Originally posted by Lansid

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lansid

 Well, it appears there are millions of people that exist that are angry at Blizzard and WoW for ruining their games. With that many people, it should be easy to protest to actual video game forums... you know, REALLY blow them up... with the above arguments about how WoW has ruined everything, and demand that they change/revert back to the old days. I mean... I think EQ is still running... Ultima Online is still going strong as well. Lineage I and II are still hopping about. City of Heroes/Villains is still hanging in there. Anarchy online and DDO went F2P... but it still has the same content and fun it did when it was P2P. FFS even Meridian 59 is still around.

The solution is simple. It'll be an expensive fight, but it should be worth it. Everyone who hates WoW, should sub/resub to their "bestest" games... Pick THREE of the games you want to make a comeback! Really, as a lot of people say 14.99 is a drop in a bucket. So with the millions of anti-WoW gamers out there... this would be a massive feat in retaliation against WoW. Just one month... two at most is all you people would need. Then blow up their forums about the changes needed in order to keep the new massive influx of gamers. As you know, one angry MMO player represents 1 million people in forums, especially if they post multiple times in the same thread! The devs. would listen and begin remaking the game to please the vocal minority.

Everyone has made very valid points on why WoW destroyed the future of MMORPG's. I am just curious on what the solutions to fix the current dilemma is from our "top men". I gave my idea, and it'd work. If you don't think so, fine... give me one that would.

 

I hope the above is sarcasm :))), but there is even a chance this guy means it.

Listen guy: have a look at the logged in people right now on mmorpg.com. I take a look right now ...102. Mostly it's around 200. (just a fyi, you probably didn't notice the "guest" number next to it... but nonetheless...)

If you even think this site represents ANYTHING meanignful in numbers in the real world of mmorpg players, you're stupid. Plain stupid. (with respect, my post was... as you guessed, sarcastic. it was the idealistic personal take of the naysayers believing they were the vocal majority, hence the "millions of people" bit. )

>Go visit some other places like massively.com etc, where there's already a complete different mentality vs WOW. or go to wow.com etc. (meh, I'll stick to just here... it's where I joined for when FFXI was soon to come out.)

People PLAY and PAY for WOW. Millions and millions of them... against the 0.000001% represented over here who utter their kiddies frustrated hate upon a ... game they simply played much and much too long. (personally I enjoyed WoW, though currently do not play it. Overall in comparison with games I've played dating back to UO when it was first released, it's one of the "best" experiences I've had as far as getting my moneys' worth. However I'm not a zealot. The game is just that, a game. When it stops being fun and becomes more "work" to play... that's when I take a break. Try something new. Experience more than just ONE video game for the rest of my life.)

Solutions? What solutions of playing those SHITTY, broken, non games that terrorised your RL in mummy's basement 7 years ago?*MUMMY?!?! HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS RAISED BY UNDEAD?!?! WHO SENT YOUUUUU?!?!* (yes my unrealistic solution for the naysayers to re-up their subscriptions of their epic oldskool games. I fail to understand if those old games are so damned great, rather than buy the "WoW clones" what is preventing them from playing their games of perfection? Even if they didn't want to play them, I think they should still support their cause.)

:))) Go out and play some boardgames instead. (I used to take a break from MMO's... every Saturday night me and 5-6 other friends would play D&D... Then before BC, my uncle did a free trial of WoW, told his friend about it, and so on. There was no more Saturday night D&D. They all play WoW now... honestly. My uncle met AND married in RL his wife from WoW.)

I enjoy WOW and you need fresh air.

Yes it was in-depth sarcasm. I was role playing an angry butthurt MMO gamer drunk on cheap scotch. LOL, I didn't think my post would invoke such anger. 

Many people complain about WoW clones, and how WoW made baby jesus cry, violently destroyed their mama's insidey parts, and kicked puppies off of cliffs. Many of those same people yearn for the "good ol' days" and wish for games to come out that are as good as the ones they played "way back then". However this doesn't make since... they are sick of clones, but wish to have clones of the games that they played in the past... when the games they played in the past, for the majority, STILL EXIST! So just... sit down, relax and take a nitro pill. I'm not anti-WoW... but I'm not a zealot either.

I agree with this Man/Lady

People keep complaing about Clones, yet they want UO Clones and so forth.

And those original games, are still in play. So really, what is stopping you from going to those Games, and asking there Develepers to rush out More contants at a faster rate?

Just let the growing MMO population play the new style of MMORPG,s and leaving the old Hardcore players to play their old games. Both factions would be Happy

WoW is great game but its a terrible as a MMO.

Massive single player + Multiplayer is not equal to a Massive Multiplayer.

So for me WoW give the world a wrong impression for MMO genre at all and even worst most mmos try to copy that schema that ruin MMO genre in general.

MMO genre was killed when AC2 came out.  Blizzard is the only thing that saved it.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

Originally posted by Daffid011

Wow would not dominate the market if even a few other companies had done their jobs and created decent games.  That is the problem  At some point you have to place blame on those who have actually failed and not pass the buck to those who did their job well.  

 

How about this for a title:

Why have so many companies failed to compete with WoW? 

 

Try answering that question and I think your perspective might change.

 

because if i had to choose between the polished original and the attempted copy, i would choose the first option. the reason companies fail to compete with WoW is simply because they are unable to release a game that is (you can follow 2 roads)

1. As polished and complete as WoW

2. A brand new idea/concept that will attracts the masses

 

 

Why do we blame blizzard for other companies inability to release new game concepts or at least a game on the same level of quality as wow? 

When did we start blaming the faults of many companies on the success of one? 

 

Not blaming the sucess , blaming them for making MMOs so dumbed down to people that anything else is taboo now....or god forbid make a real MMO that can cater to everyone and not just short attention spans..

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by Lansid

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Lansid

 Well, it appears there are millions of people that exist that are angry at Blizzard and WoW for ruining their games. With that many people, it should be easy to protest to actual video game forums... you know, REALLY blow them up... with the above arguments about how WoW has ruined everything, and demand that they change/revert back to the old days. I mean... I think EQ is still running... Ultima Online is still going strong as well. Lineage I and II are still hopping about. City of Heroes/Villains is still hanging in there. Anarchy online and DDO went F2P... but it still has the same content and fun it did when it was P2P. FFS even Meridian 59 is still around.

The solution is simple. It'll be an expensive fight, but it should be worth it. Everyone who hates WoW, should sub/resub to their "bestest" games... Pick THREE of the games you want to make a comeback! Really, as a lot of people say 14.99 is a drop in a bucket. So with the millions of anti-WoW gamers out there... this would be a massive feat in retaliation against WoW. Just one month... two at most is all you people would need. Then blow up their forums about the changes needed in order to keep the new massive influx of gamers. As you know, one angry MMO player represents 1 million people in forums, especially if they post multiple times in the same thread! The devs. would listen and begin remaking the game to please the vocal minority.

Everyone has made very valid points on why WoW destroyed the future of MMORPG's. I am just curious on what the solutions to fix the current dilemma is from our "top men". I gave my idea, and it'd work. If you don't think so, fine... give me one that would.

 

I hope the above is sarcasm :))), but there is even a chance this guy means it.

Listen guy: have a look at the logged in people right now on mmorpg.com. I take a look right now ...102. Mostly it's around 200. (just a fyi, you probably didn't notice the "guest" number next to it... but nonetheless...)

If you even think this site represents ANYTHING meanignful in numbers in the real world of mmorpg players, you're stupid. Plain stupid. (with respect, my post was... as you guessed, sarcastic. it was the idealistic personal take of the naysayers believing they were the vocal majority, hence the "millions of people" bit. )

>Go visit some other places like massively.com etc, where there's already a complete different mentality vs WOW. or go to wow.com etc. (meh, I'll stick to just here... it's where I joined for when FFXI was soon to come out.)

People PLAY and PAY for WOW. Millions and millions of them... against the 0.000001% represented over here who utter their kiddies frustrated hate upon a ... game they simply played much and much too long. (personally I enjoyed WoW, though currently do not play it. Overall in comparison with games I've played dating back to UO when it was first released, it's one of the "best" experiences I've had as far as getting my moneys' worth. However I'm not a zealot. The game is just that, a game. When it stops being fun and becomes more "work" to play... that's when I take a break. Try something new. Experience more than just ONE video game for the rest of my life.)

Solutions? What solutions of playing those SHITTY, broken, non games that terrorised your RL in mummy's basement 7 years ago?*MUMMY?!?! HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS RAISED BY UNDEAD?!?! WHO SENT YOUUUUU?!?!* (yes my unrealistic solution for the naysayers to re-up their subscriptions of their epic oldskool games. I fail to understand if those old games are so damned great, rather than buy the "WoW clones" what is preventing them from playing their games of perfection? Even if they didn't want to play them, I think they should still support their cause.)

:))) Go out and play some boardgames instead. (I used to take a break from MMO's... every Saturday night me and 5-6 other friends would play D&D... Then before BC, my uncle did a free trial of WoW, told his friend about it, and so on. There was no more Saturday night D&D. They all play WoW now... honestly. My uncle met AND married in RL his wife from WoW.)

I enjoy WOW and you need fresh air.

Yes it was in-depth sarcasm. I was role playing an angry butthurt MMO gamer drunk on cheap scotch. LOL, I didn't think my post would invoke such anger. 

Many people complain about WoW clones, and how WoW made baby jesus cry, violently destroyed their mama's insidey parts, and kicked puppies off of cliffs. Many of those same people yearn for the "good ol' days" and wish for games to come out that are as good as the ones they played "way back then". However this doesn't make since... they are sick of clones, but wish to have clones of the games that they played in the past... when the games they played in the past, for the majority, STILL EXIST! So just... sit down, relax and take a nitro pill. I'm not anti-WoW... but I'm not a zealot either.

 

I agree with this Man/Lady

People keep complaing about Clones, yet they want UO Clones and so forth.

And those original games, are still in play. So really, what is stopping you from going to those Games, and asking there Develepers to rush out More contants at a faster rate?

Just let the growing MMO population play the new style of MMORPG,s and leaving the old Hardcore players to play their old games. Both factions would be Happy

So ur saying hardcore players are not worthy of new MMOs for them? Maybe a lot of the growing MMO population circa WOW era needs to go back to consoles since they have no idea or the brainpower to comprehend what entails in a MMO and not a MMSPG.

---

Originally posted by Robsolf

---

Originally posted by Astralglide

---

Originally posted by GreenChaos

For all the people saying WoW didn't kill the MMO genre, how many popular and successful western MMOs have there been since the release of WoW? One of two in 5 years? It's dead, WoW killed it.
How many popular and successful western will there be in the next 5 years? One of two. That's it and you know it.
It's dead people, face reality.

---

How many successful MMO's came before wow? 2-3? Lets see:
Everquest, Ultima Online, (Did vanguard come before wow?), DAOC (could that be called successful?) What others am I missing? How are you defining "successful"? I would agree that WoW has raised the bar as to what "successful" means in this market, but you can't blame companies for selling lots of their products. Has apple destroyed the portable music and video market?

---

 
GreenChaos's view of success has been massively skewed, ironically, by WoW.
Everquest, the ruling MMO before WoW, was considered a phenomenal success when it peaked at 400k subs, eclipsing UO's 250k peak, let alone all the other MMO's at that time.  SWG peaked at about 300-350k.  All were considered huge successes at the time.  When UO became the first MMO to hit 100k, there was much rejoicing.
In contrast, Lotro is guestimated to have around 300k+ subs.  WaR somewhat less than that, even the "failure" AoC having around 100k or so.  All while competing with the WoW juggernaut.  Now we have Aion, which wouldn't suprise me to find it has numbers like Everquests(or better).  Eve sits with 300k and rising...
So yeah, there have been plenty of successes since WoW, particularly when compared to the "successes" BEFORE WoW.
 
 

---

I came across this today when I going through my old files:

SAN DIEGO, March 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Online Entertainment Inc. (SOE),
a worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online gaming, today begins
celebrations in honor of the fifth year of EverQuest, North America's biggest
massively multiplayer online (MMO) game. Since its launch on March 16, 1999,
EverQuest and its expansions have sold over 2.5 million copies worldwide and
continues to be one of the gaming industry's biggest and most influential
titles. Translated into seven languages, with a global player base of more
than 420,000 people, EverQuest is one of the largest and most dynamic online
fantasy worlds ever created.

Fast facts about EverQuest

* Over 2.5 million copies of the game and its expansions have been sold
in box or digitally downloaded since 1999.

* If stacked end to end, the total number of EverQuest boxes created
would reach a height of more than 265 miles, which would stretch out
of the Earth's atmosphere and past the orbit of the International
Space Station.

* EverQuest averages about 250,000 new subscribers every year.
Currently, there are more than 420,000 people playing the game.

* At peak times, more than 100,000 people around the globe will be
playing EverQuest simultaneously. Heaviest hours of operation for
EverQuest are from 5PM Pacific Standard Time to 11PM PST, with the
biggest days being Thursday and Sunday -- traditionally, the biggest
nights for prime-time television viewing.

* There are almost 12 million characters created by players within the
game. Of these 12 million, more than 3 million have been played in
the last six months.

* The oldest EQ player is 78 (part of three generations of a single
family that play together from different states). The youngest is
9 (he plays with his mother and father).

* There are more than 1 million non-player characters populating the
world of EverQuest, made up of nearly 400 unique types of creatures.

* Total play time for all current players in the game equals more than
184,000 years.

* Only 17% of the characters played within EverQuest are human. 83% are
comprised of the fourteen other fantasy races available in the game.

* EverQuest currently has more than 420,000 inhabitants, making the
game's population larger than 42 of America's state capitals. Based
on 2000 Census figures, EQ's population is four times that of
Berkeley, CA, Springfield, IL and Gary, IN; three times that of
Pasadena, CA, Hartford, CT, Lansing, MI or Tallahassee, FL; twice the
population of Orlando, FL, Des Moines, IA, Providence, RI or Richmond,
VA; and roughly equal in population to Atlanta, GA, Kansas City, MO,
Fresno, CA and Virginia Beach, VA.

* There are over 350 square miles of dungeons, mountains, plains,
valleys, cities and forests to explore in the game.

* There are more than 40,000 unique items for players to discover,
create or buy within the game. More than 3,000 of these items have
never been discovered by players.

* There are almost 100,000 trees within the world of EverQuest.

* More than 1500 servers run the world of EverQuest, which is the
equivalency of one of the world's top 100 supercomputers. More than
18 miles of wire and cable connect all these boxes together.

* Over 10 quadrillion bytes of EverQuest data have left the SOE network
in the past five years. That's a ten, followed by 15 zeroes.

EverQuest allows players to create their own specialized characters by
selecting from multiple races and classes, skills, physical appearances and
names. With hundreds of perilous zones to discover and 7 enormous continents,
the moon of Luclin and the extra-dimensional Planes of Power to explore, the
fantasy world of Norrath allows players to embark on exciting journeys.

About EverQuest
Developed and published by Sony Online Entertainment Inc. (SOE), EverQuest
launched in 1999 and has since become both a gaming and cultural phenomenon.
The game has sold more than 2 million copies while continuing to grow with
award-winning expansions The Ruins of Kunark(R), The Scars of Velious(R), The
Shadows of Luclin(TM), The Planes of Power(TM), The Legacy of Ykesha(TM), Lost
Dungeons of Norrath(TM) and Gates of Discord(TM), making it the largest online
3D fantasy world ever created. During peak periods, more than
118,000 simultaneous adventurers have explored the fully detailed world of
Norrath, filled with monsters, magic, adventure and more. The active global
EverQuest subscriber base of more than 420,000 players is comprised of people
from 40 different countries. Sony Online is committed to bringing EverQuest
to various entertainment platforms, releasing titles such as EverQuest Online
Adventures for the PlayStation(R)2 computer entertainment system, EverQuest
for the Pocket PC and EverQuest: Hero's Call for wireless phones. In 2004,
SOE plans to launch the highly-anticipated EverQuest II on PCs around the
globe.

So basically you are blaming Blizzard for what other companies are doing.

Originally posted by altairzq

So basically you are blaming Blizzard for what other companies are doing.

Sounds like you fail to see the logic in this just like I do.  Seems likely that the same people that, perhaps, have trouble being accountable for their OWN actions, also would like to start foisting that lack of accountability off to others for other people and companies as well.

If a developer makes a choice to do things in a certain way....they are accountable for their OWN choices. The "blame" does not fall to someone else for actions that you, yourself, take. This goes for businesses too.

There seems to be a growing EPIDEMIC (in the U.S., at least) to shirk any and all accountability for ones own choices and actions. The first thing you do when you make a mistake or even intentionally foul something up....BLAME SOMEONE ELSE. So now, it would seem, we're pushing that off on corporate America too?  What a crock of bullshit.

NO ONE is responsible for YOUR ACTIONS....but YOU. This applies to individuals and corporate boards, and even game designers and devs. If your company makes a choice to do things in a certain way....guess what?  That is YOUR company's fault if it ends up being a bad choice. Likewise, if it ends up being a GOOD choice...yours is the glory....not Joe Blow Company B down the street's fault NOR fame.

Good grief...this is "growing up into adulthood 101." Hello?? How is this simple principle lost on so many people??  I don't get it.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by iZakaroN

WoW is great game but its a terrible as a MMO.

Massive single player + Multiplayer is not equal to a Massive Multiplayer.

So for me WoW give the world a wrong impression for MMO genre at all and even worst most mmos try to copy that schema that ruin MMO genre in general.

 

Correct that after patch 3.3 now to:

Massive single player + Massive Multiplayer 24/7 ... with YOUR agenda settings ...  and I wonder why you would complain.

As usual Blizzard was faster than the critical player's thoughts.

Add the CAT  realm guild leveling both in PVE and in PVP (even competition wise ... you need to do PvP combat with 75% of guildies to become rated).

So ... Blizzard shoots faster than we can type... the comments these days.

Exactly WHO are the designers and WHO are the amateurs ?

LOL....ironic, isn't it?

I think UO stands out as the most innovative for bringing MMO's to the internet. Everquest and DAoC are next with carrying MMO's the the next level. WoW stands alone as the most innovative MMO to capture the worlds attention to play this game. Everything beyond WoW tries to be unique to WoW, but ends up similar. I find games such as Aion while beautiful in design, are so grindy, the game becomes boring within a matter of weeks, despite the beauty of it.  Unitl something truely unique comes along, I see people trying out the new games, but ending up coming back to WoW or just not playing any more.

Originally posted by drel

I think UO stands out as the most innovative for bringing MMO's to the internet. Everquest and DAoC are next with carrying MMO's the the next level. WoW stands alone as the most innovative MMO to capture the worlds attention to play this game. Everything beyond WoW tries to be unique to WoW, but ends up similar. I find games such as Aion while beautiful in design, are so grindy, the game becomes boring within a matter of weeks, despite the beauty of it.  Unitl something truely unique comes along, I see people trying out the new games, but ending up coming back to WoW or just not playing any more.

I would put AOL's nwn and TSN's The Shadow of Yserbius ahead of UO by a long shot.