I thought this topic has been finalized already.. ROFL!

Anyways, I will stick to what Lee Hammock the Dev said.. FE has Themepark elements as well as Sandbox.

Call if what you want, at least were all enjoying the game.

However it is a hybrid (Sorry had to get it in there)..

Originally posted by HiGHPLAiNS

I thought this topic has been finalized already.. ROFL!

Anyways, I will stick to what Lee Hammock the Dev said.. FE has Themepark elements as well as Sandbox.

Call if what you want, at least were all enjoying the game.

However it is a hybrid (Sorry had to get it in there)..

Nope, you're right, straight from the horses mouth, who would know the genre better then the developers?  It has both, its a hybrid.  I think I said that in my first post.   Anyways, game rocks, I think thats all that needs to be said.

Having not read all the previous posts in this thread, I'll give my opinion.

Sand Box is can  be defined in so many different ways, so asking a yes or no question is just going to start arguments.

Fallen Earth is sandbox in the fact that you do spend points to customize your character. However, Fallen Earth does not get my "sand box" title; because Fallen Earth is still level based and very grindy.

Give me a skill system like UO or old school SWG, where the exp I gain is per skill. If I fish I'll get good at fishing, if I stab I'll get good at stabbing, if I dance I'll get good at dancing. None of this grind through a level killing crap so I can spend points.

Originally posted by Selek

Having not read all the previous posts in this thread, I'll give my opinion.

Sand Box is can  be defined in so many different ways, so asking a yes or no question is just going to start arguments.

Fallen Earth is sandbox in the fact that you do spend points to customize your character. However, Fallen Earth does not get my "sand box" title; because Fallen Earth is still level based and very grindy.

Give me a skill system like UO or old school SWG, where the exp I gain is per skill. If I fish I'll get good at fishing, if I stab I'll get good at stabbing, if I dance I'll get good at dancing. None of this grind through a level killing crap so I can spend points.

You're still grinding skill though.  Its not without levels, its just, now you're leveling skills, thats skill based progression, but isn't really any more sandboxy then a set class grind.   I think the idea of sandbox traditionally mean more-so the classlessness and ability to do anything at any time, just by doing it.  

Yes, but if I want to work on my rifle at level one.. and I end up using a melee weapon to grind off enough AP to spend some on rifle. How the hell does that make any sense. Thats like working on my car to get better at cooking.

To me, true "skill based" gameplay involves actually USING the skills to level them. Thats the only thing that truely breaks you out of the  grindy leveling fest seen in classic MMORPG's.

So yes, as everyones said before, nice try fallen earth, but your a hybrid.

Originally posted by Selek

Yes, but if I want to work on my rifle at level one.. and I end up using a melee weapon to grind off enough AP to spend some on rifle. How the hell does that make any sense. Thats like working on my car to get better at cooking.

To me, true "skill based" gameplay involves actually USING the skills to level them. Thats the only thing that truely breaks you out of the  grindy leveling fest seen in classic MMORPG's.

So yes, as everyones said before, nice try fallen earth, but your a hybrid.

Oh, no, I agree with you, I mean I love the FE system, I mean.. at the later levels you don't really use skills you aren't leveling as they are too low.. but I know what you mean as far as using the skill to enhance the skill.   I was merely pointing out that even if you're grinding a skill but you have no overall set level you're still grinding for a number, its just a skill level number instead of a character level number.

Originally posted by Selek

Yes, but if I want to work on my rifle at level one.. and I end up using a melee weapon to grind off enough AP to spend some on rifle. How the hell does that make any sense. Thats like working on my car to get better at cooking.

To me, true "skill based" gameplay involves actually USING the skills to level them. Thats the only thing that truely breaks you out of the  grindy leveling fest seen in classic MMORPG's.

So yes, as everyones said before, nice try fallen earth, but your a hybrid.

Nothing wrong with it being a Hybrid. Lee Hammock even states his(their) game is a Hybrid in the recent interview that is linked in this forum. I'm going to have to differ to the guys who actually make the game as to what it is in this case, heh.

Well, I just got home from work, it got late (9pm + here) but it's a weekend and in a weekend, like a true nerd I'm gonna SANDBOX it up in FE right now..well.. in an hour or so actually but anyway..

See ya all in game.. and to those that still dont play this fine game.. why dont you?

Originally posted by Selek

Having not read all the previous posts in this thread, I'll give my opinion.

Sand Box is can  be defined in so many different ways, so asking a yes or no question is just going to start arguments.

Fallen Earth is sandbox in the fact that you do spend points to customize your character. However, Fallen Earth does not get my "sand box" title; because Fallen Earth is still level based and very grindy.

Give me a skill system like UO or old school SWG, where the exp I gain is per skill. If I fish I'll get good at fishing, if I stab I'll get good at stabbing, if I dance I'll get good at dancing. None of this grind through a level killing crap so I can spend points.

A sandbox is not a abstract term. A sandbox is just what it sounds like. A world that gives you tools to shape it. Where players can have a impact on the world around them.

This is a good example of a sandbox

www.youtube.com/watch

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

End of discussion? :)

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

Please listen to this video. you'll understand what sandbox is and you'll judge whether FE is sandbox or not...

https://secure.eve-online.com/ft/?aid=104169&bid=1

Sometimes i like to sandbox and other time I like to theme park.

Since FE has both it's cheaper for me and I can get my MMO kicks in one game.

I used to play both EvE( 3 accounts heh ) and AoC until 2 months ago.

So I get two for the price of one...and many other goodies that has been mentioned many times before so no point in repeating them.

I start to feel sorry for people that cant find one single good MMO they can have fun with, allthough it's not their fault, MMOs has been sucking donkey balls for a long time now but some people are just way too demanding and want the world for 15 bucks a month.

Some are just natural born complainers.

Sandbox Shmandbox, Themepark Shmempark

I found a MMO I can commit to and I knew it after first couple of hours of game play.

You can call it whatever you like it's not gonna change anything.

When I began, I thought FE was going to be a hybrid.  I have to agree though, it has no sandbox to it.  In reality, if feels like a Korean grinder in many aspects.  After about level 8 you begin to realize the clear progression path duplicated in each relevant sector.  The only aspect that is more sandbox than traditional mmo is the lack of pre-defined classes.  But after your first toon, you build a character from level 1 with a predefined path in mind and it becomes the same as a class defined system if not in function but in true practice.

EDIT:  Note that I am currently subscribed and will continue to play FE, because I actually find it FUN.  Sure it has negatives, but I still enjoy it...

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's typical, however, that a mmorpg.com forum poster doesn't.

 

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.

Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things. 

There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox.  Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

 

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.

 

Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things. 

 

There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox.  Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.

Ehh... settle down?

Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it.

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

 

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.

 

Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things. 

 

There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox.  Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.

 

Ehh... settle down?

 

Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it

How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.

But I'll bite anyways,...the game as  a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by rodingo

Originally posted by colddog

 

What about Fallen Earth is sandboxy?

Have you not even read any of these responses? Did you actually watch that interview? Lemme guess, you want me to summarize every post about this for you? What is it with a lot of EVE players that make them so *snobbish* when a game is talked about being sandbox. As soon as sandbox is mentioned, they are usually the very first ones to to say the only game that is a true sandbox is EVE.

 

Yeh EVE is sooooooooo sandbox. Because you can destroy all those planets or land on them, you can walk around your spaceship and spacestations. .....Oh wait you cant do any of those things. If it was a true sandbox, you could do all of those things. 

 

There, I pointed out your game's flaws and how it's not 100% sandbox. Now defend EVE and explain to me why it's 100% sandbox. Keep in mind that no matter what you say, it's not going to convince me that EVE is 100% sandbox and FE is 0% sandbox.  Also, keep in mind that I'm not claiming FE to be more or less sandbox than EVE. I would actually say are almost on the same level. You have to keep in mind that what is sandbox to you, is not necessarily sandbox to someone else. Some people think coffee should only be drunk black. Some people say it's ok to drink coffee with cream and sugar. Either way it's still coffee and so the meaning of tastes for one, doesn't have the same meaning for all.

 

Ehh... settle down?

 

Obviously it's not as sandboxy as EVE. I asked you to name something sandboxy about Fallen Earth since you seem to know so much about it

How is it obvious that EVE is more sandboxy? Oh, and if you don't know what the features of FE are, then why are you posting about the game? If you think none of the features of FE have anything to do with your definition of sandbox, then why are you asking me to list them? Either you admit you don't know what FE's features are or you are ready to argue no matter what someone says that might infringe into the domain of your niche game.

But I'll bite anyways,...the game as  a whole, with all it's features combined, is what makes the game flow and allows me to shape my character and interact with the world as I want to. That's as close to sandbox as any other game I've seen. It has it's limitations and by no means is the game perfect, but name an mmo that is.

Yeah, I played till level 19.

I think your issue lies in that... you think sandbox is somehow better than non-sandbox. It's not. It's just different. 

Your reason why this game is a sandbox fits every other MMORPG on the market. 

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by colddog

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Wootson

Fallen Earth is a hybrid, as Lee Hammock states it himself in a recent interview that he gave.

 

End of discussion? :)

 

As far as I'm concerned it is. He's one of the people who helped make it and is more qualified than us to define what it is and what it isn't.

 

I think it's silly that one of the developers of Fallen Earth doesn't understand what a sandbox element is.

I think it's presumptive for you to tell him what his game is/ isn't. Course, I'll give you all the credit in the world when you launch a sandbox or themepark game. Then you'll learn the lesson of your view not being the only view and certainly not the authoritative view on everything.

 

Just saying it's a sandbox does not make it a sandbox. You should, at the very least say what you think is so sandbox about it.

 

For instance, here are some attributes that make it not a sandbox:

1. Linear progression

2. Limited skill system

3. Level based

4. Lack of player-driven content

5. Lack of player-driven economy

 

All I want someone to do is tell me what makes this game a sandbox at all.

I never said it was a sandbox. I've said from the start it was a hybrid. It has sandbox elements as well as themepark ones. That's also what Lee Hammock has said and if anyone would know it's the people making it.

Why people can't see sandbox elements (unless you know, they haven't played it and are just talking based on reading other peoples opinions) is not for me to remedy. It has both, and anyone who has played UO and has played WoW can see that. In my view, the people who are wrong are the ones damned determined that it is one or the other. It has elements of both, the developers say it's both, move on.

This debate has regressed into nothing more that an "I'm right, your wrong (regardless of any factual information), nah nah nah nah nah".