I think some one mentioned this earlyer. The MMO market is stagnant because of its player base. Can you, us, and I coin the term loosely 'old school' players, remember the amount of hate and racism and elitism we have now days in MMOs? I remember real community, real social intereaction and a feeling of comradship within guilds. Again I will quote some one on this post, nowdays to mention MMO people will instantly know what it meens. MMO's have grown and so has it's playerbase, increaseing profit and expectations.

So why are current MMO's failing? Stagnant, satuarated market with little to no inovation. Even so, less people are willing to devote a large amount of time to any given game currently. We have seen it, played it, looted it all before and nothing is new.

Perhaps we demand to much from our games? Or perhaps we, as people are degrading in social intereaction, to be reduced to slander and belittling at any chance to increase or inflate our little, virtual ego.

Its a dark thought and outlook lol But one I hold becasue of how I see people interact with others online.

It is our fault.

Originally posted by KillerEwok

DON'T BE A PUNK OF THE SYSTEEEEEMMMMMMMMM

 

THROW IT ON THE GROOOOOUUUUUNNNDDDDDD

Happy Birthday To the GROUND!

I Threw the Rest of the Cake, Too!

Originally posted by spyboy2000

Stop destroying this genre.

Your killing me, your killing us.

Real gamers are becoming extinct because of these mega companies with the suits dictating how a game should be made.

2020, real gamers become extinct.

Like cold lemonade, we both got stomach aches.

 

Games companies like Blizzard are good for the genre and attract a lot of people. They might not take the genre the direction you and I would like, but that does not make those 10 million players any less of a gamer. Thinking so is just retarted and slightly elitist.

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by spyboy2000

Stop destroying this genre.

Your killing me, your killing us.

Real gamers are becoming extinct because of these mega companies with the suits dictating how a game should be made.

2020, real gamers become extinct.

Like cold lemonade, we both got stomach aches.

 

Games companies like Blizzard are good for the genre and attract a lot of people. They might not take the genre the direction you and I would like, but that does not make those 10 million players any less of a gamer. Thinking so is just retarted and slightly elitist.

i joined three days before you!! so i am eliterererest. yeah...

Disclaimer: this is a joke (and its sad that i actually do have to put that)

"Originally posted by Antipopealan

i'm getting real fed up with all these types of threads on here.

why blame the companies? it's the consumers who dictate what companies produce.it's the consumers/gamers who buy these games and supports them. it's the gamers who buy gold and powerleveling services. it's the gamers who are responsible for the shitty online communities and constant trolling."

---

Originally posted by Luneth7
Learn the art of dying and you will be liberated from It.

Many of us are going to die while the genre is dying.

I'm dying and there's no good MMORPG's. But you know what...that's okay...because I accept dying.

---

Even if you take an EXP penalty for it?

Originally posted by jayheld90 

i joined three days before you!! so i am eliterererest. yeah...

 

Disclaimer: this is a joke (and its sad that i actually do have to put that)

Clearly I have more stars then you! Anyhow shamefully some people do really think like this. Folks who played UO (Some though), who think they have the sole power to decide how the MMO market should be running. Newsflash to those poeple: It are the programmers back then who are ruining the market right now. Garriott (Ultima Online series), Smedley (Orginal everquest), etc. So yes, being a veteran does not directly mean your ideas are any better. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Deien

Yes let us remember every game that comes out now is thanks to WoW.... Go shot yourself if you believe this to be true.

 

They are not killing anything what is killing it is people who want to solo and get everything just like a solo rpg game. The people who speak out the most are getting what they want.

 

Even for this Blizzard has an answer now:

http://www.wow.com/2009/10/29/patch-3-3-just-run-as-many-heroics-as-you-want/

24/7 group based PVE content without waiting times with a possible 80.000 people on line (with the same structure of the clustered BG servers).

"You ain't seen nothin" yet" I think is the expression.

I said it already in another post, but as a WOW fan I am starting to be afraid of Blizzard. Apparently they took the time of who plays what and when with the data on their servers.

Juggernaut. And it is killing everything in front of its feet.... as you wil be killed with... polish.

 

Blizzard has made an excellent game, now i am looking for an excellent world.

Old style instant satisfaction: Insert quarter, get a cookie.

New style instant satisfaction: Play easy game, in less than 3 months become "Mega-powerful Uber-DarkLord Ruler of the Universe with Mega-Leet Epic Weapons and Pwnage".

~sigh~

Ken

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Deien

Yes let us remember every game that comes out now is thanks to WoW.... Go shot yourself if you believe this to be true.

 

They are not killing anything what is killing it is people who want to solo and get everything just like a solo rpg game. The people who speak out the most are getting what they want.

 

Even for this Blizzard has an answer now:

http://www.wow.com/2009/10/29/patch-3-3-just-run-as-many-heroics-as-you-want/

24/7 group based PVE content without waiting times with a possible 80.000 people on line (with the same structure of the clustered BG servers).

"You ain't seen nothin" yet" I think is the expression.

I said it already in another post, but as a WOW fan I am starting to be afraid of Blizzard. Apparently they took the time of who plays what and when with the data on their servers.

Juggernaut. And it is killing everything in front of its feet.... as you wil be killed with... polish.

 

As an avid grouper I'm going to have to disagree here.  A lobby is in my opinion not the perfect answer... in fact I think of it as a step back when you consider a great element of grouping is supposed to be the building of community.

Here FFXI did the right thing by encouraging grouping, it was still difficult for many classes (including most of the ones I played) to always get a group in a reasonable amount of time during certain periods (I played before level sync) but what grouping in that game did was to build a community.  You would meet new people through grouping, but it would strengthen your ties to the community in the process since you would likely run into them again in the future.

With this new Lobby system Blizzard is simply making it like the types of lobbies you see in FPS games etc., where unless you specifically look for someone they are lost in a giant pool of anonymous people.  There is not the same rapport or reputation  you get when you group within a community when you connect to an instance via a lobby. 

Can you then go hang out with these people afterwards?  No. 

Can you invite them to join your guild if you hit it off?  No.

Can you even look for them to join up again if you had a good experience?  Not really unless they happen to be queued at the same time. whereas in the case of in game community grouping like FFXI you can search for them anytime you want fairly easily to see if they are interested.

So it like all of WoW doesn't really impress me, personally I'll be waiting to see how FFXIV handles groupings problems and strengths as FFXI in my opinion offered the best community/grouping of any MMO I have played since.

---

Originally posted by spyboy2000

---

Originally posted by Pcgamer81

can't figure out if this is troll post or if he is serious. SOE made true hardcore gamers in 1999 with everquest. if you don't like the modern online game 1997-current then go qq on gamefaqs.com

---

 
Original EQ up to LDoN was a great game in my opinion. Champions of Norrath was also a fun and great game from them.

But SOE today is RMT, Cashshop, and poor games.

---

Simply Put SOE sux so as far as I am concerned you are preaching to the Choir.

When the Old Ones return the blood of the Blizzard clone players will run like water and we shall feed them to Y'golonac.

Soon the  The Sleeper of N'kai shall awaken!

The children of the world  will sit in the lap of Othuyeg and play real MMORPGs once more!

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

When the Old Ones return the blood of the Blizzard clone players will run like water and we shall feed them to Y'golonac.

Soon the  The Sleeper of N'kai shall awaken!

The children of the world  will sit in the lap of Othuyeg and play real MMORPGs once more!

 

.........

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Deien

Yes let us remember every game that comes out now is thanks to WoW.... Go shot yourself if you believe this to be true.

 

They are not killing anything what is killing it is people who want to solo and get everything just like a solo rpg game. The people who speak out the most are getting what they want.

 

Even for this Blizzard has an answer now:

http://www.wow.com/2009/10/29/patch-3-3-just-run-as-many-heroics-as-you-want/

24/7 group based PVE content without waiting times with a possible 80.000 people on line (with the same structure of the clustered BG servers).

"You ain't seen nothin" yet" I think is the expression.

I said it already in another post, but as a WOW fan I am starting to be afraid of Blizzard. Apparently they took the time of who plays what and when with the data on their servers.

Juggernaut. And it is killing everything in front of its feet.... as you wil be killed with... polish.

 

 

As an avid grouper I'm going to have to disagree here.  A lobby is in my opinion not the perfect answer... in fact I think of it as a step back when you consider a great element of grouping is supposed to be the building of community.

 

Here FFXI did the right thing by encouraging grouping, it was still difficult for many classes (including most of the ones I played) to always get a group in a reasonable amount of time during certain periods (I played before level sync) but what grouping in that game did was to build a community.  You would meet new people through grouping, but it would strengthen your ties to the community in the process since you would likely run into them again in the future.

 

With this new Lobby system Blizzard is simply making it like the types of lobbies you see in FPS games etc., where unless you specifically look for someone they are lost in a giant pool of anonymous people.  There is not the same rapport or reputation  you get when you group within a community when you connect to an instance via a lobby. 

 

Can you then go hang out with these people afterwards?  No. 

 

Can you invite them to join your guild if you hit it off?  No.

 

Can you even look for them to join up again if you had a good experience?  Not really unless they happen to be queued at the same time. whereas in the case of in game community grouping like FFXI you can search for them anytime you want fairly easily to see if they are interested.

 

So it like all of WoW doesn't really impress me, personally I'll be waiting to see how FFXIV handles groupings problems and strengths as FFXI in my opinion offered the best community/grouping of any MMO I have played since.

I actually think the Blizzard "lobby" system you so hate is a great idea and way to progress server-based mmo. It basically makes it possible to PuG any instanced dungeon or raid on any server. That is actually quite a liberating concept for players, you are not forced into joining a large guild, you can play the game solo or in a small guild and still do all the 25 raid content. The problem is, though, that implementing this into a game at such a late stage after an expansion is crazy. It would have been brilliant at the start of WotLK especially as the opening raid dungeon is so easy, but now it looks like Blizzard are mainly preparing for their Cataclysm expansion, where they re-work all their old zones and add a few new ones. For me that also means I am glad not to currently play the game, but might hapily return to a re-vamped world where I can PuG anything I want in a few months time; I am playing EQ2 at the moment, I like PvE with a lot of questing.

I also do not understand your argument that you cannot guild with players in the x-server PuG system if you want to. It is so easy to x-fer in WoW now that it seems to me all too easy to form guilds by taking a core of players and then  picking up new guys who fit the guild mold best. I guess in a way it is almost a shardless mmorpg now, it is a progressive direction, especially given that WoW is an ageing game.

I am uncertain of how FFXIV will work out precisely with regards mmo grouping until its release. I think it could be a treat, though, and along with SWTOR it is a game on my list of must-try.

Real gamer is anyone that plays...

Originally posted by spyboy2000

Stop destroying this genre.

Your killing me, your killing us.

Real gamers are becoming extinct because of these mega companies with the suits dictating how a game should be made.

2020, real gamers become extinct.

Like cold lemonade, we both got stomach aches.

 

You do realize that those 3 companies have absolutely no say in what other companies do right? If you want to whine, then complain how all those other companies are screwing up. The fact of the matter is that Blizzard, Sony, and NCSoft made the MMO genre more mainstream. They opened the door for other companies to come in and try to make an MMO. Yes, alot of them are pure crap, but many of them are not. Spend more time finding the game you want to play and less time whining like a little kid with a skinned knee.

For example: I'm old school. I still play tabletop RPG's. Wizards of the Coast completely and utterly screwed up DnD with 4th edition. Did I whine? Hell no. I searched around and found Paizo. I'm now playing Pathfinder (Dnd 3.7 basically) and am enjoying it.

the community is what we make of it. the power to create a community is in your hands. you can go play a game with the worst community, but i assure you that even in that game there are great people. y ou just have to find them and work hard to get them all in your guild. of course that would be too much work and bitching on forums is easier.

I think there are merits in both sandbox and themepark mmos, and just because themepark is more successful financially doesnt mean blizzard is evil. I too wish there was a mmo out there that wasnt quest driven. I too wish a company would make a world first, game second. im sure we'll see one soon enough.

games are not life's end game. games are a pass time. nothing more. and in that light, comparing WoW to mcdonalds, like i see so many times, is stupid. all a game has to do is to be fun. is it fun? it was fun for me for quite a long time, just like plenty of other games. we move through games all the time. there will never be The One game to rule them all. games come and go, and so do the people that bitch about them. In the meantime, my suggestion is, go live your life, go outside and bathe in the sun, your next mmorpg is just around the corner. it wont be your last, so dont illude yourself though.

Originally posted by Toquio3

the community is what we make of it. the power to create a community is in your hands. you can go play a game with the worst community, but i assure you that even in that game there are great people. y ou just have to find them and work hard to get them all in your guild. of course that would be too much work and bitching on forums is easier.

I think there are merits in both sandbox and themepark mmos, and just because themepark is more successful financially doesnt mean blizzard is evil. I too wish there was a mmo out there that wasnt quest driven. I too wish a company would make a world first, game second. im sure we'll see one soon enough.

games are not life's end game. games are a pass time. nothing more. and in that light, comparing WoW to mcdonalds, like i see so many times, is stupid. all a game has to do is to be fun. is it fun? it was fun for me for quite a long time, just like plenty of other games. we move through games all the time. there will never be The One game to rule them all. games come and go, and so do the people that bitch about them. In the meantime, my suggestion is, go live your life, go outside and bathe in the sun, your next mmorpg is just around the corner. it wont be your last, so dont illude yourself though.

I do not see games as just a distraction or pass time, I see them as art.  Art which used to be painted by artists, but are now manufactured by corporate machines.

Good games are still out there, but you have to dig pretty deep.

Originally posted by heremypet

I do not see games as just a distraction or pass time, I see them as art.  Art which used to be painted by artists, but are now manufactured by corporate machines.

 

This ^

But not only that, but they are also incredible fantasy worlds filled with adventure and magic. And MMORPG's are so special because they give this foundation of a fantasy world that can them have this incredible magic of life through all the players in the game that create a community and interesting dramas.

Just because someone calls it art does not make it good.

Originally posted by spyboy2000

Originally posted by heremypet

I do not see games as just a distraction or pass time, I see them as art.  Art which used to be painted by artists, but are now manufactured by corporate machines.

 

 

This ^

But not only that, but they are also incredible fantasy worlds filled with adventure and magic. And MMORPG's are so special because they give this foundation of a fantasy world that can them have this incredible magic of life through all the players in the game that create a community and interesting dramas.

I agree with both of you.

And yes MMORPG's are very special because  player interactivty adds this other layer of dimension and dynamics to the game.
 

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

When the Old Ones return the blood of the Blizzard clone players will run like water and we shall feed them to Y'golonac.

Soon the  The Sleeper of N'kai shall awaken!

The children of the world  will sit in the lap of Othuyeg and play real MMORPGs once more!

 

Hehe. Thanks for the laugh.
 

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by Toquio3

the community is what we make of it. the power to create a community is in your hands. you can go play a game with the worst community, but i assure you that even in that game there are great people. y ou just have to find them and work hard to get them all in your guild. of course that would be too much work and bitching on forums is easier.

I think there are merits in both sandbox and themepark mmos, and just because themepark is more successful financially doesnt mean blizzard is evil. I too wish there was a mmo out there that wasnt quest driven. I too wish a company would make a world first, game second. im sure we'll see one soon enough.

games are not life's end game. games are a pass time. nothing more. and in that light, comparing WoW to mcdonalds, like i see so many times, is stupid. all a game has to do is to be fun. is it fun? it was fun for me for quite a long time, just like plenty of other games. we move through games all the time. there will never be The One game to rule them all. games come and go, and so do the people that bitch about them. In the meantime, my suggestion is, go live your life, go outside and bathe in the sun, your next mmorpg is just around the corner. it wont be your last, so dont illude yourself though.

I do not see games as just a distraction or pass time, I see them as art.  Art which used to be painted by artists, but are now manufactured by corporate machines.

Good games are still out there, but you have to dig pretty deep.

meh, keep in mind all types of art had their patrons and in many cases the artists worked directly for their patrons.

Of course there are artists who just worked for themselves and some of them even sold works, but there are so many artists who fell into obscurity and quit because there was no money to be made.

Sure, people say "well then good, I'm sure they would rather work in obscurity then to have catered to someone else" but most of the artists, composer and actors I know tend to adopt a more realistic attitude around the time they realize they are much older and are tired of living like a college kid and scraping by.

As far as commercial arts, money was always part of the equation. I say commercial as things like folk art are about something else completely different.

 Only instead of some duke having his court composer compose something for his event the public can now enjoy some of the arts as well. Whether they are paintings, plays or video games.