thread really couldn't get much more useless at this point. Hopefully someone will take the ball and run with it so that we might be able to actually have a constructive conversation on the issue.

Originally posted by FlaFringe

Instead of arguing about it, why not try to list the elements of FE and catagorize them as TP or SB? That way, we as a community can decide for ourselves.

As someone that isn't really familiar with sandbox type games (played EVE but very briefly a long time ago) I would find it very interesting and insightful if we could all agree to do this.

It doesn't have to be one way or another but it would help newbies like myself to better understand what FE might actually be according to those that play it.

I have no idea how to start it off but figured that it couldn't hurt to make the suggestion as this thread really couldn't get much more useless at this point. Hopefully someone will take the ball and run with it so that we might be able to actually have a constructive conversation on the issue.

Here are some reasons why it is not:

1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy

Here are some possible reasons why it is:

1. Seemless, open world

I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.

There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit.

MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations.

EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements.

EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP.

EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life.

Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan.

These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources.

And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Unless I'm wrong about you, which I would be surprised, and you are actually here to seriously discuss and not trying to just win an argument. We'll see.

You were not.

DB

i posed this question to begin with and even though i haven't played ... i'll bite. doesn't the promise of a player driven, crafting-based economy differentiate FE from nearly all other mmos? There is a myriad of options available that are limited by imagination on this one feature.

the absence of classes also grants a players imagination free reign over what his character will be proficient at.

 

FE doesn't have a player driven economy.   It's actually one of the worse game economies I've ever seen.  

Originally posted by colddog

 

Here are some reasons why it is not:

 

1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

Here are some possible reasons why it is:

 

1. Seemless, open world

 

 

I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.

 

None of those things has anything to do with being or not being a sandbox. If you people keep asking the wrong question you'll continue to get wrong answers.

Originally posted by Benjola

There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit.

MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations.

EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements.

EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP.

EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life.

Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan.

These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources.

And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.

Eve's market is as close to a player driven economy you'll ever see.  The only changes they make are to keep the market at a healthy level, they don't impose strict limitations on anything... instead they'll alter drop rates or production costs.  They do this for the same reason the government pays farmers -not- to grow crops.

 Anyway I don't really see why this is being discussed.  Eve is skill based game with a player driven economy thats full of options that lets you pick one of a dozen careers.  Fallen Earth is a level based theme-park, with a stagnant NPC based economy, that leads you from zone to zone by your nose-rings.  The only choices you make are deciding where to assign skill points when you level up. They don't really compare.

I can't point out a single aspect of FE that I would consider a "sandbox" element... outside of perhaps the zones being incredibly large.

Originally posted by Benjola

There is only one sandbox game and that's Second life, if you can call that a game and its as boring as shit.

MMOs have sandbox elements but still they are made with heavy limitations.

EVE is far from sandbox game, it has sandbox elements.

EvE does not have player driven economy, everything is regulated and controled by CCP.

EvE and FE both have simillar sandboxy type of crafting, as in you can craft almost all items in game but you cant make something original like you can in Second life.

Only thing EVE has on FE sandbox-wise is the souverenity thing which I guess you can call it player driven content, I`ll admit that but FE also has simillar things in plan.

These 3 sectors we now have are just the beggining of so many good things to come because the devs of FE understand their player base from being gamers themselves and they know exactly where to focus their resources.

And that's that, and if another moron tries to " teach" me whats sandbox and what's not and give me some selfmade definitions I'm gonna start getting rude.

 I also just wanted to point out, that by -your- definition.  The real world isn't even a sandbox, because limits are imposed by governmental bodies.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by colddog

Here are some reasons why it is not sandbox:

1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

 

None of those things has anything to do with being or not being a sandbox. If you people keep asking the wrong question you'll continue to get wrong answers.

Well the list is quite accurate, Fallen Earth is actually the opposite of Sandbox.

That said FE is probably one of the best Theme Park mmo on the market, fun with a lot of content until lvl 45 cap.

In fact not only Fallen Earth is a pure traditionnal Theme Park Mmorpg, it happen to be also the easiest casual one i've ever played.

You can solo your way thru to cap level 45 with hundreds of linear questlines in 3 weeks .

Now once these things happen :

- Full item decay, player driven economy

- Non instanced housing / city building

- Player driven content having an impact on the world

- Full skill system / skill trees

Then FE might deserve the Sandbox quot

Until now it's just a good old easy casual Theme park :)

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by colddog

 

Here are some reasons why it is not:

 

1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

Here are some possible reasons why it is:

 

1. Seemless, open world

 

 

I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.

 

 

None of those things has anything to do with being or not being a sandbox. If you people keep asking the wrong question you'll continue to get wrong answers.

Actually, yeah they do.  

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by colddog

 

Here are some reasons why it is not:

 

1. Linear progression
2. Limited skill system
3. Level based
4. Lack of player-driven content
5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

Here are some possible reasons why it is:

 

1. Seemless, open world

 

 

I'm not sure what I can add. Hopefully others have more things that might be considered sandboxy.

 

 

None of those things has anything to do with being or not being a sandbox. If you people keep asking the wrong question you'll continue to get wrong answers.

 

Actually, yeah they do.  

Actually, no they don't.  You're making things up to bolster you nonsense.  Show me one bona fide industry source that gives that as the definition for sandbox.

Actually, yeah they do.  

Actually, no they don't.  You're making things up to bolster you nonsense.  Show me one bona fide industry source that gives that as the definition for sandbox.

Oh for piss sake.  Are you actually trying to play the "definition" card?  Get real.  We all know what a sandbox game is in relation to a theme-park.

My 2chips.

Whether you want to call it a sandbox or themepark, you have to look at what the devs are aiming for in the long run. That seems to be something similar to SWG and vanguard. Which one is most definitely a hybrid (old SWG anyway).

I look at it as a hybrid because there is more than one choice in how you progress. As well as the plans for player built housing. Being able to gain everything you need from the environment and build something you could not otherwise obtain, unless you purchase it from another player who did the work.

These are in line with what the genre has termed sandbox elements since uo. Sure it doesn't have every aspect to call it a full blown sanbox, but that's why no one really is.

Only got one thing to say on this - FE is NOT a theme park . If you play it that way then you make it that way yourself. By definition a theme park gives you a predefined path you MUST follow to progress from point A to B to C to D. That's what theme park means, you get in line for ride A, when your done with it you get in line for ride B, and eventually you hit them all on your way around the park. Some of the rides have restrictions on them, and you have to 'grow' to be able to ride the big kid rides. After you've been at the park a while you figure out the path you have to take in order to hit all the rides there, hence the linear connotation.

The only way you can even think you are forced to do that in FE is if you decide to make it that way by the way you play it. Sure, I know, I can't go ride up to S3 at level 5 and expect to do anything there but get my ass handed to me but that's expected. What do you want, an entire game that's all level 1 with no progression beyond that? That's the only way you would ever have a true sandbox game where there is no progression. All mobs are exactly the same level no matter where in the world you go, so you can always kill anything. Sweet concept, but what exactly would be your motivation to even go everywhere then? I mean your already max level and do everything - oh wait, that's what happens when you rush to end-game huh?

I'm sorry to have to piss some of you off by saying that but it is true. If you play FE to get from conception to End Game as fast as you can, grind your way to the top by doing nothing but quests, and expect the game to point you to the next location, then yeah you can do that, and yeah it will feel linear and theme park to YOU. But you played it that way, the game provides for your dumb ass to take the path designed just for you. But please, stop trying to tell everyone that its a theme park because your too lazy to try and play it any other way.

Just my two-chips...

MMO's can't be fully sandboxed.

They'd be no real need for levelling. In fact console games like GTA and Crackdown are not sandboxed games. Simply because you cannot do EVERYTHING from the OFF.

Sure you can do whatever you like in those small zones, even Infamous for the PS3 it only really becomes a sandboxed game as you're nearing the final boss and can go everywhere and do everything for the rest of the "missions" and "collections" etc

Eve again, not really sandboxed game... it's a universe but within that universe there's certain parameters that must be acomplished, you wouldn't last long doing whatever you wanted all the time. (one of the flawed human reasons we'll never see a sandboxed game).

So when is a sandbox game not a sandbox game.

we've yet to reach that, a sandboxed MMO/Game would have to require a complete  overhaul in how we do games (levels, bosses, weapons, skills, etc).

Fallout 3, has a story element and sandbox like elements but again your restricted from using certain weapons, armour, going certain places without... playing the RPG part first, and even some of the story elements.

A true sandboxed game does not exist. Closest would be "second life" but only if you think of gaming as cybering with men pretending to be women from various countries.

Only way a sandboxed game would work is... create the real world.

Originally posted by comerb

Actually, yeah they do.  

Actually, no they don't.  You're making things up to bolster you nonsense.  Show me one bona fide industry source that gives that as the definition for sandbox.

 

Oh for piss sake.  Are you actually trying to play the "definition" card?  Get real.  We all know what a sandbox game is in relation to a theme-park.

Right we all know and yet no one agrees. Oh for piss sake. Are you actually going to play the "deflection" card? I'm as real as it gets and you can't back up your assertions with anything more than "because I said so."

Before you get too wound up do you even know the game the term was coined to describe? Here's a hint, it wasn't an MMO.

People, you need to stop asking if something is or isn't a sandbox. Instead ask "How do you play?" "Is it fun?" "What can you do?" Those are valid questions. Throwing label at games based or arbitrary criteria tells you nothing worthwhile.

LOL I can't believe you guys are still argueing about this.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by comerb

Actually, yeah they do.  

Actually, no they don't.  You're making things up to bolster you nonsense.  Show me one bona fide industry source that gives that as the definition for sandbox.

 

Oh for piss sake.  Are you actually trying to play the "definition" card?  Get real.  We all know what a sandbox game is in relation to a theme-park.

 

Right we all know and yet no one agrees. Oh for piss sake. Are you actually going to play the "deflection" card? I'm as real as it gets and you can't back up your assertions with anything more than "because I said so."

Before you get too wound up do you even know the game the term was coined to describe? Here's a hint, it wasn't an MMO.

People, you need to stop asking if something is or isn't a sandbox. Instead ask "How do you play?" "Is it fun?" "What can you do?" Those are valid questions. Throwing label at games based or arbitrary criteria tells you nothing worthwhile.

Probably Elite... the same game Eve was designed off of.  It doesn't really matter though, because MMOs are different than single player games, and thus even if they have similar labels, those labels have unique qualities within each genre.

Label's serve a purpose.  If someone told me FE was a "sandbox" and then I bought it thinking it was designed with certain qualities that are associated with "sandbox" games... I would be severely disappointed.    When someone says "It's a sandbox."  I get a very clear picture in my head of what the gameplay entails, and so do most other educated gamers... the same goes for if someone says "It's a themepark."

The term "sandbox" and "themepark" obviously don't have a websters dictionary definitions.  They are tools created by the players used to describe a type of gameplay.  There are certain elements that are attached to those types of gameplay that adhere to "sandbox" or "themepark" play styles, and they are widely agreed upon by the community.  Eve is a "sandbox"... WoW is a "Theme-park"... this isn't debatable.  You can play the semantics game all you want, and define your own personal definitions until your blue in the face.  It doesn't change what the majority of gamers who use the aforementioned labels consider a "sandbox" or a "themepark", which relates directly to the linear nature of a game.

Originally posted by comerb

 

Probably Elite... the same game Eve was designed off of.

Label's serve a purpose.  If someone told me FE was a "sandbox" and then I bought it thinking it was designed with certain qualities that are associated with "sandbox" games... I would be severely disappointed.    When someone says "It's a sandbox."  I get a very clear picture in my head of what the gameplay entails, and so do most other educated gamers... the same goes for if someone says "It's a themepark."

The term "sandbox" and "themepark" obviously don't have a websters dictionary definitions.  They are tools created by the players used to describe a type of gameplay.  There are certain elements that are attached to those types of gameplay that adhere to "sandbox" or "themepark" play styles, and they are widely agreed upon by the community.  Eve is a "sandbox"... WoW is a "Theme-park"... this isn't debatable.  You can play the semantics game all you want, and define your own personal definitions until your blue in the face.  It doesn't change what the majority of gamers who use the aforementioned labels consider a "sandbox" or a "themepark", which relates directly to the linear nature of a game.

 

The problem is as you state so nicely above - its all subjective to the individuals interpretation of the definitions. You may believe a game is a Theme Park based off your play style in that game, and since I play it differently I may say it isn't. You also assume a game is linear based off of how you play that aforementioned game, many others may not play it that way and also do not think it is linear. And your assuming a great deal when you use the comment 'widely agreed upon by the community'. You can tell that from this single forum thread alone. The 'community' here obviously can't agree if FE is or isn't either one.

Doesn't really matter how you argue the point, its all subjective to the players own personal play style and interpretation of the game based on that information.  And you state that yourself right up there ^. The only correct answer to this question would have to start "Based off of the way I play game XXXXXXX, I feel it is a  .........". Anything less than that would be inaccurate and misleading at best.