Originally posted by donmaximo

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
 

Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
 

Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.

If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it.  <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post. 

And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?

Then I see crap like  "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)

I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.

But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game.  Problem with this logic is,,,,,

BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!! 

So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.

Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)

Originally posted by donmaximo

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
 

You’re response does a very good job of illustrating my exact point.

Also, I hope that wasn’t an attempt to quote me, as I never said that I don’t think WoW is a good game. I said that I don’t enjoy playing it anymore.

Further, your assertion that personal option of the game is worthless shows extreme naivety.

It’s people’s personal option and enjoyment of the game that have a direct result in them continuing to play. Why do you think games like EvE, CoX and even SWG have subs? Because people enjoy playing them, regardless of all of the stats, figures, links, etc that you love to post about why WoW is better.

I would argue that a person’s personal opinion holds far more weight than any “facts” you can drudge up. Especially if that person can share those opinions with someone that they have a lot in common with, as they will likely share similar points of view. In fact, I think if you asked a lot of people why they started playing a certain MMO they would probably say it was because someone they knew told them about it - not because they checked out a spreadsheet showcasing a bunch of stats about how many subs the game currently has.

Bullying a person with stats in order to catch them conflicting themselves or in some sort of semantic trap is not holding a mirror up to anything. It’s bullying, period. The fact that it’s bullying on the Internet makes it particularly sad.

Finally, this thread is not about “gaming and MMO’s in general” it’s about the reasons behind WoW hating. I offered a pretty solid argument as to what I believe to be the myth of WoW hating and how people, like you, who aggressively attack anyone who says anything negative about WoW, propagate it.

I hope others in the WoW community will soon realize that this type of behavior does nothing to help your game. Rather, anyone with any real sense, reading this thread, would take one look at the hostile negativity towards any criticism and stay far away. A game NEEDS criticism to grow, and the game WoW is TODAY would not exist without said criticism.

if you say the wrong thing about why you hate wow, hating wow.. or anything related to it on this forum, you are subject to being banned by a fanboi moderator .. its true!

Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
 

Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.

If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it.  <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post. 

And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?

Then I see crap like  "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)

I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.

But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game.  Problem with this logic is,,,,,

BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!! 

So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.

Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

It's pretty simple why there is "WOW" hate.  It's the same reason every game on this forum has hate threads.  They get a responce from all the fans trying to disprove the hate.  Funny thing is all they end up doing is keeping the hate thread afloat for a few days thus drawing attention to it and validating it's existance.

If you don't want to see hate thread after hate thread pop up the best thing you can do is ignore it.  Thats right ignore it.  Sure pop in and read it for a good chuckle about what some poor person thinks is wrong with the world.  Then leave without responding and go back to playing a game you enjoy.  Pretty soon the hate poster/s will get bored with agreeing with themselves and leave on their own.

I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Let's put it the simple way. People are NOT rating Blizzard as they do with the other publishers on the market. Period

Period.

Wow introduced in just the last months  the following:

- leveling through PvP (guys AV from 60 to 79 is a must these days. You have to be in there to believe it).

- joining the BG's from anywhere (to avoid the "grind feeling" of pve leveling if you're not on a pvp server).

- dual specs (healers/tanks/dps you name it : it runs the game).

- everyone and his dog do raids and hi end heroics these days. EVERYONE,... so much the sentence "no more instances can be launched" is a standard these days....

- And the next revolution is clustered dungeon servers. A lfg tool the size of 20 servers ...enter ... CATA.

---OK that was just 4 months of latest "trivial" additions and news....

--------> Now think of the following: ..... suppose it was Blizzard who put out Aion or Fallen Earth....

I think the world would go mad.

To come back to the OP's question: it's the same why people hate Microsoft, why people hate the president, why people hate everything that stands for domination and power.

But seeing through it ... everyone knows it's a damned good game paid by millions just to play it.

Blizzard is God, It's a well known fact.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.

Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^

Originally posted by bboneheadd

Originally posted by SaintViktor

I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.

 

Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^

Diablo and Diablo 2 was a creation of Blizzard North. Blizzard in Irvine only published it. Warcraft = Warhammer. Starcraft = Warhammer 40k.

Originally posted by donmaximo

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

 

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

 

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

And these are the people we are targeting.

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by donmaximo

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

 

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

 

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

 

And these are the people we are targeting.

This may be true for you, but not for folks like Zorndorf.

I have no issue with defending the game you love…from actual attacks. But, what is really happening most of the time (as I’ve shown with my post and the subsequent response to it) is someone comes on these forums and offers their opinion about the enjoyment (or lack of) that they experienced playing the game; they are then immediately set upon by stat-mongers who seek to debase this opinion at all cost, using such high moral ground as “holding a mirror up” to these posters to show them the error in their opinion.

Often times the defense comes in the form of trying to catch this person in some insignificant conflict or semantic trap. As I stated in the section of my post that you highlighted: these facts and stats do not amount to making opinion or enjoyment of the game obsolete as valid criticism. Also, what these rabid defenders fail to see is that opinion and enjoyment, beyond any stats, facts, links, spreadsheets, etc is what really keeps players coming back.

So if someone states that they don’t enjoy playing anymore, that’s a valid reason in and of itself. Further, it’s this exact criticism and opinion of enjoyment that I’m sure game developers consult when looking to improve the game because, as I’ve said already, that’s the bottom line as to what makes someone continue to play, or not.

People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

Originally posted by donmaximo 

People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

 

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

 

Criticism, yes? Stupid idiotic comparisons that frequent these forums, no. That is the difference. I RARELY see any real criticism of WOW on these forums. All I see are the same arguments of "WOW is McD's, WOW is Brittney Spears, WOW is for 12 year old kids, WOW is dumbed down to the point where it plays itself", etc......

It has been a long time since I have seen any legitimate and logical criticism of the game. And I agree with you that criticism is needed. However, most of the time the argument goes back and forth over things that are not needed for debate. For example, WOW is a casual MMO now. Yes the vanilla days of WOW were great, 40 man raids were fun to remember, and the game is designed more for solo'ers until the end game. There is no need to debate that because that IS WOW. And moreso, it is through those changes that WOW grew to 10+ million players.

But the haters and the trolls continue to harp on those points and berate those points so 99% of the time the debate about WOW is over meaningless stuff like that and not over the points we should be debating.

And honestly, if you do not believe in the prevalence of WOW hate, you honestly do not frequent these boards a lot. Don't believe me - start a positive thread about WOW that is honest and true and see how long it takes to turn into a haters thread.

Originally posted by donmaximo

SoPeople like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

 

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

 

I already answered to you above in this thread. So why a second personal attack while ignoring my first answer?

I am hardly attacking anything , I am defending everything. That's 10 times more challeging.

Everything I find in playing the game I love to play.

And I always give references, analyse, dissect "the" game and comments to its very core.

Is that bothering people? Only the ones who want to have a free spitting area.

If that bothers you, np. Next time discuss on elements of answers and play the ball  instead of tackling the man.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by donmaximo

SoPeople like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

 

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

 

 

I already answered to you above in this thread. So why a second personal attack while ignoring my first answer?

I am hardly attacking anything , I am defending everything. That's 10 times more challeging.

Everything I find in playing the game I love to play.

And I always give references, analyse, dissect "the" game and comments to its very core.

Is that bothering people? Only the ones who want to have a free spitting area.

If that bothers you, np. Next time discuss on elements of answers and play the ball  instead of tackling the man.

 

 

I have my problems with aspects of the game now. And am just weary of it. But it is hard to dispute 12 million players worldwide.

As for Zorndorf being a fanboi well as true as that may be, there are enough wow fans to fill a large country in Europe. I suppose he is in good company.

Now there are some wow hate facts though, most wow haters love world pvp, ganking, hurting innocent players, and gear looting. Mostly they are bitter children upset that they can't go to the good old days of UO group ganking. Or they are upset that Darkfall cant cut it as an mmo and lash out at a superior game.

Now I myself indulge in some PvP at times but no game can rotate around it. I like some sandbox themes but, they can only exist reasonably by containing them in a Themepark setting.

The Sandbox crowd also hates wow, but most players across the world do not want to spend time building ships, or learning pottery. They are focussed on the End game syle of play created by EQ and carried down by WOW and others to date.

It is the popular way to play and its the format most people enjoy so even if you enjoy other elements any new game that is successful will contain the WOW EQ set up. And that is a reason for bitterness and childish behavior from the WoW haters.

Now I dont play anymore but I'm not about to go around bashing the game in some childlike attempt to make the largest online game in the world look bad.

Mainly people have a vision in there head of the perfect mmorpg, but it doesn't exist for them they are no longer allowed to kill players in town or corpse camp ( usually), their childish actions are controlled now, and any game that comes out and plays up to them will only fail time and time again. I would be surprised to ever see an mmo with full loot get over 400k subs, I doubt I ever will.