Iv noticed every single MMO requires you to spend months doing boring as hell quests and farming monsters and then you "level up" and your powers get stronger. All the games do is reward you for spending hours doing pointless crap. So yea to the point are their any mmos where they dont make you grind for months to lvl up or just a game without lvls in general? I mean where a lvl 1 can kill (not easy) a say lvl 20 using player skill. Not miss every attack you throw at the lvl 20 just because he is lvl 20. (talking about WoW here)

Also something that gets kinda hard as you lvl up. It seems most MMOs difficulty levels stay exactly the same from level 1-1000. Thats one of the few things i loved about runescape til they took it all out. You could walk into a dungeon, try and jump a pool of water, fail, and have your torch go out, have the screen go pitch black besides your bag and if you dont have a match or anything you start getting attacked by monsters in the dark. Stuff like that just is not around anymore. Also whats with dungeons in general. pull the mob, kill it, pull the mob that just watched the last mob get killed by you, kill them, and continue on your way. A puzzle or something or just some smart mobs would be nice to see.

I played EvE and liked the idea behind it but the hole spaceship thing does not do it for me. I dont mind space games just dont want to be in a spaceship 24/7.

I loved planetside but its a FPS (not that theirs anything wrong with that) and its almost dead :(. Played Darkfail and its one of the worst iv ever played no skill in that at all.  Played runescape loved the quests and difficulty. Hated the grind. Played Arcanists and liked it but not an MMO. Played WAR and hated everything about it. Just a wow clone with improved graphics and fail pvp system.

Played fallen earth and loved having to aim to attack but major turn off is that melee does same damage as shooting someone with a sniper, also quests put me to sleep and in general it had no real difficulty in PvE just aim and click, was hopeing to have to target a special spot on a boss monster or anything like that to kill it, but all you do is spam mouse buttons at it.

Any suggestions?

(sorry for the text wall)

there are none.  All games take skill to a certain to degree. 

Guild Wars is really the only one that comes to mind. If you consider it an MMO...

The game consists of well-designed story-driven quests and it does not take long at all to reach the max level. Once there, you will have many skills at your disposal and the game is all about picking the best spec for the situation.

If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend it.

I have to agree, after viewing your complaints and what you loved the most (Planetside) I'm thinking you are in the wrong genre. 

People play MMO's specifically for the grind, or at least to over come the grind and reach the top of the mountain.  They work to advance their characters and finances, with the hoped of gaining an edge in the endgame (or even on the journey upwards)

You really want something like 2nd life, or a FPS where there is no leveling, you just "exist' in the world and get busy.

I play EVE because its "grind" is palatable to me vs some other games.  But its a grind none the less and one I'm willing to do.

I think in guild wars you can start out as a max level character for PvP.  That's about all I can think of at the moment...

OP, there are none.  Go back to console games.  MMORPGs by their very nature have either skill grinding or level grinding or some other form of grinding built in.  It's what keeps you paying your $15 a month so they can stay in business.

Originally posted by Anubisan

Guild Wars is really the only one that comes to mind. If you consider it an MMO...

The game consists of well-designed story-driven quests and it does not take long at all to reach the max level. Once there, you will have many skills at your disposal and the game is all about picking the best spec for the situation.

If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend it.

Thanks i tried that but i would not call that an mmo since your always with just your small group and its 90% instance based. I did like the game but got tired of it fast. Its like your standard console rpg but with a mmo style for towns.

Originally posted by Shannia

OP, there are none.  Go back to console games.  MMORPGs by their very nature have either skill grinding or level grinding or some other form of grinding built in.  It's what keeps you paying your $15 a month so they can stay in business.

Was just checking. I prob will go back to console games now that i know their are none.

Originally posted by H2liveshot

Iv noticed every single MMO requires you to spend months doing boring as hell quests and farming monsters and then you "level up" and your powers get stronger. All the games do is reward you for spending hours doing pointless crap. So yea to the point are their any mmos where they dont make you grind for months to lvl up or just a game without lvls in general? I mean where a lvl 1 can kill (not easy) a say lvl 20 using player skill. Not miss every attack you throw at the lvl 20 just because he is lvl 20. (talking about WoW here)

Also something that gets kinda hard as you lvl up. It seems most MMOs difficulty levels stay exactly the same from level 1-1000. Thats one of the few things i loved about runescape til they took it all out. You could walk into a dungeon, try and jump a pool of water, fail, and have your torch go out, have the screen go pitch black besides your bag and if you dont have a match or anything you start getting attacked by monsters in the dark. Stuff like that just is not around anymore. Also whats with dungeons in general. pull the mob, kill it, pull the mob that just watched the last mob get killed by you, kill them, and continue on your way. A puzzle or something or just some smart mobs would be nice to see.

I played EvE and liked the idea behind it but the hole spaceship thing does not do it for me. I dont mind space games just dont want to be in a spaceship 24/7.

I loved planetside but its a FPS (not that theirs anything wrong with that) and its almost dead :(. Played Darkfail and its one of the worst iv ever played no skill in that at all.  Played runescape loved the quests and difficulty. Hated the grind. Played Arcanists and liked it but not an MMO. Played WAR and hated everything about it. Just a wow clone with improved graphics and fail pvp system.

Played fallen earth and loved having to aim to attack but major turn off is that melee does same damage as shooting someone with a sniper, also quests put me to sleep and in general it had no real difficulty in PvE just aim and click, was hopeing to have to target a special spot on a boss monster or anything like that to kill it, but all you do is spam mouse buttons at it.

Any suggestions?

(sorry for the text wall)

What you are asking for is found in the FPS and RTS genres, not MMO's.
 

MMO's by definition involve building your characters over time, which is what you are asking to avoid.

As far as Fallen Earth's melee doing the same damage as a sniper...how is this a bad thing?

It's balance.

The main factor is distance...it's brilliant!

Also, I don't think you'll find too many MMOs where a level 1 can kill a level 20.

They are level 20 because they have spent considerably more time and energy into building their character, and they SHOULDN'T be killed by a level 1.

It sounds like maybe you should seriously stick to single-player games.

By dismissing a lot of these games as you have in your post, it seems you have barely scratched the surface of many of them and just get bored with them easily.

You're looking for an MMO where you don't have to do anything and are able to go around 1-shotting people.

It doesn't exist, and it shouldn't exist.

 I vote APB (All Points Bulliten) Being released spring of 2010 =)

Originally posted by Banhammer16

 I vote APB (All Points Bulliten) Being released spring of 2010 =)

Still involves building your characte over time, something the OP does not want.

I can't wait for A.P.B. on my 360!

 All I can really think of is a fully PvP game with PvE only implemented to serve as training for PvP, such as there would be little or only combat dummies (Roma Victor...).

You're not going to find a grindless PvE game, but there are games such as Pernica and a few others where a level 1 is relatively close to a level 200 in power and other games where they've adopted a player's skill-based system, such that all equipment is equal through different advantages and anyone can own if they're any good at the game.

Try World War II Online. It’s undergoing a major graphic upgrade soon. Very light on the RPG elements, it feels more like a very large FPS then a MMO.

DDO might have a lot of the puzzle and smarter mobs you are looking for but is very quest oriented.
 

Originally posted by H2liveshot

Iv noticed every single MMO requires you to spend months doing boring as hell quests and farming monsters and then you "level up" and your powers get stronger. All the games do is reward you for spending hours doing pointless crap. So yea to the point are their any mmos where they dont make you grind for months to lvl up or just a game without lvls in general? I mean where a lvl 1 can kill (not easy) a say lvl 20 using player skill. Not miss every attack you throw at the lvl 20 just because he is lvl 20. (talking about WoW here)

Also something that gets kinda hard as you lvl up. It seems most MMOs difficulty levels stay exactly the same from level 1-1000. Thats one of the few things i loved about runescape til they took it all out. You could walk into a dungeon, try and jump a pool of water, fail, and have your torch go out, have the screen go pitch black besides your bag and if you dont have a match or anything you start getting attacked by monsters in the dark. Stuff like that just is not around anymore. Also whats with dungeons in general. pull the mob, kill it, pull the mob that just watched the last mob get killed by you, kill them, and continue on your way. A puzzle or something or just some smart mobs would be nice to see.

I played EvE and liked the idea behind it but the hole spaceship thing does not do it for me. I dont mind space games just dont want to be in a spaceship 24/7.

I loved planetside but its a FPS (not that theirs anything wrong with that) and its almost dead :(. Played Darkfail and its one of the worst iv ever played no skill in that at all.  Played runescape loved the quests and difficulty. Hated the grind. Played Arcanists and liked it but not an MMO. Played WAR and hated everything about it. Just a wow clone with improved graphics and fail pvp system.

Played fallen earth and loved having to aim to attack but major turn off is that melee does same damage as shooting someone with a sniper, also quests put me to sleep and in general it had no real difficulty in PvE just aim and click, was hopeing to have to target a special spot on a boss monster or anything like that to kill it, but all you do is spam mouse buttons at it.

Any suggestions?

(sorry for the text wall)

Club Penguin...lol

for the OP

If you have skill in the game you can level without grinding.

Global Agenda looks to be about the closest thing you have on the horizon.  Other than that, MMO=grind.  Just depends on how much fun the grind is.

Originally posted by Anubisan

Guild Wars is really the only one that comes to mind. If you consider it an MMO...

The game consists of well-designed story-driven quests and it does not take long at all to reach the max level. Once there, you will have many skills at your disposal and the game is all about picking the best spec for the situation.

If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend it.

^^

THIS

I'm fairly certain you're not looking for an MMO at all.  Your best bet is to stick to 1 player games and FPS's.

You wont find your game in the MMO genre.  If you want a game like  that then load up an  online game (Battlefield, Team Fortress, Company of heroes...ect)

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Originally posted by Banhammer16

 I vote APB (All Points Bulliten) Being released spring of 2010 =)

 

Still involves building your characte over time, something the OP does not want.

The OP is not asking for that at all (granted he was less than eloquent in the asking of the question). He wants meaningful progression, and a general level of difficulty to the game. He says "It seems most MMOs difficulty levels stay exactly the same from level 1-1000". And he's more or less right. In most games each level range your overall statistics raise a certain % and the enemies over all statistics raise a certain %. Its almost as if throughout the whole game you are doing the exact same thing, just with the numbers getting more and more inflated. A "Level 20" should have the advantage over the "lower level" in his expertise and what he's found and learned in his adventures, whether they be neat skills or powerful spells, stronger equipment, or development of innate resistance to things such as Cold.

And here, "I mean where a lvl 1 can kill (not easy) a say lvl 20 using player skill. Not miss every attack you throw at the lvl 20 just because he is lvl 20. (talking about WoW here)", he is talking about a removal of artificial boundaries/limitations.

I disagree with the general statement that MMOs are about the level grind. MMOs were about the adventure, the sculpting of virtual worlds, and interactions with fellow players. Granted, modern day MMOs follow a very formulaic WoW approach, but I feel that in time we will start to see a return to the virtual world approach.

To answer your question OP, you may not find what you're looking for yet. I believe Mortal Online is trying to offer an experience similar to what you are looking for. You may also look into the Secret World, Funcom's in development title, which claims no levels and complete customization.

 I'd also look into Face of Mankind...it's kinda sad the player base has been as small as it has because it's what a lot of people are looking for...

Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Originally posted by Banhammer16

 I vote APB (All Points Bulliten) Being released spring of 2010 =)

 

Still involves building your characte over time, something the OP does not want.

The OP is not asking for that at all (granted he was less than eloquent in the asking of the question). He wants meaningful progression, and a general level of difficulty to the game. He says "It seems most MMOs difficulty levels stay exactly the same from level 1-1000". And he's more or less right. In most games each level range your overall statistics raise a certain % and the enemies over all statistics raise a certain %. Its almost as if throughout the whole game you are doing the exact same thing, just with the numbers getting more and more inflated. A "Level 20" should have the advantage over the "lower level" in his expertise and what he's found and learned in his adventures, whether they be neat skills or powerful spells, stronger equipment, or development of innate resistance to things such as Cold.

And here, "I mean where a lvl 1 can kill (not easy) a say lvl 20 using player skill. Not miss every attack you throw at the lvl 20 just because he is lvl 20. (talking about WoW here)", he is talking about a removal of artificial boundaries/limitations.

 

I disagree with the general statement that MMOs are about the level grind. MMOs were about the adventure, the sculpting of virtual worlds, and interactions with fellow players. Granted, modern day MMOs follow a very formulaic WoW approach, but I feel that in time we will start to see a return to the virtual world approach.

To answer your question OP, you may not find what you're looking for yet. I believe Mortal Online is trying to offer an experience similar to what you are looking for. You may also look into the Secret World, Funcom's in development title, which claims no levels and complete customization.

This is exactly what i have been trying to say. Your a master wordsmith. I wish I could have posted this over what I started with. Thanks so much Mortal Online does look like what I am looking for.

---

Originally posted by Anubisan
Guild Wars is really the only one that comes to mind. If you consider it an MMO...
The game consists of well-designed story-driven quests and it does not take long at all to reach the max level. Once there, you will have many skills at your disposal and the game is all about picking the best spec for the situation.
If you haven't tried it yet, I would highly recommend it.

---

Sadly Shadowbane fit the bill perfectly, you could hit level cap in a day, easy enough with just a few guildies helping. After that it was all skill based pvp end game content, it's just too bad Ubisoft shut it down.

I would say GW but you are exchanging a grind from PvE or PvP either way.

I read the first paragraph of your post and didn't feel like reading the rest, but I want to point out something to you and to everyone who says they want to be able to kill a lvl 20 with lvl 1...

MMORPG stands for massive multiplayer online role playing game, so basically, you are role playing a character, your character starts at lvl 1. The point of levels is that at lvl 1, your character have no skills, they are untrained newbies, a lvl 20 is a trained and experienced soldier. There would be no logic whatsoever that someone who knows nothing about warefare can take on an experienced soldier face to face.

I would agree that if you were level 15 and you fight a lvl 20, then yeah the player skill should count for something and in most games they do. But come on, if you don't like the concept of making a nobody and training him or her to become veterans, than you should just go play some action games instead. That is the point of playing an mmorpg, leveling your character so that they can be on par with someone or something around their level or even better.